Phyltr Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Ok, I get it, the SWG crowd launched a successful campaign for you to include some RP stuff that hardcore PVP and PVE players don't really care about (based on my own anecdotal experience) but you're going to make guild ships provide buffs? What?! You're forcing guilds who don't give two craps about this RP dreck to now buy guild ships or be at a constant disadvantage. That sucks. I'm trying write this calmly but I'm pretty pissed off after reading the producer letter. It's unconscionable that you take something that a lot of guilds wouldn't bother with and now shove it down our throats or we put ourselves at a constant disadvantage. Awesome. Why don't you just levy a tax and just take our credits? I apologize if the buffs mentioned aren't combat-based but if so I would suggest a different adjective other than "powerful". That word leads me to immediately think these are combat based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Ok, I get it, the SWG crowd launched a successful campaign for you to include some RP stuff that hardcore PVP and PVE players don't really care about (based on my own anecdotal experience) but you're going to make guild ships provide buffs? What?! You're forcing guilds who don't give two craps about this RP dreck to now buy guild ships or be at a constant disadvantage. That sucks. I'm trying write this calmly but I'm pretty pissed off after reading the producer letter. It's unconscionable that you take something that a lot of guilds wouldn't bother with and now shove it down our throats or we put ourselves at a constant disadvantage. Awesome. Why don't you just levy a tax and just take our credits? I apologize if the buffs mentioned aren't combat-based but if so I would suggest a different adjective other than "powerful". That word leads me to immediately think these are combat based. To be fair if they don't add things that are a credit drain on players' bank accounts, inflation will go through the roof. And for credit drains to be effective, they need to be things that people will willingly spend millions on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyltr Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 To be fair if they don't add things that are a credit drain on players' bank accounts, inflation will go through the roof. And for credit drains to be effective, they need to be things that people will willingly spend millions on. This isn't a credit drain, it's pay-to-win (with credits). Or maybe more appropriately, refuse-guild-ships-and-lose, since if they are combat-based you are gimped by not buying into this guild ship nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) I must have missed a post. Source about guild ship specifics? Nevermind. Found it: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=737151 (for anyone else) As far as the buffs, I took it to mean that the buffs would be only for the guild conquest function, but I could be wrong. I agree that this shouldn't buff other pve/pvp activities. Although, buffs during leveling would be fine with me, so maybe any buffs could just get deactivated in Ops and warzones? Edited April 23, 2014 by GatorAndy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 If you are encouraging more on planet PVP, then buffs from Ships are indeed going to be a 'pay to play' sort of feature. I'm neutral on it at present though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatRacer Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) This isn't a credit drain, it's pay-to-win (with credits). Or maybe more appropriately, refuse-guild-ships-and-lose, since if they are combat-based you are gimped by not buying into this guild ship nonsense. I disagree with this line of thought. When people say something is "pay-to-win", they usually mean having to pay real life cash to the company for some kind of advantage. However, as long as the option for the advantage is buyable through in-game credits, then I see it as no different than being able to buy a 34 Barrel/Hilt or stims to have a combat advantage. Edited April 24, 2014 by HeatRacer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyltr Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 I disagree with this line of thought. When people say something is "pay-to-win", they usually mean having to pay real life cash to the company for some kind of advantage. However, as long as the option for the advantage is buyable through in-game credits, then I see it as no different than being able to buy a 34 Barrel/Hilt or stims to have a combat advantage. You're right, calling it pay-to-win is somewhat hyperbolic, I'll own up to that. However you are wrong, it is not like being able to buy a 34 barrel/hilt because you can go do ops and acquire that item. The ONLY way you can get the guild ship and its buff is to buy it (with in-game credits). You can craft stims, you can't craft a guild ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 You're right, calling it pay-to-win is somewhat hyperbolic, I'll own up to that. However you are wrong, it is not like being able to buy a 34 barrel/hilt because you can go do ops and acquire that item. The ONLY way you can get the guild ship and its buff is to buy it (with in-game credits). You can craft stims, you can't craft a guild ship. how about we actually wait until they release what the actual "buffs" are and see if they are ERMEGRD OP!! P2W!!!!!1111one You might just slightly be over reacting to a marketing term until more information is released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korithras Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 You're right, calling it pay-to-win is somewhat hyperbolic, I'll own up to that. However you are wrong, it is not like being able to buy a 34 barrel/hilt because you can go do ops and acquire that item. The ONLY way you can get the guild ship and its buff is to buy it (with in-game credits). You can craft stims, you can't craft a guild ship. Technically though, everything including your 34 barrels/hilts, stims, etc. all cost money. Whether you craft it yourself or pay somebody to craft it for you, you're spending money to get all these things in game that you need. I think you just need to calm down a bit lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 A good buff to have is double outcome of all gathering, in the field and via crew missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misako_Oono Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 A good buff to have is double outcome of all gathering, in the field and via crew missions. That is something I would love to have. Oh! Or increase chance of a critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I can get behind the buffs having no affect in PvP. But for PvE I don't understand it. I know plenty of hardcore pvpers and pveers who are very excited about this (pretty much my entire guild). So if the buffs help with PvE (but not required) I don't see how it would hurt anyone. Depending on how the rewards are gained as long as a couple people in the guild want to do it then everyone will benefit. As far as people who are not in a guild I have to question their purpose of playing an MMO to begin with is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 You're right, calling it pay-to-win is somewhat hyperbolic, I'll own up to that. However you are wrong, it is not like being able to buy a 34 barrel/hilt because you can go do ops and acquire that item. The ONLY way you can get the guild ship and its buff is to buy it (with in-game credits). You can craft stims, you can't craft a guild ship. wouldn't it be a tad more appropriate to complain about these buffs once we have more information on what they will actually do? I mean, for all we know it could be anywhere from an actual buff to a player, to a bolster for guild conquests so all player levels can participate, or a non stat buff that applies to stuff like companion affection or something, we just do not know yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyltr Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 wouldn't it be a tad more appropriate to complain about these buffs once we have more information on what they will actually do? I mean, for all we know it could be anywhere from an actual buff to a player, to a bolster for guild conquests so all player levels can participate, or a non stat buff that applies to stuff like companion affection or something, we just do not know yet Which is why I put this at the bottom of my original post: "I apologize if the buffs mentioned aren't combat-based but if so I would suggest a different adjective other than "powerful". That word leads me to immediately think these are combat based." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korithras Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 To be fair it sounds like the guild ship buffs will only effect whichever planet the ship happens to be in orbit of. And really the only point at which it'll become an issue is abuse in pvp. So really we don't need to fret over this too much, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Thorne Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 So all extra stuff and buffs *have* to cater *only* to hardcore PVP and PVE players? Nice thought that; no elitism or selfishness there. Considering all the cool gear, mounts, titles, etc. that are available only to those who focus on PVP/PVE, I'm a little surprised at the high pitch of the whine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I doubt the guildship buffs will affect PvP, maybe it will an XP buff, a buff that increases gathering or crafting or such things, maybe a buff that increases the chances for better and rare loot, maybe a buff that incearses your movement speed while mounted, or a buff that reduces the cost for taxis or lowers the cooldown on quick travel. There are so many ways to have buffs that do not affect PvP at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragaunus Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) Don't worry folks. If you look at the OP's post history, he's always blasting guild ships on every sub-post he can find. He even jumped the gun constantly stating that "The Developers will never institute them! They said so so stop talking about!" Just because they said no, people have the right to still advocate for what they believe in just like any issue in today's society. And, to his surprise, the Developer's saw the feedback and changed their mind. Funny nothing can ever change his eh? Furthermore, literally 98% of the time has only negative feedback on any topic he either posts or replies to. Such posts usually end up being like this; rude with 'big words' he looks up to to appear 'articulate' with a thesaurus in hand followed by trolling said posts until the the opposition gets sick of replying, allowing him to literally get 'the last word' in by a 'war of attrition.' There's another MMO where building up a guild 'star base' offers you in-game benefits but does cost a lot of time, high-end content effort, and in-game currency. With greater effort and hard work comes greater rewards, whether they be in the form of increasing a character's effectiveness in some way or acquiring unique 'cosmetic' content. This is the model of nearly every MMO out there, designed to provide incentive for players to play more and in turn pay more to enjoy the product in the long run. I don't see this way of thinking every changing in MMO development unless they somehow get funded 100% by the blasting of in-game product adverting, which I don't think ANYONE would want. SWTOR currently offers in-game benefits that take work to achieve already, such as doing Operations to get better gear which in tern makes you more powerful and effective in combat situations. While different compared to the loot rewards of progressive raiding, yes, the concept is very much the same; you want something to make you stronger in-game, you have to work for it. As for the OP's other point, I get it; he finds the aesthetic value of Guild Ships not worth the time and effort as it caters to a certain player base (size unknown). What he fails to say is that this particular niche of players have constructively utilized the forums to voice their excitement and belief that this feature would improve their gaming experience frequently and in a constructive manner. And as a way to reward other members of the gaming community, the Developers even catered to the 'I don't need an RP social spot' by making Guild Ships beneficial by providing buffs and other stat based benefits. You may hate having to go to a Guild Ship and never stay in it, but you can still work for one and enjoy it's rewards that serve your specific needs. Edited April 26, 2014 by Dragaunus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I am fine with Buffs to PvE... I don't see it as a disadvantage to any player. But if it is Guild Ship based, it should only be active when X guild member players are on the team (Ops/FP), or soloing. Its description read that it has to do with the planet the ship is orbiting, so I don't think it is a guild wide buff. So I read this as guild ship over Oricon, get buffs running oricon dailies, or Ops. I do agree that the buffs should not apply to PvP. Ever. Some one mentioned another MMO's "star base", I do not... for the love of all things holy... want to see that model repeated here. I left that MMO because of the grind that ensued over that, and if you didn't grind you WERE at a disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragaunus Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 I am fine with Buffs to PvE... I don't see it as a disadvantage to any player. But if it is Guild Ship based, it should only be active when X guild member players are on the team (Ops/FP), or soloing. Its description read that it has to do with the planet the ship is orbiting, so I don't think it is a guild wide buff. So I read this as guild ship over Oricon, get buffs running oricon dailies, or Ops. I do agree that the buffs should not apply to PvP. Ever. I completely agree. Some one mentioned another MMO's "star base", I do not... for the love of all things holy... want to see that model repeated here. I left that MMO because of the grind that ensued over that, and if you didn't grind you WERE at a disadvantage. While I used 'star bases' as an example, I agree as well that the grind for their features in that before mentioned MMO were too excessive. It'll be our duty as players on this forum to voice our opinion should the benefits of the Guild Ship Feature be far too high a grind of any sort of resource (time, effort, credits, resources) and make our voice heard should that become the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) Ok, I get it, the SWG crowd launched a successful campaign for you to include some RP stuff that hardcore PVP and PVE players don't really care about (based on my own anecdotal experience) but you're going to make guild ships provide buffs? What?! You're forcing guilds who don't give two craps about this RP dreck to now buy guild ships or be at a constant disadvantage. That sucks. I'm trying write this calmly but I'm pretty pissed off after reading the producer letter. It's unconscionable that you take something that a lot of guilds wouldn't bother with and now shove it down our throats or we put ourselves at a constant disadvantage. Awesome. Why don't you just levy a tax and just take our credits? I apologize if the buffs mentioned aren't combat-based but if so I would suggest a different adjective other than "powerful". That word leads me to immediately think these are combat based. I wouldn't make blanket statements about PvPers and PvErs. You have no details provided yet, so we have no idea how the buffs work or will be implemented. If they are ground side WPvP related than I'm a little undecided on that. Until we know for certain, it's difficult to formulate arguments for or against. Personally I'm curious to see how it all works, it could be great! So far I'm liking what info we were provided, but will wait for details before making a decision. Edited April 26, 2014 by LanceCorporalDan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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