Darth Bane's new canon

[DeltaBos]

 

Er, wait a second... Leland Chee is still in charge of the Star Wars canon (as a member of the Lucasfilm Story Group, jointly established by Lucas and Disney to unify, codify, and oversee future additions to the canon). I guess that means that pretty much nothing has changed, except that the current materiel after Ep VI is going to be rewritten completely.

 

As someone put it earlier, "cannon really doesn't mean anything to true fans, most fans ignore a lot of what is and isn't 'cannon'". For me, EVERY piece of EU material, for better or worse, is MY cannon and the crap that Disney spawns is part of DISNEY cannon.

[Beniboybling]

As someone put it earlier, "cannon really doesn't mean anything to true fans, most fans ignore a lot of what is and isn't 'cannon'". For me, EVERY piece of EU material, for better or worse, is MY cannon and the crap that Disney spawns is part of DISNEY cannon.

The crap that Disney spawns? What if its good, then what will you do?

 

Eat your foot me thinks.

[Ventessel]

As someone put it earlier, "cannon really doesn't mean anything to true fans, most fans ignore a lot of what is and isn't 'cannon'". For me, EVERY piece of EU material, for better or worse, is MY cannon and the crap that Disney spawns is part of DISNEY cannon.

 

I'm glad we have an artillery expert on hand to discuss cannons! However, as for caNon...

[DeltaBos]

I'm glad we have an artillery expert on hand to discuss cannons! However, as for caNon...

 

I wonder who's bright idea it was to abbreviate 'continuity' or whatever as 'cannon' in the first place. There has to be a better abbreviation for that.

[Fyurii]

I wonder who's bright idea it was to abbreviate 'continuity' or whatever as 'cannon' in the first place. There has to be a better abbreviation for that.

 

Probably someone who knew that canon is not an abbreviation of continuity. (I couldn't resist).

 

The reason behind calling it canon instead of continuity is probably in the definitions for the word, the idea that it's a rule or law as opposed to just consistency of the lore.

[DeltaBos]

Probably someone who knew that canon is not an abbreviation of continuity. (I couldn't resist).

 

The reason behind calling it canon instead of continuity is probably in the definitions for the word, the idea that it's a rule or law as opposed to just consistency of the lore.

 

Thanks for that clarification. That raises another question though... what idiot decided to call military cannons... cannons, considering the definition?

[Fyurii]

Thanks for that clarification. That raises another question though... what idiot decided to call military cannons... cannons, considering the definition?

 

Wikipedia info on cannons, as in artillery.

 

Seems like it's the Italians that started calling cannons, cannons.

 

:EDIT:

 

Also note, that canon and cannon are different spellings for completely different words.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Fyurii

[Kaedusz]

Good riddance to all post ep 6 EU, which is gone.

 

But don't touch ANYTHING before episode 1.

 

''Moraband''(srsly?) was almost the last straw.But this ''the jedi defeated Bane'' shenanigans is going over the top.

 

The truth about these events is inside my Folder full of Star Wars ebooks,in the Bane section, and Disney can go *censored*.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Kaedusz

[Fyurii]

Good riddance to all post ep 6 EU, which is gone.

 

But don't touch ANYTHING before episode 1.

 

''Moraband''(srsly?) was almost the last straw.But this ''the jedi defeated Bane'' shenanigans is going over the top.

 

The truth about these events is inside my Folder full of Star Wars ebooks,in the Bane section, and Disney can go *censored*.

 

Moraband was Lucas' decision.

[OddballEasyEight]

Moraband was Lucas' decision.

 

Hopefully the last influence he'll have on the IP... that man has done nothing good since the original three movies... and even then you could see the bad decisions he made as he got more control of his IP... I mean ewoks? FFS!

Yes, we have him to thank for the original idea... but he should have left it at that.

 

I don't doubt that Disney will make a good job of this... You need only look at their recent success with the Marvel enterprise.

Pretty much everything after 2008 is their work. Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America, Avengers, Iron Man 3, Thor: Dark World and Captain America: Winter Soldier... It's all their doing.

Sure, a couple of those movies aren't stellar... but they are far from bad...

Definately lightyears away from the prequels...

 

I think Star Wars is in safe hands with Disney.

Oh and as for that guy with the signature wishing that Timothy Zahn directed a star wars movie...

 

In fact, I have a hard time coming up with a single author turned director that ended up doing a good job of it.

Edited June 22, 2014 by OddballEasyEight

[errant_knight]

Personally, I hope that the new canon that has yet to be written has the sith abandoning the rule of two. I find the sith of the old republic far more interesting than the sith post Bane. I'd also like it if the sith species was discovered to still exist in some remote place.

 

As for rewriting the existing canon, I'm more worried about them screwing with KOTOR lore than anything else.

[Ventessel]

Personally, I hope that the new canon that has yet to be written has the sith abandoning the rule of two. I find the sith of the old republic far more interesting than the sith post Bane. I'd also like it if the sith species was discovered to still exist in some remote place.

 

As for rewriting the existing canon, I'm more worried about them screwing with KOTOR lore than anything else.

 

Frankly, I don't think many people as Lucasarts really care that much about the KotOR Era stuff. The last thing that is really TRULY relevant for the Film Era is what happened with Bane and the establishment of the Rule of Two, and the subsequent thousand years of relative peace for the Jedi Order.

[Fyurii]

Lack of blind Lucas fanboy worship

 

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

 

Really though, Lucas was at his best when his peers kept him in check, instead of being surrounded by well paid Yes Men.

 

I think Star Wars is in safe hands with Disney.

Oh and as for that guy with the signature wishing that Timothy Zahn directed a star wars movie...

 

In fact, I have a hard time coming up with a single author turned director that ended up doing a good job of it.

 

I think Frank Miller is the best example of a bad author transitioning their own work into another medium.

I shudder to think what he'd have done with 300, and believe it would have been truly horrible.

His depiction of Batman after The Dark Knight Returns is about as far removed from Batman as Batman & Robin was from being a watchable film.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Fyurii

[DeltaBos]

Personally, I hope that the new canon that has yet to be written has the sith abandoning the rule of two. I find the sith of the old republic far more interesting than the sith post Bane. I'd also like it if the sith species was discovered to still exist in some remote place.

 

As for rewriting the existing canon, I'm more worried about them screwing with KOTOR lore than anything else.

 

Um, dude, Disney isn't rewriting any of their cannon, their scrapping it all and starting their own universe. Thankfully though that's just in the DU, not the SWU.

[errant_knight]

Um, dude, Disney isn't rewriting any of their cannon, their scrapping it all and starting their own universe. Thankfully though that's just in the DU, not the SWU.

 

Sure they are. They have a whole new department to steer the direction of all future conent--books comics games, all of it. That means there can be no future kotor unless they approve it and no 'modern' content that references past lore that isn't approved. wholesale retcon is entirely possible, although more likely in some cases than others.

[Rebel_Guy]

Canon is only so that people can't yell at continuity problems in the new movies if they want to bring a dead character back etc(doesn't have to be so drastic, just an example) without giving some bs explanation(so some idiot won't be able to walk in and say "nooope this happened in this book and it contradicts what happened here!")... Any EU book or comic still exists and much of the EU was never going to make it into a movie anyway... If you enjoyed that it's still there for you to read, re-read, make fan fiction... Whatever..

 

Given that the entire star wars universe is fiction there is no reason to get so butthurt that they just want to cover their possible continuity issues with the new content disney wants to make. (And btw canon is whatever the owner says it is sorry to break it to some of you, because that's all it is for anyway: continuity) If you want to get all worked up on what's real fake, and what's fake fake fine, but I felt it necessary for somebody to outright say all this... This is more directed at some of the very avid doomsday sayers of disney scrapping eu than to the OP of this thread though.

[Fyurii]

Um, dude, Disney isn't rewriting any of their cannon, their scrapping it all and starting their own universe. Thankfully though that's just in the DU, not the SWU.

 

They're not scrapping it all to start their own universe. That's a franchise reboot, and Star Wars isn't in need of a franchise reboot. (Not yet anyway.)

They're just replacing the post RoTJ EU.

[OddballEasyEight]

I still find it amusing that people thought that the EU was "canon" in any way...

Sure, there were "levels of canon" before disney took over, but the only thing that actually mattered and was considered safe was the movies and the TV-show...

Same as now, only difference is that disney aren't pretending that they care about the EU.

 

Lucas changed stuff that was established in the EU plenty of times, forcing tons of revisions to make the EU fit with what he did with movies and tv-shows.

This way we won't get that. Eveything that is released from now on is Canon (with a capitol C) and will not be subject to change at the whim of a fat old man with a penchant for meddling in things that should be left alone.

[DeltaBos]

They're not scrapping it all to start their own universe. That's a franchise reboot, and Star Wars isn't in need of a franchise reboot. (Not yet anyway.)

They're just replacing the post RoTJ EU.

 

They specifically said that people like Revan are know in their "legends" catalog, meaning that the pre PM universe is getting scrapped too. They SPECIFICALLY said that EVERYTHING, save the movies and that animated tv-show, is OUT of Disney cannon. They were asked about SWTOR being cannon and they said they haven't decided about that yet but for sure everything else is not in Disney cannon.

[Fyurii]

They specifically said that people like Revan are know in their "legends" catalog, meaning that the pre PM universe is getting scrapped too. They SPECIFICALLY said that EVERYTHING, save the movies and that animated tv-show, is OUT of Disney cannon. They were asked about SWTOR being cannon and they said they haven't decided about that yet but for sure everything else is not in Disney cannon.

 

Legends is still canon, it's just the equivalent of what was everything below G and T Canon, just sandwiched together.

You do know what a legend is, don't you?

 

As hard as you rail against the truth, there is not going to be two separate universes. That's entirely petulant fan reaction that serves only to demean the person saying that.

 

I still find it amusing that people thought that the EU was "canon" in any way...

Sure, there were "levels of canon" before disney took over, but the only thing that actually mattered and was considered safe was the movies and the TV-show...

Same as now, only difference is that disney aren't pretending that they care about the EU.

 

That was mainly so that anything that might contradict or clash with the films (then the TV show as well) could be rectified/clarified, and also to facilitate a greater level of continuity between different writers. It didn't always work (some writers being complete ego-centric f******ds), and it allowed Lucas to pick & choose things he might like from other people's contributions to his work.

 

It was basically a way to have other people expand upon his creation whilst keeping the money rolling in to his pockets with minimal effort on his part. Quite a savvy businessman, excluding getting duped into financial schemes.

[DeltaBos]

Legends is still canon, it's just the equivalent of what was everything below G and T Canon, just sandwiched together.

You do know what a legend is, don't you?

 

As hard as you rail against the truth, there is not going to be two separate universes. That's entirely petulant fan reaction that serves only to demean the person saying that.

 

Straight out of Wookieepedia: "the Expanded Universe is no longer considered canon and was re-termed as the "Legends" brand. Most Star Wars material released after April 25, 2014—with some exceptions—is composed in collaboration with the Lucasfilm Story Group, making it part of the "new canon."" So yeah, Disney really just took a sh*t on all the fans and said f*ck you our cannon is going to be whatever the hell we want. Thankfully that's just Disney cannon and Star Wars cannon, which was created and NO LONGER OWNED by GL. Sorry but I, and many others, will NEVER accept Disney cannon as "real" cannon, the EU will always be my cannon, and there's plenty of people who agree. Viewing them as two separate universes is simply the most rational way to deal with this blatant slap to the face Disney has dealt us.

[Fyurii]

Straight out of Wookieepedia: "the Expanded Universe is no longer considered canon and was re-termed as the "Legends" brand. Most Star Wars material released after April 25, 2014—with some exceptions—is composed in collaboration with the Lucasfilm Story Group, making it part of the "new canon."" So yeah, Disney really just took a sh*t on all the fans and said f*ck you our cannon is going to be whatever the hell we want. Thankfully that's just Disney cannon and Star Wars cannon, which was created and NO LONGER OWNED by GL. Sorry but I, and many others, will NEVER accept Disney cannon as "real" cannon, the EU will always be my cannon, and there's plenty of people who agree. Viewing them as two separate universes is simply the most rational way to deal with this blatant slap to the face Disney has dealt us.

 

Here is the actual statement on an official Star Wars site, and it does say that the EU is not being discarded, and that future writers will be able to utilise it.

Elements from the EU that are already featured in existing movies and cartoons, and also in Rebels will still be entirely canon.

Since TOR (the timeframe it takes place) has been referenced in The Clone Wars by Plo Koon, (compares the combat in the Clone Wars itself to the Great Galactic War) it's more than likely that TOR itself will be kept canon.

 

Also take note that any future works will be considered as canon, and that can include any time period of currently known Star Wars Universe history.

 

Seeing them as two universes isn't more rational. The rational and logical thing is to accept that it's changed and live with it.

Simply giving it the finger and saying "Disney Universe sucks, EU for life" is as absurd as denying that the prequel films weren't well made.

What makes it worse though, is treating it like it's a bad thing. For all the "true" and so called "pure" Star Wars fans know, this could make a lot of what was bad and ridiculous, be replaced with something good.

Hell, it might even help to prevent the power creep of Jedi and Sith that leads to ridiculous "over 9000" displays of power.

 

In all honesty though, I think most of the EU should have been treated as an entirely separate entity from the Movies by Lucas Licencing. Make it more of an alternate universe. Specifically the post RoTJ materials, but also spawning more things like the Infinities stories, or even continuing them to an extent.

It would have lifted so many restrictions upon writers and let more fans see alternate takes on events, big and small, that wouldn't interfere with many of the long held "truths" of Star Wars lore.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Fyurii

[errant_knight]

When they had no intention of making more movies, the EU could exist as is, but they really didn't have much choice once they decided to make more in the 'modern' time period. Just imagine trying to write a movie that takes place 30 years after the original trilogy with every moment of the characters and their offspring's lives predetermined--and sometimes predetermined of fairly *** ways. It would be less than fascinating, not to mention annoying to have to incorporate some pretty bad ideas.

 

This way, they can pluck out the good ideas and, in doing so, make them canon, while leaving the bad ideas behind. Legends is a pretty good solution as there's often a grain of truth in a legend that gets distorted over time and repetition, while some myths are simply allegorical or wishful thinking. A wide range of myths can exist, with only some of them being actual history (canon).

 

Fans of Kotor/swtor are lucky in that the old republic legends are less likely to be contradicted in the new movies than EU writings that take place in the movie time period and may even be affirmed in mentions of ancient history. Just because something isn't canon now, doesn't mean it never will be.

 

We all have favorite 'legends' that we hope make it into canon and will be disappointed if they don't, but I don't see what else they could have done here. Ideally, they would have been far more careful about what they allowed to be written in the first place, but they weren't, so here we are.

[OddballEasyEight]

When they had no intention of making more movies, the EU could exist as is, but they really didn't have much choice once they decided to make more in the 'modern' time period. Just imagine trying to write a movie that takes place 30 years after the original trilogy with every moment of the characters and their offspring's lives predetermined--and sometimes predetermined of fairly *** ways. It would be less than fascinating, not to mention annoying to have to incorporate some pretty bad ideas.

 

This way, they can pluck out the good ideas and, in doing so, make them canon, while leaving the bad ideas behind. Legends is a pretty good solution as there's often a grain of truth in a legend that gets distorted over time and repetition, while some myths are simply allegorical or wishful thinking. A wide range of myths can exist, with only some of them being actual history (canon).

 

Fans of Kotor/swtor are lucky in that the old republic legends are less likely to be contradicted in the new movies than EU writings that take place in the movie time period and may even be affirmed in mentions of ancient history. Just because something isn't canon now, doesn't mean it never will be.

 

We all have favorite 'legends' that we hope make it into canon and will be disappointed if they don't, but I don't see what else they could have done here. Ideally, they would have been far more careful about what they allowed to be written in the first place, but they weren't, so here we are.

 

Finally! Someone who gets it!