GSF: Strike Nights

[Verain]

My post was as large as it needed to get my points across, but the reason you missed that response in it the first time is because it's gunsheep's quote, not mine, and isn't in my post at all. Edited July 11, 2014 by Verain

[Rollory]

Calm down, dude. Stop being so hyper-aggressive or hyper-defensive or whatever it is you're doing.

 

I know it was Gunsheep's post. That's why it says right there that I'm quoting phoenixjon. What I meant was simply that in scanning the replies I got focused on everything you were saying and didn't read his carefully until after.

 

Stop always assuming the worst of people.

 

It's really kind of funny that all I said was "the Bastion group isn't impossibly superior", with the goal of motivating TEH pilots to actually try to get better and beat you, and your response is this frothing rage.

[Hanak]

I understand that we have turned a bit off topic from Strike Night reminders and encouraging a novel idea but there is an issue here I'd love to see resolved for the GSF community. Know that while my comments seem to be directed at the two parties here in question, but they are meant for anyone who might fit the bill.

 

Statements have been well written text on all parts, minus the personal attacks and supremely outlandish statements. Just cause Rhodogast started by making a disagreeable statement doesn't mean it should result in personal attacks and to be kept going and extended as was done - it lessens some other statements that actually are worth reading!

 

Let's call it what it is: frustration.

 

Rhodogast (and others on the Ebon Hawk) is ultimately frustrated because the goal is to win while seemingly disregarding the skill level of your opponents and smashing them so bad they don't want to play GSF. And the Bastion folks are frustrated because it seems like not many folks like them.

 

It's right to say that we aren't the best GSFers, but we do have the best pilots. When I say 'pilots' I'm talking about more than just pwning people in a ship, I'm talking camaraderie, honor, and mercy not just inside the cockpit but also outside: character. We fly because we want to meet people, make enemies that we can hate while on one character but love when we switch faction. Even better is when we help someone grow to become a better pilot and see them to continue in the piloting tradition we set forth. Sure, we spanked em good, but we gave them a hand up and told them that little hint that made them feel better and perform a little better. We want people to win, but most of all we understand that this is a game and people play to have fun. If they don't have fun in GSF because they get spanked all the time and no one tells them why, eventually they are a defeated soul that will never return to the skies that once held wonder and awe for them. We want to build a community around GSF and not just have it as some niche that only the supreme commanders of the cockpit play.

 

If the ultimate goal is to have an engaging battle during your time here on the Ebon Hawk, might I encourage that the community be engaged first? We are an RP server and while not all of us RP, we like the atmosphere. Hey, I understand that people should be brought to their knees to understand the heights they have yet to even conceive of. At the same time though, if we aren't going to point them in the right direction, show them the path, and help them avoid some pitfalls, then we might as well start telling people not to even start the climb. Honestly, we don't want people to feel that way in regards to Ebon Hawk's GSF.

 

If you feel like that's not your cup of tea then might I suggest that you follow through with leaving for a period of time (and then come back of course!) and allow those of us who do want to build Ebon Hawk's GSF community up further so we might be able to present a more appetizing response to your desire to have adequate opponents?

 

Rather, I'd love to see the aces help out the less skilled pilots more. Avoid these defining statements of 'Luke Skywalker is the only pilot with skill here!' Avoid the nitpicking. Let's talk strategy, let's try to build eachother up rather than tear down the very thing that probably drew us into GSF and perhaps to this server.

 

To help us get started I'd like to offer up a conversation piece appropriate for this thread:

What are some of the best and most versatile builds for strikes that you use or have encountered?

Which of those builds was better for dogfighting, hunting, or defending?

Edited July 11, 2014 by Hanak

[TrinityLyre]

I don’t like derailing threads much (unless they’re complete garbage), but I feel the need to respond to this one since someone pointed it out to me. I don’t generally read server forums but this one involves me!

 

Calm down, dude. Stop being so hyper-aggressive or hyper-defensive or whatever it is you're doing.

Defending himself and his friends? I don’t think he intends to come across as angry or hyper-whatever while he’s playing or posting, I just don’t get that vibe while talking to him. Maybe back off on these types of statements? They don’t help either and seem more inflammatory than anything else. If you want to have a real discussion, Verain is definitely the type of person you're looking for. I've spent hours discussing both GSF and non-GSF stuff with him and not once have I felt "shut out" by anything he's said.

 

Stop always assuming the worst of people.

And yet this is exactly what many Republic players have done. Creating an "us" vs. "them" scenario doesn’t help build the community and doesn’t make any of you seem approachable at all (and I speak solely from my perspective, no one else’s). Posting call-outs like this isn’t what I’d call "gentlemanly," it’s simply pushing an agenda (I don’t like grouping or premades and I’m not willing to put forth the effort to better myself). If someone really wanted to solve a problem or felt there was one, where better to go but the player(s) themselves? This is something you learn as a kid (or should have) – have a problem? Go to the source. I’ve had discussions with a number of TEH veterans that resolved rather well, and I talk to them to this day. I’ve helped (and grouped with) others like Halassia who are polite and don’t immediately scream some form of excuse. Some others (a minority, I’m sure) insist on calling us the devil, cheaters, aimbots, villains of the sky and what have you. Many of these are Republic players, so it really comes as no surprise.

 

It's really kind of funny that all I said was "the Bastion group isn't impossibly superior", with the goal of motivating TEH pilots to actually try to get better and beat you, and your response is this frothing rage.

And managed to insult a few exemplary players in the process with an unnecessary, belittling comment. I’m all for motivating players to get better, focus fire, improve their accuracy and teamwork – I’ve even offered Imp-side players (many who play both sides on TEH apparently) the use of our Mumble server for creating premades to fight us, or simply just to talk and discuss whatever (though I’d prefer the ones with no emotional stability or filter between brain and mouth stay off). If you (this is a general you, not a targeted one) choose not to take up these offers (and the multitudes of other offers of help we have given), that’s not on us. Many players simply don't want help. I think we’ve done and offered more than enough to establish a potentially competitive environment. We’ve even cut down our playing time on this server substantially (realize that you’re talking to players that play infinitely more matches than the average, so what may seem like a lot to you is nothing to us) due to the request of a small number.

 

And the Bastion folks are frustrated because it seems like not many folks like them.

I haven’t met an Imp-side player that (openly) detests me and I don’t play on the Republic side. I’m not really frustrated at all, though I find it funny that there appears to be this "holier than thou" attitude that’s brought up against us (again, by a minority). Those players/posters can drop the act and talk on an even level if they want to be acknowledged any further (by me). Otherwise they can keep doing what they're doing, I can't imagine that would better the community, though!

 

When I say 'pilots' I'm talking about more than just pwning people in a ship, I'm talking camaraderie, honor, and mercy not just inside the cockpit but also outside: character.

I’d say leaving a potential battle is not very honorable, yet a number of players do this on a regular basis. It doesn’t bother me at all. Truth be told, I just read it as the player outright stating "I’d rather just farm newbies, screw a challenge." Having a number of veterans stack into Flashfires and Quarrels while we’re on strike fighters for strike night doesn’t seem very honorable, either (but they are welcome to play the game as they wish, just as anyone else is). Trying to force a play style on to others isn’t exactly my definition of "honorable," either.

 

We fly because we want to meet people, make enemies that we can hate while on one character but love when we switch faction.

I’m pretty sure our crew enjoys meeting people as well. We don’t take anything in a roleplaying perspective but it’s not hard to understand that we should be the enemies for Republic players – we play the opposite faction in a PvP game. We don’t play Republic-side and so those enemies never become allies (unless the Republic player swaps factions). Not all of us have characters on both factions here. I have 16 55s (you read that correctly) – all on The Bastion. I’ve met the huge majority of GSF players there and we all tend to have a good time. I’ve never had to deal with anything remotely resembling drama there. Enemies and allies alike will come on to mumble to talk about games, ask for groups and just have fun (sometimes just to talk and for no other reason). On The Harbinger I have toons on both factions and haven’t once had to deal with a hacking accusation or denigrating comment, despite annihilating in my first few games as a gunship. I play everything, have 4,000+ games played and I feel free to choose what I want when I want. On strike night, I played the majority of my games as a Rycer or Imperium (screenshots to back that up).

 

Even better is when we help someone grow to become a better pilot and see them to continue in the piloting tradition we set forth. Sure, we spanked em good, but we gave them a hand up and told them that little hint that made them feel better and perform a little better.

And this sets you apart from us, how exactly? If anything, that makes you more like us than you realized. Members of our team help others on a regular basis (I even gave one example up above) – but we also post on the GSF forums offering help to players of any server in threads like this and this. Some of our players are even featured on SWTOR-related podcasts (Enmity and Ootinicast). A multitude of players have come to us for help and we’ve never turned them away. We regularly group with players that aren’t a part of our "clique." We invite them to mumble and to GSF groups and answer questions via Twitch, forums, in-game and on mumble (VOIP). None of this is required, but a number of us still do it extensively.

 

Sure, we spanked em good, but we gave them a hand up and told them that little hint that made them feel better and perform a little better.

In order to do this regularly without impacting my time actually playing the game I would need to roll a Republic-side toon on TEH. Based on the overboard reactions of a small group of veterans I’m not very inclined to do so. Why should I reach out to players who don’t know me and already make attacks, threats and insults directed at me and my team? They’re obviously not positively predisposed toward me and I’m not interested in turning my gameplay experience into an uphill battle arguing with blowhards on a regular basis. In RP terms, I don’t see myself as a politician like Palpatine or Amidala, I’m more a decorated pilot like Baron Fel. I shoot people down. A lot.

 

We want people to win, but most of all we understand that this is a game and people play to have fun.

You want your team to win, I want my team to win. Winning a game is more fun than losing, and in PvP games, half the players are going to win, the other half are going to lose. It’s clear that some don’t share that sentiment but I’m not here to change that, either. I don't purposely forfeit matches and I don't let people purposefully kill me with no effort - that doesn't encourage learning at all.

 

If they don't have fun in GSF because they get spanked all the time and no one tells them why, eventually they are a defeated soul that will never return to the skies that once held wonder and awe for them.

Ask? I’m pretty sure some of the team I regularly play with would happily 1v1 enemies on various ships and explain tactics/gameplay to them. See the above links I have already provided.

 

We want to build a community around GSF and not just have it as some niche that only the supreme commanders of the cockpit play.

There are far more premades on The Bastion and The Harbinger than exist on The Ebon Hawk, and those communities are doing just fine as far as I can tell. Games are not limited to the ”supreme commanders of the cockpit play” or what have you.

 

If the ultimate goal is to have an engaging battle during your time here on the Ebon Hawk, might I encourage that the community be engaged first?

We engage the Imperial-side with silly jokes, stupidity, GSF-related discussion and a lot more. Some times when I log in I have friendly players emote tackle me with a hug there – that's a pretty positive response! As I mentioned above, there’s little incentive to swap sides and deal with the vitriol found there when Empire-side is generally pretty pleasant.

 

Hey, I understand that people should be brought to their knees to understand the heights they have yet to even conceive of.

lol. I sure like defeating enemies, but the only time I want to “bring someone to their knees” is when I have to deal with smack talk or belittling comments. It doesn’t happen too often, and I’d say it’s a reasonable reaction. If a group of players spanks me on their Flashfires while I’m playing a Rycer with little requisition, my desire to continue playing at a disadvantage (and you can argue ship balance elsewhere, it’s not the point) lessens substantially. I enjoy playing strike fighters, though, and so strike night is of mild interest to me. If you don’t believe me, here’s a shout-out a fellow player gave me on Ootinicast (8m 28s). Yarp, despite the extreme effort being placed in turning some of us into horrendously evil villains who only fly bombers and gunships (apparently only the Republic-side is justified in fielding these, though), I prefer strike fighters and scouts.

 

Rather, I'd love to see the aces help out the less skilled pilots more.

So would I, which is why my compendium exists and why Drakolich offers his help anywhere he goes. Sometimes I get players asking for detailed, frequent help and I point them right in his direction. He derives more enjoyment from it and often times I just want to blow things up. He has his Twitch stream, which is an excellent tool for the job. Our Imp-side guild on The Bastion, Obsidian Squadron, has a huge number of players, many of which are GSF rookies. I think Drak’s had a great time helping them out. If we are the evil, hateful, disrespectful players we're made out to be I don't think these players would've hung around.

 

Avoid

1) Negative comments about players/people you don’t know.

2) Assumption that players are inherently evil and seek nothing but to make you miserable.

3) Listening to players, especially veterans, who spout nothing but inflammatory drivel and seek to drive a wedge between various elements of "the community."

4) Following the herd in giving up because “omgz my win/loss and kill/death are going to tank!” (As a side note here, it counts leaving a match as a loss.)

5) Perpetuating an "us" vs. "them" mentality that extends anywhere beyond the actual battle. Yeah, we're the Republic's enemies. No more.

6) Being a recluse that fails to verbally engage other players who might be more seasoned than you are - we don't generally talk smack to players of "lesser skill."

 

What are some of the best and most versatile builds for strikes that you use or have encountered?

I have a number of them in my compendium, but I’m always looking for more entries if people find something unique, interesting and viable! I prefer running the Rycer build I listed there and swap my Clarion/Imperium between Directional Shields (all-purpose) and Charged Plating (satellite games). I've played my Clarion and Imperium far more than any other ship lately, it's just so fun. This is all mostly personal preference, though!

 

Sorry this was so long! TL;DR - My name is Dementia and I like to shoot people until they blow up. :) <- a couple smiley faces to show I'm not angry or whatever.

 

-Dementia

Edited July 11, 2014 by TrinityLyre

[Hanak]

Know that while my comments seem to be directed at the two parties here in question, but they are meant for anyone who might fit the bill.

 

If you don't fit the bill, no worries!

 

I'm just trying to explain the general perception and how we can clear that up.

 

You've done a fine job validating your point - thank you for that. I never claimed all folks were 'pilots' as I described or even that you folks from Bastion were not, but that perspective is there unfortunately. But I would argue that there are more folks who are than are not - you showed that you yourself are one such pilot! Again, I'm arguing for a general philosophy of gaming not for drawing a line in the sand and saying this is you (the Bastion crew) and this is us (the Ebon Hawk crew) - I mean to be more general than that.

 

I only have one point to disagree with you on is that while winning is fun, losing can be fun, but rather playing the game and doing your best - that is what is most fun regardless of the outcome. Sometimes though doing your best isn't shooting more people out of the sky, but helping others shoot more people out of the sky. Heck no, don't sit there and let them kill you! There are more creative ways than curb stomping folks though. ie not setting up gunships just outside of the capital turret's range and preventing all enemies from getting out from their ship (saw this happen today) - not fun for anyone.

 

But when statements are made like this, they devoid the argument of the educational perspective and become personal attacks when prior there were none.

 

From the start you put the wrong foot forward.

 

Strikes are unquestionably weaker. If you don't think so, you aren't very good at GSF. Sorry bro!

 

As it is, the only hypotheses are:

 

1)- You don't know what you are talking about.

2)- You are so much better than me and my crew that we don't even understand you.

 

2 isn't true. The answer is 1.

 

I'm glad I picked 1. This is delusional.

 

Here's a logical proposition for you and other readers:

IF you think strikes are fine AND you killed Aimbot, THEN he was probably drunk or wildly outnumbered.

 

I'm quoting this mostly so you can't delete it later to hide your ludicrous claims.

 

So, lemme get this straight big guy:

[Hanak]

Oh, and please come over Pub side - I think we'd have some fun together .

[Rollory]

If you want to have a real discussion, Verain is definitely the type of person you're looking for.

 

He just spent five pages or so telling me I'm crazy and that I can't possibly have done things that I have actually done.

 

If he wants to revisit that whole post, I'm game.

 

If the idea is to convince me that I don't have anything to learn from him, that post was a good way to do it.

 

And managed to insult a few exemplary players in the process with an unnecessary, belittling comment

 

This seems to be the key right here. You guys think I'm not giving you credit you're owed. Which, to be blunt, is your problem. If you know you're the hot stuff, it absolutely doesn't matter if someone less skilled isn't impressed. Just blow him up and go on your merry way. Either he'll change his mind or he'll keep blowing up.

 

Or, y'know, neither.

 

I have seen you all in action. I stand by what I said. Nothing I've seen any of you do is out of the same order of magnitude as the other particularly good pilots I've seen. It blows my mind that this is a claim that upsets you! - "hey guys, they're pretty good, but they're not so good you can't learn to handle them." THIS is belittling and insulting? If you really think that, then that is a problem you're going to have to work through. If you object to my bringing up Scrab, I can only say that being good in just one ship isn't (in my eyes) any sort of disqualification for truly exceptional skill, and he's done things I wouldn't have believed if I hadn't seen them.

 

What makes it difficult to handle you is that an attack on one immediately has the others supporting their friend, and yes you do that very well. It's not belittling to say so and it's not unnecessary: I am convinced it's the key to getting people on this server to be able to handle you on a regular basis. If pubside does get to the point of having equally good teamwork and/or is able to negate yours and you're still stomping all over them? Then I'll have reason to reconsider. Until then, this is all monumental overreaction to a completely neutral and possibly mistaken observation ... and is completely divergent from the main point I was trying to make, which is that it IS possible to beat non-strikes with strikes as that's what I've been setting myself to prove since GSF launched, that the "need" to switch out of a strike is largely in people's heads, and if Verain wants to actually discuss that claim, as I said I'm game.

 

Rhodogast / Kelril

[TrinityLyre]

I only have one point to disagree with you on is that while winning is fun, losing can be fun, but rather playing the game and doing your best - that is what is most fun regardless of the outcome.

Agreed, but only to a point. I agree that losing can still be fun - it's the best opportunity to learn something. Why did you lose? What could you have done better? What specific points during the match were the game changers? Etc. Learning (to me) is fun. I simply stated that winning is more fun, not that losing isn't. If you go in expecting to win every match, you'll always end up disappointed.

 

Doing your best definitely makes you feel good after a match - you know you've given it your all. However, I typically don't try my hardest - especially not in lopsided games. As has already been mentioned, there's a difference between winning by a large margin and grinding people into the dirt. I (and other skilled pilots) can definitely try harder, but I don't think that would be "more fun" for the community as a whole. That's basically just widening the skill gap even further, and if you're looking to attract new pilots it won't help at all.

 

Sometimes though doing your best isn't shooting more people out of the sky, but helping others shoot more people out of the sky.

Agreed! That's why I like playing with others instead of solo. Sometimes it's just fun to have someone to talk to while shooting and capturing satellites.

 

setting up gunships just outside of the capital turret's range and preventing all enemies from getting out from their ship (saw this happen today) - not fun for anyone.

I know you're not referring to me (because I haven't played TEH today), but that's relatively boring. Typically the only time I charge spawns in TDM is to get rid of gunships that are spawn-sniping (because I heard everyone loves being shot from 15,000m ). I believe the huge majority of TDM matches aren't fought in the center for very long - players just tend to chase each other around as well as retreat to their allies/cover, so the battle area is typically near one spawn point or another. If a gunship runs, you don't let it come back and snipe again - that's just bad gameplay.

 

But when statements are made like this, they devoid the argument of the educational perspective and become personal attacks when prior there were none.

I'm not adding to that, as Rollory said it's not even the point of his argument. I'd just like to point out here that neither is being all that polite in handling it. I will say I try and abstain from personal attacks wherever possible.

 

This seems to be the key right here. You guys think I'm not giving you credit you're owed. Which, to be blunt, is your problem.

It's not a problem, really, because what you say doesn't change reality.

 

If you know you're the hot stuff, it absolutely doesn't matter if someone less skilled isn't impressed. Just blow him up and go on your merry way. Either he'll change his mind or he'll keep blowing up.

Or switch over and rage at you. That aside, I do agree with you to some extent here. I don't post in the GSF Records thread for that reason: I don't really feel I have anything to prove and I have more fun playing than impressing others. I went through the lengths of typing up an extremely long guide and posting helpful commentary because I found that more fun. I don't feel a burning desire to post a record-holding smashing of newbies to qualify myself. I'm sure there's tons of quotes I can refer to here, but have this one:

 

 

Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no true king.

 

 

"hey guys, they're pretty good, but they're not so good you can't learn to handle them." THIS is belittling and insulting?

Nope, no one is so good that they play perfectly all the time, without question. I actually liked your encouragement for others to step up to the plate, I thought I made that clear in the previous post? I'd love heavy competition - games where the odds are stacked against you are fun. It encourages you to try new things and devise interesting ways to counter either overwhelming force or specific strategies.

 

If you object to my bringing up Scrab, I can only say that being good in just one ship isn't (in my eyes) any sort of disqualification for truly exceptional skill, and he's done things I wouldn't have believed if I hadn't seen them.

And that's your opinion, which you are entitled to. However, factually, he hasn't outperformed me in any match I can think of where I've played against him (using a multitude of ships). His K/D is always lower and he's one of many that post newbie-smashing wins in the Records thread(s). He typically played (I haven't seen him on, maybe this will get him to play again ) a Flashfire with TT/Wingman/pods/quads and I don't find anything overly skillful in pressing two buttons and eliminating your opposition in the blink of an eye. It's fun for a game or two as you annihilate enemies that have almost no time to react, but it gets old fast (this is my opinion, but I know it's shared by others). In fact, the ability to instantly annihilate your opponent with no chance to react is something I've been lobbying against as a game design error for a while now. That's not to say he has no skill, but I find it amusing that you place him on a pedestal for playing one ship (which many think is horrendously overpowered) but ask myself and others to switch off that ship (among others) or be more gentle. I'm not afraid to play any ship, lately I've had much more fun in an Imperium/Clarion than anything else - and it certainly isn't the best dogfighter.

 

I find the claim silly and wrong. Factually, taking any game I have played with or against him in, you are just wrong. I'm sure I could dig up screenshots as I record every game for reference purposes, but you just said this was an offhandish comment so I'm not going to add anything more here. From an opinion perspective, you're welcome to believe anything you like - I don't go around preaching or convincing others of some religion or what not (whether or not it's real or makes sense).

 

What makes it difficult to handle you is that an attack on one immediately has the others supporting their friend, and yes you do that very well. It's not belittling to say so and it's not unnecessary: I am convinced it's the key to getting people on this server to be able to handle you on a regular basis.

Agreed, GSF is a team game and playing as a team (as much as possible, even if that includes VOIP communication) greatly increases your ability to win games. That's why I offered use of the Mumble server - for competitive purposes. I can't/won't buy people microphones, though.

 

the main point I was trying to make, which is that it IS possible to beat non-strikes with strikes

OK, everything else dropped and left aside, I'm willing to discuss this point. As mentioned, I've played a ridiculous amount of games and many have been in strikes trying the very same thing. I can reliably take down many skilled pilots in a strike - strikes are not so bad off that they are utterly useless - they are just eclipsed by ships that are far more capable of dealing high amounts of burst damage or surviving for extended periods (Sting, Mangler, Razorwire, etc.). There's a reason these ships are "the meta."

 

Is it possible? Yes. Against a player of even (but high, I can't speak for newer players or veterans that aren't great at a twitch-based game like GSF) skill, will it be likely? No, not by a long shot, unless we're talking bombers in an open range. Here's the "fotm" matchups:

 

lolscout Sting/Flashfire

A good Sting/Flashfire will stay within 1,000m of the enemy strike nearly 100% of the time, giving it a win. Sub-1,000m, the strike can't lock on cluster missiles or fire heavy lasers with any degree of accuracy (and even if they did, the scout has two missile breaks compared to the strike's one). The scout will be able to easily fire BLCs and secure a kill, even with edge-of-reticle shots (from Retros fired off by either party). The scout will be able to place immense pressure on the strike because they're effectively negating half the weaponry.

 

Mangler/Quarrel

If the gunship's opening ion shot hits the strike, the duel is decided right there. The crippling snare, ability to missile break twice and the strike's lack of forward shields practically hands this fight right to the gunship. If the gunship fights near an obstacle it can LOS around, it can juke and turn around to peg the strike with BLCs as well, giving it a tremendous advantage at close-range. Ideally, no gunship runs without friendly support though (and that includes Renegade-one).

 

Razorwire/Rampart Mark Four

LOS strike attacks, drop mines. Strike can choose to hit mines or go fight someone else. Against a skilled player the strike will not be able to do very much on their own because they'll be forced to fight in a small area (while the bomber effectively line-of-sights every single serious strike attack). Using rapid-fires will not accomplish very much thanks to charged plating. If the strike in question is an Imperium/Clarion running charged plating they can probably hold off dying almost indefinitely, but I'd question their ability to actually do anything to the Razorwire/Rampart. Again, given equal skill. On a contested satellite the ability to stay alive in the presence of a bomber can make the difference, though.

 

So the strike (be it any of the three, I'd say the Quell/Pike is the weakest of them right now) will typically lose to all three of the popular "ships of the meta." Strike fighters can play well in a team environment - they are able to pressure enemies while under a constant barrage of fire (as long as it isn't ion or missile spam) and take down bombers floating out in the open with no problem at all. They can harass gunships and take lots of opportunistic shots at unsuspecting enemies with heavy lasers. They're great at crushing inferior players (ones who don't break missiles, don't LOS and don't respond quickly under fire). They're fun to play, but they are hardly an optimal choice.

 

Against coordinated, skilled Stings/Manglers/Razorwires the strike fighters are nearly incapable of using half their weaponry, putting them at a tremendous disadvantage. Too, the Stings/Manglers are capable of responding to threats and opportunities far faster than any strike fighter (thanks to the ranged weaponry of one and the speed of the other), making them extremely valuable in any match. All these ships require skill and all of them scale very well with the skill of the player. However, it is normal for opponents to emulate someone who has killed them - that's likely why we see so many battlescouts around.

 

The tactic you posted here may work against some veterans (and requires an exclusive dogfighting build), but skilled players running the ever-popular BLC/cluster battlescout will be fast on their toes responding to a play like that.

 

3) He's reacting to your move, setting up to close the distance to you again. Probably just as you'll be getting him into the middle of your targeting reticle is when he'll boost a bit and zoom right up close to you. So what you do, as soon as he's close to the center of your reticle, hit the retros, while blasting with ions and locking and firing a cluster. His shields are now gone, maybe some hull damage.

His reaction to your spacebar will be near-instantaneous. You can hear the sound of boosters being fired off and realize that the strike is aiming to extend the distance. When the strike is turning around, a decent scout will be aware of a Rycer/Star Guard's ability to retro thrusters and either match the maneuver (cancels the missile lock and greatly boosts their already high evasion) or use forward momentum to carry them past the firing arc of both cluster and ion (pressing distortion to break the missile lock if they were too slow) by pitching upwards or downwards (or alternatively rolling during the turn and choosing a side just to make it harder for the strike to hit with anything). Against a good battlescout rocking BLCs, a strike fighter is at their mercy.

 

Swap to heavies and pound him a bit.

The only way this part is happening is if you catch the scout unawares (he's engaging elsewhere but will probably instantly respond to the missile lock or a shot) or if you're fighting a quads/pods build (that relies on having some range and firing near the center of the screen to deal damage). Otherwise, even this strike fighter will need help dropping suppressing fire (lasers/missiles) to tie down a battlescout.

 

You bring up situational awareness and peels, which is good - I think everyone needs to be aware of the two concepts. This is where I think strike fighters are great - the optimal way to play isn't to sit there dogfighting a Sting in your Star Guard. The Sting is better at that. It's better for a strike fighter to focus on enemies that are farther away and unaware of you - you will likely get more shots/missiles off, more damage, and secure kills more easily by firing on enemies that are not focused on you. Peeling typically includes such targets. This goes doubly for tag-teaming enemies - you can do a great deal for your team simply by playing wingman for someone else.

 

Are strikes worthless? Nah, not really. Are they fun to play? I think so. Are they balanced relative to the other popular ships? No. To the ones I didn't list? Sure! I don't see a problem with Strike Night and I think it's even more of an opportunity to showcase teamwork. That doesn't mean I'd run up a wave of strikes against a team of decent enemy gunships or battlescouts. The power disparity is more than large enough to be noticeable, especially when the inclusion of ion railgun is assumed.

Edited July 12, 2014 by TrinityLyre

[Verain]

Oh, and please come over Pub side - I think we'd have some fun together .

 

We do have some babypubs, but like... so many servers, we can't bifaction on all of them.

 

He just spent five pages or so telling me I'm crazy and that I can't possibly have done things that I have actually done.

 

You basically offered some very weak anecdotes as if they were data on strikes in the meta. That's garbage logic using garbage data to defend garbage balance. I'm pretty sure I didn't say you didn't do things, just that your interpretation and conclusions are really inaccurate.

 

If the idea is to convince me that I don't have anything to learn from him, that post was a good way to do it.

 

You've posted all this trash about a game you don't play about how to fly a strike fighter against aces you've never played by using a technique that relies on a large skill difference in your favor. Better strike and scout mains than you get the problem, and they actually played the game this month.

 

You guys think I'm not giving you credit you're owed. Which, to be blunt, is your problem. If you know you're the hot stuff, it absolutely doesn't matter if someone less skilled isn't impressed. Just blow him up and go on your merry way. Either he'll change his mind or he'll keep blowing up.

 

 

Or he'll stop queuing, hop on the forums, and make passive aggressive comments about how a lack of sportsmanship is fine, balance is fine, and imply that we aren't very good, on a foreign server where we have a pretty preposterous W/L ratio even before we had a single mastered ship.

 

Nothing I've seen any of you do is out of the same order of magnitude as the other particularly good pilots I've seen. It blows my mind that this is a claim that upsets you!

 

You phrased it with the intent to be an insult, knowing that you could retreat to this. It doesn't change what you said. You also didn't say:

 

"hey guys, they're pretty good, but they're not so good you can't learn to handle them."

 

 

You said:

 

"They're good but not that good; the only pilot in GSF who is that good is Scrab. It is not because they fly ships that are inherently overpowered. (Inherently easier to fly, sure; but not overpowered.) The Bastion group win all their matches because they fly and fight as a team"

 

One of these things is not like the other.

 

You see, what you say up there, is you pretending that you are totally reasonable, instead of trolling for a fight as the second comment (which is what you actually said) demonstrates.

 

If you say that:

 

1- "This one pilot is better than their whole team"

Then yes, I will take that as an insult. Scrab is a good pilot, but he's not in the same league as Stasie and Drako. You don't have to believe this- you can just be wrong. You're bound and determined to be.

2- "They fly ships that are inherently easier to fly"

This is a sideways way of both arguing your agenda ("strikes are fine! everything is fine!") and implying that we play "easy ships" instead of what they are- competitive ships. Oh, and all ships.

3- "We only win because we fight as a team"

This implies that we aren't good individually.

 

 

You can't change what you said, and nor will you convince me that your post was anything but utterly hostile in intent.

 

 

that the "need" to switch out of a strike is largely in people's heads, and if Verain wants to actually discuss that claim, as I said I'm game.

 

I've discussed that, but Stasie did a great job pointing out the issues with that line of reasoning. Strikes can't hurt scouts much, and it is just that simple.

 

They turn worse, are slower, can't aim for crap at close range, can't lock missiles, can't burst, have a hard time moving across the map. In exchange they get extra shield and hull, which just makes them a slightly more resilient mouse for the battle scouts to bat around with their paws before consuming head first. They are denied a second missile break, whose presence allows the scouts entirely different playstyles and makes them almost immune to missiles. They have a lower evasion no matter what they do, meaning that a railgun can always hit (and debuff or deal hull damage) the strike, and the warning that an opponent has is just wild compared to the scout.

 

 

The strikes have components that were SUPPOSED to be good, but are not. The scouts are balanced around a generally lower ability to "knife fight" than is present on live. It's not a giant conspiracy, it's just a tuning difference, and the devs need to understand that so they can tweak it to be on par.

 

 

But I'm not that interested in arguing with you much. Not only do all the good players agree, it's across servers.

 

 

Whatever server or faction I am on, the hard games are always against enemies who stack the "good" ships. It's never against Strike Fighter Army. If strike fighters were great, guess what? We'd see some server where they were played heavily and did serious damage against actual aces of all classes.

 

We don't.

 

 

So your theory- and why I'm all over you on this-

 

Is that only you, who doesn't play right now and barely plays anyway, understands everything better than everyone else who plays. For you to be right, everyone else has to be wrong. That's quite the insult.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Verain

[SammyGStatus]

So only strikes on my bar tonight Oh well - good luck everybody!

[LordMatthewS]

I don't play GSF anymore. The controls are very weird for me. (I'm playing on a laptop.)

[Nemarus]

Strike Night is on tonight! I will likely be mostly on as Nemarus pubside, since that's where my last unmastered Strike is. That being said, I'll be in voice comms with Eclipse Squadron to try and coordinate that they are on Strikes too!

 

Note that the ending time is 1pm EST, as there was some confusion last week.

[Nemarus]

So only strikes on my bar tonight Oh well - good luck everybody!

 

That's the spirit! What's the worst that could happen?

[Nemarus]

Thanks all! Seemed like participation was much better this week as compared to last week. Lots of fun, close matches with lots of momentum swings (all Domination for me).

[SammyGStatus]

I'm tryna figure out if CF or Wingman would be better to run when Star Guard has Quads loaded. Gunsheep brought me to red hull in our opening exchange (he runs wingman while I run CF on my strike). IDK which is more ideal for quick dps to take him down.

[TrinityLyre]

CF or Wingman would be better

 

I run Wingman on a huge amount of ships now - it's amazing to be able to completely offset your tracking penalty and/or partially/completely negate enemy evasion. The only time I run CF is when I can combine it with TT/BO, and even then Wingman is an excellent alternative (less so in the case of TT where you're getting even more accuracy you may not end up using).

[SammyGStatus]

I run Wingman on a huge amount of ships now - it's amazing to be able to completely offset your tracking penalty and/or partially/completely negate enemy evasion. The only time I run CF is when I can combine it with TT/BO, and even then Wingman is an excellent alternative (less so in the case of TT where you're getting even more accuracy you may not end up using).

 

Thanks Stasie! I'll try the switch out tn and see how she flies! Originally, I only ran wingman on my GS but it does seem to be pretty powerful

Edited July 15, 2014 by SammyGStatus

[Nemarus]

I run Wingman on a huge amount of ships now - it's amazing to be able to completely offset your tracking penalty and/or partially/completely negate enemy evasion. The only time I run CF is when I can combine it with TT/BO, and even then Wingman is an excellent alternative (less so in the case of TT where you're getting even more accuracy you may not end up using).

 

I've also become a Wingman convert. It really makes any weapon with tracking penalty > 1% much more viable for close range combat. Even LLC's, which are right on that bubble, become much more reliable with Wingman up.

 

Even on my Blackbolt, I think I have more fun with Wingman over CF, just because Wingman's uptime is much less stressful than CF. A bit of lag or muscle twitch can ruin a CF (not to mention an unexpected move from your target). But Wingman is much more forgiving, and very helpful for scoring hits with Rocket Pods off center.

 

Normally I do not stack it with TT, but instead save Wingman for when TT is down, or for the occasional times I'm trying to kill a DF / RI Scout.

 

Plus Wingman benefits your allies, which can turn the tide pretty quickly when trying to clear a sat.

[Verain]

Many of the copilot abilities need rework, but for the few "good ones", I think that which is better depends on the situation you find yourself in.

 

Wingman is the generically best offensive one, allowing you to score shots you wouldn't otherwise. It's very valuable on a gunship, as we still live in an evasion meta, and the devs haven't found a way to make concentrated fire work with railguns in a fair way yet. The allies affected part is ok, but not great. If you find yourself in a target rich environment, this is your best call. I think if you are uncertain which one to pick, this is your pick.

 

In Your Sights is a similar option, allowing for a debuff that makes an enemy terrible at evasion. While interesting, this is rarely chosen compared to wingman- the enemy might go LOS of not just you, but everyone. It also has a very short range (5k), meaning that you can't even run it on a gunship, and it is often poor even as a strike. I feel that the magnitude of this should be higher, or the cooldown lower.

 

Running Interference is probably the second best copilot ability. Just a single dodged attack is so huge, and it stacks so well with lightweight hull, the crew dodge, and distortion passive and active if available. The downside is that it really isn't a huge amount of dodge. This is favored by pilots who spend a lot of their time being focused and not necessarily being able to effectively return fire.

 

Suppression is similar to running interference, but is much more powerful at 25 over 15... but only modifies one target. I've found use for this ability when a some tunnel scout comes calling, as it greatly reduces the ability of their cooldowns, and also allows for a powerful peel for allies. The downside is that it simply doesn't help you in the same way RI does, and has no offensive power.

 

Concentrated Fire is generally weak, but can be very powerful in a niche. Broadly speaking, if you have other cooldowns that stack with it geometrically, it is excellent. For instance, during targeting telemetry almost all your shots will hit, more of them will crit, and those that do crit will crit for more. Stacking these is a fundamental part of burn play, and at times it can be pressed off cooldown if needed. This is mostly just for scouts- the benefit only modifies blasters, but has no restrictions about stacking with BO or TT, but will do nothing for your missiles, railguns, mines, etc.

 

Bypass was very overnerfed. While 35% was too much, 16% is too little. This cool ability still has some use, mostly to provide some extra emphasis to thermites or be able to hit people who have plenty of shields and not much hull. The proper buff to this would be to halve the cooldown or something. Anyway, I still can use this on a gunship or several Pike builds, but in general Wingman is very proactive and can provide damage to scouts that would otherwise tank it behind evasion mechanics, and as such it's much less common. This ability is hard to use on empire side, standing exclusive with the mandatory 6% hit (~10% extra blaster damage), which is probably part of why they are leaving it so badly nerfed.

 

Lockdown is hard to get, but can be very clutch with a strike fighter. An enemy who uses an engine maneuver can be rendered unable to boost LOS, or a hard boosting enemy can be rendered unable to missile break. It's very niche, and requires some pretty stupid copilots, especially on pub (Doctor Lockin lets you grab it for free on Empire, but Andronikus, C2N2, and Guss all require sacrifice).

 

Slicer's Loop can be useful at times, but the times are so hard to predict or capitalize on that I consider it a poor ability in general.

 

Servo Jammer is very niche (you need to have a bunch of other turn-snares to make it good), Nullify and Lingering Effect are garbage, and Hydro Spanner is only ok on a few LOS happy charged plating builds. Seeing an enemy thirty fiving is a pretty good call that he's terrible at the game. Hydro Spanner should probably be doubled in magnitude, or even tripled- it's only popular because ego. I always spend time preemptively insulting anyone who would defend this bad ability, because I'm just so sick of seeing otherwise good pilots waste a slot on it, or worse, try to justify their bad behavior on the forums, guiding the new pilots away from actually effective copilot abilities to waste their time with worthless MZ-12.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Verain

[Nemarus]

Strike Night tonight!

 

New to GSF? This is the night to play! Combat will generally be more slower-paced, with less burst damage. Try out your starter Rycer or Starguard and learn the ropes!

[MaximilianPower]

Not experiencing a lot of Strike Night compliance thus far; both sides seem to be fielding whatever the heck they want. Trying to remind people doesn't seem to help. Is this typical? I've only done one of these before (last week), and it seemed there was more consistency that time.

 

I'll give it another go in a few minutes, maybe the true pro-Strike-Nighters are on later in the evening.

[Hanak]

It purely depends on other folks - Saberwing went 3 hrs in all strikes and then called it for a bit and put a few other ships on our bar. We would go with strikes first, and then balance it out as necessary.

 

The last 2-3 matches we played we were all able to field strikes without an issue of ship balance and had a blast. Thank you Imps for going strike!

[Nemarus]

Not experiencing a lot of Strike Night compliance thus far; both sides seem to be fielding whatever the heck they want. Trying to remind people doesn't seem to help. Is this typical? I've only done one of these before (last week), and it seemed there was more consistency that time.

 

I'll give it another go in a few minutes, maybe the true pro-Strike-Nighters are on later in the evening.

 

It varies. Not everyone reads the forums. Not everyone is on [Gsf].

 

And unfortunately, I couldn't make it last night due to work emergencies--usually I'm a pretty persistent cheerleader on both sides.

 

Ultimately it is voluntary, and you should worry more about what you're flying rather than what others are flying. And if you truly care about Strike Night and want it to be a success, then take everything else off your bar. Don't be tempted to "retaliate" or "punish" against others by using a non-Strike. That will never, ever, ever work.

[MaximilianPower]

It varies. Not everyone reads the forums. Not everyone is on [Gsf].

 

And unfortunately, I couldn't make it last night due to work emergencies--usually I'm a pretty persistent cheerleader on both sides.

 

Ultimately it is voluntary, and you should worry more about what you're flying rather than what others are flying. And if you truly care about Strike Night and want it to be a success, then take everything else off your bar. Don't be tempted to "retaliate" or "punish" against others by using a non-Strike. That will never, ever, ever work.

 

Well, I did play a few matches 100% on strikes despite the mixed teams. There was a lot of chat on the topic (general before/during matches, and GSF channel after) about it...some guys started strike but switched when they saw the opposition; others announced ahead of time that they weren't going to participate. That included one guy who kept apologizing and mysteriously explaining that he was "working on something he'd been putting off" - maybe an achievement or something, I don't know - but he was in a GS the whole time.

 

Understood on your last point, though I will sheepishly admit that I did swap to GS mid-match during my very last game (TDM), because at that point I felt it was a lost cause and we had a chance to win the game if I played my usual ships (and we did actually pull that one off, I think 49-45, good game). But up to that point I was doggedly sticking with the strikes. I'll give it another go next week, and I think I will indeed take everything else off my bar (and simply pack it in at the end rather than switch again).

[SammyGStatus]

I lost a match in strike night where our team flew only strikes and the opposition had 1, maybe. It was close, but we would've won without gimping ourselves. Like I said, every week makes it feel like a chore, and it shouldn't. Two days ago made it seem that way (someone even said strike night got moved to wednesday.... no).