Broken.

[Reno_Tarshil]

On the plus side for you, it's CC-related so more likely to get monitoring and responsiveness to player concerns.

 

You are likely correct, but I won't hold my breath.

 

To everyone who has posted, I want to say thanks for keeping this thread civil and orderly so far. I appreciate it.

[apanbest]

So instead you pay twice on the GTN? Or three times if you want the gear on three toons?

 

No not really, where's the fun in having all toon wearing the same armor? Non of my alts are wearing the same armor. But if I have the choice between using virtual money over real money, I always choose the former.

[Joesixxpack]

Well then good for you. But like I said, this isn't about the cartel packs themselves as much as it is about the unlock prices. So saying that the OP only has himself to blame is wrong.

 

Sure, try to remember that next time something ING not near and dear to you but is to others takes a ding.

[Rafaman]

So... I haven't unlocked any sets yet, and... although I noticed the drop rates were different, I buy what I want from GTN so... drop rates aren't a problem. And ultimately it is cosmetic so... meh.

 

My problem with this is simply the timing and lack of communication. First... this is not a good time to experiment. Quite frankly the SWTOR summer is a little sparse, with good reason, but now is not the time to alienate players further. It is time for the exact opposite.

 

Let see... we have the so called experiments with the packs.... couple that with the failure of the group finder update and SWTOR has a black eye.

 

Common BW. Now is not the time for this nonsense!

Edited June 19, 2014 by Rafaman

[TUXs]

You're confused. I don't buy CM packs. Not even from the GTN.

 

I didn't mean YOU when I said "you guys"...that was just used to address those who DO buy them. I have no idea what you do or don't buy.

[NightEngine]

So... I haven't unlocked any sets yet, and... although I noticed the drop rates were different, I buy what I want from GTN so... drop rates aren't a problem. And ultimately it is cosmetic so... meh.

 

My problem with this is simply the timing and lack of communication. First... this is not a good time to experiment. Quite frankly the SWTOR summer is a little sparse, with good reason, but now is not the time to alienate players further. It is time for the exact opposite.

 

Let see... we have the so called experiments with the packs.... couple that with the failure of the group finder update and SWTOR has a black eye.

 

Common BW. Now is not the time for this nonsense!

 

It's actually the best time. Fewer people playing means fewer people will notice and the forum is a very vocal minority. Most people I talk to in-game get all of their news from other players in-game, they don't even read the launcher news.

[TUXs]

This particular set of issues is complicated IMO. It remains unclear if this really is "as intended", especially given the large change visible in drops rates within a set and the 4-5X change in Collections prices for the pack contents. It reads much more like ---> holy @#%^... we released a big pile of broken here"... with no way to fix it except to embargo the pack on 2.8.1 and announce it as "intended by design". That position is a bit dishonest IMO but it gives the devs an "out" on the issues..... marketing cover essentially for a design mistake. But I Feel bad for Eric having to be the one that communicates this to us because IMO it is Erics credibility and trust with players that will take the hit here.

Nah, I think most of us realize Eric is simply the face...not the one who made the change. Eric did well telling us what he could...it's never enough, but I seldom (if ever) blame him for any answers he gives. He simply types the replies (I'm sure he does more than that obviously, I just mean as far as blame goes).

[Reno_Tarshil]

Nah, I think most of us realize Eric is simply the face...not the one who made the change. Eric did well telling us what he could...it's never enough, but I seldom (if ever) blame him for any answers he gives. He simply types the replies (I'm sure he does more than that obviously, I just mean as far as blame goes).

 

I want to highlight this. Despite my current view on everything regarding this, I am glad Eric did tell us something instead of keeping us in the dark guessing about it. I might not agree with it but better than nothing I guess.

[Khevar]

Tell me how many of those companies have become as big and successful as EA?

While this doesn't really answer your question, CD Projekt RED tried an alternate route and it worked very well for themselves. Of course, this company isn't as large as EA, but I still believe it's worthy of consideration.

 

They were a small development house, made The Witcher, which was well received by fans, going on to make back their investment (and then some). They chose to take some of their profits, and put it back into developing an "Enhanced Edition" with various improvements, both graphical and otherwise, but then decided to offer it for free to everyone that previously owned the game.

 

It garnered a lot of goodwill. When a bunch of noise about the sequel's DRM started surfacing, they actually patched the game to remove the DRM. Note that despite the number of copies pirated, they STILL went on to make plenty of money on actual sales. The devs also publicly spoke out against DRM, further garnering good will.

 

The third game in the series is poised to sell extremely well.

 

The basic point I'm trying to make, is that a company can be extremely successful and make a ton of money by focusing on not only on making money, but also on making a quality product AND on treating their fans well.

 

Surely you can see this, right?

Edited June 19, 2014 by Khevar

[DarthTHC]

Tell me how many of those companies have become as big and successful as EA?

 

Costco: http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/cost/financials

 

Disney: http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/disn/financials

 

Amazon: http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/amzn/financials

 

EA: http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ea/financials

 

But, hey, if you think that it's just f'in awesome for businesses to try to increase revenue and profit by deceiving their customers or obfuscating pricing changes, enjoy getting what you pay for, I guess.

Edited June 19, 2014 by DarthTHC

[BuriDogshin]

I am upset that I was deceived.

Where you deceived, that is, did BW say something to mislead you? Or is it just that you assumed that unlock prices of future CM items would be in line with unlock prices of similar past CM items, and that assumption has proven to be incorrect?

 

The unlocks I have done in the past were pretty cheap, and that may have caused a severe reduction in demand for the items, so I can understand BW changing the unlock pricing model. Various models for unlock pricing are possible, for example:

 

Make super rare items expensive to unlock to make them really really expensive on the GTN,

versus

Make common items expensive to unlock so that they don't drop to 10 credits apiece on the GTN.

 

Each of these models has its pros and cons.

 

And I can also understand not pre-announcing an alteration of the unlock pricing model, since historically pre-announing things seems to do little to reduce the QQing about it.

 

YMMV, of course. I am mainly using BoL gears now, so CM and unlock prices don't affect me much.

[Graydon]

A few weeks ago I made a post about SWTOR releasing CM outfits and dresses as the bulk of their content. Called it the Ken & Barbie thread.

 

Of course I was bashed and teased with replies of, "Duh!" or "Well, that's what we want!"

 

So guess what BW did? Yep!

 

Reno started a thread regarding this topic last week. He said multiple times that he was not happy but would pay the collection prices.

 

So guess what BW did? Yep!

 

Sorry Guys, the community brought this on themselves.

[TUXs]

A few weeks ago I made a post about SWTOR releasing CM outfits and dresses as the bulk of their content. Called it the Ken & Barbie thread.

 

Of course I was bashed and teased with replies of, "Duh!" or "Well, that's what we want!"

 

So guess what BW did? Yep!

 

Reno started a thread regarding this topic last week. He said multiple times that he was not happy but would pay the collection prices.

 

So guess what BW did? Yep!

 

Sorry Guys, the community brought this on themselves.

Ironic that they now complain about it, isn't it?

[Frybert]

 

I am upset that I was deceived.

 

We were deceived by a lie...we all were!

[Reno_Tarshil]

Ironic that they now complain about it, isn't it?

 

I fully accept and embrace all irony that is brought onto me when I posted this thread. I only ask that you keep it civil please.

[BuriDogshin]

Ironic that they now complain about it, isn't it?

Just please don't cast that "they" net too broadly. Some of us just keep enjoying the game even though BW makes mistakes and business decisions that upset some people.

 

I like what's in the game, that's my bottom line. It's all still there, even after 2.8.

 

For example: sure, 16m SM GF would have been and maybe someday will be nice, but OTOH, I queued up in GF for 8m SM to do the one-time TFB quest on Z'reign last night, then ran off to do Oricon dailies while I waited for the queue to pop. When it did pop (middle of the Heroic) I enjoyed a great run with some folks from (IIRC) Blacklisted - no wipes, no trash talk in chat, smooth and fast (even though we had at least one first-timer.) The ability to go off and do something, rather than sit on fleet and endure all the chat nonsense while LFG, was pretty sweet.

 

YMMV of course.

[OddballEasyEight]

Sure, try to remember that next time something ING not near and dear to you but is to others takes a ding.

 

Like I said, it wasn't about what he thougt it was. So that comment was wrong at the time.

If it HAD been about what he thought it was, that comment would have been right on.

[Transcendent]

Like you have any idea what the normal ratio is anyway? It's gambling...odds are in their favor and they're making a mint off you guys buying this stuff blindly.

 

Ratio aside, it's the hike in unlock costs for collections that grinds. The lack of communication about it, the fact that a bug report was raised about it... to be told it's working as intended. It's not even a incremental adjustment to collection unlock prices, it's magnitudes higher than it was previously.

 

I get that Bioware want to create interest in the CM sets, and add some rarity to the items by tweaking drop rates and unlock prices. I take no issue in that. I do however take issue in them deciding to do it when the following happens;

 

- They fail to communicate these changes with the players. No excuses there.

- They don't immediately communicate these changes when they are queried via bug reports.

- They don't even bother to ensure that the sets in question do not have clipping issues on all body types before releasing them in CM packs that others pay real money for. Zero QA (yet again, and patch 2.8 has been one of the worst to add insult to injury).

 

While Eric and Tait may be playing catch up on this change (they may well not have been told prior to this happening), to be told "working as intended" isn't an acceptable answer on it's own. Why was this change (experimental or not) not communicated prior to the packs going live? That's the question on my mind right now.

[OddballEasyEight]

I want to highlight this. Despite my current view on everything regarding this, I am glad Eric did tell us something instead of keeping us in the dark guessing about it. I might not agree with it but better than nothing I guess.

 

Same here.

I have no animosity towards Eric (or the rest of the moderators).

[OddballEasyEight]

Tell me how many of those companies have become as big and successful as EA?

 

Valve

[OddballEasyEight]

A few weeks ago I made a post about SWTOR releasing CM outfits and dresses as the bulk of their content. Called it the Ken & Barbie thread.

 

Of course I was bashed and teased with replies of, "Duh!" or "Well, that's what we want!"

 

So guess what BW did? Yep!

 

Reno started a thread regarding this topic last week. He said multiple times that he was not happy but would pay the collection prices.

 

So guess what BW did? Yep!

 

Sorry Guys, the community brought this on themselves.

 

Because we were ok with the pricing at that time.

[Joesixxpack]

Like I said, it wasn't about what he thougt it was. So that comment was wrong at the time.

If it HAD been about what he thought it was, that comment would have been right on.

 

Sure, try to remember that next time something ING not near and dear to you but is to others takes a ding.

[BuriDogshin]

The schadenfreude is strong in this thread.

[Andryah]

Just please don't cast that "they" net too broadly. Some of us just keep enjoying the game even though BW makes mistakes and business decisions that upset some people.

 

I like what's in the game, that's my bottom line. It's all still there, even after 2.8.

 

For example: sure, 16m SM GF would have been and maybe someday will be nice, but OTOH, I queued up in GF for 8m SM to do the one-time TFB quest on Z'reign last night, then ran off to do Oricon dailies while I waited for the queue to pop. When it did pop (middle of the Heroic) I enjoyed a great run with some folks from (IIRC) Blacklisted - no wipes, no trash talk in chat, smooth and fast (even though we had at least one first-timer.) The ability to go off and do something, rather than sit on fleet and endure all the chat nonsense while LFG, was pretty sweet.

 

YMMV of course.

 

/Agree. In the broader context of the game as a whole... the two issues with this pack (drop rate disparity + 4-5x unlock costs in Collections) are small.

 

And, it's not IMO that the two issues exist...but rather that they represent a significant departure from prior pack in terms of drop disparity and collections costs with ZERO ADVANCE (or even post patch) COMMUNICATIONS by Bioware. That is the real issue here.... and since they waffled on it when we bug reported the issues last week..... they made it worse from a trust standpoint. First it was...."looking into it", followed by "will be fixed in 2.8.1" followed by "working as intended, so we will just be relabeling tool tips and icons and also embargo the pack with 2.8.1

 

All they had to do was to note in the patch notes that they were "deliberately making LARGE variable drop rates in sets AND announce the new unlock costs. There would be some grumbling from some players as well as the ever popular "they are just milking us with Cartel content" hyperbole.....but at least all sincere players would know what they were getting into with this pack and avoid it if they are not willing to accept the prices and drop rates.

 

As it stands now... they deceived by omission of information that they are introducing a large departure from their norms for Cartel Packs. That is what Reno is really trying to illustrate with this thread topic I think.

 

The fact that they are immediately embargoing the pack in 2.8.1 is telling IMO that they know they released junk here, with no easy way to remedy the mistake. They are now in damage control... and it's reactive rather then proactive. Proactive would have been to disclose the changes in the patch notes. Reactive is to declare them "as intended" and then withdrawing them from sale in the next patch.

 

Keep in mind.. we have a long standing issue with tool-tips lacking ANY information as to unlock costs in Collections, until the player equips a full set of expensive gear to find a surprise in the unlock price. Surprise = lacking precedent over the last year and a half of Cartel Pack releases.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Andryah

[Joesixxpack]

The schadenfreude is strong in this thread.

 

Bonus vocab. points, but nah this thread in which it could be is remarkably lacking it.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Joesixxpack