redhoodrider Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 Have you considered defecting to the republic? How many times do you want me to say it? There is a way to be ethically questionable, vengeful and feared without being a soulless Mary Sue. That's like saying that The Punisher should join Carnage because he kills people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I can't really say I was a fan of Kathe Niar...she was pretty bland to me...barely more interesting than a quest giving box. It would have been nicer if she had something going for her. I really enjoyed Lord Cytharat though, I would have liked seeing more of him, even if I wasn't going to romance him. I'm not really into romancing NPC's...I think romanceables should be companions. We should have the option to buy/earn new companions that are romanceable and who have interesting stories, perhaps a solo-able quest chain to get them. That would be marvelous. The other thing would be to have different race skins for them, so that we could make them however we want them to be. Oh heck, why not let our companions be able to use the makeover booth, just like our main toons? So yeah, I agree, yuck to Kathe Niar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Did you skip Imperial Taris or something? Niar was targeting legitimate military targets with civilian collateral. Taris is about targeting civilians specifically to break the Republic's will to fight. I don't recall that woman being on Taris. I'll have to recheck that. Only Kathe Niar that sticks out in my memory is that boring woman from Makeb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I don't recall that woman being on Taris. I'll have to recheck that. Only Kathe Niar that sticks out in my memory is that boring woman from Makeb. What I meant was that, on Makeb, Niar was targeting enemy combatants with her suggestion(though the OP objects to the significant civilian casualties this entails, suggesting that Niar is unusually evil for an Imperial). On Taris, the player participates in a campaign that actively targets civilians as its goal. I doubt Marr or any member of the Dark Council would blanch at Niar's suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 As far as I'm concerned Kathe Niar is vaguely likeable. Thana Vesh though. I HATE THANA VESH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 As far as I'm concerned Kathe Niar is vaguely likeable. Thana Vesh though. I HATE THANA VESH I agree I hate her so much. I guess that means shes a good memorable character that I can actually remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Projawa Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) Niar and Cytherat were both bland characters but I didn't find either annoying though Niar sounded pretty depressed much of the time. What I find more bothersome is a lot of the Imperial writing in this game is American dialogue with British accents. Obviously it's because the writers are American but the colloquialisms, catch phrases, sentence structures are different from how Brits actually talk. I can't really fault them. Downton Abbey is penned by Brits yet even its dialogue has a lot of anachronisms and Americanisms that didn't exist in that era. The show is designed for mass market international appeal and most viewers won't be attuned to those oddities so I can understand them jumping the shark a bit. Edited June 2, 2014 by Projawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theUndead Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Still, half the population is still a mass genocide. And it's not like she went through any development to become the way she was...She was constantly telling me to let people die, or kill people or sacrifice folks. She was a cold hearted ice queen at the start and a cold hearted ice queen at the end. Not to mention she completely lied to me about the ground quakes. Actually she was quite taken aback if the player made dark sided options. I recall her several times flinching and asking if that is the best course of action. It shows me she DOES in fact have a conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) Actually she was quite taken aback if the player made dark sided options. I recall her several times flinching and asking if that is the best course of action. It shows me she DOES in fact have a conscience. It's a 50/50 for the most part with Niar. On one hand, she supports... - Torturing, maiming and killing most of the mercenaries who survived the incident at the drill shaft where Isotope-5 was first discovered. - Leaving the Makeb uprising led by Pollus Avesta to be slain by the Regulators. - Kill everyone on sight in Gravity-Hook Seven. On the other hand, she's content with... - Not destroying the planet, even if it meant taking most of the Regulators and the Hutts with it. - Sparing Solida Hesk and taking advantage of her position, plus the wealth of information she possesses. - Aiding Lord Cytharat and her team escaping. EDIT: And I also hate Thana Vesh... No wonder the Empire is loosing the war. Edited June 2, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theUndead Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 It's a 50/50 for the most part with Niar. On one hand, she supports... - Torturing, maiming and killing most of the mercenaries who survived the incident at the drill shaft where Isotope-5 was first discovered. - Leaving the Makeb uprising led by Pollus Avesta to be slain by the Regulators. - Kill everyone on sight in Gravity-Hook Seven. On the other hand, she's content with... - Not destroying the planet, even if it meant taking most of the Regulators and the Hutts with it. - Sparing Solida Hesk and taking advantage of her position, plus the wealth of information she possesses. - Aiding Lord Cytharat and her team escaping. EDIT: And I also hate Thana Vesh... No wonder the Empire is loosing the war. Not that I disagree with you in anyway but are you disagreeing with my assessment or not? Not arguing generally asking. Oh btw I love Thana Vesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) Not that I disagree with you in anyway but are you disagreeing with my assessment or not? Not arguing generally asking. Oh btw I love Thana Vesh Not my intention either way really. Just pointing out separate instances in the game where she - depending on the situation - can be absolutely ruthless or a bit more practical; A mark of a good Intelligence officer in a way. Edited June 2, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theUndead Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Not my intention either way really. Just pointing out separate instances in the game where she - depending on the situation - can be absolutely ruthless or a bit more practical; A mark of a good Intelligence officer in a way. Fair enough. And I agree the fact she can be both shows an intricate character in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 let the hate flow through you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhoodrider Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 let the hate flow through you... ...And I already found Anakin relatable to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Fair enough. And I agree the fact she can be both shows an intricate character in my view. Indeed. The fact she... Dies at the end and there's not a darn thing you can do about it makes it feel the more memorable; Yet another case in point where having no choice whatsoever works at the behest of the character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhoodrider Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 Indeed. The fact she... Dies at the end and there's not a darn thing you can do about it makes it feel the more memorable; Yet another case in point where having no choice whatsoever works at the behest of the character. Dude, I was hoping I could force choke her to death at the end, and I play a mostly Light Side Sith Juggernaut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Dude, I was hoping I could force choke her to death at the end, and I play a mostly Light Side Sith Juggernaut. Can't see why but to each his own I guess. Again, superb writing and voice acting all around in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theUndead Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Indeed. The fact she... Dies at the end and there's not a darn thing you can do about it makes it feel the more memorable; Yet another case in point where having no choice whatsoever works at the behest of the character. Agreed and well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 The issue with the OP's hate for Kathe Niar is that half the Sith I met during my playthroughs were more evil than her. I stopped caring about whether Imperials were evil when I was on Dromund Kaas. I started caring about whether they were pragmatic and good at their jobs. Despite being captured, Kathe Niar did well for a former desk jockey. This was the biggest Operation she'd ever been on and she did decently enough that I forgave her for spilling the beans to the Archon (my Sith Warrior did want to punch her in the face when he discovered she'd leaked that info, but her forgave her after she pointed out the secret door). I've killed Thana Vesh (aka Titanic Vain girl) 6 times. SIX TIMES. And every time I've Afterburnt/Shadowplayed her death so I can watch it over and over again for my pleasure:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) How many times do you want me to say it? There is a way to be ethically questionable, vengeful and feared without being a soulless Mary Sue. That's like saying that The Punisher should join Carnage because he kills people. I have officially no idea what all this hubbab is about. There are much bigger issues in SWTOR storytelling than Niar. The whole Makeb storyline was all kinds of bland and stupid, even more so since it was written for all classes at once, without individual viewpoints. I have no interest in even playing Makeb multiple times with my alts since it is so generic. Why do you care what a random imperial NPC says? Iirc you even get to discipline her at some point for what she says. She is not the one making the big decisions. I HATE THANA VESH Thana Vesh was a pretty good example of an average sith warrior. I thought she was more of a comical relief than anything? Edited June 2, 2014 by Karkais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Maniac Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) She constantly screws things up and makes costly mistakes, Constantly? About the only real error was getting captured, most of the others were either necessary risks or the usual dumb luck that happens in missions IIRC. she is genocidal and evil for no reason She does not want you to blow up the planet. She points out that, no, the Hutts haven't won -- the Empire still has one trick up its sleeve. If you then pull a "I will blow you all up unless you sod off", she'll say it was nice not killing the planet. Sure, she's almost certainly willing to do it if it's necessary. But I don't think it's something she's particularly looking forward to. When it comes to other evil deeds, she'll voice disapproval at murdering the first girl you see rather than recruiting her, and will be hesitant in allowing Lord Cytharat to die. When it comes to actions like torturing the Regulators or whoever to get them to stay away... you'll note they're actively your enemies. The other option, since you have no prison cells, is letting them go. It's not nice, but it's pragmatism talking there, not pointless evilness. Helping both sides in the citizens conflict thing is, again, in order to give more time to Empire (in what is already a risky operation). Out of curiosity, what does Malavai make of these decisions, affection-wise? she is a complete wimp who can't take care of herself, She's a command-type, not sure how battle-trained. When the rare competent Hutt comes sends a platoon after you while your best operative/also-commander is away, not much you can do. If this was a consistent thing, I'd be more inclined to insult her for it. and has the nerve to call my character soft for not blowing up an entire planet? "I'd have seen him fry, but it was nice, not killing the planet." That's the line I got (note that killing the Hutt is a separate option from the planet's fate). She didn't call me soft at all. Maybe her dialogue changes if you piss her off? Edited June 2, 2014 by Mr_Maniac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) I HATE THANA VESH I had just breezed my PT through Taris not an hour ago and decided I couldn't stand Thana one more time. (Plus I was already too overleveled). I mentioned in planet chat that I'd love the option, on a 2d playthrough, to just put a blaster to her head/saber through her gut, the moment she first appears in a cut scene. Honestly, she is so over-the-top that any character I've played Imp side would have shot her/stabbed her nearly at first meeting. Edited June 2, 2014 by thewitchdoctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 As far as I'm concerned Kathe Niar is vaguely likeable. Thana Vesh though. I HATE THANA VESH Lol! I did love pissing her off though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainot-keel Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 The issue with the OP's hate for Kathe Niar is that half the Sith I met during my playthroughs were more evil than her. I stopped caring about whether Imperials were evil when I was on Dromund Kaas. I started caring about whether they were pragmatic and good at their jobs. Despite being captured, Kathe Niar did well for a former desk jockey. This was the biggest Operation she'd ever been on and she did decently enough that I forgave her for spilling the beans to the Archon (my Sith Warrior did want to punch her in the face when he discovered she'd leaked that info, but her forgave her after she pointed out the secret door). I've killed Thana Vesh (aka Titanic Vain girl) 6 times. SIX TIMES. And every time I've Afterburnt/Shadowplayed her death so I can watch it over and over again for my pleasure:D I loved Katha Niar, actually. Too bad she dies regardless. *sobs* She got the job done considering the circumstances. After your own character, Darth Marr considered her the best thing to be there. Thana Vesh ? Incompetent, annoying insecure kid trying too hard. IIRC, even Vette approves Thana's early demise. Yup, she gets dead every time I play the Taris storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) I'm doing Imperial Makeb again a second time while leveling my Inquisitor. This time I'm enjoying the Kathe Niar character a lot more. Essentially, my Sorc is treating her like a peon and making her bend the knee at every opportunity. Quite the satisfying change from the b*tch Niar was when my Agent originally ran through the storyline way back when. Edited June 2, 2014 by DarthOvertone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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