Operative / Scoundrel Top 3 Answers

[Zoom_VI]

I don't understand...why this is so hard to understand...Bioware what are you doing?

 

I'm pretty dang sure the devs do not want to sideline anything, no game dev has ever wanted to sideline any part of their creations. Unfortunately reality sets in, and there are only so many hours in a day, so many dollars in the budget, and so many people on the staff.

[JediMasterSLC]

We are committed to evaluating and improving all of the classes and specializations that do not perform well in PvP. Ideally, we would like for every specialization to be viable in PvP, but realistically, one of those specializations for each advanced class will always be regarded as the “best” choice for a given activity (such as leveling up, endgame PvE, or PvP) in the game by players.

 

A very lame excuse for an inability to buff dps specs without buffing heal spec. It is not hard.

 

It is unlikely that Operative/Scoundrel set bonuses will be improved any time soon because Operative/Scoundrel damage and healing output is already quite high

 

What? You recognize that dps scoundrels are weak in PvP, but say you can't give dps scoundrels better pvp set bonus(es)?

Edited June 18, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[Adovir]

A very lame excuse for an inability to buff dps specs without buffing heal spec. It is not hard.

 

 

 

What? You recognize that dps scoundrels are weak in PvP, but say you can't give dps scoundrels better pvp set bonus(es)?

 

To me it just seems like they just want us to play healers exclusively so they can get our prohealing. Though I do find it kinda ****ed up that no matter what spec we at in PVP we are hated for it, play dps in arena an you get berated if you lose and if you play heals you get berated either way, by your team or by the other

[jack__]

The old infusion was a 1.5 sec cast cost 20 eng and 1 TA, one second faster than injection because injection is a 2.5 second cast non talented. Before when I ran with 2 points into incivice action and 2 in endorphine rush I would flash bang inject, infuse, inject,infuse explosive probe adrenaline probe as I debilitate to shiv backstab. With the old infusion you could almost h2f especially if you got crits and you could easily do this but now you can't which is why I prefered the old version because as a healer too you could burst heal anyone up to near max with inject infuse surg probe nano tech

 

When talented with 2 in incisive action, injection is a 2 second cast and infusion is a 1.5 second cast. It has been like that since before 2.0. The only thing they changed for infusion in 2.0 was the heal amount (from all upfront to upfront and a hot) and the cooldown, the cast time never changed. So with the exception of the cooldown added, the changes to infusion were only positive.

[Adovir]

When talented with 2 in incisive action, injection is a 2 second cast and infusion is a 1.5 second cast. It has been like that since before 2.0been like that since launch, look at 2.0 notes no changes to it but the cd added and changed how to heals. The only thing they changed for infusion in 2.0 was the heal amount (from all upfront to upfront and a hot) and the cooldown, the cast time never changed. So with the exception of the cooldown added, the changes to infusion were only positive.

 

The2.0 changes

 

A new ability, Exfiltrate, has been added. Exfiltrate will roll the the player forward up to 12 meters. When slowed, players will only roll forward 6 meters. While rolling, defense is increased. Exfiltrate does not break stealth, costs 25 Energy, has no cooldown, and is trainable at level 51.

New passive ability, Preparedness, has been added which increases Energy regeneration rate.

Avoidance Training has been removed from the game. This effect is now incorporated into Evasion by default.

Carbine Burst is now trainable at level 12.

Kolto Infusion has been redesigned. This ability now heals for a moderate amount up front in addition to a moderate amount over 9 seconds.

Stim Boost is now trainable at level 16 and has been redesigned. This ability no longer requires and consumes Tactical Advantage. Instead, this ability now has a 2-minute cooldown, grants Tactical Advantage, and increases Alacrity for a short duration.

Tactical Advantage now causes the character to giggle the first time it is applied if Tactical Advantage is not already active.

Diagnostic Scan is now trainable at level 18.

Infiltrate can now only be activated while Stealth is active Additionally, Infiltrated group members can now use Sneak and Blackout.

Infiltrate now provides a visual effect that shows the stealth field projected around the Operative.

Infiltrate now reduces movement speed by 15% (down from 30%).

 

 

I healed and dpsed so much pre and post 2.0 that I know conc and medicine better than my own brother

[JediMasterSLC]

Remove dodge/evasion CD talent in heal spec. Just do it. Make your hot cost a little more energy. Why is this so hard BW.

[Adovir]

Remove dodge/evasion CD talent in heal spec. Just do it. Make your hot cost a little more energy. Why is this so hard BW.

 

Why, just why are you suggesting nerfs?

[BobaFaceroll]

The old infusion was a 1.5 sec cast cost 20 eng and 1 TA, one second faster than injection because injection is a 2.5 second cast non talented. Before when I ran with 2 points into incivice action and 2 in endorphine rush I would flash bang inject, infuse, inject,infuse explosive probe adrenaline probe as I debilitate to shiv backstab. With the old infusion you could almost h2f especially if you got crits and you could easily do this but now you can't which is why I prefered the old version because as a healer too you could burst heal anyone up to near max with inject infuse surg probe nano tech

 

Infusion sucked pre-2.0 for PvE. It barely healed for more than Probe, but it had an induction and a power cost. It wasn't worth casting, especially when you needed TA to maintain Stim Boost. If you didn't remove it from your skill bar the second you got Surgical Probe you were doing it wrong. Post 2.0, where TA is both easier to come by and no longer needed to maintain your energy regen, it's a great heal. It's only great because of the HoT they attached in 2.0 though. Without that you'd still spend your TA on a power free SP and leave Infusion off the skill bar.

 

For PvP...you really prefer 4 hard casts? Injection >> New Infusion >> Injection is going to be more overall healing now than your old 4 cast routine (the HOT is stronger than the upfront heal) and cost you one less GCD, less total energy, and one fewer TA.

 

Why, just why are you suggesting nerfs?

 

Apparently he feels this is the correct thread for suggestions to make heal Ops easier to kill in PvP.

Edited June 18, 2014 by BobaFaceroll

[Adovir]

Infusion sucked pre-2.0 for PvE. It barely healed for more than Probe, but it had an induction and a power cost. It wasn't worth casting, especially when you needed TA to maintain Stim Boost. If you didn't remove it from your skill bar the second you got Surgical Probe you were doing it wrong. Post 2.0, where TA is both easier to come by and no longer needed to maintain your energy regen, it's a great heal. It's only great because of the HoT they attached in 2.0 though. Without that you'd still spend your TA on a power free SP and leave Infusion off the skill bar.

 

For PvP...you really prefer 4 hard casts? Injection >> New Infusion >> Injection is going to be more overall healing now than your old 4 cast routine (the HOT is stronger than the upfront heal) and cost you one less GCD, less total energy, and one fewer TA.

 

 

 

Apparently he feels this is the correct thread for suggestions to make heal Ops easier to kill in PvP.

 

For clarification the inject infuse ect was for DPSing only, I used to run with 7 in the medicine tree for quicker heal casts and endorphin rush so you could spam that furring a FB to nearly heal to full and for further clarification in PVE the reason why infusion was good was bc it had the 15% crit chance on set bonus, couple that with the fact that crit stacking was an incredibly good way to go(I ran ~40%myself and I could out heal anyone on my servers) you could almost get a crit on all casts so it's up front was drastically better than probe. Also with stim boost costing 1 TA you just ,inject, inject,inject, recoupe, stim boost to then start fight.

[Adovir]

But this is a classic case of personal opinion, I like one thing you like the other, who is wrong and who is right? Well neither or maybe you like I said personal opinion maybe the numbers do end up being better but for it requires more time to be elapsed while mine requires less time because if a lucky crit or two . Lets agree that we shouldn't derail the thread further though, from this point on we shall only talk about how to make the class stronger and ignore those who suggest stupid nerfs, agreeded?

[JediMasterSLC]

Why, just why are you suggesting nerfs?

 

Because since 2.0 and even before, a large amount of the imbalance in this game has stemmed from op heals being significantly stronger than the other 2 healers. It remains the only "must-have" spec in PvP. I realize this is the operative forum and all, but you can't deny that it needs a nerf relative to the other healers. I'm just asking for some 2.0 (you know, the patch that buffed the ever-loving **** out of op heals for no reason; teams were already running 2 op heals instead of 1 op 1 sorc in 8v8 ranked by that point) buff reversions.

Edited June 18, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[Adovir]

Because since 2.0 and even before, a large amount of the imbalance in this game has stemmed from op heals being significantly stronger than the other 2 healers. It remains the only "must-have" spec in PvP. I realize this is the operative forum and all, but you can't deny that it needs a nerf relative to the other healers. I'm just asking for some 2.0 (you know, the patch that buffed the ever-loving **** out of op heals for no reason; teams were already running 2 op heals instead of 1 op 1 sorc in 8v8 ranked by that point) buff reversions.

 

So your complaining that one class is better at PVP healing than the others because their healing is more effective you are askin for nerfs to the spec. You have to realize that if you have more than one class that can do the same job but differently it will always be something along the lines of A>B>C>..... But people will never admit to this because they don't like being at the bottom. Yes yes Ik I'm a hypocrite because I'm asking for buffs but nothing game breaking, something that makes it so that our dps are viable enough fight players 1v1 with out needing to out play them, is that unfair? The only reason why we defend our healing is because it's the only thing we can get in any sort of competative PVP take that away and we have nothing, and I'm sorry to all of you who don't know how to kill op healers because its really easy just use your breaker wisely and use your cc wisely

[Transcendent]

Because since 2.0 and even before, a large amount of the imbalance in this game has stemmed from op heals being significantly stronger than the other 2 healers. It remains the only "must-have" spec in PvP. I realize this is the operative forum and all, but you can't deny that it needs a nerf relative to the other healers.

 

I can. Try not soloing the healers, that's a good start if you're trying to DPS them. Even soloing an OP healer can put enough pressure on them so they are not healing their team, if you bother to use interrupts etc.

[JediMasterSLC]

....... seriously? You're really trying to defend op heals being significantly better than the other 2? You really don't think that's a problem????

[Adovir]

....... seriously? You're really trying to defend op heals being significantly better than the other 2? You really don't think that's a problem????

 

Name me another ranked PVP viable spec for the operative, one that actually gets taken to team ranked by a decent team

[JediMasterSLC]

Name me another ranked PVP viable spec for the operative, one that actually gets taken to team ranked by a decent team

 

DF scoundrel is one of my favorite specs in the game, and I'd love to see both dps specs get buffed. I assume this would occur to a significant degree in the same patch that heal spec got nerfed. Have you ever considered that the reason dps ops haven't been a thing for years is because the devs can keep telling themselves that "it's ok that the dps specs suck: they have an OP heal spec they can play, so the class isn't getting shafted too bad". Once op heals was brought down to merc and sorc level, or merc and sorc were brought up, there would be a more urgent case for dps ops needing buffs.

[Adovir]

DF scoundrel is one of my favorite specs in the game, and I'd love to see both dps specs get buffed. I assume this would occur to a significant degree in the same patch that heal spec got nerfed. Have you ever considered that the reason dps ops haven't been a thing for years is because the devs can keep telling themselves that "it's ok that the dps specs suck: they have an OP heal spec they can play, so the class isn't getting shafted too bad". Once op heals was brought down to merc and sorc level, or merc and sorc were brought up, there would be a more urgent case for dps ops needing buffs.

 

Honestly they're not that op you just have no clue how to fight one, I've never met any healer op merc or sorc that I couldn't kill

[Adovir]

Have you ever thought that our healers have been made the best for PVP healing because our dps has been shafted for so long? Maybe I would be willing to give up some healing if they actually fixed our dps but asking for nerfs to the one spec that gets us into competitive play with out suggesting things that would make it so that our dps might get us a spot is even more crazier/"unfair" as keeping our healers the best. I'm sorry to the sorcs who have a hard time in ranked because their healing is not conducive to PVP but more well suited to the older raid content where you stacked and puddled up. I'm sorry you can't do that in PVP with out getting your *** wrecked or that you have to lose some life to get resource back and that should be addressed but guess what that's the only thing that keeps them in check with all the other healers. There was a time that sorcs were the most over powered thing because of the fact that they could heal Indefiantly because they had to use no life on consume, so what fix them completely? Then they become the new kid on the block again and they become OP, so do you nerf madness? Do the same with mercs do you nerf arsenal? All we want is just something to make it so that our dps can win a 1v1 with out having to mash our heads on the wall or if a second person comes to help you're better off running away because you have absolutely nothing to win that. We don't want an ED or immune bubble or anything of the sort just the ability to fight with out getting a migraine

[JediMasterSLC]

Honestly they're not that op you just have no clue how to fight one, I've never met any healer op merc or sorc that I couldn't kill

 

It's not about being able to kill one..... how are you not getting this? It's about no serious team being able to consider any other class as a healer. Do you even ranked?

Edited June 18, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[Adovir]

It's not about being able to kill one..... how are you not getting this? It's about no serious team being able to consider any other class as a healer. Do you even ranked?

 

Yes I do ranked but if you had the choice of bringing the premier tank, healer and 2 dps why wouldn't you? Can the job be done with the B team, yes. Will it be harder? Yes. Are people willing to do so? Yes

[JediMasterSLC]

Yes I do ranked but if you had the choice of bringing the premier tank, healer and 2 dps why wouldn't you? Can the job be done with the B team, yes. Will it be harder? Yes. Are people willing to do so? Yes

 

That doesn't make any sense...... we're talking about balance. You're really starting to sound like you're ok with one class being dominant in a role over the 2 for that role for years. Stop whining and realize that BW will not allow the dps specs to become strong until heal spec receives its needed tone-down (or, the other 2 heal specs get buffed up to op level). Btw, dps mercs are little to no better than ops, yet their heal spec is inferior. What about them eh? Anyway, heal ops being OP and dps ops being UP are two separate issues: stop trying to conflate them. You are obstructing the progression of class/spec balance with your fear-mongering.

 

Btw, no: no serious team is willing to gimp themselves with a non op healer.

Edited June 19, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[JediMasterSLC]

You seem to suffer from the flawed philosophical mindset that balance should be centered around classes, rather than specs. One spec being OP cannot be a justification for another of the same class being UP, and vice versa. Treating each spec as a separate entity is highly preferable. Heal spec needs a nerf relative to other healers, and dps spec need buffs. Plain and simple. Edited June 19, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[Adovir]

Look I'm not going to argue this any more because its really complicated to explain because explaining the whole top and bottom of the barrel to people for some reason but look you have your opinions and I have mine I respectfully ask you to leave this forum/thread if you continue to ask to nerf our class in any way when this is to improve our class. This isn't the place or time to be asking for what your asking. The operative community has been fairly well gutted because of warranted and unwarranted nerfs to it so you can see why we don't like the idea of our class getting nerfed again doesn't sit well with us. We have asked for one thing for so long and when we were given the opertunity to get something on the PTS it was a very meh thing that they did for us then they threw it to the corner while they took a class like the assassin which has decept and darkness that are pretty decent specs for ranked and then they buff madness for PVE reasons but then they kinda went out of their way abit to give them more defense when they already have better defensive skills then us as is. But this is all off topic so again I respectfully ask you to leave or contribute to the purpose of this thread and not try to further your own agendas .

[deanth]

You seem to suffer from the flawed philosophical mindset that balance should be centered around classes, rather than specs. One spec being OP cannot be a justification for another of the same class being UP, and vice versa. Treating each spec as a separate entity is highly preferable. Heal spec needs a nerf relative to other healers, and dps spec need buffs. Plain and simple.

 

And OP/Scoun heals did get nerfed a bit. Instead of calling for nerfs to heals, call for buffs so that the other classes heal spec is up to par with OP heals, Mercs/Commando heals are similarly positioned with Op/Scoun heals now.

[JediMasterSLC]

And OP/Scoun heals did get nerfed a bit. Instead of calling for nerfs to heals, call for buffs so that the other classes heal spec is up to par with OP heals, Mercs/Commando heals are similarly positioned with Op/Scoun heals now.

 

Hardly. 2 free rolls every 10 secs >>> energy cost roll with no CD in arenas. Emergency medpac change may have prevented bad healers from prolonging a death via medpac spam, but buffed their hps above execute range.

 

Mercs may have gotten some nice buffs, but they're still significantly behind ops. No decent teams run a merc heals. Honestly, I think op heals should be nerfed to merc heal level, and sorc heals buffed up to that level.