CheechMacho Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 If you have all those 55 and need anything explained to you about this game then there is no way anyone can explain anything to you in any way you could understand it. Way to be constructive and add good value to the thread. I haven't updated my signature but to really blow your mind, I also have a 55 Gunslinger, Commando, and Shadow. Is it possible I have a better perspective than you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheechMacho Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 The other thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that Madness specs are known for having horrible Force management issues, which is part of the reason for the uncleansable DOTs; having to reapply DOT's every 4.5 sec just eats through our Force reserves even faster than it already does! As a fellow Sorc I can feel your pain when it comes to Force management. I could start a whole new thread about Sorcs having to use Consumption when Operatives can use Adrenaline Probe and Commando/Mercs can Reload without having to kill themselves some. Let me make it clear... I'm not trying to hurt or damage Madness Sins/Sorcs at all. I play a Sorc too, but I don't understand how having a FULL spec'd healer be able to cleanse DoTs be so game breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEKHAN Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Look, Healers can give people 'Healing over time' so a DPS has the ability to do 'Damage over time'. It's called a counter. Healers can put them on multiple targets, so a DPS can do it too. DPS cannot cleanse a Heal over time on an enemy player and so an enemy player cannot cleanse the damage your doing to him. What your asking is to be able to stop all damage from one perticular class with one button press... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordorian Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 What your asking is to be able to stop all damage from one perticular class with one button press... With that reason you could also remove shroud/resilience from the game, it is 4s of god mode against sorcs (and not only them). Pre 2.5 madness dots were cleansible by fully specced sorc healers and them only. Some people in here are talking as if that back then madness was completely unviable, but in reality it wasnt. Do people really think a healer has nothing better to do to shut down one madness sorc, when his team is taking dathenmage from multiple sources? Even back then madness (sorc) usually produced more damage overall then unnerfed smash in an average wz, so please tell me how you were completely cleansed out of your damage. In 8v8 ranked madness hardly had a place but the reason was more that in general burst was preferred to sustained (with the exception of lethality for snipers) and lightning was in pretty solid place there. I 'd like to remind again about the massive population of sorc/sage healers in ranked arenas (yolo and group). It is least viable healing class for this anyway even before uncleansible madness, but after 2.5 there really was next to no reason to bring a sorc healer. I repeat uncleansible dots are lazy and bad design, because they remove options, choice and some level skill (on both part of the healer and the applying dps). Let's face it madness (sorcs again) is one of the easier trees to play anyway, and uncleansible dots just made it even easier because you dont have to think about cleanses anymore, you can just mindlessly apply your dots and do massive damage on the scoreboard, if you got the sorc basics down. A buff to madness or (in general) sorc enegry management in would have been better, but it is like with operatives in 2.6 we asked for survivability and got our damage buffed (well maybe 2.8 will fix that). An yeah it is not only madness that has force problems, and you really dont wanna sacrifies your own health as healer once you got low on force:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatRacer Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 As we've already established, Madness sorcs have neither high burst, nor high sustainability. So having uncleansable DOTs is the simplest way for them to be able to maintain pressure on the enemy. Another thing to factor in is that half the classes out there have Purges that do remove these DOTs, so that you don't have to. And in most cases, these purges are on a reasonable cooldown of about a minute or so (which is frustrating enough as it is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Pre 2.5 madness dots were cleansible by fully specced sorc healers and them only. ... I 'd like to remind again about the massive population of sorc/sage healers in ranked arenas (yolo and group). It is least viable healing class for this anyway even before uncleansible madness, but after 2.5 there really was next to no reason to bring a sorc healer. Fact is that you don't want this because you think that madness is too strong, but only for making corruption more viable. What it would mean for the madness specc, that doesn't really bother you. Equally you could also ask for a force debuff that only fully corruption-specced sorcs can place on maras/juggs and that prevents them from using force leap for 1 minute. It would completely break these classes but hey! Corruption sorcs would be really desirable for ranked then! DoTs are a madness sorc's elementary attack. To deny them would be like denying medics their HoTs, or maras their force leap, or corruption sorcs their casted heals. It doesn't make any sense to break one class' design only for the purpose of giving another class a taylored counter against that design. Think about it. Edited May 14, 2014 by Cretinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Fact is that you don't want this because you think that madness is too strong, but only for making corruption more viable. What it would mean for the madness specc, that doesn't really bother you. Equally you could also ask for a force debuff that only fully corruption-specced sorcs can place on maras/juggs and that prevents them from using force leap for 1 minute. It would completely break these classes but hey! Corruption sorcs would be really desirable for ranked then! No, they wouldn't as operatives would still be the better choice because there are 8 classes and not only 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheechMacho Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Fact is that you don't want this because you think that madness is too strong, but only for making corruption more viable. Yes we want Corruption to be more viable. It's the least desirable healing spec to play in RWZ. And yes, we don't think Madness is too strong. It's just fine. Top of the leaderboards in Reg WZ and viable in Ranked WZ. It doesn't make any sense to break one class' design only for the purpose of giving another class a taylored counter against that design. Think about it. There are 24 trees and if this change happened you would still have 23 that could not cleanse your DoT. How does that break your class design? And since you brought up Lethality, why can Operatives cleanse their DoT? How is that not game breaking for that spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheechMacho Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 How about this solution as a middle ground.... Corruption can only cleanse it on themselves and not others to give them more survivability to try to heal thru everyone else's DoTs? In addition, remove the Global on Consumption? At least if we are going to kill ourselves for force at least we don't lose a global doing it so we can get another heal off? Is that unreasonable? Thoughts? Suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) How about this solution as a middle ground.... Corruption can only cleanse it on themselves and not others to give them more survivability to try to heal thru everyone else's DoTs? In addition, remove the Global on Consumption? At least if we are going to kill ourselves for force at least we don't lose a global doing it so we can get another heal off? Is that unreasonable? Thoughts? Suggestions? It sounds better than your former request, yes. But I've been playing WZs the whole afternoon with an eye on sorc/sage healers. Sorry to tell, but you guys don't need more survivability. It's good enough. It already takes a few people to get rid of a sorc/sage healer and madness DoTs are an important counter for doing this. What you guys actually need is a nerf to operative medics, so that your specc becomes viable compared to them. This has nothing to do with your own survivability, but with medics having a god like mode. My suggestion would be that sorc/sage healers should be able to offensively cleanse HoTs, in particular medic HoTs. This would put you guys in a much better position towards medics, and at the same time bring medics back to earth, but without touching DPS balance. Cause DPS balance is actually not bad, currently. Edit: I've started a new topic with this sugestion. Feel free to post in there if you think that the idea is worth to be discussed. Edited May 14, 2014 by Cretinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telaan Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Feel free to post in there if you think that the idea is worth to be discussed. It's not..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts