Command is Sage on steroids :( (mostly pvp perspective)

[AlrikFassbauer]

Sage>mando, but I'd rather have instant casts than interrupt immunity, considering you can't stop an instant cast with cc.

 

That's why there are so much more Sages on the Leaderboards than Mandos of any kind ?

[Retrochillee]

most of the time in ranked arenas (where it matters) mando are a better choice for damage and heals. it's all about burst and defensive cd potency.

 

mandos can do 2 instant grav rounds, instant demo, instant high impact, then buffed full auto, then the instant high impact... after that they can pop reactive shield for interupt immunity and spam more grav rounds.

 

tele sages can so easily be lock up. everytime i've tried to use mental alacrity against a compentant pvp'er they just stun me, then knockback/throw after that. most of the duraction of that buff is spent kiting or wasting gcd's on bubble and that self heal.

 

i know damn well sages can just sit there and wtfpwn noobs, but my beef is what happens when we're up against talented/geared pvp'ers who really know what they're doin.

 

sages don't have instant 11k heatseekers... nuf said. i can't count how many tims i'd try to cast turbulance just to have the target LOS, get cleansed, i get interupted/knocked back, or they already die.

[JediMasterSLC]

You guys are aware that Gunnery/Arsenal can now spec into actual interrupt immunity, right?

 

Haha I forgot. That makes Zoom even more wrong.

 

That's why there are so much more Sages on the Leaderboards than Mandos of any kind ?

 

..........I literally said, sage>mando, what do you want from me.

Edited April 21, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[JediMasterSLC]

most of the time in ranked arenas (where it matters) mando are a better choice for damage and heals. it's all about burst and defensive cd potency.

 

mandos can do 2 instant grav rounds, instant demo, instant high impact, then buffed full auto, then the instant high impact... after that they can pop reactive shield for interupt immunity and spam more grav rounds.

 

tele sages can so easily be lock up. everytime i've tried to use mental alacrity against a compentant pvp'er they just stun me, then knockback/throw after that. most of the duraction of that buff is spent kiting or wasting gcd's on bubble and that self heal.

 

i know damn well sages can just sit there and wtfpwn noobs, but my beef is what happens when we're up against talented/geared pvp'ers who really know what they're doin.

 

sages don't have instant 11k heatseekers... nuf said. i can't count how many tims i'd try to cast turbulance just to have the target LOS, get cleansed, i get interupted/knocked back, or they already die.

 

Not only is that not the correct rotation, you also seem to be combining specs in thinking that full auto resets HIB CD (that's in assault, not gunnery). You're forgetting that sages have bubble that mezzes people, barrier and its new effect, better energy management, overall better off heals, instant free self heal, etc. Ask any experienced PvPer: sage is stronger.

[AdrianDmitruk]

You forgot the bullet point about how sages get baseline interrupt immunity every 45 seconds while DPS commandoes have no interrupt protection at all.

 

Every 2 minutes, not every 45 seconds.

 

You also forgot the point about how commandoes can only kite once every 90 seconds, while sages can do it constantly.

 

While simultaneously fulfilling their role? (be it damage or heals) Only since 2.7.

 

Before 2.7 it was easy to permaroot us unless we were healers (but healers are so reliant on cast/channels, and continue to be so, that we can't do our job while kiting)

 

You also forgot to mention how reactive shield is a 2 minute cooldown.

 

Yes, one minute shorter than ours, but doesn't hinder your role

 

You also forgot to mention how sages have a marginally overpowered hybrid while commandoes have never even had a hybrid.

 

We have to hybrid because there's so much useless filler in the top third of our skill trees, tell Bioware to fix our full trees pl0x. 2.7 added more skill taxes in the bottom tiers by moving fadeout/egress down to tier 2. Balance/madness literally can't afford to pay both this skill tax and the force management skill taxes that have been in our middle tree since launch.

 

You also forgot to mention how the sage gets a baseline ranged snare and talentable roots and snares in other trees while commando only gets one melee root in only one tree.

 

Yeah the baseline snare is so awesome, let me know when it locks out pulls/leaps. (WTB electronet lol) Its cooldown is 12s, but its duration is only 6s; leaps are 15 with ways to reduce/reset them. We can't reduce the cd on our slow.

 

It must be alternated or combined with either 30 point middle tree root or 36 point right tree root to give us a chance to counter leap spam. Healers are ****ed as they can't talent root.

 

You also forgot how sages get a baseline instant self-heal that costs nothing and is off GCD...

 

It's on GCD

 

your post is hereby fixed

 

also, as an aside, I'd gladly add 10 seconds to cooldown of Force Wave if it could get same airtime and radial as Concussion Charge

[Kerensk]

Hold the line > force speed

Force speed is so much better with its short cool down and high speed. FS + med pack + instant self heal + bubble isn't Heal to Full, but it's close enough to be a massive PITA.

Reactive shield > bubble

Bubble stuns nearby melee classes, vital for ranged classes.

Concussion charge > force wave

Specced Commando knockback is godlike, definitely advantage to the commando.

Demo round > turbulence

Turbulence can get a second hit. Demo round's instant is nice but it's really not that powerful and the cool down is 10 GCDs.

Heavy armor > light armor

If you've played a Commando you know that the heavy armor is paper thin. If devs said there is a bug and commando armor has been reacting like light armor all along I wouldn't be surprised at all.

[JediMasterSLC]

Turbulence can get a second hit. Demo round's instant is nice but it's really not that powerful and the cool down is 10 GCDs.

 

And it's autocrit...

[smellmop]

surprised no one mentioning the electronet

 

beast ability for arenas....not so much for regs with the long cool down but still dat net

[Retrochillee]

And it's autocrit...

 

It's not auto crit. you have to cast dot first.

AND THEN::

dot gets cleansed while casting the long cast turbulance..

during that long cast the dot ends a split second b4 cast finishes..

oh and don't forget about all the interupts, stuns, LOS, and knockbacks..

also, skills can absorb, reflect, or dodge it. (shadows, guardians, operative rolls, commando spec attack absorb)

 

if you can successfully get turbulence to crit in ranked arena, CONGRATS! GO PLAY THE LOTTERY! ;D

Edited April 22, 2014 by Retrochillee

[JediMasterSLC]

It's not auto crit. you have to cast dot first.

AND THEN::

dot gets cleansed while casting the long cast turbulance..

during that long cast the dot ends a split second b4 cast finishes..

oh and don't forget about all the interupts, stuns, LOS, and knockbacks..

also, skills can absorb, reflect, or dodge it. (shadows, guardians, operative rolls, commando spec attack absorb)

 

if you can successfully get turbulence to crit in ranked arena, CONGRATS! GO PLAY THE LOTTERY! ;D

 

It's not gonna cleansed often, and if it does, just reapply dot. Congrats you just traded 1 GCD for 1 GCD.

 

If dot is about to end, reapply it....

 

Positioning man, positioning.

 

Those all work on demo round too....

 

Look at the ranked teams man. Look at the streams. They're running sages, not mandos.

[Uber_the_Goober]

obvious mandos are underpowered troll is obvious

 

Obviously.

[blackryptonite]

i would love to see you healing to full with a commando without using ammo regen skill. please try to heal your self 3 times in a row and then you realise that your ammo management is really bad if you compare it to sorcs. like after 3 casting heals during the combat you wont be able to dps because of low ammo. with recklessness a sorc can heal up to 27k with 2 casts. ( assassin set bonus) cast big heal(9-10k) -- insta self heal(7-8k)--- cast big heal(9-10k). ofc there is a small chance that you wont crit even with reck. but it doenst happen all the time.

another thing while youre trying to cast gravround or whatever a madness sorc can kite the sheet out of you. i dont think commandos are better than sorcs or sorcs are better than them. its up to the situation but imo i prefer sorc over a commando maybe its just because i know sorcs better than a mando but i still on my mando so that i can learn the class better

[MusicRider]

I am not sure I understand the point of this conversation, both are good in the right hands and both have their pros and cons. For example barrier is good for survivability and net is good cause it is a near death sentence, so both are great for arenas. I don't think one class is better over the other...

[Gyronamics]

I am not sure I understand the point of this conversation, both are good in the right hands and both have their pros and cons. For example barrier is good for survivability and net is good cause it is a near death sentence, so both are great for arenas. I don't think one class is better over the other...

 

And yet teams who do arenas overwhelmingly do think there is a preferable class between the two.

 

I'm inclined to agree that the toolkit and skill cap for sages is considerably more and that shows in focused competitive play.