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Dread Palace (NiM) 8-Man World Progression Tracking

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Saenth

Saenth

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If anyone is curious, here's our PTS Council Kill (Burn Phase only).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yKMNGfjTvU

 

This actually shows our "world first" reaction as opposed to our ****** live one. Enjoy.

 

My favorite moment in that is when Milas is screaming Deposer of the Dread Fortress in his usual way. :)

 

Big gz to all who have finished and good luck to the rest still out there!

 

So now that the fight details can be discussed...yeah...it is definitely not 'easy' but there is nothing particularly tricky about accomplishing this fight. It is more a decent skill check, since tanks cannot make mistakes, you need around 4k ehps in P1/P3 from both healers, and your DPS must be strong since it is pretty impossible to do phase 2 without healer DPS as well. The hardest point in the fight is having enough DPS to finish off Brontes while avoiding all the lightning fingers.

 

I would say me and my cohealer (Sorvali) averaged about 450-500k combined damage in phase 2. On a merc heals it is easily possible with attack adrenal to do over 300k damage.

Edited by Saenth
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Elusive_Thing

Elusive_Thing

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Saenth: Given the damage/heal numbers you mentioned, is there anything you'd change in your group composition? Assuming the new class/spec would be played with equal skill level and gear. Congrats on the kill, I will certainly watch the video once I get home.
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Saenth

Saenth

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Saenth: Given the damage/heal numbers you mentioned, is there anything you'd change in your group composition? Assuming the new class/spec would be played with equal skill level and gear. Congrats on the kill, I will certainly watch the video once I get home.

 

I think for many reasons mercenary and operative healers are the best. The combination of fast high APM heals for operative, with operative hots, mercenary shells, etc. is very good across the board. Missile is ridiculously good for Council because you often have 3-4 people grouped up at one time, whether it's around Calphayus or in the middle. Also, it is a great combination for the Styrak and Brontes phase for the following reason: the Merc can apply shells to everyone for free as you start, then DPS. The operative is built very well to maintain their dot on both targets while throwing in random explosive probe/backstab/shiv/snipe, as appropriate. If you can manage to make it to phase 2 with a sorc healers, the sorc healer must do some heals to maintain their Force, but I don't think the sorc will manage any better than the operative at throwing off-DPS.

 

Here are my heal logs:

Operative - http://www.torparse.com/a/703313/29/0/Heals+Given

Merc - http://www.torparse.com/a/703312/10/0/Heals+Given

 

Consider the following. When preparing for this fight, my cohealer and I worked on heal DPS rotation strategies on the dummy to see what sort of numbers can be sustained. 2.2-2.3k on a merc can be achieved for an indefinite length of time - and much higher with AOE - while an operative and sorc have trouble breaking 2k sustained and do not benefit as much from AOE. In addition, the sorc must stop after 1-2 minutes due to Force difficulties.

 

As for the other roles: Annihilation Marauder is one of the strongest specs in the game and is the best melee for the burn phase because of maximum uptime when avoiding the lightning fingers. The marauder also provides bloodthirst. Concealment operative was also invaluable to our world first kill because it provided the stealth rez on one of our DPS when my own failed and I had to return to healing. Operative also has some of the best off heals in the game and I believe Kesmet, our operative DPS, managed around 6-8 kolto injections when we were stabilizing going into phase 3. Operative can also help the heals by cleansing death marks in a pinch. For these reasons, I highly recommend operative as well.

 

Of course one can argue similar points for other classes, I think out of all points, having a Marauder helps you get over the line for the DPS check.

 

In our experience, lethality/hybrid kiting Sniper is the strongest option. MM snipers can kite as well and have certain advantages, but when lethality/hybrid Sniper is done right, it still takes very little damage and has better potential on the burn in P2. Mercenary and powertech DPS can easily kite as well and could be swapped in; these classes may bring higher DPS for P2. Council in general is not a fight where the sniper shield matters, since if you manage a clean P3 you can enter the burn phase with high HP and it is very manageable. That said, one key advantage of sniper is the easy armor debuff on all targets which not even a juggernaut tank can match.

 

As for other DPS classes, they don't much matter, but mercenaries/sorcs are good for off heals and high DMG. :) We had great success on our two kills with these classes.

 

Tank wise, it is very clear powertech is the strongest tank with the best AOE/range for P2 and for us, was always lower in damage taken. If you have to take a different tank, take assassin for the self cleanse on death mark and good P2 DPS. Juggernauts can do the fight (we had one for PTS and the first clear) but nothing about the class suggests it is good. The only nice thing about juggernaut is the armor debuff which most groups will find unnecessary with 1-2 snipers in their lineup.

Edited by Saenth
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Taccu

Taccu

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Hi, I'm Wunderbar of Ambassadors.

 

First of all congratz to all of you.

 

I'm one of Ambassadors two Healers. I want to share some of my impressions downing this boss.

 

Since two years we're running with the same heal setup. Sage(which i'm playing) and my colleague Tobiasvon playing scoundrel.

 

We're pretty a damn good team. Since brontes was bugged on ptr with his jump-smash hitting twice, i had to play commando.

But in the end downing Brontes with my sage, because salvation + shields did the trick.

 

Nevertheless in dp i switched for the first two bosses to commando and than back to sage for 3 and 4.

 

For the final one i heard from zorz's setup with scoundrel and commando. So we did.

 

First of all, I don't say i mastered commando but i'm pretty damn good.

 

But during our try time i found it harder to heal up the tanks compared to my sage, due to very hard hit combos.

 

Which as sage can be shielded and due to higher crits easilier been healed.

 

So all i want to say is that i can't understand why i hearing these days from several top guilds that sage is harder to play than commando on this boss.

 

Naturally sage is not as mobile than commando. But if you and your team focus your strategy on maximising out the overwhelming heal of salvation, it's pretty much a joke to heal p3(p1 also).

 

And of course in p2 i was way above my commando dps as sage.

 

 

So good luck to everyone remaining

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Saenth

Saenth

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Yes and gz again. :) I would say that teams that are not used to running sage healers may struggle a bit more than yours. As you say, you need to use salvation quite well and if you've been doing that for some time as a team, it is not as much of an issue. I do think it is a tough class to play in a fight where taking your life at the wrong moment results in death from thundering blast + smash combo.

 

Cannot really understand how you did more dps as sage heals than commando...have tested all heals and this just doesn't seem possible.

 

We do look forward to seeing if we can manage with sorc heals after timed run.

Edited by Saenth
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Elusive_Thing

Elusive_Thing

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Wow, astonished by your reply, Saenth. Very thorough! I should probably note that I am not in a progression group at the moment, but I do follow these very keenly, because I am a curious bugger. It's always nice to see how people solve various issues in the game, even if I won't see the same obstacles for a long time.

 

I think for many reasons mercenary and operative healers are the best. The combination of fast high APM heals for operative, with operative hots, mercenary shells, etc. is very good across the board. Missile is ridiculously good for Council because you often have 3-4 people grouped up at one time, whether it's around Calphayus or in the middle. Also, it is a great combination for the Styrak and Brontes phase for the following reason: the Merc can apply shells to everyone for free as you start, then DPS. The operative is built very well to maintain their dot on both targets while throwing in random explosive probe/backstab/shiv/snipe, as appropriate. If you can manage to make it to phase 2 with a sorc healers, the sorc healer must do some heals to maintain their Force, but I don't think the sorc will manage any better than the operative at throwing off-DPS.

I have no experience as a Merc healer, but I do have Sage/Sorc and Scoundrel/Op and from my experience with the other difficulty modes, I must agree with your opinion about those two. The excellent Merc healers I know have all said the off-DPS is excellent and with my Op/Scoundrel I've noticed I can off-DPS quite well too. Shiv/Backstab are cheap enough and can do respectable damage for a healer and though EP is pretty expensive, it's also on a long CD, so the cost is not prohibitive.

 

I will most definitely have a look when I get home.

 

Consider the following. When preparing for this fight, my cohealer and I worked on heal DPS rotation strategies on the dummy to see what sort of numbers can be sustained. 2.2-2.3k on a merc can be achieved for an indefinite length of time - and much higher with AOE - while an operative and sorc have trouble breaking 2k sustained and do not benefit as much from AOE. In addition, the sorc must stop after 1-2 minutes due to Force difficulties.

Interesting, I had no idea the off-DPS of a Merc was that good and easily sustained. The AoE comes as no surprise though, given the number of tools they have. I'd reckon in a real fight the Operative would also suffer slightly from the melee range requirement for the most cost-efficient DPS combos.

 

As for the other roles: Annihilation Marauder is one of the strongest specs in the game and is the best melee for the burn phase because of maximum uptime when avoiding the lightning fingers. The marauder also provides bloodthirst. Concealment operative was also invaluable to our world first kill because it provided the stealth rez on one of our DPS when my own failed and I had to return to healing. Operative also has some of the best off heals in the game and I believe Kesmet, our operative DPS, managed around 6-8 kolto injections when we were stabilizing going into phase 3. Operative can also help the heals by cleansing death marks in a pinch. For these reasons, I highly recommend operative as well.

The pain of stealth ressing as a healer Operative! HoT's, HoT's everywhere! The new buffs for Annihilation must've helped a fair bit and Annihilation is really, really good in longer fights. The rationale behind Concealment is very solid too; self-cleanse, stealth and off-heals/cleanse are all valuable tools.

 

In our experience, lethality/hybrid kiting Sniper is the strongest option. MM snipers can kite as well and have certain advantages, but when lethality/hybrid Sniper is done right, it still takes very little damage and has better potential on the burn in P2. Mercenary and powertech DPS can easily kite as well and could be swapped in; these classes may bring higher DPS for P2. Council in general is not a fight where the sniper shield matters, since if you manage a clean P3 you can enter the burn phase with high HP and it is very manageable. That said, one key advantage of sniper is the easy armor debuff on all targets which not even a juggernaut tank can match.

I jump between the four popular Sniper specs and I've done the Council as Leth and hybrid, though obviously not NiM. Hybrid felt more intuitive somehow, but I've lost the logs somewhere, so I can't comment on the DPS differences. Also, Sniper and Mara in tandem have tremendous utility.

 

As for other DPS classes, they don't much matter, but mercenaries/sorcs are good for off heals and high DMG. :) We had great success on our two kills with these classes.

I reckon I'd still shy away from using Deception here :D

 

Tank wise, it is very clear powertech is the strongest tank with the best AOE/range for P2 and for us, was always lower in damage taken. If you have to take a different tank, take assassin for the self cleanse on death mark and good P2 DPS. Juggernauts can do the fight (we had one for PTS and the first clear) but nothing about the class suggests it is good. The only nice thing about juggernaut is the armor debuff which most groups will find unnecessary with 1-2 snipers in their lineup.

Interesting. I reckon the passive mitigation really works its magic there.

 

Thanks again for the excellent response. Though I am a relative scrub, I love theorycrafting and knowing how people work through the biggest obstacles. Greatly appreciated!

Edited by Elusive_Thing
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Gyronamics

Gyronamics

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So all i want to say is that i can't understand why i hearing these days from several top guilds that sage is harder to play than commando on this boss.

 

Less useful at healing quickly moving groups or scattered players.

 

Also compare these numbers:

 

16m NiM: Thundering Blast and Smash on heavy armour: 16k and 8k

About 19k and 10k on light armour.

 

8m NiM: Thundering Blast and Smash on heavy armour: 10k and 5k

About 12k and 6k on light armour.

 

Every now and again you take both hits at once.

Edited by Gyronamics
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Zenocyde

Zenocyde

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Milas where are you, we need you on PTS right now for "Dread Hell" op progression, we're on Kephess the Reborn atm.........got to get in time before October so we're ready!

 

I thought it was Warlord Kephess the Reborn Undying Clone ... my mistake.

 

 

....on a completely different note, I present this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TquIMFXGnRc

and I'm aware I was late most of those times, I'm much better at it now than I was when I got these recordings.

ALSO THIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgATgHF_v9w

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Citruzz

Citruzz

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I thought it was Warlord Kephess the Reborn Undying Clone ... my mistake.

 

 

....on a completely different note, I present this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TquIMFXGnRc

and I'm aware I was late most of those times, I'm much better at it now than I was when I got these recordings.

ALSO THIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgATgHF_v9w

 

a nice mix of drama and humor. oscar-worthy!

Edited by Citruzz
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SnickerJew

SnickerJew

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Posted
I thought it was Warlord Kephess the Reborn Undying Clone ... my mistake.

 

 

....on a completely different note, I present this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TquIMFXGnRc

and I'm aware I was late most of those times, I'm much better at it now than I was when I got these recordings.

ALSO THIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgATgHF_v9w

 

I literally cringe everytime I see a kiter NOT JUMP when going through Raptus.

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