JaredBartok Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Got it. So facing straight at the bulwark perhaps ~3m away such that the adds on either side are still within 4m (I could probably do trig for the exact distance but I'm too lazy) and also within the arc of the cone. When I've tried that one side add usually ends up outside the arc but I probably just haven't found the sweet spot yet. I also found a video of Stryvah on NiM Draxus. He seemed to stand "on top" of a side add facing the other two with the far add within 4m. It appeared that he had to be slightly in front of the add he was "on top" of to be within 4m of the far add, but the flamethrower seemed to go slightly behind him to hit the add he was "on top" of. Perhaps that is because he is still standing in the hit box of the add he was "on top" of so it the aoe damage "in the hitbox" still hit him even though the flames were pointing away from that add. That said, I noticed it only worked once and the second time in the video he only hit two adds so it still probably requires some precise positioning. I haven't tried this approach yet, but I'll test out both on a SM Draxus and figure out which is better for me. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkybyte Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 About how much DPS should a AP/Tactic with Dreadforged Gear be doing on a dummy? Whats the top end, since most parses on torparse are Pyro/Assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) About how much DPS should a AP/Tactic with Dreadforged Gear be doing on a dummy? Whats the top end, since most parses on torparse are Pyro/Assault. The best one I saw was 3486.05 by Battkt, who did it in this parse: http://www.torparse.com/a/559571/43/0/Overview His crit rating was a little high when he pulled it off, but he got incredibly lucky crits with it (46% pulse cannon 33% ion pulse and 50% fire pulse, and 53% mortar volley). If you can pull the rotation off without missing any cooldowns and get an average crit rate, you should be hitting ~3400dps in full, optimised, dread forged gear. Edited June 21, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateSoGross Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Zlena hit higher: http://www.torparse.com/a/679814/time/1400761625/1400761911/0/Overview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Zlena hit higher: http://www.torparse.com/a/679814/time/1400761625/1400761911/0/Overview Also has dread masters gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krev_Roo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Also has dread masters gear One implant! {when I did that} Haha. A whopping 6 base damage doesn't make that much of a difference in my opinion, unfortunately it really just comes down to crit luck... I believe with full Dread Forged 3495 dps (essentially what really should be 3.5k) is the optimal but unrealistic "limit" that the DF gear can achieve in a parse. There are two ways of getting close to that and I know my math wasn't perfect but it should be achieved with no crit in your gear or a certain amount between 180-250crit (the math I used supported 234 as that amount, but it's obviously debatable and ultimately doesn't matter). Realistically, I found in full Dread Forged, that I would constantly hit closer to a total average of 3450dps on good parses (To support with the one implant which I don't believe adds much, I generally had higher ones being at 3478-3485dps). So yeah, essentially if you don't mess up you'll easily do more than 3.4k on your parses with full dread forged. If your unlucky you'll sometimes be in the 3330 range. Edited June 25, 2014 by Krev_Roo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Question: is it worth spreading gut on multiple targets in a PvP scenario before pulse canon? Also is pulse canon worth using on a bleedig target before building up pulse generator in the same situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 One implant! {when I did that} Haha. A whopping 6 base damage doesn't make that much of a difference in my opinion, unfortunately it really just comes down to crit luck... I believe with full Dread Forged 3495 dps (essentially what really should be 3.5k) is the optimal but unrealistic "limit" that the DF gear can achieve in a parse. There are two ways of getting close to that and I know my math wasn't perfect but it should be achieved with no crit in your gear or a certain amount between 180-250crit (the math I used supported 234 as that amount, but it's obviously debatable and ultimately doesn't matter). Realistically, I found in full Dread Forged, that I would constantly hit closer to a total average of 3450dps on good parses (To support with the one implant which I don't believe adds much, I generally had higher ones being at 3478-3485dps). So yeah, essentially if you don't mess up you'll easily do more than 3.4k on your parses with full dread forged. If your unlucky you'll sometimes be in the 3330 range. I decided to 1-up you - http://www.torparse.com/a/715443/time/1404523137/1404523421/0/Overview Question: is it worth spreading gut on multiple targets in a PvP scenario before pulse canon? Also is pulse canon worth using on a bleedig target before building up pulse generator in the same situation? PvP is a lot different to PvP. For example, when going for PvP, you'd take a point in hamstring because the slow is actually useful, and you'd probably sacrifice the 2 points in heavy stock as well for more points in tactics (as far as Im aware, the optimal PvP build is something along the lines of 6/40/0 for tactics), and fights tend to be shorter, allowing more ammo dumps. Then again, the bleed on gut is considered fluff damage, and your better off just putting it on one guy, unloading the pulse cannon into everything you can, blasting a mortar volley into everyone, (the 2 channeled abilities done while whitebarred or at least under hold the line) before obliterating a main target with a combination of shoulder cannon, fire pulse, auto-crit high impact bolt, high crit chance stockstrike, and then Ion Pulse till it dies. Which is usually 2 hits ago. In other words, only bother using gut on the primary target in PvP, or on a combo of tank + guardee so the tank gets 1.5 guts (which is what Gut would have to do to be worth it for multi-target in PvP), as it only buffs you, not everyone. Unless there aren't any healers, then gutting everyone can be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 PvP is a lot different to PvP. For example, when going for PvP, you'd take a point in hamstring because the slow is actually useful, and you'd probably sacrifice the 2 points in heavy stock as well for more points in tactics (as far as Im aware, the optimal PvP build is something along the lines of 6/40/0 for tactics), and fights tend to be shorter, allowing more ammo dumps. Then again, the bleed on gut is considered fluff damage, and your better off just putting it on one guy, unloading the pulse cannon into everything you can, blasting a mortar volley into everyone, (the 2 channeled abilities done while whitebarred or at least under hold the line) before obliterating a main target with a combination of shoulder cannon, fire pulse, auto-crit high impact bolt, high crit chance stockstrike, and then Ion Pulse till it dies. Which is usually 2 hits ago. In other words, only bother using gut on the primary target in PvP, or on a combo of tank + guardee so the tank gets 1.5 guts (which is what Gut would have to do to be worth it for multi-target in PvP), as it only buffs you, not everyone. Unless there aren't any healers, then gutting everyone can be useful. Thank you. I'll carry on as I have been then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxSHOONYxx Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 So I only have 1 set of gear because I'm poor, but since I switch between Tactics and assault on a fight by fight basis should I get between the two suggested crit values of 199 and 309? Currently I have 273 but have the mods/enhancements to go up or down. Is sitting between the two good enough or should I really invest in a couple of extra pieces and swap them as well as my spec? Also what is your take on Nimble 36A versus Nimble 36? is the extra Aim worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 So I only have 1 set of gear because I'm poor, but since I switch between Tactics and assault on a fight by fight basis should I get between the two suggested crit values of 199 and 309? Currently I have 273 but have the mods/enhancements to go up or down. Is sitting between the two good enough or should I really invest in a couple of extra pieces and swap them as well as my spec? Also what is your take on Nimble 36A versus Nimble 36? is the extra Aim worth it? Since the only fight you would use tactics in but not for AoE is brontes, You may as well run the crit for Assault, as the higher your uptime for AoE on adds, the more crit is worth. I dont have the maths on me right now but I believe it capped at about 20 MORE crit than Assault in dread forged, though that needed 5 targets at 100% uptime That and while crit does reduce your max DPS, it improves your consistancy. In fact, I typically just use my Assault gear for tactics, only swapping a bit for brontes with the belt, bracer, and offhand crystal going from crit to power. As for 36A vs 36, the 36 is always superior to its unlettered variant. A 36A is superior to a 34 mod though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxSHOONYxx Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Since the only fight you would use tactics in but not for AoE is brontes, You may as well run the crit for Assault, as the higher your uptime for AoE on adds, the more crit is worth. I dont have the maths on me right now but I believe it capped at about 20 MORE crit than Assault in dread forged, though that needed 5 targets at 100% uptime That and while crit does reduce your max DPS, it improves your consistancy. In fact, I typically just use my Assault gear for tactics, only swapping a bit for brontes with the belt, bracer, and offhand crystal going from crit to power. As for 36A vs 36, the 36 is always superior to its unlettered variant. A 36A is superior to a 34 mod though Neat. That's good to know. Would that also hold true for dread master gear as well? Since Assault could use 400-500 crit? I guess I'm asking if they both scale at the same rate. Currently I only have the offhand, but for future reference. Also for dread master gear, is there ever a point where the DR in surge would make it worth it to get alacrity instead? I seem to remember surge getting ridiculous DR fairly early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Neat. That's good to know. Would that also hold true for dread master gear as well? Since Assault could use 400-500 crit? I guess I'm asking if they both scale at the same rate. Currently I only have the offhand, but for future reference. Also for dread master gear, is there ever a point where the DR in surge would make it worth it to get alacrity instead? I seem to remember surge getting ridiculous DR fairly early. Due to the nature of the 15 second period of almost all of Tactics damage, Alacrity's benefits are entirely for burst (no effect on sustained) until you can get it to 10%, allowing you 1 extra ion pulse and 1 extra hammer shots every 30 seconds. I'd probably use some in PvP to increase its burst capabilities, but in order to synergize better with assaults gear I tend to stay away from it for now. And yeah, the difference between assault + tactics for crit in single target DPS is 2 mods 1 crystal, while the AoE situations are pretty close together for crit requirements. Im still yet to get my dread masters offhand, so my observations for optimal crit in dread masters are entirely theoretical but backed up by maths (and the maths worked perfectly fine with dread forged gear), but the situation of more targets = more benefit from crit will still come into play. Why does this happen though? More targets = more damage from pulse cannon + mortar volley, while less of your damage will come from the auto-crit high impact bolt, effectively improving Crit Rating till it gets to the max targets situation Edited July 10, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxSHOONYxx Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Due to the nature of the 15 second period of almost all of Tactics damage, Alacrity's benefits are entirely for burst (no effect on sustained) until you can get it to 10%, allowing you 1 extra ion pulse and 1 extra hammer shots every 30 seconds. I'd probably use some in PvP to increase its burst capabilities, but in order to synergize better with assaults gear I tend to stay away from it for now. And yeah, the difference between assault + tactics for crit in single target DPS is 2 mods 1 crystal, while the AoE situations are pretty close together for crit requirements. Im still yet to get my dread masters offhand, so my observations for optimal crit in dread masters are entirely theoretical but backed up by maths (and the maths worked perfectly fine with dread forged gear), but the situation of more targets = more benefit from crit will still come into play. Why does this happen though? More targets = more damage from pulse cannon + mortar volley, while less of your damage will come from the auto-crit high impact bolt, effectively improving Crit Rating till it gets to the max targets situation Thanks for your answers! You are helping an adequate Powertech/Vanguard (me) get better and better, while helping me understand more of the game. I'll work on getting extra bracers and Belts that I can switch out since I'm currently on NiM brontes. (But those augment costs! 120k each! plus the kits!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxSHOONYxx Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Another question if you don't mind Currently I'm on NiM brontes, my group consistently gets through the clock phase but the first droid is usually extremely close. Since we're a melee class with no gap closer (and no way to know which direction to head to before hand) would you suggest blowing cooldowns and using mortar volley on the first droid, or popping hydraulics and just running over while spamming hammer shots and sticky grenade? Also for Brontes' "fire and forget" do you happen to know if the lift she does counts as a stun, thereby reducing the damage dealt by it by 30%? Or is it just a delayed knock back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 Another question if you don't mind Currently I'm on NiM brontes, my group consistently gets through the clock phase but the first droid is usually extremely close. Since we're a melee class with no gap closer (and no way to know which direction to head to before hand) would you suggest blowing cooldowns and using mortar volley on the first droid, or popping hydraulics and just running over while spamming hammer shots and sticky grenade? Also for Brontes' "fire and forget" do you happen to know if the lift she does counts as a stun, thereby reducing the damage dealt by it by 30%? Or is it just a delayed knock back? Well your guild is doing slightly better than mine there, we pretty much wipe on the first droid by 200hp each time (thats what we get for running 3 melee). I originally tried mortar volley, but the damage done was much less than the times I actively ran in with hydraulics. Ive got a dread touched offhand sitting on an alt now so when gree comes back we should have it. Though I do know fire and forget DOES count as a stun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxSHOONYxx Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) TAC! super important question! How would tanking Brontes in tactics with Ion cell work? With the amount of AOE in the fight (hand slams, arcing assault, orbs, kephass laser face, supremacy) it would seem like running Ion-Tactics would be a decent thing to try for tanking. Not to mention I bet the threat generation would be better with fire pulse and gut. You have any idea, or should I try it for myself? Edit: since after 5 minutes after I asked our tank DC'd I tried it out, in dps gear with a shield, full AP in ion cell, I took less damage than our Sin tank in full dread forged so Edited August 4, 2014 by xxSHOONYxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) TAC! super important question! How would tanking Brontes in tactics with Ion cell work? With the amount of AOE in the fight (hand slams, arcing assault, orbs, kephass laser face, supremacy) it would seem like running Ion-Tactics would be a decent thing to try for tanking. Not to mention I bet the threat generation would be better with fire pulse and gut. You have any idea, or should I try it for myself? Edit: since after 5 minutes after I asked our tank DC'd I tried it out, in dps gear with a shield, full AP in ion cell, I took less damage than our Sin tank in full dread forged so It worked a lot better back in patch 2.5 because it had pulse generator Anyway, its resource management is horrendous, its sustained threat is useless, and its mobility will make you cry. But it is so much tougher that even with all those problems, its worth it in a number of peoples opinions. Also a 40 second cooldown on energy shield is awesome Edited August 4, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxSHOONYxx Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 It worked a lot better back in patch 2.5 because it had pulse generator Anyway, its resource management is horrendous, its sustained threat is useless, and its mobility will make you cry. But it is so much tougher that even with all those problems, its worth it in a number of peoples opinions. Also a 40 second cooldown on energy shield is awesome Actually I noticed it had pretty decent resource management due to "into the fray". I'm not sure about threat gen as I was in dps gear so I was essentially doing full damage at 200% threat. As for movement, yeah it sucks But it also works for Nefra. Just a side note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) Actually I noticed it had pretty decent resource management due to "into the fray". I'm not sure about threat gen as I was in dps gear so I was essentially doing full damage at 200% threat. As for movement, yeah it sucks But it also works for Nefra. Just a side note. Not really with nefra - the only AoE she does in that fight is her DoT (I've tested it back when trying to figure out if tanks can use the Ephimeral Mending relic in AoE heavy fights - It didn't proc at all on that fight, but procced like crazy against brontes) Now Bestia on the other hand... Edited August 4, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxSHOONYxx Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Not really with nefra - the only AoE she does in that fight is her DoT (I've tested it back when trying to figure out if tanks can use the Ephimeral Mending relic in AoE heavy fights - It didn't proc at all on that fight, but procced like crazy against brontes) Now Bestia on the other hand... Interesting, my healers said I wasn't any harder to heal than our normal PT tank for it, it might have been due to the reduced CD on energy shield and energy rebounder. (I forgot to compare the dtps for that fight). It would be interesting to see if Tyrans' thundering blast or raptus' driving thrust also count as AoE. If so, AP tank 4lyfe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 The guide has been relocated! Go here to find it! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7660471 (It has pictures ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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