Broken.

[Deewe]

BioWare/EA knows they totally messed up this game and now they are not even in damage control but in a milk players mode. Their numbers show them some people are willing to pay hundreds of dollars per month for reskins or slight changes to existing meshes. Tasks that takes, at worst, a coupe of hours for an unskilled artist and doesn't even needs QA.

 

Then take into consideration that another open world SW game is in development within EA studios.

 

So what do you really expect?

Time to open your eyes.

 

Enjoy the game as is or leave.

Anything else is delusional.

[LordArtemis]

This particular set of issues is complicated IMO. It remains unclear if this really is "as intended", especially given the large change visible in drops rates within a set and the 4-5X change in Collections prices for the pack contents. It reads much more like ---> holy @#%^... we released a big pile of broken here"... with no way to fix it except to embargo the pack on 2.8.1 and announce it as "intended by design". That position is a bit dishonest IMO but it gives the devs an "out" on the issues..... marketing cover essentially for a design mistake. But I Feel bad for Eric having to be the one that communicates this to us because IMO it is Erics credibility and trust with players that will take the hit here.

 

Like all crazy things in MMOs... this one too shall pass once the dust settles and players move on to their next issue.

 

But hey... look at the bright side.... we went a week of discussion about these two issues without anybody declaring any faces slapped.

 

Yea, I tend to think this was not a complete "intended" as indicated, though perhaps they did intend to experiment a bit. I think they changed a few things and screwed up some things as a result.

 

Perhaps they wanted to make some of the more popular parts of appearance armor more rare to give them more value, and the collection price was raised as a consequence. Yes, they say they are separate, and perhaps they are, but that does not mean someone did not look at the value of the chest sets and input the wrong value.

 

I think this was more of a combination of "whoops" based on some intent, perhaps some bad ideas.

 

Messing with CM prices in that way...yes, I say that is a VERY bad idea PR wise, and I think a good portion of players have made that quite clear.

 

What I would say to those folks that feel burned...though I can sympathize with your views and feel you have a valid issue I would ask that you allow Bioware to correct their behavior. If it does not change or happens again....that would be the time to act IMO.

[DarthTHC]

I must have hit my head pretty hard. I see Andrayh criticizing the game and TUX offering defense. I need to lie down because right now I'm in topsy turvy town.

 

Andrayah isn't criticizing the game. She's criticizing developers' behavior.

[LordArtemis]

If I could offer some advice to Bioware with respect to this.....

 

..........Dont do that.

 

All jokes aside, give some warning next time when you make a change like this. This type of surprise can certainly cause some justifiable frustration in the base IMO.

[Undying-Rage]

Point or no point I made it clear in my post that I wanted it to be civil and polite and he couldn't do that?

 

@ I apologize Joe, It slipped past my watching of thread trying to keep up with everyone. I'll PM Oddball about it since he and I are friends.

Like you and your little posse ever keep it civil and polite... Yeah, thanks for proving my point

 

I'm just going to step out of this thread now. The behavior of the defenders is comical yet it's so hard to look at.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Undying-Rage

[DawnAskham]

Yea, I tend to think this was not a complete "intended" as indicated, though perhaps they did intend to experiment a bit. I think they changed a few things and screwed up some things as a result.

 

Perhaps they wanted to make some of the more popular parts of appearance armor more rare to give them more value, and the collection price was raised as a consequence. Yes, they say they are separate, and perhaps they are, but that does not mean someone did not look at the value of the chest sets and input the wrong value.

 

I think this was more of a combination of "whoops" based on some intent, perhaps some bad ideas.

 

Messing with CM prices in that way...yes, I say that is a VERY bad idea PR wise, and I think a good portion of players have made that quite clear.

 

What I would say to those folks that feel burned...though I can sympathize with your views and feel you have a valid issue I would ask that you allow Bioware to correct their behavior. If it does not change or happens again....that would be the time to act IMO.

 

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

People should just quit being suckers and stopping feeding EA cash for digital junk while being treated like guinea pigs. Only by voting with ones wallet will they stop pulling such crap.

 

As long as there are people who buy pack after pack after pack with RL money with no regard to how poor EA treats them as customers or how little they invest in the actual game, EA isn't going to change their ways nor stop trying to milk their SW IP license.

Edited June 20, 2014 by DawnAskham

[Sangrar]

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

People should just quit being suckers and stopping feeding EA cash for digital junk while being treated like guinea pigs. Only by voting with ones wallet will they stop pulling such crap.

 

As long as there are people who buy pack after pack after pack with RL money with no regard to how poor EA treats them as customers or how little they invest in the actual game, EA isn't going to change their ways nor stop trying to milk their SW IP license.

 

I don't know about you but thanks to my refferal link and ny annual 550 bonus I am literally able to buy hypercrates without spending a cent.

[BuriDogshin]

People should just quit being suckers a ... while being treated like guinea pigs. .

It's a GAME. I don't mind being treated like a guinea pig in a GAME as the game evolves, and that includes as the market for cosmetic items evolves. Let them mess with it all they want -- it is their game, and they have more at stake in it than I do -- as long as I can still find a way to have fun, it is acceptable. But if I can't find a way to have fun, I will simply move on to something else.

 

I mean seriously, do people think this latest change in CM item drop rates and unlock prices came from some overpaid C-suite exec at EA? Hardly, I've worked with execs at that level in a multi-billion dollar company, and they don't know these kinds of details or want to. They are more likely to think the Cartel Market is a source of cocaine.

 

To me it seems more likely that a well-meaning game designer saw what they thought was a problem in the CM economics (like the overabundance of nearly worthless CM items, perhaps) and tried this change to fix it. We see this kind of adjustment all the time in the combat system (I still think they over-nerfed OS/FFB). Perhaps seeing an attempt to tune the CM, even a misguided one, just shows how important someone at BW thinks it is. Isn't that possible?

[Sangrar]

It's a GAME. I don't mind being treated like a guinea pig in a GAME as the game evolves, and that includes as the market for cosmetic items evolves. Let them mess with it all they want -- it is their game, and they have more at stake in it than I do -- as long as I can still find a way to have fun, it is acceptable. But if I can't find a way to have fun, I will simply move on to something else.

 

I mean seriously, do people think this latest change in CM item drop rates and unlock prices came from some overpaid C-suite exec at EA? Hardly, I've worked with execs at that level in a multi-billion dollar company, and they don't know these kinds of details or want to. They are more likely to think the Cartel Market is a source of cocaine.

 

To me it seems more likely that a well-meaning game designer saw what they thought was a problem in the CM economics (like the overabundance of nearly worthless CM items, perhaps) and tried this change to fix it. We see this kind of adjustment all the time in the combat system (I still think they over-nerfed OS/FFB). Perhaps seeing an attempt to tune the CM, even a misguided one, just shows how important someone at BW thinks it is. Isn't that possible?

 

I don't know about that, though the one good thing about this is knowing at least Musco and the dev team were honest, most people in marketing would have not even bothered to tell the community an answer like that that could mess with potential profits and instead just would have thought of some marketing bullcrap or ignored the question til it died. who else agrees?

[eartharioch]

To me it seems more likely that a well-meaning game designer saw what they thought was a problem in the CM economics (like the overabundance of nearly worthless CM items, perhaps) and tried this change to fix it. We see this kind of adjustment all the time in the combat system (I still think they over-nerfed OS/FFB). Perhaps seeing an attempt to tune the CM, even a misguided one, just shows how important someone at BW thinks it is. Isn't that possible?

 

So "well-meaning" means "mentally retarded" in your book? They *raised* the drop rate on the nearly worthless items (thus making them worth even less) relative to that of the valuable items, increasing their cost. *AND*, to add injury to injury, they increased the CC cost to unlock the items once you finally manage to acquire them all (which is now harder, since the valuable items were the gatekeepers). Nobody competent does that "accidentally" but "with good intentions".

 

FYI, to be clear, I'm not saying that the developers are mentally retarded, I'm saying that the change wasn't meant to be beneficial to the customers. I think BW knew exactly what it was doing, and why.

 

And, FYI, I'm not outraged that they are trying to squeeze more money (I don't spend more than my monthly "bonus" CCs, and I'd just quit if I thought it would be necessary to spend more than my sub), but I don't think sneaking it out like they did was a very smooth move. Unless the people responsible needed to show a revenue increase this quarter (which ends in a few weeks) and were willing to take the PR (and possible lower resub / CM income) hits that would most likely affect *next* quarter. But you'd have to be downright paranoid to think that management in an American corporation would sacrifice long term intangibles like "customer satisfaction" for "immediate financial results that directly affect my bonuses and continued employment."

 

Just sayin'

 

tl;dr:

Perhaps seeing an attempt to tune the CM, even a misguided one, just shows how important someone at BW thinks it is. Isn't that possible?

 

No.

Edited June 20, 2014 by eartharioch

[aeterno]

Frankly speaking we had it too good with the legacy unlocks. Buy one set pay not even a stipends worth of CC and duplicate at your convenience for 16 alts. It was always obvious the concept was going to eat into their profits in the long run. Guess the long run got here.

 

Having said that the way BW went about rectifying things for their bottom line is just wrong. They should have found new ways and things to monetize not ninja crank up prices and nerf drop rates in existing systems. Easier said than done I know but I bet they wish they did it now with all the drama.

[Sith-Viscera]

I don't buy gambling packs to begin with, but I feel your pain. I think we see "the EA effect" in full force here. Pricing for collections unlocks needs a lot of work - not to mention that all items in the CM should be unlockable for all characters, imo, but that's another thread.

 

The F2P business model as a whole is a good thing for gaming, and the Western Market implementation is many levels above the Eastern Market. However, RNG items and things like this are the evils we see still prevalent in our games and that will only change if we make our voices (and our wallets) heard.

 

Yeah this crap of being a SUB and still paying with RM, IF YOU WANT SOMETHING OFF THE CM, is for the birds. We should be offered to buy with Normal Comms or in game Credits. I stopped spending RM long time ago. Hell i haven't seen any thing on the CM i wanted so i saved up almost 3000 of the FREE monthly CCs, and thought this new pack has a rancor in it i try for that, and like the reason why i stop spending RM on the crap cause i spent that 3000 free CCs and got crap. I finally got one of those new little Vehicle mounts and a bunch of stuff that is useless some i can sell on GTN and others are automatically bonded to me even after the 24 hour wait time is up. Which i think is a bug, because i see people selling the same stuff and it isnt bond to them so, why just me?

 

Any how save your money buy it off GTN or do with out, its the best way to go....

[theonetruebleed]

I have to admit the recent patch, the way it broke things, the shady alteration in pricing, the drop rates, the endless fluff, the lacklustre events. It's taken a lot of the wind out of my sails. I think i've spent all of half an hour ingame this week, I just log in, realise I have no enthusiasm for it and log off. If I can't get back into a frame of mind where I feel I want to level an alt then that'll be me done for a while and to hell with early access. I can't shake the feeling i'm being so badly short changed, and the game isn't even fun for me anymore.

 

The really horrible thing, is that any Star Wars games that come out for the next ten years are going to be incredibly poor.

 

Edit: Besides, it's the World Cup and in spite of England's (typically) poor performance, it's got me in the mood for some football manager, where I can continue to take Altrincham FC up through the leagues, led by their star acquisition and legendary central midfielder, Manny Panther.

Edited June 20, 2014 by theonetruebleed

[Nuffmeister]

I guess a good thing that came out of this for me is I cancelled my sub and will stop spending way more money on CC's than I should.

 

This isn't a rage quit cancel.

 

You play me like a chump with underhanded tactics and shonky business practices then I take my wallet and go elsewhere.

 

Simple.

 

Go look at how much I've spent so far and then tell your bosses that this wallet is now permanently closed.

 

That's my feedback to you.

[DarthTHC]

Frankly speaking we had it too good with the legacy unlocks. Buy one set pay not even a stipends worth of CC and duplicate at your convenience for 16 alts. It was always obvious the concept was going to eat into their profits in the long run. Guess the long run got here.

 

Having said that the way BW went about rectifying things for their bottom line is just wrong. They should have found new ways and things to monetize not ninja crank up prices and nerf drop rates in existing systems. Easier said than done I know but I bet they wish they did it now with all the drama.

 

Not a chance. Legacy unlocks have always been too expensive. Now they're way too expensive.

 

You guys are falling into the casino chip trap. Treating it like it's not money.

 

When you see the green chip, you think, "Green chip," not "$25".

 

You need to start seeing 450 cartel coins as $4.50 and 600 cartel coins as $6.00.

[Joesixxpack]

Kudos Bioware!

 

☑ Piss off those that gave the game CPR by thanking them with silly price hikes

 

This last item on the list was challenging but you guys stuck with it and made it happen. I can't believe I doubted you on it. This calls for a celebration! May I suggest a brand new reskin with extra big shoulder pads?

Edited June 20, 2014 by Joesixxpack

[NightEngine]

Valve

 

Tell me your joking, please? Please. Valve has only release a handful of games and they milk their users for every penny they can. They do this because it's a sound business practice, that's why EA does it, and it's never going to change. Valve is also nowhere near as big and influential as EA.

 

I hate what the video game industry has become but we need to face facts. If a game company betrays your faith in them, it's partially your own fault for buying into their scheme to begin with. You were duped. Not by the developers themselves but by their marketing team and/or the publisher's.

Edited June 20, 2014 by NightEngine

[TUXs]

Kudos Bioware!

 

☑ Piss off those that gave the game CPR by thanking them with silly price hikes

 

This last item on the list was challenging but you guys stuck with it and made it happen. I can't believe I doubted you on it. This calls for a celebration! May I suggest a brand new reskin with extra big shoulder pads?

So true. And the huge shoulder pads comment...extremely fitting because just like with their armor, they didn't know when to stop. They had a good thing going and greed got the best of em. What a completely foolish choice they made.

[AGSThomas]

Hello I am Reno,

 

Everyone who has known me or seen me on these forums know I've been one of the biggest supporters of this game for a long, long time. But recently (Okay this morning to be exact) It's changed.

 

Our latest pack, The Star Cluster pack was found to have been an experiment to see if the prices on Unlocks and splitting up drop ratios could be changed. This was addressed at first like it might have been an issue, like it might have been a mess up, but it wasn't. It was intended. Now Eric has said that they've heard our feedback on how we (We being the users who brought this up in the first place and do not approve of these changes) dislike this experiment and how it would affect future packs, but it's too late.

 

Why you may ask? Because the damage is done, the trust has been broken for this user. I know I might not matter in the grand scheme of things, but there must be something wrong when one of it's biggest supporters goes from having full faith in the future of the game to having heavy doubts about whether or not it's worth giving his money to game anymore.

 

I had more I wanted to say but I wanted to keep this as civil and polite as can be while conveying why I felt how I did regarding today. I simply ask that everyone else who posts here in this thread do the same please.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read it.

 

Welcome to the 2year long party. This company has serious problem keeping its members happy. It just cant get out of the way of itself. Not sure who is coming up with these ideas, but whomever it is, doesn't care about the long term stability of the game. Because of that, I will not and have not bought Cartel Coins to fund their money sucking madness.

[Sangrar]

[Shoraan]

I'd like to address the accusation of being hypocritical regarding this change.

 

Changing the drop rates on individual items within a set or raising the unlock prices substantially without previous notice is different than other changes. When something was changed in the past it was either anounced beforehand or at least didn't cost actual money.

 

In this case the problem is that people would rightly assume that the new pack behaved just like other cartel packs before. After 16 packs that have followed a specific pattern players can rightly assume that the 17th pack behaves exactly like the ones before, unless a change is announced.

 

Yes, we all know that the CM packs are gambling packs. But even gambling has to follow rules. If the rules are changed without notice it's simply not fair. Imagine you play dice with someone for a few days. You win some and you lose some, but on the 17th day one of the players starts using a weighted die without telling the others. Who wouldn't cry "foul" at this?

 

Of course if that player had told everyone beforehand it would have been somewhat fair, because everyone else could then decide based on new conditions if they are still interested in playing.

 

And that is the reason why people complain.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Shoraan
Fixed typo

[ghoul_drool]

I'd like to address the accusation of being hypocritical regarding this change.

 

Changing the drop rates on individual items within a set or raising the unlock prices substantially without previous notice is different than other changes. When something was changed in the past it was either anounced beforehand or at least didn't cost actual money.

 

In this case the problem is that people would rightly assume that the new pack behaved just like other cartel packs before. After 16 packs that have followed a specific pattern players can rightly assume that the 17th pack behaves exactly like the ones before, unless a change is announced.

 

Yes, we all know that the CM packs are gambling packs. But even gambling has to follow rules. If the rules are changed without notice it's simply not fair. Imagine you play dice with someone for a few days. You win some and you lose some, but on the 17th day one of the players starts using a weighted die without telling the others. Who wouldn't cry "foul" at this?

 

Of course if that player had told everyone beforehand it would have been somewhat fair, because everyone else could then decide based on new conditions if they are still interested in playing.

 

And that is the reason why people complain.

 

Agreed. If anything, this is a HUGE failure in communication. And to be honest, the fact that this pack is embargoed so quickly speaks volumes. Why nothing about the 'speciality' of the pack (and presumably, the next) was announced in advance is beyond me. Then we could have simply decided the new standards were too greedy, not for us, and moved on. Now? It's just unfair stacking of the deck against their own customers. Unbelievable.

[Joesixxpack]

So true. And the huge shoulder pads comment...extremely fitting because just like with their armor, they didn't know when to stop. They had a good thing going and greed got the best of em. What a completely foolish choice they made.

 

Every company loves their accessorials but there's something about this and similar game co.'s that are face-palmingly hilarious. You can't tell if they're coming or going with this ****. What mediocrity.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Joesixxpack

[NightEngine]

Your analogy is way off the mark. People aren't complaining because fellow gamblers are cheating or getting special treatment. They're complaining because the house changed the rules - which is something well within their rights to do at any time. Even if people are crying here on the forums I can almost promise you it won't affect the longevity of the business model or the game.

[TUXs]

I'd like to address the accusation of being hypocritical regarding this change.

 

Changing the drop rates on individual items within a set or raising the unlock prices substantially without previous notice is different than other changes. When something was changed in the past it was either anounced beforehand or at least didn't cost actual money.

 

In this case the problem is that people would rightly assume that the new pack behaved just like other cartel packs before. After 16 packs that have followed a specific pattern players can rightly assume that the 17th pack behaves exactly like the ones before, unless a change is announced.

 

Yes, we all know that the CM packs are gambling packs. But even gambling has to follow rules. If the rules are changed without notice it's simply not fair. Imagine you play dice with someone for a few days. You win some and you lose some, but on the 17th day one of the players starts using a weighted die without telling the others. Who wouldn't cry "foul" at this?

 

Of course if that player had told everyone beforehand it would have been somewhat fair, because everyone else could then decide based on new conditions if they are still interested in playing.

 

And that is the reason why people complain.

I completely understand WHY you're upset...you have every right to be.

 

What I dislike is how THIS is the one issue that has so many traditional "defenders" up in arms. THIS is a 100% optional and completely VOLUNTARY purchase, that has ZERO impact on anyone's ability to enjoy the game.

 

When Bioware removed Ilum, they cheered and made posts hoping PvPers would leave the game. When Bioware changed all our 50 PvP gear to remove Expertise, they laughed at those of us who complained. When Bioware removed 8v8 ranked WZ's, they antagonized the PvPers. When PvPers complain about the lack of WZ maps, they declare that this is a PvE game. When PvEers complain about the boredom they're going through now, they mock them. No matter WHO complained before this, they defended Bioware and chastised the player...and suddenly, on some 100% fluff freaking item, they get upset? I DO NOT GET IT!

 

Don't like it? Don't buy it. It doesn't impact my gameplay at all!!!! Not even a tiny bit. ZERO!

 

I agree with their outrage, they should be upset...they were taken advantage of...but they never do the same for anyone else. Unlike them, I think THEY matter too and their issue is MY issue because WE are the community, no matter what we like to do individually.