23/5 Operative Class Rep Questions

[Adovir]

why not give weakening blast a 100% proc to fatality? Get rid of the rng, procs from 10m, and the dps gain/loss is almost zero.it would be a dps increase because the players trying to maximize their dps in situations like progression raiding or in high level pvp will still be able to yo-yo back and forth to get the shiv proc and to get the ta because weakening blast has a cool down of 15 seconds and fatality has a 10 second icd so that means theres 5 seconds of time that shiv could proc it which would be beneficial to you because then you get your fatality earlier. Also would this mean that weakening blast still grant a tactical advantage or will it simply give you the proc because cull is unusable with our a ta so you would still need to keep going in back and forth to get your tactical advantage. Also i may be wrong i cant remember the actual time but tactical advantages last 15 seconds which is the cd on weakening blast so you would have to go through the self torture of changing your rotation to accommodate for this, its possible dont get me wrong but very painful.

 

about our questions: From a dps perspective, i think we are fine in pve, but i am not a progression raider.

 

In pvp, we should be slippery. But almost every other class has the same amount of escapes (rolls, leaps, forcespeed, cloaks/camouflages, hydr. Overrides) etc. While having more defensive cooldowns. I think this should be adressed.i think that the manipulation of stim boost in every tree or atleast in conc and lethality to be more of an effective cool down would be very nice. Conceptually it makes sense on both factions too because for the scoundrels its pugnacity which is a fighting will/instinct. Stims are used to heighten your reflexes and awareness and if you are pugnacious then you have essentially an adrenalin rush which heightens your combat skills and reflexes as well. Making talents that while stim boost and pugnacity are active our chance to dodge and or resist attacks could go up (talents could be something such as "pain inhibitors" or "shrug it off" while stim boost/pugnacity are active your dodge and resist chance are increased by X) or you could give straight damage reduct but that doesnt go with the "slippery" theme we apparently have.... Hmmm i think im going to make a post in the pvp forums asking this question to everyone

 

wildcard: I want my kd back!sentiment felt by all operatives and most people i know in my guild and most pvp guilds. I think its safe to say that everyone thought that this was a pretty useless change and very unfair to us because of the assassin change. Some players i know in pvp guilds that dont play operatives have said "if youre a good player fighting a bad, youll win every time. If youre a good player fighting a decent player you should come out on top a few more times than you will lose. If youre good/great fighting a competent player youre going to lose many more times than youll win and thats some serious bull **** right there because its not just one particular class thatll do that to you its the majority of classes versus you.

[snave]

Updated first post with questions. Yes I'm aware that the wildcard question reads like it's actually 10 questions.

[Adovir]

Updated first post with questions. Yes I'm aware that the wildcard question reads like it's actually 10 questions.

 

Gasp is the god damn snave going to attempt a cashology reborn and ask 20 questions and disguise them as 1!?!? 0.0'

[bobo_fett]

We felt this topics shows that Operative community is just as strong as ever , so we mentioned this topic on our on our Episode 33 of our podcast. Sorry snave I couldn't remember your name at the time of recording, somehow your name got left out of my show notes but we wanted to give a big thanks to you and the community for stepping up.

[Danylia]

Updated first post with questions. Yes I'm aware that the wildcard question reads like it's actually 10 questions.

I don't disagree with the questions, quite the reverse. That said ... they seem too broad and generic to me. Which may be good on one side, if they'll lead to comprehensive answers covering many points - but I'm afraid they will instead lead to equally broad and generic answers, way too much fluff and not enough meat.

 

I understand there is a lot of stuff in (desperate) need of discussion. However, I'd love to see the questions to be as much specific as possible - they are called top 3 questions after all - in hope to obtain a specific answers on at least some issues, instead of a "we'll see" reply on all of them.

[snave]

We felt this topics shows that Operative community is just as strong as ever , so we mentioned this topic on our on our Episode 33 of our podcast. Sorry snave I couldn't remember your name at the time of recording, somehow your name got left out of my show notes but we wanted to give a big thanks to you and the community for stepping up.

 

Couldn't remember my name?

 

For shame Sir, for shame.

[bobo_fett]

It will not happen again, I had Imperial Intelligence subliminally implant the name in to my head.

[cashogy_reborn]

Gasp is the gosh darn snave going to attempt a cashology reborn and ask 20 questions and disguise them as 1!?!? 0.0'

 

Oh hey there...............

 

Feel free to look at all the other class rep questions in the past. Plenty of them are quite lengthy and span multiple (but related topics) within the same quesiton.

 

QQmoar suckah

 

To the Op class rep: dont let people crying that they cant read the quesiton within their 5s attention span deter you from being thorough in conveying everything you need to get across to the devs.

Edited April 29, 2014 by cashogy_reborn

[Adovir]

Oh hey there...............

 

Feel free to look at all the other class rep questions in the past. Plenty of them are quite lengthy and span multiple (but related topics) within the same quesiton.

 

QQmoar suckah

 

To the Op class rep: dont let people crying that they cant read the quesiton within their 5s attention span deter you from being thorough in conveying everything you need to get across to the devs.

 

Lol I just referenced you bc I just remembered some one saying that on your class question post. But yeah ik you can throw a bunch of questions into one category if they're all related to one thing to try and fish some answers out of the devs. Also not q.qin . Also unfortunately snave isn't our rep, the primary and secondary for both factions are no longer active so he stepped up bc we kinda forced him to:rolleyes:

Edited April 29, 2014 by Adovir

[JaborAnDubhar]

First of all: My English is far from being perfect, and I don't want to risk to be misunderstood, so instead of posting walls of text, I'm giving you some "patch notes" of changes, together with a very short explanation. If you think, they are something that is good, feel free to convert them into real questions.

 

* Calculated Frenzy changes to:

 

Backstab and Hidden Strike have a (33/66/100%) chance to trigger Calaculated Frenzy, which increases ranged and tech critical chance by (2/4/6%) for 15 seconds; Calculated Frenzy allows you to activate your Backstab while face-to-face with your enemy target.

 

Thoughts: Increases quality of life, mostly in PvE.

 

* Jarring Strike changes to:

 

Hidden Strike has a (50/100%) chance to immobilize the target for 3 seconds and triggers Killers Instinct, granting immunity from knockdowns and physics for 3 seconds.

 

Thoughts: With the changes above, there is no need of the old face-to-face "Backstab". "Killers Instinct" explains itself (cut-down "Hydraulic Overrides"; a cutted down version of "Unstoppable" would be better, but possibly OP).

If the loss of a stun is the price for our class to be competitive, I will accept it; but above changes should solve a few problems of our current opener.

Edited April 29, 2014 by JaborAnDubhar

[Adovir]

First of all: My English is far from being perfect, and I don't want to risk to be misunderstood, so instead of posting walls of text, I'm giving you some "patch notes" of changes, together with a very short explanation. If you think, they are something that is good, feel free to convert them into real questions.

 

* Calculated Frenzy changes to:

 

Backstab and Hidden Strike have a (33/66/100%) chance to trigger Calaculated Frenzy, which increases ranged and tech critical chance by (2/4/6%) for 15 seconds; Calculated Frenzy allows you to activate your Backstab while face-to-face with your enemy target.

 

Thoughts: Increases quality of life, mostly in PvE.

 

* Jarring Strike changes to:

 

Hidden Strike has a (50/100%) chance to immobilize the target for 3 seconds and triggers Killers Instinct, granting immunity from knockdowns and physics for 3 seconds.

 

Thoughts: With the changes above, there is no need of the old face-to-face "Backstab". "Killers Instinct" explains itself (cut-down "Hydraulic Overrides"; a cutted down version of "Unstoppable" would be better, but possibly OP).

If the loss of a stun is the price for our class to be competitive, I will accept it; but above changes should solve a few problems of our current opener.

 

Overall it's ok my only worry might be that we get the knock back and physics immunity because I just see so many people calling for nerfs again. Maybe instead HS could give a global interrupt so that it puts all skills on the global cool down but doesn't stun the person. This way we can still get a "stun" with out the stun though that is probably op but just a thought. We could also change it so that jarring strikes gives a rebuff called "staggered" while it is in effect the staggered their force tech melee and ranged accuracy is reduced by 20% for 6 seconds. If you couple this with flash powder then that would make for a very good defensive combo.

[avinoamb]

see this EMP Discharge make it for concealment and the spec is perfect.

 

*EMP Discharge

Instant

Cooldown: 180s

Immediately finishes the cooldown on Shield Probe, Dodge, and Cloaking Screen. This ability does not respect the global cooldown.

 

 

in reg`s we are fine even more then fine a good concealment in a wz can make or break a game.

its in ranked we have a serious problem,the hard switches on us are so disabling its unplayable,i did some games on my concealment (playing medicine mostly) every switch on me i need to pop every cd in the first 10s and then remove myself from the fight for 5+sec and run/los to get healed up before i can jump back in,and its like that over and over again until you get caught with no cd`s in a cc and die.

this reset for key skills is to let us be in a groupfight for more then 15s before we need to run and hide

if concealment is less of a viable target with cd`s up a good team will need to force/w8 for your cd`s before they just zerg you off the map while you hopelessly pop everything just to keep up with the dmg.

and also one more hidden strike via cloaking screen=one more peeling tool that we can have and arguably need.

if you played games with this kinda of skill (hunter in wow for example) you know the best thing to do is to w8 for it to be used before you go for a kill so it provides a delay for the class before he becomes a viable target to switch on.

i know its not the best articulated explanation but anyone who played ranked as concealment know what i mean.

so the question is can we have this.

 

tho the best thing bw can do is to make concealment a strong team support to crate separation from deception sin`s

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7369562#post7369562

[Adovir]

see this EMP Discharge make it for concealment and the spec is perfect.

 

*EMP Discharge

Instant

Cooldown: 180s

Immediately finishes the cooldown on Shield Probe, Dodge, and Cloaking Screen. This ability does not respect the global cooldown.

 

IMHO I think that is just too powerful an offensive skill than a defensive one. Shield probe is still kinda meh getting 2 in a row would make it ok but that's bc you're putting 2 ****** shields ontop of one another. Evasion is a meh skill unless fighting a marauder jug or sniper. It would be nice bc you can get 2 purges in a min, and cloaking screen is a offensive escape. I say this bc when you combat stealth you can easily get away bc they can't target you so escape is easy. But it is offensive because it drops combat and allows you to be able to hidden strike. This means that say at the start of a RWZ you open up on them combat stealth reuse your opener and if they're still alive or if you target switch you can pop emp discharge to open up again. That's a total of 3 openers in something like 30 seconds. Even if you don't use the 3rd opener because you would like to save one to run away that means you can get 2 openers instead of 1 which adds to the killing power.

 

Tl;DrSo inshort we would get massive amounts of QQing bc we do too much damage PVE and PVP wise so we get smacked in the face with the nerf bat again for this cool down

[avinoamb]

Tl;DrSo inshort we would get massive amounts of QQing bc we do too much damage PVE and PVP wise so we get smacked in the face with the nerf bat again for this cool down

 

i know that in a first look having the potential of using 3 HS in 27s can be seen as a very strong borderline op thing to have,like i said my explanation wasn't very in depth i`ll try to be more clear why it isn`t as strong as it looks.

and i`ll try to make it with reference to deception, as much as its dumb to compare 2 class in our case we are competing on the same slot in a team so everything is looked form that pov.

lets start that the only possible use of the cd for HS that have any merit to it is to be used as an execute something we don`t have (if we did and you could chain it with hs it would be op). or for the cc for peeling (something we are lacking with no spamable slow,no knockbacks ect) this are 2 things sin`s have on a normal basis (execute skill and a under 30% max hp talent & more cc tools+taunts) and just for the record sin`s can pull off way more burst then 3 HS in under 27s (including our normal rotation).

having the 3 HS in 27s can be strong in a 1v1 but the universal say that the game isn't balanced on 1v1 still applies and you should be droping someone or dying in that time frame anyway so again it will be used as an execute nothing more if you pop the cd just for hs.

and as for pve its actually a really good qol thing to have for fights you cant sit on the npc back 24/7 for backstabs with the cd you can proc more jarring strike.

and as you said it isn`t a crazy enraged defense style over the top def cd also.

this kind of skill have a lot of play&counterplay to it and allow a lot versatility.

i think it can be a 5m cd not a 3m one just so it will see less use in wz.

now mind you knowing when and how to use it will be a trademark for skilled play.

and one last thing you dont balance a game based on the possibility of future qq,you balance it based on a pure "is it good or bad design" pov.

[eartharioch]

To be honest, I haven't played much lately because the 2.6 and 2.7 nerfs were just too depressing and really took a lot of fun out of the class. What I'd like to see addressed are the following:

 

1) I definitely would like the question about why we totally lost our knockdown but assassins were allowed to keep theirs for trash mobs in PVE, and got a stun as a replacement when we get a root. I don't think root + 10 sec of omnidirectional backstab is a good enough substitute.

 

2) I'd like a question about Orbital Strike -- to my knowledge, it was Snipers abusing it. I no longer use it at all because it just doesn't seem worth it -- I used to use it once every other combat during dailies. It can't even kill trash mobs now, so it's not worth standing still for three seconds to cast if I'm still going to have to fight every member of a mob anyway. I haven't seen much discussion, so I don't know what other people are experiencing (mainly, the Knockdown nerf was announced soon after 2.6, so that was the major topic I saw discussed).

 

3) I would like the question about cover to be asked, and I would like it to specifically address the disconnect between the current combat team (who said that cover was never intended to be useful to operatives) and the original lead designer who (just after launch, addressing the same issue) said it was 100% as designed.

 

I've had my op as my main since pre-launch. Basically, the last three patches (2.5, 2.6, 2.7) have each contained nerfs to [dps] operatives that have gutted what I considered to be "core" unique elements of the class, and based on this, and the devs statements contradicting the original lead designer, I seriously question whether or not the currents devs actually have a clue as to what the operative was supposed to be and what it was. The devs stated many times that the minor patches (2.x) should be small ones for balance tweaking and that major changes would be reserved for major patches/expansions. However, it seems to me that they are completely redesigning the AC in a piecemeal fashion instead of waiting for 3.0. If they would have just waited for 3.0 instead of [over-]buffing our melee attacks in 2.6, there wouldn't have been the need to immediately nerf knockdown in such a sloppy manner in 2.7.

[Adovir]

i know that in a first look having the potential of using 3 HS in 27s can be seen as a very strong borderline op thing to have,like i said my explanation wasn't very in depth i`ll try to be more clear why it isn`t as strong as it looks.

and i`ll try to make it with reference to deception, as much as its dumb to compare 2 class in our case we are competing on the same slot in a team so everything is looked form that pov.

lets start that the only possible use of the cd for HS that have any merit to it is to be used as an execute something we don`t have (if we did and you could chain it with hs it would be op). or for the cc for peeling (something we are lacking with no spamable slow,no knockbacks ect) this are 2 things sin`s have on a normal basis (execute skill and a under 30% max hp talent & more cc tools+taunts) and just for the record sin`s can pull off way more burst then 3 HS in under 27s (including our normal rotation).

having the 3 HS in 27s can be strong in a 1v1 but the universal say that the game isn't balanced on 1v1 still applies and you should be droping someone or dying in that time frame anyway so again it will be used as an execute nothing more if you pop the cd just for hs.

and as for pve its actually a really good qol thing to have for fights you cant sit on the npc back 24/7 for backstabs with the cd you can proc more jarring strike.

and as you said it isn`t a crazy enraged defense style over the top def cd also.

this kind of skill have a lot of play&counterplay to it and allow a lot versatility.

i think it can be a 5m cd not a 3m one just so it will see less use in wz.

now mind you knowing when and how to use it will be a trademark for skilled play.

and one last thing you dont balance a game based on the possibility of future qq,you balance it based on a pure "is it good or bad design" pov.

 

A LOT of personal opinion incoming

Sins don't have healing capabilities Ops do, albeit it's not very useful at times we do have it. We have decent slows compared to sins who only have force slow, we have sever tendon which is the same slow effect which we can also talent for a root in conc and we have the root on hs in conc. For leth we have an aoe slow on corrosive grenade which is one of the most spamable attacks in the game. Assassins have force slow for their slow and overload as their knock back which has its uses. Burst wise we have fairly the same burst it's just that theirs is more reliable and after that their sustained damage drops massively so they have to pick fights that they can do in ~15 seconds any more and they're cutting it close. Our burst is excellent as well if we crit on hs back stab on a laceration dot ticks, crits and X2 ticks and then after our initial burst of damage we have MUCH better sustained, we lack nothing In killing power what so ever. For PVE WE ARE FINE for damage I have never had any problems with getting behind a boss for back stabs and besides with this skill it would mean you would be able to get an extra face to face back stab every 3 minuets which isn't that big a QoL change bc if back stab has a 12 sec cd in 3 min you can get 15 back stabs in so that's 1/15 that you can do in that time.

 

Also qq is a pretty good way to figure out if its a good design or poor design and the way the qq is being done helps as well. Take for example the enraged defense change good idea but poor design. They made it too powerful and made it a h2f but making enraged defense a more universally useful skill is a good idea because bit PVE and PVP Benefit form this but it's too strong. This would give us more escape-ability while doing very little for surviveablty and give us more PVP burst and killing power which we don't need. Surviveablty Will keep you in the fight longer By use of a defensive move to reduce damage taken a skill which grants life back or a skill that increases evasion chance from all sources. Evasion is an ok skill but many classes have majority force and tech damage so it's worthless then. Shield probe even after its buff is still very weak and won't save you for more than 2 non crits. Lastly I've said it before I hate calling combat stealth a dcd for both sins and Ops because it can be used defensively as an escape or to get the advantage on another player so to give us a way to combat stealth doesn't help us stay alive longer but does increase our damage and by a fair amount too.

 

What we could use to help survivability are

A 30% aoe dmg reduct

A change to revitalizers to help the healing

Changes to ghost to increase defense chance by a fair amount for the duration

Changes to flash powder to effect F&T damage as well

Roots in lethality

Possible changes to stim boost to make it more defensive for both trees

Better set bonuses in general

Probably some more things but no one has said anything yet

[deanth]

see this EMP Discharge make it for concealment and the spec is perfect.

 

*EMP Discharge

Instant

Cooldown: 180s

Immediately finishes the cooldown on Shield Probe, Dodge, and Cloaking Screen. This ability does not respect the global cooldown.

 

I agree with your post that when ever we (scrapper/concealment) gets focused, our dps drops considerably, and along with our piss poor defensive cool down's, we drop really easily. That is also reflected in our play style and the design decision of the team, we aren't meant to rush and stay in a fight, we are supposed to be slippery. However, in arena's that makes us more of a liability.

 

I personally don't want the skill you mentioned, as we already have too many skills creating skill bloat. I don't believe what you suggested is overpowered, but if those attributes of the skills could be filtered into the skill trees through passive means, that may be better. I.e. getting hit would procure a chance of proc, lower cool down of certain abilities, etc...

 

What we could use to help survivability are

A 30% aoe dmg reduct

A change to revitalizers to help the healing

Changes to ghost to increase defense chance by a fair amount for the duration

Changes to flash powder to effect F&T damage as well

Roots in lethality

Possible changes to stim boost to make it more defensive for both trees

Better set bonuses in general

Probably some more things but no one has said anything yet

 

We definitely need a boost to our survivability, some of those are great ideas, however I disagree with, for example, the 30% aoe damage reduction, it doesn't fit into the design of our class. And I believe that the dev's did answer saying that we won't get that because it would make us too similar to other classes. In light of the recent nerfs to various abilities, e.g. removal of knockdown, being able to be leapt to when we are crouched, it already feels like our class is being homogenised.

[Adovir]

 

We definitely need a boost to our survivability, some of those are great ideas, however I disagree with, for example, the 30% aoe damage reduction, it doesn't fit into the design of our class. And I believe that the dev's did answer saying that we won't get that because it would make us too similar to other classes. In light of the recent nerfs to various abilities, e.g. removal of knockdown, being able to be leapt to when we are crouched, it already feels like our class is being homogenised.

 

The only reason why aoe reduct is there is mainly for raiding because it is massive pain on healers to have to constantly watch the life of some players and know that If there's a lapse in healing to them they might die because of aoe dmg that they can't avoid I defiantly see where you're coming from but I've been on both ends and it's not fun seeing my life get chunked while everyone else's isn't by that much or that they can pop a meaningful move to mini gate it

[snave]

There's a thread on the PTS forums asking for some help on increasing concealment survivability, you should go over there now and voice what ever ideas you have or we'll be sitting on the bench for another season of ranked and for operations.

 

Try not to ask for anything blatantly overpowered.

[Adovir]

There's a thread on the PTS forums asking for some help on increasing concealment survivability, you should go over there now and voice what ever ideas you have or we'll be sitting on the bench for another season of ranked and for operations.

 

Try not to ask for anything blatantly overpowered.

 

Good **** snave, thanks for posting this I probably wouldn't have realized for like a week that this was up

[TheJanitor]

There are a lot of ideas thrown around but I think everyone can agree on these three major issues

 

1.) Our defenses just straight suck. Scrapper or Dirty fighting, Are defenses are too weak and too little. It is nice that the devs are asking for suggestions on the pts forums, but they are only asking for mid tree, completely ignoring the right tree.

 

2.) Dirty fighting while it puts out really good numbers, takes way to long so set-up to do any damage. On top of the long ramp-up time, we also have this crazy hybrid range thing going on that doesn't really synergizes well. Dirty fighting works perfectly for gunslingers due to the range but it terrible for scoundrels due to us having to be within melee range to proc upper hand to using wounding shots. The entire spec imo needs to be reworked to flow better.

 

3.) Healing is just too easy. Ever since 2.0, healing has been on auto pilot. Here is a short table of how easy they made it from pre 2.0 to now

 

Pre 2.0

- Only slow release med-pack would proc upper-hand

- Actually had to make sure slow release med-pack was up on targets for chance to proc upper-hand

- Pugnacity had to always be up for max energy regain

- Emergency med-pack would refund upper-hand on targets below 30%

- Stealth did nothing

- You could not spam slow release med-pack it would cost 15 energy

 

Now

- All Hots have a chance to proc Upper

- Just can cast aoe heal for it to proc

- Pugnacity now grants upper-hand and we have extra passive energy regain

- Now it refunds upper-hand once every 10 secs. we just have another way to proc upper-hand (hurray!)

- coming out of stealth gives us grants two stacks of Upper-hand

- You can now spam slow release med-pack due to the huge cost reduction in energy (down to 9)

 

As you can see, healing is just far to easy and now its just far to easy to get upper-hand.

We have like 8/9 different ways to proc it now as compared to 4/5 pre 2.0.

Combine all this with upper-hand lasting 21 secs (was 15 back in the day, and way before that, 10)

 

 

I think everyone can agree that when ti comes to parsing and being left alone in a wz, we can do really awesome dps, so I dont think A question needs to be wasted on it being about dps, unless it about dirty fighting because that spec in generally needs to be reworked for pvp (for pve its fine)

 

I post some questions related to what I have said here, but I dont want to have this post running on forever and I dont have the time to write them up, so my next post will have some.

[Danylia]

There's a thread on the PTS forums asking for some help on increasing concealment survivability, you should go over there now and voice what ever ideas you have or we'll be sitting on the bench for another season of ranked and for operations.

 

Try not to ask for anything blatantly overpowered.

And since it concerns Concealment only, I'd like to appeal on my fellow Operatives (though I'm admittedly biased) to make at least one of the Class Rep questions focus purely on Lethality - my suggestions can be seen earlier in the thread. Thank you.

[snave]

And since it concerns Concealment only, I'd like to appeal on my fellow Operatives (though I'm admittedly biased) to make at least one of the Class Rep questions focus purely on Lethality - my suggestions can be seen earlier in the thread. Thank you.

 

Yip, I completely agree with this.

 

There's 3 weeks ish until they take the questions so I'd expect them to change in that time anyway. I'll be following and contributing to the PTS thread so any proposed changes in that will be reflected in the questions asked.

 

Don't want to jinx it but it looks like they're actually listening!

[Adovir]

And since it concerns Concealment only, I'd like to appeal on my fellow Operatives (though I'm admittedly biased) to make at least one of the Class Rep questions focus purely on Lethality - my suggestions can be seen earlier in the thread. Thank you.

 

I agree with this. I'd say ad roots in the spec and a change to flash powder to make it more powerful is say 30% acc debuf and I liked the idea of a high tree talent to make sever tendon generate a TA

[Chiltonium]

Survivability is the main problem in pvp, which is apparently getting buffed for ...concealment only.

 

The changed to probe and the 100% heal on lethality were a good step in the right direction, but without some flat damage reduction on a class with a setup as ridiculously long as lethality (corrosive grenade, dart, and weakening blast all do VERY little to NO initial damage) most lethality ops in an arena environment faceplant before they can use the first cull. They need to add something like darkswell, when exiting stealth for 8ish seconds you have a huge survival boost, something to set up those dots and not get murdered while doing so, all 3 abilities + the 1.5sec GD takes about 6 seconds to get off.

 

In PvE I actually find our survivability to be just fine with the new probe and free heal on roll, I roll a lot to catch up to mobs, to avoid aoes, etc and just throw up that heal on my way back to the mob.

 

That however does not make us a desired pick. We still bring absolutely nothing but damage that snipers or maras can do just as well, along with group wide utility spells. What bugs me is how long this is taking to implement, RIFT fixed this issue for all DPS classes within the first few months of their release, ToR has been out for years now. Givesops something that they can bring to the raid other than damage.

 

And how long are we going to have absolutely stupid talents like stealth detection and dodge increase. I feel like that was put in concealment as a joke and accidently went out like that.

 

Class rep, dont focus just on concealment like the devs are doing now please. Yes concealment needs some survival as well, but while concealment can come out of stealth swinging and hitting like a monster, lethality is not only squishy as well but has to pray to whatever gods they worship that no one notices them poisoning people for (in pvp) an eternity.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Chiltonium