WildStar: Who's Been Playing?

[MiaRB]

Sounds like a pretty gross exaggeration. I've received less spam than I did in my first few weeks of SWTOR's launch.

 

Once CREDD goes live, lazy people won't need to resort to gold sellers.

 

As for bots, I really have no idea how bots could even manage in the game. If you don't pay attention to the telegraphs and move constantly, you're dead.

 

 

 

Right...pretty sure you didn't.

 

WS BGs are full of bots.

 

CREDD wont stop gold sellers and leveling services. selling CREDD for gold is no different than selling cartel market items for credits. yet, gold sellers are still around in this game and it other games that have cash shops.

Edited June 10, 2014 by MiaRB

[chuixupu]

WS BGs are full of bots.

 

I believe you, it just seems like they'd be far less effective than in a game where you can literally just stand there and fire stuff off, like this game and WoW. They have said they're aware of the issue and are working on it, though, as is the case for everything i ever MMO problem ever, with varying degrees of success. I expect that with all the free trials happening right now, it's going to be at its worst.

 

CREDD wont stop gold sellers and leveling services. selling CREDD for gold is no different than selling cartel market items for credits. yet, gold sellers are still around in this game and it other games that have cash shops.

 

It won't stop them, of course, but it does cut into their sales. It is a bit different than the cartel market as you can actually buy subscription time. It would be nice if we could actually do consistent things in game to earn cartel coins, and buy subscription time with them, wouldn't it? I doubt they'll ever do that, though.

I think Blizzard eventually made progress with limiting the number of gold sellers in the game, though it took them years to do it. I've accepted that it's going to happen, I just don't want them in my face 24/7.

[cymonguk]

I believe you, it just seems like they'd be far less effective than in a game where you can literally just stand there and fire stuff off, like this game and WoW. They have said they're aware of the issue and are working on it, though, as is the case for everything i ever MMO problem ever, with varying degrees of success. I expect that with all the free trials happening right now, it's going to be at its worst.

The issue isn't about them being any good in BG they just stand there and afk. Which is obviously a pain in the backside if you get 5 bots on your team you can never win. The bots are only there for the free XP. They run around an auto attack every so often.

 

They have tried to do something about this, but this is now killing legitimate players as they are getting booted from games. This arguably more annoying than the bots as you can be playing for 5 minutes be winning then get booted as a bot.

 

They may get it under control or not. ZoS have not got their bots under control, BW pretty much have, which way it will tip depends on the dev.

 

I agree CREDD ay resolve the issues, however Carbine have said they are not going to release CREDD atm (it has been delayed indefinitely).

 

My personal experience with gold spam may be different to yours, I know I am not alone however. I got 100+ spam emails in a few hours. I have never had any gold spam in SWTOR , but maybe BW have had the time to deal with it. I actually like the game in many ways, and hope they fix it, personally SWTOR is going to be my go to game for a while, but I like to take a break and think that this may be the game I will go to while I get tired of it.

Edited June 11, 2014 by cymonguk

[ghoul_drool]

I personally haven't played Wildstar but I was interested by it, and did some research, as I'm likely to do before trying out a game. Some observations.

 

I think the artstyle is cute, but annoyingly so. It'll put me off before it'll be the factor that keeps me playing. I seriously do NOT like the telegraphing. I've seen PVP videos of Wildstar where whole groups just randomly spam AoEs. And these are supposed to be the serious gamers. The beta testers and the like. Imagine what a new player will be doing in a telegraph avalanche like that. Now imagine ten. Blind button mashing with very little wiggle room for strategy. Not because it can't be done... but because other players will turn your PVP in a mashfest.

 

I hear the difficulty gets problematic at higher level. The endgame requires commitment and effort. That's fine...but I don't see this IP as being one to attract that sort of players. I see this being marketed as a rather - and excuse me here- childish, cartoonish, juvenile game. Some may like that sense of humor, but in my opinion, it's contradictory if you're only going to provide endgame for 'hardcore' players. Especially if you're going to focus on PVP above story content. I feel this will endanger Wildstar's playing base. Not to mention creating a very toxic community. Already I've read threads on the WS forums by players who vehemently crusade to keep casuals OUT of Wildstar. Sound familiar?

 

Then, I've read about bot problems, spam problems, loot problems (very unrewarding loot after massive effort), credit sink problems (housing, massive repair bills) and leveling problems (stale grinding until you reach endgame)

 

Chances of an F2P model/ cash shop implemented: VERY likely.

Edited June 11, 2014 by ghoul_drool

[chuixupu]

The issue isn't about them being any good in BG they just stand there and afk. Which is obviously a pain in the backside if you get 5 bots on your team you can never win. The bots are only there for the free XP. They run around an auto attack every so often.

 

They have tried to do something about this, but this is now killing legitimate players as they are getting booted from games. This arguably more annoying than the bots as you can be playing for 5 minutes be winning then get booted as a bot.

 

They will. The devs have been very responsive to things so far. I haven't really seen them myself, nor anyone in my guild or friends list, they can't be THAT prevalent.

 

 

I agree CREDD ay resolve the issues, however Carbine have said they are not going to release CREDD atm (it has been delayed indefinitely).

 

CREDD went live yesterday. http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/credd-is-now-live/

 

 

Then, I've read about bot problems, spam problems, loot problems (very unrewarding loot after massive effort), credit sink problems (housing, massive repair bills) and leveling problems (stale grinding until you reach endgame)

 

You will read similar problems in every single MMO, even when WoW was in in its peak.

 

I don't expect any MMO to ever be the WoW killer, or the next huge phenomenon. The F2P market is massively supersaturated right now, and if Carbine is smart, they haven't been shooting for moon either, or aiming to please everyone. They've been pretty straight forward about what kind of player they want to attract, so as long as they don't start watering it down by being a jack of all trades, they've got a solid niche game on their hands.

Edited June 11, 2014 by chuixupu

[PlasmaJohn]

The F2P market is massively supersaturated right now, and if Carbine is smart, they haven't been shooting for moon either, or aiming to please everyone. They've been pretty straight forward about what kind of player they want to attract, so as long as they don't start watering it down by being a jack of all trades, they've got a solid niche game on their hands.

That begs the $100M question.

 

It's pretty clear what Carbine intends, but as a wholly owned subsidiary of NCSoft the burning question is is NCSoft willing to let them be niche? If it wasn't for that "wholly owned" bit, yeah, Carbine might have half a leg to stand on if it came to butting heads with their publisher.

 

I pretty much sprayed coffee all over my monitor when Frost claimed they'll shut WS down before letting it go F2P. If NCSoft wants it to go F2P and casual friendly, that's where it's gonna go along with a basket full of pink slips.

 

Or maybe pigs do fly (them Chuas is craaaafty). Like you said, the F2P market is pretty saturated. Maybe some marketing genius at NCSoft thought or was convinced that there's untapped profit in niche gaming.

 

Time will tell. Meanwhile, I have a diversion while TOR figures out how to be productive on the pot.

[Projawa]

That begs the $100M question.

 

It's pretty clear what Carbine intends, but as a wholly owned subsidiary of NCSoft the burning question is is NCSoft willing to let them be niche? If it wasn't for that "wholly owned" bit, yeah, Carbine might have half a leg to stand on if it came to butting heads with their publisher.

 

I pretty much sprayed coffee all over my monitor when Frost claimed they'll shut WS down before letting it go F2P. If NCSoft wants it to go F2P and casual friendly, that's where it's gonna go along with a basket full of pink slips.

 

Or maybe pigs do fly (them Chuas is craaaafty). Like you said, the F2P market is pretty saturated. Maybe some marketing genius at NCSoft thought or was convinced that there's untapped profit in niche gaming.

 

Time will tell. Meanwhile, I have a diversion while TOR figures out how to be productive on the pot.

 

Exactly. All their tough talk about 'do or die' as a hardcore sub-only MMO sounds fine and full of bravado for the press but they have F2P contingency plans for if things go south and NCSoft isn't willing to let them be a niche game.

 

As for untapped profit in niche gaming- WS isn't another EVE. Banking on that outcome is a crapshoot at best and wishful thinking at worst.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Projawa

[PlasmaJohn]

As for untapped profit in niche gaming- WS isn't another EVE. Banking on that outcome is a crapshoot at best and wishful thinking at worst.

Personally I think there's a market for niche... but not on AAA budgets (or even AA budgets). So yeah, that sorta invalidates my wishful thinking theory.

[chuixupu]

That begs the $100M question.

 

It's pretty clear what Carbine intends, but as a wholly owned subsidiary of NCSoft the burning question is is NCSoft willing to let them be niche? If it wasn't for that "wholly owned" bit, yeah, Carbine might have half a leg to stand on if it came to butting heads with their publisher.

 

I pretty much sprayed coffee all over my monitor when Frost claimed they'll shut WS down before letting it go F2P. If NCSoft wants it to go F2P and casual friendly, that's where it's gonna go along with a basket full of pink slips.

 

Or maybe pigs do fly (them Chuas is craaaafty). Like you said, the F2P market is pretty saturated. Maybe some marketing genius at NCSoft thought or was convinced that there's untapped profit in niche gaming.

 

Time will tell. Meanwhile, I have a diversion while TOR figures out how to be productive on the pot.

 

Yeah, well, Bioware pretty much said the same thing about SWTOR going F2P. We'll see what happens in a year or so. Nobody seems to really know how to bottle the magic dust that makes a largely successful MMO. There are so many out there, most of them seem to figure out how to keep it going, at least. So far I think Carbine has done a lot of things right, and I find the game charming and full of character, the worlds are huge and explorable. I have that feeling of being overwhelmed by how much there is to do and see for the first time since I played an MMO for the first time. Maybe that's a negative for some, but a positive for me.

[rklontz]

Wildstar is more of an mmo than TOR ever will be. I mean the endgame is extremely impressive, like the devs are already thinking of adding more raids in about a month I believe. The PvP is very engaging and they actually care about their competitive communities - you know, the ones who are actually supposed to be the bridge to make the game successful. Casuals are supposed to be the pillars that support the bridge, unfortaunetly TOR has it flip flopped.

It's only been out a 2 days since you posted this and you have done endgame raids? Doesn't sound like it's going to have much longevity.

[Amera]

Always been skeptical when a company says "we only need x subs" to keep the lights on. It's very difficult for any team to resist investor pressure, and even worse when they are a subsidiary of a giant publishing corp. If management wants them to swap models, they will.

 

The only big exception to that from the recent game flurry is ESO, just because Zenimax is a private company and won't be facing the same types of pressure (they are also banking on the console release - the PC version of the game has clearly just been an extended "beta").

 

That said, if Carbine has been stubborn enough to design their game around Blizzard design docs from 2007, they'll probably hold on as long as they can.

[chuixupu]

That said, if Carbine has been stubborn enough to design their game around Blizzard design docs from 2007, they'll probably hold on as long as they can.

 

Other than the questing style, there's very little in common with WoW. Not the combat, not the world or character design, not the crafting, the armor, the stats, the mechanics not...well, anything. SWTOR has far, far more in common with WoW than Wildstar does on every level.

[Projawa]

Other than the questing style, there's very little in common with WoW. Not the combat, not the world or character design, not the crafting, the armor, the stats, the mechanics not...well, anything. SWTOR has far, far more in common with WoW than Wildstar does on every level.

 

It's endgame is what people commonly associate with WoW circa 2005-2007

Grindy, big attunement trees, large raid sizes for the sake of large sizes.

WS and TOR are derivatives of WOW.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Projawa

[Trevormortis]

Don't listen to a blind defender... about anything... because they are always full of hyperbole, posts that bait, etc etc

 

LOL wha? If anything you've shown that you're the blind defender......like through all of your post history....

 

and anyways, why are you still here...shouldn't you be over on the WS forums trying to tell those people that think it sucks how good it is?

 

GO TO WS FORUMS AND TROLL THERE IF YOU LOVE IT SO MUCH....WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE...........PAYING BIOWARE.............STILL.............SERIOUSLY......

 

*********** trolls... Can't have a real conversation about actual game quality with people like this.

[Amera]

Other than the questing style, there's very little in common with WoW. Not the combat, not the world or character design, not the crafting, the armor, the stats, the mechanics not...well, anything. SWTOR has far, far more in common with WoW than Wildstar does on every level.

 

Like another poster said, ability and class-design wise this game has a lot more in common with WoW to the point of being incredibly derivative.

 

But the actual structure of the elder game in Wildstar is pulled right from the shelves of vanilla/TBC era wow raiding: attunements, difficult heroics, massive gating, competitive arena, horrible repair bills, tedious questing design, you name it.

 

I mean, their marketing has been very clear at directly targeting disaffected wow players who hate the idea of raids being accessible.

[Trevormortis]

Like another poster said, ability and class-design wise this game has a lot more in common with WoW to the point of being incredibly derivative.

 

But the actual structure of the elder game in Wildstar is pulled right from the shelves of vanilla/TBC era wow raiding: attunements, difficult heroics, massive gating, competitive arena, horrible repair bills, tedious questing design, you name it.

 

I mean, their marketing has been very clear at directly targeting disaffected wow players who hate the idea of raids being accessible.

 

This.

 

I loved all the gating and attunements in BC WoW. Don't think i would be up for that anymore though. Too much work for a video game for me. Oh well, guess I'm getting older and wiser these days

[chuixupu]

Don't listen to a blind defender... about anything... because they are always full of hyperbole, posts that bait, etc etc

 

I agree! Much like you.

 

Like another poster said, ability and class-design wise this game has a lot more in common with WoW to the point of being incredibly derivative.

 

I really don't see it. Are you actually playing it? Unless you mean there being a trinity function, which is common in most MMOs. The limited action bar with unlimited builds, the advanced ability choices, the AMP system, none of that is like WoW or how WoW ever was, nor is the non-targeting combat. It's much more like GW2 but with a trinity.

 

Edit: Nevermind, it just occurred to me that you mean SWTOR. So...

 

But the actual structure of the elder game in Wildstar is pulled right from the shelves of vanilla/TBC era wow raiding: attunements, difficult heroics, massive gating, competitive arena, horrible repair bills, tedious questing design, you name it.

 

Which people have often complained out about SWTOR as well, minus attunements. I haven't experienced the attunements and stuff yet, so I can't comment, but WoW certainly wasn't the first and only game to invent them, and as far as I'm concerned, as long as the actual content is fun, I'll deal with it. What gets me burned out on WoW and SWTOR is running out of new content. It's almost like I need to have multiple games now just to have something to play when one MMO is in the development phase.

Edited June 12, 2014 by chuixupu

[chuixupu]

Not that I really care if anyone hasn't any interest in the aesthetics of the game, but I just want to say that the graphics and animations are anything BUT crude, they're quite fluid and well-designed, and the amount of movement in everything the character models do is quite complex and varied. But I'm used to people mistaking stylized design for crudeness in pretty much every avenue of art media I've been around. Such is the plight of being surrounded by realism snobs in pop culture. Funny how the problem is reversed in fine art.

[cymonguk]

To be fair the stylized design makes it easy to slate it as crude, especially as the graphics do look like something from 10 years ago in terms of style (not quality), the fact that the optimisation is horrendous doesn't help. It is also likely to split people down the middle, its not my ideal style, but I can see how some people will just hate it.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

If you think Treek was the best thing that ever happend to SWTOR then Wildstar is for you.

[chuixupu]

To be fair the stylized design makes it easy to slate it as crude, especially as the graphics do look like something from 10 years ago in terms of style (not quality), the fact that the optimisation is horrendous doesn't help. It is also likely to split people down the middle, its not my ideal style, but I can see how some people will just hate it.

 

And some people love it. I actually like the idea of playing in what looks kind of like a Pixar world. I don't really get much out of realism in games unless it's a gritty FPS, but I really loved the moving comic book style of the Walking Dead game.

Oddly enough, Wildstar runs perfectly fine on my computer right out of the gate...while I still get low FPS in many zones and 16-mans in swtor. I feel like Carbine's got a lot of time to smooth out the edges there, but I don't think we'll ever see any significant improvements to the servers or client for swtor at this point. I've given up on cross server queuing or any large-scale pvp happening. The fact that they have to roll back the 16-man queuing because it was crashing the servers was a bit of a sobering moment of how inadequate their tech is.

[Amera]

I think a lot of people don't realize how horrible the elder game system is yet since they aren't there, but I have a few ex-raiding friends in big wow guilds (Blood Legion, etc) and their rants are pretty amusing. Like, aside from the crippling bugs, the amount of hoops people are going to have to jump through to do anything puts WoW to shame. Maybe Carbine will nerf it before the masses get there, but anyone who expects to have remotely puggable group content, even just small dungeons, is in for a huge surprise. Almost everything in the game is designed to be incredibly elitist, for better or worse.

 

That said, I completely agree on the multiple game thing. There's no game on the market that produces anywhere near enough content for people who play a game daily. And I don't mean 40+ hours a week - even mid-range players can exhaust everything very quickly. Thankfully there's a huge selection of f2p games these days.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Amera

[ghoul_drool]

Almost everything in the game is designed to be incredibly elitist, for better or worse.

 

And therein lies a big problem, I think. Once all the casual gamers that are playing bump into all that gated content and leave, we'll see how many 'harcore' gamers will be left.

[Projawa]

I think a lot of people don't realize how horrible the elder game system is yet since they aren't there, but I have a few ex-raiding friends in big wow guilds (Blood Legion, etc) and their rants are pretty amusing. Like, aside from the crippling bugs, the amount of hoops people are going to have to jump through to do anything puts WoW to shame. Maybe Carbine will nerf it before the masses get there, but anyone who expects to have remotely puggable group content, even just small dungeons, is in for a huge surprise. Almost everything in the game is designed to be incredibly elitist, for better or worse.

 

That said, I completely agree on the multiple game thing. There's no game on the market that produces anywhere near enough content for people who play a game daily. And I don't mean 40+ hours a week - even mid-range players can exhaust everything very quickly. Thankfully there's a huge selection of f2p games these days.

 

And if they do, the elitists playing that game will b7tch and moan that Carbine is catering to the casuals and destroying the very fabric of what makes WS different, caving in to publisher demands, jumping the shark, etc.But if they don't, they risk hordes of casuals fleeing the game. Since casuals = money train, NCSoft will force them to hit the casualizer button which cycles us back to my first sentence: crying elitists.

 

It's a catch-22 decision that we've seen in every themepark MMO that's still in business. I remember seeing this exact thing in old school WoW starting in 2006 which they've continued to this day. Devs make stuff more accessible, elitists cry foul, the elitist's groupies join in the chorus line even though they know less than sh7t., game gets reamed with bad press. Needless to say the forums got pretty toxic with all that elitism oozing and sliming around.

 

Same old, nothing new to see, move along.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Projawa

[Projawa]

And therein lies a big problem, I think. Once all the casual gamers that are playing bump into all that gated content and leave, we'll see how many 'harcore' gamers will be left.

 

Carbine knows that a lot of the college kids with lots of time these days weren't old enough to experience old school style gated endgame from the UO/EQ/classic-WOW days. So all that stuff sounds fresh, new and cool to the teeners and anyone who never actually did that stuff which is why WS is designed as a rehash of the old days. But especially the teeners who are already all angtsy about life, have lots of time/energy, and want to prove+validate+find themselves. Since they haven't yet had a chance to do so in real life, they project all that on whatever game offers some semblence of achievement or hierarchical elitist structure.

 

I'd rather spend my time actually doing the raid/dungeon than going through a convoluted repititious gating process designed to increase the drag coefficient of completing what little content they actually have. That goes too for herding cats in groups of 20-40 which isn't fun or time efficient.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Projawa