Mine detonations are a farce

[Armonddd]

Just gonna leave this here.

 

This is not the first time that's happened. I seem to be able to recreate the bug on demand.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Armonddd

[Zoom_VI]

That's an impressive blank page you got there

[Armonddd]

That's an impressive blank page you got there

 

goddammit puush

 

fix'd

[TrinityLyre]

Screenshots are a farce.

[Armonddd]

Screenshots are a farce.

 

Farces are a farce.

[Zoom_VI]

Personally I prefer it when I use retro thrusters to evade the mines, fire on the mines at the apex of retro when I'm >3km away from them, but still take damage from them despite having already destroyed them and being out of range to begin with.

[Armonddd]

Personally I prefer it when I use retro thrusters to evade the mines, fire on the mines at the apex of retro when I'm >3km away from them, but still take damage from them despite having already destroyed them and being out of range to begin with.

 

But you can barrel roll through a minefield with no problems.

[Zoom_VI]

But you can barrel roll through a minefield with no problems.

 

But then you have overshot the bomber

[TrinityLyre]

The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Seismic Mine.

[Verain]

Doesn't look like a bug. Looks like you damaged a mine while being in its explosion range?

[Armonddd]

Doesn't look like a bug. Looks like you damaged a mine while being in its explosion range?

 

In the last stream (that I know of), Chris explicitly confirmed that mines are not supposed to deal damage when destroyed. I believe he also made a forum post about it.

[Verain]

Pretty sure that was that they deal damage when the BOMBER is destroyed.

[Armonddd]

After doing some digging, it seems I was wrong about this being explicitly not intended. (Relevant parts of the stream: part one, part two.)

 

However, it seems that mines are not supposed to detonate when the bomber is killed. Therefore, I ask, why should mines detonate when destroyed? It doesn't seem in line with the design decision regarding death of the bomber. In either case, why am I punished for destroying my enemy?

Edited April 29, 2014 by Armonddd

[Verain]

The mines are intended to blow up when destroyed. This seems reasonable, but it's honestly not something I think is very good- I'd prefer if shooting a mine simply vaporized it.

 

 

The mines are not intended to blow up when the bomber is destroyed. I'm not aware if this has been fixed or not yet.

[Armonddd]

But why the discrepancy? Again, why are we being punished for doing our jobs right? It's supposed to be good strategy to clear a minefield off of a satellite, right? Tactical application of force and all that, and encourages people to not tunnel the bomber. If I'm going to blow up either way, why should I bother changing targets at all?

[Kalphitis]

I would be in favor of mines not doing damage when they're destroyed.

 

What is more BS though is when this happens with a Seeker Mine. There have been plenty of times where I've destroyed a seeker mine, and right afterwards it comes after me due to my proximity and explodes on me.

 

-Kalphitis has destroyed Douchebag's Seeker Mine

...few seconds later....

-Douchebag's Seeker Mine has destroyed Kalphitis

 

If you destroy a seeker mine, it should automatically be destroyed where it is at the time of being 'destroyed'.

 

What is currently happening: Due to lag, you were actually in proximity of the mine before you hit it. It then follows you for however long until hitting you, or you engine maneuver.

 

Most times, you can actually SEE this happening. You see the seeker mine being destroyed, then out of the explosion you see the same seeker mine streak out and begin to follow you.

[Armonddd]

The last time seekers were bugged to hit things when they shouldn't, they were patched. Hopefully they, and other mines, will have this issue patched as well.

 

If this is intended behavior... well, an ion railgun can easily detonate several mines on an allied player simultaneously, especially if the gunship isn't aware of those consequences... or even if he is. I'm not saying I've never seen larger griefing potential, but...

[Verain]

But why the discrepancy? Again, why are we being punished for doing our jobs right?

 

Presumably detonating mines point blank is not doing your job right.

 

That being said, I'd pretty fine with mines not doing that, because it sucks.

[Verain]

I'm not saying I've never seen larger griefing potential, but...

 

This is part of my reason for opposing mines exploding. I've killed friendlies this way and it makes me quite cross. They were dead anyway, flying into that minefield.

 

 

The rest of my reason is the same as yours mostly- mines are bad, should be rewarded for shooting them, not murderized.

[Altheran]

The mines are not intended to blow up when the bomber is destroyed. I'm not aware if this has been fixed or not yet.

 

Nope. I can tell for sure that destroying a Bomber can result in you being almost vaporized by that mine you carefully avoided its trigger range...

 

A.K.A "you win against my Bomber ? Nope. I am a Bomber therefore you can't win. You die with me"

[Urien]

Let's not forget their other farcical aspect: the ability for a bomber to essentially detonate its own mines with a remote trigger. When the Deployable Number cap for a type of mine is reached, but the bomber launches another of that mine type anyway, an existing deployed mine is automatically destroyed to "make room" for the newly-deployed mine. This act of destruction/deletion/despawning causes the mine to explode and deal AOE damage as normal.

 

Because the explosion radius of mines is larger than their detection radius, this means that even if somebody is being careful to stay away from the mine and avoid triggering it, they can still be hit with it if they stray into the much-larger damage-dealing radius. All the bomber has to do is wait for them to get close enough, then deploy another mine over the limit.

 

Mines aren't just Mines; they can act as Claymores, too, in the hands of a devious and situationally-aware pilot. I've killed many fighters who think they're astutely and carefully side-stepping my mines, only to find them exploding anyway and losing half their hull. The best times are when you wait for a whole swarm of fighters to get in range on a satellite in Dom and hit the remote trigger at just the right moment to catch them all in the AOE. Yet again, players who try to be clever and tactical to counter/neutralise Mines, who try to be aware of their Detection Radius and avoid it, are punished and killed anyway, rather than rewarded.

 

You can argue (probably successfully) about how "realistic" and how "right" it is from a technical point of view of whatnot. Hey, sure, mines probably ARE capable of being remote-detonated at specific moments like that. But from a game balance point of view? In terms of strengths and weaknesses and advantages and disadvantages and counters? It's totally FUBAR. I think we all know this, though; especially those of us who keep these ships in our hangars for a reason.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Urien

[Kalphitis]

Mines doing damage after you destroy them is lame....

 

Being able to destroy mines by laying new ones isn't lame at all though, and should stay that way. If you're a bomber that is there first, you should have an advantage over another bomber that shows up later.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Kalphitis

[KcirSirrah]

What is more BS though is when this happens with a Seeker Mine. There have been plenty of times where I've destroyed a seeker mine, and right afterwards it comes after me due to my proximity and explodes on me.

 

-Kalphitis has destroyed Douchebag's Seeker Mine

...few seconds later....

-Douchebag's Seeker Mine has destroyed Kalphitis

 

If you destroy a seeker mine, it should automatically be destroyed where it is at the time of being 'destroyed'.

 

In that situation it is possible you got hit by HIS SECOND seeker mine.

 

Now I see a lot of people saying how mines shouldn't damage them when they shoot the mine. In a way I agree with you. If you are outside of the damage radius and shoot a mine by all means take no damage as you shouldn't. However, if you shoot a mine WITHIN the damage radius you deserve any damage you take. I also see a lot of people saying the mine shouldn't blow up when you shoot it......um why not? When you shoot a mine something weird happens......IT BLOWS UP AND CAUSES DAMAGE.

 

What annoys me is when my mines go bye bye when I die. Just because I die does not mean my mines died. my bomber does not power the mines and therefore if I die my mines should still remain for their full time.

Edited April 29, 2014 by KcirSirrah
adding more

[Armonddd]

Let's not forget their other farcical aspect: the ability for a bomber to essentially detonate its own mines with a remote trigger.

 

I feel like this is mostly fine. It adds an element of skill (it's not always easy to blow up your mines at the right time, given the cooldown and the pressure to get your other mines out), and that's good. In essence it's a risk-reward thing: you're risking missing both the target near the old mines and the target you're about to deploy new mines on for the chance to hit a second target. That is, in and of itself, a good thing.

 

You could argue that mines do too much damage for this to be balanced -- and I might agree -- but you'd probably do better to make that argument in the thread we have going on that topic.

 

However, if you shoot a mine WITHIN the damage radius you deserve any damage you take. I also see a lot of people saying the mine shouldn't blow up when you shoot it......um why not? When you shoot a mine something weird happens......IT BLOWS UP AND CAUSES DAMAGE.

 

If mines did not explode when destroyed, it would give rise to a number of interesting tactics. As it is, if I'm following a bomber around a satellite and he rolls his face across the mine keys, I take damage no matter what. This is logic taking a step back in favor of balance.

 

What annoys me is when my mines go bye bye when I die. Just because I die does not mean my mines died. my bomber does not power the mines and therefore if I die my mines should still remain for their full time.

 

Again, logic taking a step back in favor of balance.

 

Are you also going to complain about the arbitrary maximum number of mines you can have active at any given time? Because, after all, they only have a maximum "fuse time", it shouldn't matter whether other mines exist or don't exist. After all, just look at the Hydian Way Blockade!

[Shoraan]

[...]

If you destroy a seeker mine, it should automatically be destroyed where it is at the time of being 'destroyed'.

 

What is currently happening: Due to lag, you were actually in proximity of the mine before you hit it. It then follows you for however long until hitting you, or you engine maneuver.

 

Most times, you can actually SEE this happening. You see the seeker mine being destroyed, then out of the explosion you see the same seeker mine streak out and begin to follow you.

 

Yes, I've witnessed that just yesterday. I shoot the mine, it explodes and I see it coming towards me after the explosion. That's just wrong. The difference between my weapon range and the explosion radius seems to be too small to compensate for lag. It feels like the following is happening:

1. I hit the mine at 5000 meters

2. The server registers the hit and destroyes the mine

3. The server calculates where I am, but due to lag I'm not at at 5000 meters but at 3000 meters

4. The server asumes I'm in range of the explosion range and hits me back

 

So, how should I clear the mine reliably? Reduce speed to zero? When I'm in range of turrets and whoever else is guarding the satelite that would be stupid. Hit the mine and do a sharp turn? Not very efficient.

 

Combine that with the fact that mines ignore shields it becomes really annoying. Unless I have a repair module on board or someone drops a repair probe in range I have no way of reliably clearing mines even with full shields. With a scout I'm usually toast with one mine, with a Strike the fourth mine will kill me no matter how much shield power I have.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Shoraan
typo