Icestar Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Even if this would have zero effect to overgeared people's stats I can still foresee people running with Tython gear to avoid repairs and justify ninja-needs would like dev comment about this issue It will not matter that much if someone ninja-needs on 162 gear or use greens to use bolster to the maximum extent. They said in some cantina event that the levels will be raised soon anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 So if we don't want to use GF, do we get equal amount of comms? If we don't, F this Bolster noob garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 So if we don't want to use GF, do we get equal amount of comms? If we don't, F this Bolster noob garbage. It's not garbage getting more people to see the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 It's not garbage getting more people to see the content. Yes, Bolster as a tool to get more people interessted in operations is cool, but as soon as they add it to hm ops they'll lose me. (Don't get me wrong, I don't think they will ever do that) And I hope the bolster is realised well, if they bolster the people with some random stats (<100% accuracy for dps, accuracy for tanks, alacrity for dps/tanks or something like that) this feature will be pretty useless for underequipped players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuglebunny Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) All opposition to this is completely nonsensical. ONLY SM ops through GF will be bolstered. SM ops you form on your own will NOT be bolstered. HM ops and NIM not bolstered and why would they ever? You cant complain about not gettting daily GF comms if you dont do it cuz that would be your choice. Its not in GF now(other than the2 and they dont pop), you are not getting daily comms now. NOTHING NOTHING WHATSOEVER changes for people currently doing SM ops or harder ones. I have been Que'd for OPS in GF since april and NOT ONE POP! I would like to do an op for the first time in 2 years of playing. This will facilitate that. I cannot imagine what sort of valid argument there would possibly be to not do this. Edited May 13, 2014 by Smuglebunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 All opposition to this is completely nonsensical. The only opposition I have are the massive amounts of ultimate comms that will be available for this easy content (12/16 from the weekly, 30 from the gf daily, 4 [or were it 6?] from every boss) and that can be done 4 times a week This together with the GF change to 16man and craftable 180 gear will produce even more players with "good" gear and no idea of how to play their class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuglebunny Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) The only opposition I have are the massive amounts of ultimate comms that will be available for this easy content (12/16 from the weekly, 30 from the gf daily, 4 [or were it 6?] from every boss) and that can be done 4 times a week This together with the GF change to 16man and craftable 180 gear will produce even more players with "good" gear and no idea of how to play their class. Isnt it better if the bads you are forced to play with are at least geared? Wouldnt that be good? Cuz they are in the game now. But you have a better chance of carring them if you have to if they have better gear. So that doesnt seem like a drawback, to me. More geared players, faster pops, less wipes. And they WILL eventually learn to play, especially if they are having fun and progressing. Plus if they are really bad they will hit a wall at the hardmode anyway without bolster. Edited May 13, 2014 by Smuglebunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 my concern is that much like what happened with wow, everyone will stop putting pugs together & start using that horrid raid finder thing. it is indeed a concern worth noting. that said, as long as bioware doesn't change the actual mechanics of the fights, only the gear stats, it shouldn't be nearly as bad as in WoW. as for the "you can change how YOU do things and simply not use something" it does work for solo play. it doesn't quite work as well for group play, becasue YOU can change what YOU do, but you cannot change what other people chose to do, so if everyone else just goes for groupfinder stuff - good luck finding people for your manual pug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 it is indeed a concern worth noting. that said, as long as bioware doesn't change the actual mechanics of the fights, only the gear stats, it shouldn't be nearly as bad as in WoW. as for the "you can change how YOU do things and simply not use something" it does work for solo play. it doesn't quite work as well for group play, becasue YOU can change what YOU do, but you cannot change what other people chose to do, so if everyone else just goes for groupfinder stuff - good luck finding people for your manual pug. Raid Finder didn't stop people from Pugging Raids.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Raid Finder didn't stop people from Pugging Raids.. no, because normal raids also dropped better gear... however. before raid finder I could easily find pugs on my server, both for regular stuff, as well as gold DKP runs. after raid finder - those are few and far inbetween (it was part of the reason I stopped trying to play, no matter how much I missed my characters). didn't happen nearly as often. after all.... why actualy make an effort for somewhat better gear, let alone pay gold for it, when you can just do nearly mindless groupfinder stuff? but like I said, as long as bioware keeps actual mechanics of the fights the same as what you get on manual zone in - shouldn't be so bad. Edited May 13, 2014 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrintoSFJ Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Maybe they can do it like this? :- http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=740652 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I wouldn't say its a non-issue, thats a bit too dismissive. The concerns are understandable from some, but again I think what benefits the game has to take precedence, even if it is difficult for a few folks to swallow. I'm not sure this: I can still foresee people running with Tython gear to avoid repairs and justify ninja-needs and this: Race to lvl 15, head to Kuat until lvl 55, and then right into SM ops. So from starter planet gear directly to 78s is how it will be now? or this: I think its obvious that with each TFP you run, your chances of seeing incredibly dumb group-behaviour increases (please see GF thread for examples). The TFPs, as intended, are role-neutral, which, consequently, means that a fair number of people aren't learning their roles. It goes without saying that someone is going to go from 15-54 KDY right into 50-55 bolstered ops. A healer who hasn't had to learn to cleanse. A DPS who hasn't learned to interupt. A tank who hasn't learned to manage and direct a fight. will actually benefit the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 no, because normal raids also dropped better gear... however. before raid finder I could easily find pugs on my server, both for regular stuff, as well as gold DKP runs. after raid finder - those are few and far inbetween (it was part of the reason I stopped trying to play, no matter how much I missed my characters). didn't happen nearly as often. after all.... why actualy make an effort for somewhat better gear, let alone pay gold for it, when you can just do nearly mindless groupfinder stuff? but like I said, as long as bioware keeps actual mechanics of the fights the same as what you get on manual zone in - shouldn't be so bad. Get a better WoW Server, Mal'Ganis was always popping with Pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I'm not sure this: and this: or this: will actually benefit the game. Doom and Gloom at it's finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Get a better WoW Server, Mal'Ganis was always popping with Pugs. ewww, pvp server. no thank you (not to mention character transfer fees, and no, I'm not rolling new characters, the reason I keep coming back every once i na while, is becasue I miss playing my existing characters, rerolling is just not the same, no matter how fast the leveling is) plus Tyralion used to be a damn good server, makes you wonder why the hell it virtually died the way it did. Edited May 13, 2014 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I'm not sure this ... [various quotes] ... will actually benefit the game. While I am pretty sure there will be many, many entries into the 'GF Thread' following bolstered SM ops on the live servers, if: 1) It is temporary, perhaps 'til the level cap rise; and 2) It manages to bring a few extra people into the ops-won't-bite-you camp; then I think, overall, it'll be OK. But if it is a permanent feature? Not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Doom and Gloom at it's finest. Have you actually got something to add? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) While I am pretty sure there will be many, many entries into the 'GF Thread' following bolstered SM ops on the live servers, if: 1) It is temporary, perhaps 'til the level cap rise; and 2) It manages to bring a few extra people into the ops-won't-bite-you camp; then I think, overall, it'll be OK. But if it is a permanent feature? Not so sure. Just last night I talked to someone from the ops-may-bite-me camp, and his reasons don't make it likely that this new addition will change his stance toward ops. He's afraid of grouping because he's afraid of getting yelled at for making mistakes. I don't see how a system that encourages people to go in unprepared will help. (Unless it's to make them feel better because others don't know better, either.) I'm phrasing my opinion carefully as opinion. *I* just don't *see* the benefits. We will see how it plays out and I'll be happy to have all concerns be proven wrong and unfounded. Edited May 13, 2014 by KyaniteD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Have you actually got something to add? Yes. But if you would like to know go back in the thread and look, I've already posted my opinion on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 And really, that's my worry too. But, hey, we'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 And really, that's my worry too. But, hey, we'll see what happens. To be more exact: my worry is that we will actually have a bigger skill divide between players. KDY is great for leveling fast but not so much for learning how to play as a team member. Going right from KDY to 16-man Ops may not exactly provide the incentive to playing better that some are hoping. But it might. It is, after all, just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Moving Group Finder to 16 man, which typically has a better chance of success and provides better comm rewards, providing yet another way for players to gear up / catch up late in the 2.X cycle, seems to be a good idea. It never made sense to me that Group Finder tried to create 8 man Ops groups for content which was typically more difficult on 8 man mode AND which dropped lessor amounts of comms than 16 man. Bolster however, seems to be a really dumb idea. I'd much prefer if they did what they did pre-2.0, and just give fresh 55s a bunch of Basic Comms so they can buy a starter gear set. Not to mention, bolster will probably end up borked such that players wearing optimized 55 gear won't have better stats than players wearing mid-level blues and empty slots while they will end up spending more on repair. Edited May 13, 2014 by DawnAskham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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