Not really ok with the interdiction mine nerf (PTR)

[Verain]

You might be a bit surprised, but I'm not ok with the interdiction mine nerf coming on the PTR.

 

On live, the mines deal 330 hull damage base. On the PTR, they deal 520 damage, but the damage is fully mitigated by shields. An additional nerf (that I'm fine with) reduces the magnitude of the rightmost tier 5 DPS boost from 30% down to 20%.

 

 

Now, the reason for this nerf is that the devs presumably find boy bombers (minelayers) to be too effective at holding nodes. On live, the combination of seismic and interdiction mines deals fatal hull damage in many cases. We can read this nerf as a belief that this damage is too high.

 

 

On live, the interdiction mine fully talented deals 429 hull damage- reduced by armor, but ignoring shields, and counting the full dot duration. You take this mine because it's the best at its job- defending nodes. It deals hull damage, and it applies a snare.

 

 

Here's my problem: post nerf, it won't be the best at its job in the eyes of all players. You may well decide it is the mine of choice- the snare is very powerful, and the increased raw damage can be viewed as being pretty solid.

 

But another view is simple: if you bought the mine and mastered it based on its ability to deal hull damage, you bought the wrong mine.

 

The correct mine is now concussion for this job.

 

Concussion, talented for hull damage, will have 20% armor piercing. It will deal about 219 damage straight to hull (again, armor won't be ignored). The remainder will be dealt to shields.

 

 

 

So, I want any of:

 

 

1)- Revert the nerf.

 

Ups: Doesn't mess with you for buying the mine.

Downs: Doesn't fix the problem the devs are trying to address.

 

2)- Refund everyone's ship req on their interdiction mines.

 

Ups: This is ideal in theory, because if you like interdiction mine, you can just buy it immediately, and if you want to try out a different mine, you can. It doesn't handle the cases of people spending fleet req or coins, but it's still something.

Downs: Unprecedented, and probably technically difficult for them. Also hard to explain, players could get confused.

 

3)- Provide enough shield piercing such that this mine remains superior at this role (this would be about 250 hull damage).

 

Ups: This nerfs the mine, and keeps everyone who bought their interdiction mines happy.

Downs: The mine would still be doing this hull damage AND still be snaring- it might not be enough of a nerf to get where the devs want to go.

 

4)- Provide a bit of shield piercing, and possibly remove some from concussion, compensating concussion in some way.

 

Ups: This can do what the devs want it to do.

Downs: It modifies another component, one that is probably ok.

 

 

 

 

In any event, I don't want to see a component with 100% shield piercing turned into a component with 0% shield piercing after spending 70k req and a few cartel coins on it over all the bombers. That really is a bait and switch, and to not get a respec really feels unfair.

 

 

This isn't just an adjustment- it's basically a new component with the same name. It could well improve the game, but there should be a way to do that without screwing over players who spend req.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Verain

[tunewalker]

You might be a bit surprised, but I'm not ok with the interdiction mine nerf coming on the PTR.

 

On live, the mines deal 330 hull damage base. On the PTR, they deal 520 damage, but the damage is fully mitigated by shields. An additional nerf (that I'm fine with) reduces the magnitude of the rightmost tier 5 DPS boost from 30% down to 20%.

 

 

Now, the reason for this nerf is that the devs presumably find boy bombers (minelayers) to be too effective at holding nodes. On live, the combination of seismic and interdiction mines deals fatal hull damage in many cases. We can read this nerf as a belief that this damage is too high.

 

 

On live, the interdiction mine fully talented deals 429 hull damage- reduced by armor, but ignoring shields, and counting the full dot duration. You take this mine because it's the best at its job- defending nodes. It deals hull damage, and it applies a snare.

 

 

Here's my problem: post nerf, it won't be the best at its job in the eyes of all players. You may well decide it is the mine of choice- the snare is very powerful, and the increased raw damage can be viewed as being pretty solid.

 

But another view is simple: if you bought the mine and mastered it based on its ability to deal hull damage, you bought the wrong mine.

 

The correct mine is now concussion for this job.

 

Concussion, talented for hull damage, will have 20% armor piercing. It will deal about 219 damage straight to hull (again, armor won't be ignored). The remainder will be dealt to shields.

 

 

 

So, I want any of:

 

 

1)- Revert the nerf.

 

Ups: Doesn't mess with you for buying the mine.

Downs: Doesn't fix the problem the devs are trying to address.

 

2)- Refund everyone's ship req on their interdiction mines.

 

Ups: This is ideal in theory, because if you like interdiction mine, you can just buy it immediately, and if you want to try out a different mine, you can. It doesn't handle the cases of people spending fleet req or coins, but it's still something.

Downs: Unprecedented, and probably technically difficult for them. Also hard to explain, players could get confused.

 

3)- Provide enough shield piercing such that this mine remains superior at this role (this would be about 250 hull damage).

 

Ups: This nerfs the mine, and keeps everyone who bought their interdiction mines happy.

Downs: The mine would still be doing this hull damage AND still be snaring- it might not be enough of a nerf to get where the devs want to go.

 

4)- Provide a bit of shield piercing, and possibly remove some from concussion, compensating concussion in some way.

 

Ups: This can do what the devs want it to do.

Downs: It modifies another component, one that is probably ok.

 

 

 

 

In any event, I don't want to see a component with 100% shield piercing turned into a component with 0% shield piercing after spending 70k req and a few cartel coins on it over all the bombers. That really is a bait and switch, and to not get a respec really feels unfair.

 

 

This isn't just an adjustment- it's basically a new component with the same name. It could well improve the game, but there should be a way to do that without screwing over players who spend req.

 

Ohh your going to hate me but it feels like a tough crud moment in my opinion. Nerfs happen and we know they would. People who bought it for damage and not the buff (I am included in these people) should not instantly be rewarded honestly. If you have played enough time on it to master this mine, it wont take you much more to master another. Also it doesnt make the mine that you DO have mastered to weak.

Its not nerfed into uselessness its just nerfed so that it does its intended role instead of every role. They didnt refund anything when they nerfed engine maneuvers. Nor did they refund anything the times they nerfed evasion, or refund anything when they added EMP missiles or buffed Ion Missiles the tad bit that they did.

 

Does it suck for those that bought it for the damage? Yes.... but should the mine have EVER been used for that damage to begin with.... no. Basically those that used it for its unintended purpose now still have it for its intended purpose but will now have to live with their choice initially.

 

if it was being nerfed to uselessness I might agree...... but its not. its still argueably the strongest Mine choice for the debuff alone. They never refunded anything else. i see no reason for them to start now.

[General_Brass]

Refunding the requisition for the mine seems most reasonable. At this point however, I doubt the devs care about the negative feelings GSF generates.

[Verain]

Nerfs happen and we know they would.

 

Did we know that? I mean, burst laser cannon, still cruising strong right?

 

I really dislike this attitude. As an MMO player, you should definitely be prepared for stuff to change. But there's a big difference between an adjustment and a redesign- and an even larger difference between a redesign and one you can't spec out of.

 

People who bought it for damage and not the buff (I am included in these people) should not instantly be rewarded honestly.

 

Why? Why not? The snare on this mine is monster. I've seen people advocating the removal of the snare. Were we supposed to psychically sense that out of:

 

Interdiction mine, which pierces shield but not armor, and applies a snare,

Seismic mine, which pierces shield but not armor and hits for a whole lot,

Charged plating, which results in 99% reduction of incoming damage

 

That (a) not only was it too powerful but (b) the part that needs to change is specifically the shield piercing on interdiction mine?

 

 

Its not nerfed into uselessness its just nerfed so that it does its intended role instead of every role.

 

Many pilots will agree with you, but some will not. If you bought it for shield ignore, why would you expect that this part would be deleted? And do we have to play like flavor-of-the-month, where a good component gets blasted away but we can't even respec?

 

They didnt refund anything when they nerfed engine maneuvers.

 

Totally, completely different. When they nerfed engine maneuvers:

 

1)- They all still broke missile locks.

2)- They nerfed them in differing amounts.

3)- Engine maneuvers are like, a whole lot cheaper.

 

If you were on a gunship, the barrel roll nerf meant you couldn't barrel roll as often. It didn't mean you chose the wrong component for "break missiles and move across the map". Which is why you bought it. It became less effective at its job- it didn't become rotational thrusters.

 

Nor did they refund anything the times they nerfed evasion

 

I would have said they should, had evasion been deleted and all components and secondaries related to it become "+healing received". Evasion is still evasion. Distortion field didn't get changed to reduce damage incoming by 15%, it got changed to have less burst evasion. Same component, different strength.

 

 

or refund anything when they added EMP missiles

 

If EMP missiles had been added as wholly superior to concussion, I would have been here asking for a refund. Instead they were added to bring a new power to the game.

 

or buffed Ion Missiles the tad bit that they did.

 

Again, this buff made ion missiles useful at their job- it didn't give them the job of clusters.

 

Does it suck for those that bought it for the damage? Yes.... but should the mine have EVER been used for that damage to begin with.... no.

 

Nonsense. Of course they should be used for the damage. It's not like there was a flag on it saying it was unfair.

 

 

This is a new component. A requisition refund is entirely appropriate, so that each player can repurchase it or try out one of the other two mines.

 

 

 

More importantly, it's a bad precedent to set.

[Ryuku-sama]

You might be a bit surprised, but I'm not ok with the interdiction mine nerf coming on the PTR.

 

On live, the mines deal 330 hull damage base. On the PTR, they deal 520 damage, but the damage is fully mitigated by shields. An additional nerf (that I'm fine with) reduces the magnitude of the rightmost tier 5 DPS boost from 30% down to 20%.

 

 

Now, the reason for this nerf is that the devs presumably find boy bombers (minelayers) to be too effective at holding nodes. On live, the combination of seismic and interdiction mines deals fatal hull damage in many cases. We can read this nerf as a belief that this damage is too high.

 

 

On live, the interdiction mine fully talented deals 429 hull damage- reduced by armor, but ignoring shields, and counting the full dot duration. You take this mine because it's the best at its job- defending nodes. It deals hull damage, and it applies a snare.

 

 

Here's my problem: post nerf, it won't be the best at its job in the eyes of all players. You may well decide it is the mine of choice- the snare is very powerful, and the increased raw damage can be viewed as being pretty solid.

 

But another view is simple: if you bought the mine and mastered it based on its ability to deal hull damage, you bought the wrong mine.

 

The correct mine is now concussion for this job.

 

Concussion, talented for hull damage, will have 20% armor piercing. It will deal about 219 damage straight to hull (again, armor won't be ignored). The remainder will be dealt to shields.

 

 

 

So, I want any of:

 

 

1)- Revert the nerf.

 

Ups: Doesn't mess with you for buying the mine.

Downs: Doesn't fix the problem the devs are trying to address.

 

2)- Refund everyone's ship req on their interdiction mines.

 

Ups: This is ideal in theory, because if you like interdiction mine, you can just buy it immediately, and if you want to try out a different mine, you can. It doesn't handle the cases of people spending fleet req or coins, but it's still something.

Downs: Unprecedented, and probably technically difficult for them. Also hard to explain, players could get confused.

 

3)- Provide enough shield piercing such that this mine remains superior at this role (this would be about 250 hull damage).

 

Ups: This nerfs the mine, and keeps everyone who bought their interdiction mines happy.

Downs: The mine would still be doing this hull damage AND still be snaring- it might not be enough of a nerf to get where the devs want to go.

 

4)- Provide a bit of shield piercing, and possibly remove some from concussion, compensating concussion in some way.

 

Ups: This can do what the devs want it to do.

Downs: It modifies another component, one that is probably ok.

 

 

 

 

In any event, I don't want to see a component with 100% shield piercing turned into a component with 0% shield piercing after spending 70k req and a few cartel coins on it over all the bombers. That really is a bait and switch, and to not get a respec really feels unfair.

 

 

This isn't just an adjustment- it's basically a new component with the same name. It could well improve the game, but there should be a way to do that without screwing over players who spend req.

 

You gonna hate me but you are wrong.... Interdiction were meant to snare its targets not to kill them. We bought it for its hull damage cuz we saw an oppurtunity devs didn't see. DOT. You choosed the wrong upgrade, then suck for you. Grind 35k on your boy bomber and suck it up.

To give you a ground comparaison... Ops/Scound lolrol buff-nerf... lolroll was and is still a quick movement/escape. Interdiction was and is still a snare. Everything else , on both, changed or will change with 2.8. Both kept their main goal (movement/snare). Both changed in every other way. And beside, if you have only Interdiction upgraded on your bomber, you aren't flying it enough (which is kinda nice) or you spend your req i don't want to know where.

[General_Brass]

You gonna hate me but you are wrong.... Interdiction were meant to snare its targets not to kill them. We bought it for its hull damage cuz we saw an oppurtunity devs didn't see. DOT. You choosed the wrong upgrade, then suck for you. Grind 35k on your boy bomber and suck it up.

To give you a ground comparaison... Ops/Scound lolrol buff-nerf... lolroll was and is still a quick movement/escape. Interdiction was and is still a snare. Everything else , on both, changed or will change with 2.8. Both kept their main goal (movement/snare). Both changed in every other way. And beside, if you have only Interdiction upgraded on your bomber, you aren't flying it enough (which is kinda nice) or you spend your req i don't want to know where.

 

You're going to hate me but he is right.

Making players pay for dev F***ups is bad policy.

[DamascusAdontise]

For the first time I really have to question the logic of your hypothesis:

 

For me it reads as this: nerf is bad because it changes the nature of the mine, and its not fair to people who talented into the mine for its shield piercing ability.

 

This in and of itself is a very weak reason to ask for a rollback of the nerf. We can assume the dev's felt this mine was unbalanced, and have changed it so that it's in line with their original intention for the mine. Since it was OVERLY powerful to start with I don't see any issue with this.

 

The other part of your post says the nerf is bad because people will no longer "think of interdfiction as a premium combo" thus somehow making bombers weaker by thought alone. For one, how can you know what people will think? If so tell me thats a neat trick! secondly what does it matter what anyone thinks? IMO it doesn't.

 

Lastly, I understand that in other parts of the game when changes are made, they give you your SP back so you can re-invest. Has this ever been done in GSF though? I don't think it has, at least in my memory. Its like saying people who spec'd into BR deserve a refund after 2.7. We didn't get it nor did we need it.

 

If your complaint was that bombers were too weak on PTS in comparison with live then you might have an argument, but as it stands the logical arguments your using are very weak. Sorry bro usually im right there with ya, but not this time heh.

 

I think most generally agree that interdiction was overpowered, especially coupled with seismic. I think only time will tell if the nerf is too heavy handed, tactics in live IMO Are the only way to prove this one way or another. PTS is just too confined in player base to be worth any big time testing. I guess we will see.

 

(Edit) I guess if your saying you want component refunds upon massive changes thats one thing. I might agree with that, but it is certainly not the status quo and interdiction mine is not the first talent to be treated this way: rocket pods come to mind as an immediate example)

Edited May 13, 2014 by DamascusAdontise

[tunewalker]

Did we know that? I mean, burst laser cannon, still cruising strong right?

 

I really dislike this attitude. As an MMO player, you should definitely be prepared for stuff to change. But there's a big difference between an adjustment and a redesign- and an even larger difference between a redesign and one you can't spec out of.

 

 

 

Why? Why not? The snare on this mine is monster. I've seen people advocating the removal of the snare. Were we supposed to psychically sense that out of:

 

Interdiction mine, which pierces shield but not armor, and applies a snare,

Seismic mine, which pierces shield but not armor and hits for a whole lot,

Charged plating, which results in 99% reduction of incoming damage

 

That (a) not only was it too powerful but (b) the part that needs to change is specifically the shield piercing on interdiction mine?

 

 

 

 

Many pilots will agree with you, but some will not. If you bought it for shield ignore, why would you expect that this part would be deleted? And do we have to play like flavor-of-the-month, where a good component gets blasted away but we can't even respec?

 

 

 

Totally, completely different. When they nerfed engine maneuvers:

 

1)- They all still broke missile locks.

2)- They nerfed them in differing amounts.

3)- Engine maneuvers are like, a whole lot cheaper.

 

If you were on a gunship, the barrel roll nerf meant you couldn't barrel roll as often. It didn't mean you chose the wrong component for "break missiles and move across the map". Which is why you bought it. It became less effective at its job- it didn't become rotational thrusters.

 

 

 

I would have said they should, had evasion been deleted and all components and secondaries related to it become "+healing received". Evasion is still evasion. Distortion field didn't get changed to reduce damage incoming by 15%, it got changed to have less burst evasion. Same component, different strength.

 

 

 

 

If EMP missiles had been added as wholly superior to concussion, I would have been here asking for a refund. Instead they were added to bring a new power to the game.

 

 

 

Again, this buff made ion missiles useful at their job- it didn't give them the job of clusters.

 

 

 

Nonsense. Of course they should be used for the damage. It's not like there was a flag on it saying it was unfair.

 

 

This is a new component. A requisition refund is entirely appropriate, so that each player can repurchase it or try out one of the other two mines.

 

 

 

More importantly, it's a bad precedent to set.

 

It hasnt LOST its intended roll, just like evasion didnt lose its roll. Its intended roll was obvious by its name. Interdiction. Thus its no different then the other nerfs they didnt refund. Or the other buffs that were made. It hasnt lost its intended roll. Its lost its player abused roll. Abusing a mechanic is still abuse.

[Kalphitis]

This happens in MMOs all the time. Abilities get nerfed/boosted depending on what needs balanced.

 

It's only when very large scale changes are made, that people get their talent points reset so they can 'respec' for free.

 

We're talking about one ability, not a large scale change.

 

On a side note, if huge changes are ever made to GSF - I think it would be cool if the developers took away everybody's abilities and refunded their total lifetime requisition points so that they can 'respec' into any abilities they want on any ship. Not that I think huge changes will ever happen, but you know....

[Altheran]

Its lost its player abused roll. Abusing a mechanic is still abuse.

 

I have to agree with this. It was obvious that it was wrong, and people using that combination for that very reason should know that it wouldn't last, and that the nerf hammer would come to forbid this mine being better at killing than concussion.

 

It was obviously unintended purpose. Not main purpose. Main purpose is still intact.

[Verain]

Using a mine for damage is an exploit?

 

Lemme guess: everything a battle scout does is intended.

[Elly_Dawn]

i don't get this "Battle Scout" as an insult nonsense... if a scout isn't meant for battle what is it meant for? just flying around dropping sensor beacons?..

[Altheran]

Using a mine for damage is an exploit?

 

Lemme guess: everything a battle scout does is intended.

 

No. Using an effect mine as a better damaging choice than a damaging mine, is.

 

Using Sabotage Probe for better damage than Cluster (in a world where it would be possible), would be as well.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Altheran

[Devrius]

You know how they refund all points in the skill tree when they make changes?

 

I really don't see why they couldn't have done this with GSF, for that matter why not spend the reqs per component type and not individual components...

 

So after spendingt 23.5k on Primary Weapon you have access to the full tree of all unlocked primaries on that ship but can only have one chosen (changin requires CC to compensate the ship to fleet reqs exchange) and all points are refunded every time a component is nerfed/buffed/changed.

[Nemarus]

Anyone who figured out the Seismic / Interdiction Mine combo early on has been reaping ill-gotten victory requisition since 2.4 released--far more than 35500 I suspect. I know I have, or at least I did until my conscience got the better of me.

 

Of course, for those who only jumped on the SIM bandwagon after reading my posts about how overpowered it is, you took a risk in investing (late) in something that so many were demanding be nerfed--doubly so if you used CC to do it. And honestly, you deserve to pay some price for being so bad at reading tooltips

 

Besides, even after the nerf, Interdiction Mine is still the best anti-Scout System Mine available, and if you choose Concussion (or Ion lol), you're probably still gimping yourself and your team.

[Kuciwalker]

I'm calling derp on the OP. Wah wah I wanted my massive shield piercing wah wah. Use a goddamn concussion mine if you want to deal lots of damage with some shield piercing.

[Verain]

i don't get this "Battle Scout" as an insult nonsense... if a scout isn't meant for battle what is it meant for? just flying around dropping sensor beacons?..

 

"Battle scout" is the name of the type 2 scout. It is not an insult. The equivalent names for other ships are "rail sniper", "command strike", "support scout", "minelayer", etc.

 

When you talk about the ships that really shapethe meta, the type 1 gunship (rail sniper), the type 1 bomber (minelayer aka "boy bomber"), and the type 2 scout (battle scout) all come up.

 

 

 

So the claim that we've all been exploiting by using the mine for its intended purpose of ignoring shields is ludicrous, just as it would be silly to massively redesign some feature of the battle scout, such as doubling the rate of fire on burst laser cannon while keeping the dps the same, etc. Just as it is silly to imply that the battle scout pilot is exploiting, cheating, or playing with poor sportsmanship, it is equally silly to imply that of the minelayer.

 

 

That's my point.

 

 

You know how they refund all points in the skill tree when they make changes?

 

I really don't see why they couldn't have done this with GSF, for that matter why not spend the reqs per component type and not individual components...

 

This is, I think we can assume, the best solution from a theoretical standpoint. Anyone who is opposed to this is pretty much mean spirited and wants bomber pilots to have wasted requisition (and in some cases dollars), versus just wanting the game to be a better place. It's a pretty good litmus test over who wants to play a good game, and who just wants to screw over people.

 

 

ill-gotten victory requisition

 

Get out of here and go complain on a chess forum that it's nonsense that the queen can move so far. Don't come in and talk down to us about how the game SHOULD be played. The game SHOULD be played the way the devs delivered it- and that's with two shield ignoring mines. If they decide that's bad, for every reason you've already detailed, then they should make that change- but it shouldn't screw over the players who made the correct decision.

 

 

This was never an exploit. This wasn't railgun drones stuck inside satellites, this isn't something that exploits a rule. This is mines doing what their tooltips say in manners confirmed as correct by devs.

 

 

Of course, for those who only jumped on the SIM bandwagon after reading my posts about how overpowered it is,

 

I don't know who you are even addressing. The power of the seismic / interdiction combo was literally obvious on the PTR, announced by Stasie casually, and visibly by inspection at dulfy. Bastion was running this on bombermas morn, but I'm glad you also have eyes like the rest of us.

 

Yes, you are correct that anyone who has read a guide, such as Stasie's compendium, your cry posts, or has asked and received advice from you, me, drako, or any other players trying to train newbies, is MOST screwed over, because they won't have all the requisition. Given that I'm popping 70k+ req on all ships the moment 2.8 hits AND have tons of boy bomber req as it is, you can rest assured that I don't even remotely lose anything.

 

 

Who might my post actually be defending? Could it be the more casual players we've been instructing in correct play who are now getting trolled by devs with no compensation? Could it be the same people we write guides for constantly? Could it just be wrong to redesign a component from "pick me to deal damage to the hull of scouts" to "pick me to snare things" without a respec?

 

 

 

Use a gosh darn concussion mine if you want to deal lots of damage with some shield piercing.

 

That's my point- most players won't have requisition for this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone who posted in here opposed to a respec for those of us who are actually playing the game that the devs gave us is wildly mean spirited.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Verain

[Verain]

Wah wah I wanted my massive shield piercing wah wah.

 

Can you please cite the part of the post that qualifies is that? I really want to know how badly you can mangle such a post. I'm betting you'll have to like, start quoting a thought and then cut it off, or something.

[Ryuku-sama]

That's my point- most players won't have requisition for this.

 

Oh!! Because flying a stock Concussion Mine isn't fair.... To use something we all say too newbies.. "Geasr doesn't matter, skill does. So you're whining cause you don't want to grind a few more req (considering you already grinded at least 4 times more than that on your mastered bomber only). Do us a favor. Be consistant in your position through the thread. Is it gear or skill that matter?

 

Second... The intended Interdiction Mine's use was what already??? Oh!! I remember now!! Being the more powerful CC short of Sabo.Probe.

 

Third... Requisition aren't limited, req just show how mcuh you fly. There is no req cap (except when you have upgraded every single component on your ship).

[Verain]

Oh!! Because flying a stock Concussion Mine isn't fair.... To use something we all say too newbies.. "Geasr doesn't matter, skill does. So you're whining cause you don't want to grind a few more req (considering you already grinded at least 4 times more than that on your mastered bomber only). Do us a favor. Be consistant in your position through the thread. Is it gear or skill that matter?

 

Did you mistake this for an entirely different thread?

 

First: When 2.8 hits, I'll have 70k requisition on all ships, including bombers. I'll have whatever mines I feel like on them, and I actually think I'll likely stick with interdiction- though I'll experiment with concussion.

 

Second: Skill mattering much more than gear is truly not relevant. The fact of the matter is, if you have to choose how you level with the req you earn, it isn't ok to redesign a component and force the req to be earned.

 

Gear could matter basically not at all and it wouldn't change my position in this post even remotely. Now stop trying to change the topic or pretend that because I've pointed out stock pilots absolutely wrecking premades on the other side that this has any bearing on this thread at all.

 

 

Second... The intended Interdiction Mine's use was what already??? Oh!! I remember now!! Being the more powerful CC short of Sabo.Probe.

 

Good job grand poo-bah. I'm sure you'd be saying the opposite if the devs had instead removed the snare, or had instead reduced the seismic's damage, or had instead removed or reduced the seismic's shield piercing. If only we had listened to whatever babble you had offered, and played a game that didn't exist instead of one that did. Oh woe is us.

 

 

Third... Requisition aren't limited, req just show how mcuh you fly. There is no req cap (except when you have upgraded every single component on your ship).

 

 

Req is very limited for some players, get it? The ones that will log on and be ineffective on their fleet support crafts that they created to play with their friends. "Come play GSF! Hopefully the devs won't break your toys every patch!" Do the friends you brought to this game play as much as you? Do they have a bank tab of req tabs ready to pop?u

Edited May 13, 2014 by Verain

[Nemarus]

I thought Bombers are deleted now, so why would you want Bomber requisition?

 

I have no reason to even acknowledge the merits of your post, since you so rarely acknowledge those of others. And the fact that you're still calling my Bomber threads "cry" threads, even though the devs have now vindicated the crux of my complaint, shows that you really aren't worthy of respect or serious discussion anymore.

 

The irony is that I once made a post, way back when, calling for some sort of requisition refund system.

 

But ultimately an argument swayed me to drop it: if you refund people's requisition, it just means people will move from FOTM to FOTM over and over again. Whereas without a refund, people without huge stockpiles of requisition will need to do some hard thinking about whether they want to devote time to redirecting to the new "best" in slot. And if they do decide to, then at least it will take them some time to do so.

 

That creates "settling periods" after each big change or nerf. And I think those settling periods tend to be the times when GSF is most fun. You know, when everyone is exploring and trying out different ships/components, before the Instinct to be Optimal kicks in.

[Luneward]

 

So the claim that we've all been exploiting by using the mine for its intended purpose of ignoring shields is ludicrous, just as it would be silly to massively redesign some feature of the battle scout, such as doubling the rate of fire on burst laser cannon while keeping the dps the same, etc. Just as it is silly to imply that the battle scout pilot is exploiting, cheating, or playing with poor sportsmanship, it is equally silly to imply that of the minelayer.

 

 

Its 'intended purpose' is the snare. The shield piercing was just the icing on the cake (that really shouldn't have been there in the first place). It's pretty clear that shield ignore is seismic's purpose since that is all it can do - deal damage. And as Nemarus pointed out it's probably still the best support mine you can use because of the snare effect - a minor sab probe you don't have to establish a lock with so to speak. I'm not sure why they should refund requisition when it is still probably the best choice for its class unless you're going for a raw damage build.

 

And you don't think for a moment that being able to deploy two shield ignore mines on a single bomber was a smidge overpowered? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only weapon before bombers that could completely ignore shields was a proton torp, and now a single craft has two such weapons that can be deployed while turtling? Yeah, this should have never gone live in this fashion and deserves the nerf bat. Be glad they buffed its damage at all in compensation. It still has its intended effect. Its damage was just brought more in line so an actual damage mine isn't completely outclassed by it any more.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Luneward

[Rollory]

That's my point- most players won't have requisition for this.

 

Oh blah blah blah cry me a river. It's trivial to earn it back. I've spent tens of thousands worth of req on components I decided nah, I don't actually want that. I don't go whining that someone should kiss my booboo and make it better, I just play more and earn the req on the components I do want.

 

If you've mastered interdiction mines, congratulations, you've mastered a device that works pretty good at stopping a hostile dead in its tracks. That's what interdiction is supposed to do. Especially paired with the seismic slow option. Seismic always was doing the majority of the damage, I've been EMPed often enough in my bomber anyway, this nerf decreases effectiveness a bit but not drastically and certainly it's not something to complain about like this. This is a giant whine about something absolutely trivial and largely irrelevant.

 

Also, the dronecarrier is the male bomber, especially the pub versions. It has one forward projection. The minelayer has two. Case closed.

 

Rhodogast / Kelril, The Ebon Hawk

[Zharik]

it just means people will move from FOTM to FOTM over and over again.

 

Quoted for Truth

[Elly_Dawn]

"Battle scout" is the name of the type 2 scout. It is not an insult. The equivalent names for other ships are "rail sniper", "command strike", "support scout", "minelayer", etc

 

oh, okay, i get it, it's the Type 2 scout, the one i won't fly because it's too ugly... yes i decide what i will play based on how it looks, and so far the only ship not too ugly to fly is the Blackbolt because unlike all the other Imperial ships it actually looks cool... the Bloodmark despite it's cool design is an aesthetic/function contradiction, the Sting is just ugly with horrible looking loadouts, and the Ocula is just eye-bleedingly ugly to look at... so i stick with the only good looking ship of the bunch, if Bloodmark made sense i'd use that one too, honestly i think they should palate-swap Blackbolt and Bloodmark to make aesthetic sense...