Sniper PVP

[GrayIE]

Since the nerf our sniper flash bang and boosts to our anti-classes. Snipers are totally out gunned.

I have played a MM sniper in Pvp since 1.0 and my gear is not too shabby.

However since this anti-class buffs and nerfs are pvp survivability is now extremely low. Almost every class (assume equal gear) can take down a sniper more often than not.

My mains points are:

 

1) Snipers being forced out of cover. We are only class that can have it's best defence removed. Power techs shields can't get turned off, sorcs bubbles just can't be removed. These have to burned though. But snipers can get removed from cover, charged in cover, stunned in cover and we have to use this mechanic, it's fundamental. An out of cover sniper is dead in seconds.

 

2) Self heal/ hp increase. Most classes now have a way to self heal or increase their hp (if not both). Snipers do a have low level ability to regenerate 1% of their hp every 3 second. But you are looking at max 350 hp every 3 sec, that does nothing in a pvp fight and then only while in cover. That means 1min 40 sec to heal a full hp bar.

 

I understand but was sadden by the loss of group flash bang but the scales have gone to far. especially in arena's we are always the 1st target but we die easy and can't do anything about it. We should not be a class that must have a healer or can't do arenas. Once we have lost hp, it's gone.Whereas most classes, be it inefficiently, can heal back up.

 

My Suggestion: Remove the hp over time skill point and directly replace it with adrenaline probe now restores 50% / 100% of your max hp. That is 2 minute CD but gives snipers a fighting chance in arenas to survive being stunned to 1%hp before we can take any action.

 

On a side point, maybe consider giving a class an ability that can break sorc invulnerability bubble, as this way over powered in PVP. I.e. double sabre throw only can break it.

[DerSchneider]

100% a bit overpowered (like the juggs now), but 25/50% would be ok. But the biggest problem for me are dots now. For example when you got 2-3 dots in full dps arena that will cost you half of your hp/dodge pop. Nice solution will be a 30 sec cd ultimate cleanse (even sorc+watchman dots). This wont be a dot class nerf - sorc have big part of damage from force lighting+strike, watchman sent has merciless+slash and resets CD of dots from them.

[MotorCityMan]

Snipers don't use the force and therefor when they fight force users are like cavemen hurling rocks at 21st century Green Berets. Of course they will not win. They are too primitive. This fits with Star Wars lore, where all the gun wielding peons are just cannon fodder to those who have mastered the way of the force. Edited May 18, 2014 by MotorCityMan

[discbox]

Snipers don't use the force and therefor when they fight force users are like cavemen hurling rocks at 21st century Green Berets. Of course they will not win. They are too primitive. This fits with Star Wars lore, where all the gun wielding peons are just cannon fodder to those who have mastered the way of the force.

 

Yawn.

[LouLouJ]

So true op. It's so unfair that snipers have to roll (and actually get up if roll is on cool-down *GASP*) when pesky melee won't stay at the 45-meter range. In fact it doesn't make much sense that other classes can see my sniper when she's ducked behind cover. Cover should just be and invisible-impenetrable box that auto-attacks with nuclear pulses at any player within 80-meter-radius for 75k damage a piece.

 

 

/sarcasm

 

In honesty, yes snipers may need a slight survivibility buff in 4v4 (regs are fine) but what your describing doesn't make sense. And your mourning the loss of 45-meter-instant-group-mez, and complaining about counters to sorc-bubble makes me think you haven't really tried the other ranged classes.

[Raazmir]

Learn to engineering and position yourself near terrain to double wall roll when people leap to you.

 

Or you can get a little more adept at marksman and realize that it's the only class that can spend slighly over 50% of its time immune to CC entirely and significantly more than 50% of its time immune to snares/slows.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Raazmir

[MrGoldsilver]

Learn to engineering and position yourself near terrain to double wall roll when people leap to you.

 

Or you can get a little more adept at marksman and realize that it's the only class that can spend slighly over 50% of its time immune to CC entirely and significantly more than 50% of its time immune to snares/slows.

 

Yes, come to the engineering side of the sniper specs!!!!

[coolinc]

I agree since sniper nerf bio just mess it up and made it so unfair in arenas. Thanks Bio fix it please.

[Ld-Siris]

Lol. What is the CD for legshot? I have a few melee classes and it seems like when I fight a sniper it's legshot every few seconds. Plus roll, plus spec specific controls. Then there's the huge shield thing and entrench. Oh yeah dots. It's called evasion and that pretty much shuts down melee. Let's see what else. Oh yeah shield probe is 20 secs CD. Then there is debilitate flash bang grenade and a knock back. Oh healing, you get one. It's called a wz medpack. Same healing as maras get.

 

If I'm not careful a sniper will damn near kill me before my root ends. Plus weapon dmg was set on par with force/tech. Sorry dude, sounds like you just need to either A) learn to play the class or B) pick a new one.

 

Snipers usually put out top dps in WZs.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Ld-Siris

[MrGoldsilver]

Lol. What is the CD for legshot? I have a few melee classes and it seems like when I fight a sniper it's legshot every few seconds. Plus roll, plus spec specific controls. Then there's the huge shield thing and entrench. Oh yeah dots. It's called evasion and that pretty much shuts down melee. Let's see what else. Oh yeah shield probe is 20 secs CD. Then there is debilitate flash bang grenade and a knock back. Oh healing, you get one. It's called a wz medpack. Same healing as maras get.

 

If I'm not careful a sniper will damn near kill me before my root ends. Plus weapon dmg was set on par with force/tech. Sorry dude, sounds like you just need to either A) learn to play the class or B) pick a new one.

 

Snipers usually put out top dps in WZs.

 

Leg shot CD is 15 seconds, but can be reduced to 12 seconds in the MM tree.

[HelinCarnate]

L2P or change to marksmanship.

 

While playing a civil war match, I killed the person guarding a turret plus the next 3 people they sent to take it back because they came in 1 at a time, one right after another. I was not able to rest and regain health between fights.

 

How to stay alive in 1 vs 1 situations.

Use entrench proactively. It should be up half the time you are in a fight.

Use shield probe proactively. It too should be up half the time you are in a fight.

When you are not being focused, hop out of cover and back in to refresh ballistic dampeners, also refreshes your instant cast on snipe.

Diversion is another one that many snipers seem to neglect. -45% accuracy is huge. Even better when used against ranged characters since you get 25% ranged defense to begin with.

For longer drawn out fights, use leg shot to put distance between you and your target or break LOS while you are waiting for shield probe to recharge.

[DarrelK]

In 4v4 good engineering snipers are just friggin scary, with that burst and aoe and lag that I get from their stuff .

[Ilintar]

Sorry, but MM is simply not a viable spec for ranked arenas (it's perfectly fine in regular warzones). Too much line-of-sight issues which good players will exploit, not enough survivability, most of your abilities rely on either long cast times or getting out of cover to refresh the proc, which is horribly risky in ranked.

 

Probably all the snipers/gunslingers I've seen in ranked use engineer/saboteur. It has the added benefit of making you able to roll twice, which is huge against all-melee opposing teams (esp. ones that have sins/shadows).

 

Sins/shadows are still the ultimate sniper/gunslinger killer out there though and personally I think that's the only really imbalanced matchup. They can close the distance without being seen until the very last moment (which is usually too late if there's more than one), they can easily pop Resilience/Force Shround to mitigate any potential double roll damage (so no sniper/gunslinger will actually try to use it against an attacking shadow, because if you use your main escape ability to wall roll and you deal no damage, you're as good as dead).

 

I do agree that sniper/gunslinger survivability is hard, though. Which doesn't mean it isn't there - it just requires really, really good usage of your cooldowns. You have to think about when to use roots and when to use stuns, use your defensive CDs cleverly (don't pop dodge/evasion and shield probe/defensive screen at the same time as it's a waste of time on the latter), balance between using your roll for damage and for escapes, know when to run and when to fight etc. The problem is that while for example jugg/guardian cooldowns are static (they can just pop then and keep fighting), a lot of the sniper/gunslinger cooldowns are movement related or require balance between dealing damage and escaping (the root wears out faster if you damage the target, the stun grenade breaks on damage), so you have to keep concentration all the time. This and positioning - the biggest mistake I used to make on my gunslinger was getting too close and then an opposing warrior charged me - this is a disaster (he's immune to any knockbacks/stuns for a few seconds, I can't move while he casts Ravage etc.).

[HelinCarnate]

Sorry, but MM is simply not a viable spec for ranked arenas (it's perfectly fine in regular warzones). Too much line-of-sight issues which good players will exploit, not enough survivability, most of your abilities rely on either long cast times or getting out of cover to refresh the proc, which is horribly risky in ranked.

 

Do have to agree there. Marksman is great when there are objectives to take/guard but not so much in ranked due to the crazy number of ways to break LOS and the need to be mobile.

[foxmob]

Since the nerf our sniper flash bang and boosts to our anti-classes. Snipers are totally out gunned..

 

you also got a RIDICULOUSLY HUGE dmg buff when they "fixed" white dmg. in one gcd (2 abils), I'll regularly see my merc's hp drop ~50%.

 

but as to your point: the meta in this game is designed around an archaic 8v8 and is still sluggishly progressing toward a 4v4, both of which being premade/group formats. what I'm getting at here is snipers are just fine with a competent healer and tank. they get shredded depending on class compositions in yolo queue because yolo pops with both a tank (let alone competent one) and a healer (let alone competent one) are few and far between.

 

my merc was globaled the other day by 2 sins and a pyro PT in an all dps match. at the time, I had HO, KO and shield up. I was madly prepressing medpac and adrenal when I disintegrated. I'm far from the greatest merc, but the problem isn't lack of dcds. it's that class cds, for the most part, are not designed to work in the most common "competitive" format of the game: solo rated. but if you balance classes for all dps matches or matches that lack both a tank and healer, then matches with both tanks and heals would always go to gas.

 

TL;DR: snipers are fine in balanced comps. they hit too hard if anything. fixing them for yolo will unhinge them in proper comps. fix matchmaking first. then address dmg/defense balance. this is an issue for every class. especially those without an OH SH*T! dcd.

[scylence]

umm if anything snipers need to be toned down. Maybe removing some of their CC is really what is needed. You are already the only class in the game that has a use anywhere toggle ability that hard counters the main ability of 2 other classes.

[discbox]

You are already the only class in the game that has a use anywhere toggle ability that hard counters the main ability of 2 other classes.

 

Which ones?

 

And why shouldn't there be any class that can counter them?

[DarthOvertone]

Snipers are totally out gunned.

 

No we're not. My Sniper melts faces more effectively than ever before, and it's not just because of the wheaties he eats.

Edited May 20, 2014 by DarthOvertone

[scylence]

Which ones?

 

And why shouldn't there be any class that can counter them?

 

because no other class has a hard counter for your. or other classes for that matter

[Groncho]

because no other class has a hard counter for your. or other classes for that matter

 

sure

but

wich ones pls

[scylence]

sure

but

wich ones pls

 

Cover vs Force leap/Charge

 

 

I'd bet sniper/slinger players would be in an extreme uproar if some High burst spec of another class was given an ability that has the same effect as your Diversion

 

 

 

It is something that is overlooked tremendously by non Sniper/Slinger player and even by Sniper/Slinger players themselves. The same thing happens to players of Stealth based classes, you will find they very often underplay or have trouble seeing the multitude of benefits stealth offers.

With the damage, utility, and what I mentioned above. The sniper/slingers shouldnt have all of that and a bag of CC, so I would say reduce/remove some of their CC potential (like immobilize on cover pulse), then MAYBE they can be looked at for some QoL for areas they are lacking (which I don't see)

[Ilintar]

I'd bet sniper/slinger players would be in an extreme uproar if some High burst spec of another class was given an ability that has the same effect as your Diversion

 

You wouldn't be pointing at sins and their Force Shroud by any chance?

Edited May 20, 2014 by Ilintar

[Groncho]

Cover vs Force leap/Charge

 

 

I'd bet sniper/slinger players would be in an extreme uproar if some High burst spec of another class was given an ability that has the same effect as your Diversion

 

 

 

It is something that is overlooked tremendously by non Sniper/Slinger player and even by Sniper/Slinger players themselves. The same thing happens to players of Stealth based classes, you will find they very often underplay or have trouble seeing the multitude of benefits stealth offers.

With the damage, utility, and what I mentioned above. The sniper/slingers shouldnt have all of that and a bag of CC, so I would say reduce/remove some of their CC potential (like immobilize on cover pulse), then MAYBE they can be looked at for some QoL for areas they are lacking (which I don't see)

 

so basically ur qq comes because u have a warrior/knight, and u think u should be able to get in range easily to just unload all ur cd's with no chance from the other player to avoid them

sounds legit

i am pretty sure that as a warrior/kngiht u have no burst, cloack, cc inmunity, shield or debuff to counter that

[scylence]

You wouldn't be pointing at sins and their Force Shroud by any chance?

 

That doesn't even make sense, fyi

 

 

so basically ur qq comes because u have a warrior/knight, and u think u should be able to get in range easily to just unload all ur cd's with no chance from the other player to avoid them

sounds legit

i am pretty sure that as a warrior/kngiht u have no burst, cloack, cc inmunity, shield or debuff to counter that

 

Oh here we go....

"Someone just unveiled something wrong with my class they must be QQing so I will respond with some crazy exaggerated story"

 

 

You realize I can easily just say the opposite?

"so basically your defensiveness and deflection comes because you play sniper/slinger, and you think you should be able to not only hard counter the main ability of another class,and have no one hard counter you, but have every tool in the game to make sure that no melee should ever be able to do anything to you unless you are afk."

 

See?

 

I play every class @ 55 PVP except Mando/Merc btw. The ones that tend to "collect dust" the most , are the ones I feel are blatantly overpowered (playing them too).

Edited May 20, 2014 by scylence

[Groncho]

T

 

 

 

"so basically your defensiveness and deflection comes because you play sniper/slinger, and you think you should be able to not only hard counter the main ability of another class,and have no one hard counter you, but have every tool in the game to make sure that no melee should ever be able to do anything to you unless you are afk."

 

See?

 

I

 

the only strong defense to snipers/gs is the ability of gett in range trough positioning, DCd's are useless xept the 3 sec dodge, srry man, all the other tools are designed to get range while doing damage