Evolixe Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Evo, I think what you're saying won't make us go anywhere. You're saying that you can ninja cap from an Operative as a Shadow, because attack has the advantage... That may be true, but that's not even related to point you tried to make originally : Operatives being worse than Shadows at node guarding. If the cap is decided by what you said, being on offense, lure a break... Then being a Shadow or Operative, whether you're on attack or defense do not matter. The defender could be an Assassin instead of an Operative that the issue would be the same, since nothing is based on him being specifically an Operative. Actually, it does. Because shroud and phase walk allow you to evade that secondary cc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Lol funny you mention that. Given the fact that in hypergates, ranked games were never played out in the middle but at the pylons. Gotta try a bit harder. Wonderful, I hide better in civil war and nova anyway since it takes longer to cap. I was just making it easier for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Wonderful, I hide better in civil war and nova anyway since it takes longer to cap. I was just making it easier for you. Doesn't change a thing. I'll cap it from right under your nose either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Doesn't change a thing. I'll cap it from right under your nose either way. No you won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 No you won't. This is an endless discussion. But I have more experience than you do. Good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 This is an endless discussion. But I have more experience than you do. Good day. Yes you do, I respect the way you play and admit you are better than me. But that doesn't mean you can easily find me and sap cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IInox Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I lure your break. And i leave. A minute later i come back, low slash lift you. What are you going to do? Exactly. Nothing. I agree but about assassins vs ops I still have some doubts on lower stealth lvl, i see ops just at 1/2m **** and is difficult to avoid their sap. (this , without blackout) evo, can you explain here better what u said on video? it would be easier for me to understand. and another question, which way do you prefer while node guarding? PW on potion to have a backup or PW into node so you can walk around it? and when you are try to ninja alone what do you prefer? try to take down guard node quickly or try to sap and cap? maybe this depends by which class is defending.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I agree but about assassins vs ops I still have some doubts on lower stealth lvl, i see ops just at 1/2m **** and is difficult to avoid their sap. (this , without blackout) evo, can you explain here better what u said on video? it would be easier for me to understand. and another question, which way do you prefer while node guarding? PW on potion to have a backup or PW into node so you can walk around it? and when you are try to ninja alone what do you prefer? try to take down guard node quickly or try to sap and cap? maybe this depends by which class is defending.. Always attempt a ninja first. Since ninjacapping takes considerably less time than trying to kill the defender. Even if that is more effective. When I'm defending, I tend to keep my PW near the node and stand far out myself. This creates a much larger search area and that buys you time. As of the stealthwalk.. I'm not sure what else to say, just walk in big circles. Give the least amount of chance to show your back and you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IInox Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) Always attempt a ninja first. Since ninjacapping takes considerably less time than trying to kill the defender. Even if that is more effective. When I'm defending, I tend to keep my PW near the node and stand far out myself. This creates a much larger search area and that buys you time. As of the stealthwalk.. I'm not sure what else to say, just walk in big circles. Give the least amount of chance to show your back and you'll be fine. ok how i thought..on hypergate if I'm slacking I stay above a pylone on the tallest spot (not the small pylon, the large one, you can climb it until a 2/3° spot) about arenas, PW is used mostly as DCD/avoid a sure death and allow you to rec up? other ways don't come in my mind atm.. edit: ah yes if the aren has a bridge i put PW up to it if someone push me down Edited April 22, 2014 by IInox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moombahcore Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Nerf sins. Much strong. More buffs for sniper doe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted April 26, 2014 Author Share Posted April 26, 2014 Nerf sins. Much strong. More buffs for sniper doe. Seems legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Nerf sins. Much strong. More buffs for sniper doe. We'll be nerfed in 2.8 and snipers will probably get another buff. All will be right in the world then ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrus Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) So I played group ranked on my Sin for about 4 1/2 hours tonight. Full Deception, trying out Xinika and Evo's recommendation of adding some crit, going from 18.5% to 23.77% (I still have 2 Conqueror armorings and 2 Overkill augs). Saw a DPS increase of anywhere from 110 to 180 DPS, every single round. So...thanks. Considerably better in arenas. I think its a toss-up or slightly worse than 0 crit in regs based on my results there, and probably worse for 1v1s as well, but for group arenas -much improved. Which brings me to something else. Phase walk is effing useless in group ranked. You get maybe one shot at using it against a good team (assuming it doesn't wear off before you need to use it) unless you want to stealth out and watch the rest of your team die while you reapply it. Starting to wonder why it has a 2 minute shelf life at all, instead of being permanent unless you manually cancel or use it. How Xinika Helped Me Win A 3v4 Yolo Queue: A Love Story Edited April 27, 2014 by Aetrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmerry Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Which brings me to something else. Phase walk is effing useless in group ranked. You get maybe one shot at using it against a good team (assuming it doesn't wear off before you need to use it) unless you want to stealth out and watch the rest of your team die while you reapply it. Starting to wonder why it has a 2 minute shelf life at all, instead of being permanent unless you manually cancel or use it. Its not though... so you are getting trained while your tank/healer are cc'd.. you phase walk and you dont die.. it saved me more than once in season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrus Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Its not though... so you are getting trained while your tank/healer are cc'd.. you phase walk and you dont die.. it saved me more than once in season 1 Here's the setting: I'm up against Arsenal/Carnage on Tat. I drop a phase walk down at the beginning of the match. We fight, they make a really good switch. I don't know about my healer and tank but their tank is CCing me while I'm being Gore-Ravaged and the Merc is freecasting on me as well. I should've Broke+Shroud+Overload and I'm inexperienced on my Sin in group ranked so that is my bad. Instead I tried to phase walk out, only to realize after a confused moment that it had expired about 10 seconds before their switch. One GCD later, I'm dead, we proceed to drop the round. Now, props to them. Great switches with full burst up, good CC, and I made a bit of a mistake by being greedy and trying to save my breaker. That being said, that switch could've come 3 minutes into the arena, or 4:30 into the arena, etc. Unless you wanna blow your stealth out and watch your team get sodomized 3v4 while you set it up again, I really don't understand its point in arenas. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSylar Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) We may get a Maul proc (which is RNG) and hit for a hefty number - perhaps 7k or even 10k but our sustainability is horrendous. (Actually we have one of the worst sustainability in game) So if you time us out, our damage isn't very scary - just spiky. Not to mention, it's heavily dependent on Force Cloak / Recklessness - so if the Assassin uses his or her cloak offensively and their burst fails, well - let's just say we won't be in the merriest of situations. So would the simpliest solution to fixing deception be to reduce the recklessness window? It wouldn't add any burst, just make it more often. A pvper can chime in here, because I don't pvp, but I'm of the belief that encounters/skirmishes last a much shorter period of time, so knocking 30 secs (or less just made this up) off the CD, wouldn't effected pvp that much Edited April 27, 2014 by DarthSylar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanameSora Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 So would the simpliest solution to fixing deception be to reduce the recklessness window? It wouldn't add any burst, just make it more often. A pvper can chime in here, because I don't pvp, but I'm of the belief that encounters/skirmishes last a much shorter period of time, so knocking 30 secs (or less just made this up) off the CD, wouldn't effected pvp that much That would directly affect burst, though, even by your own statement. By allowing us to use recklessness/force potency more often, you would allow us to burst more often. Therefore, increasing our total burst. This would be especially true if they left the -30s from the CD when exiting combat. It could allow for us to have charges up all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelanis Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 That would directly affect burst, though, even by your own statement. By allowing us to use recklessness/force potency more often, you would allow us to burst more often. Therefore, increasing our total burst. This would be especially true if they left the -30s from the CD when exiting combat. It could allow for us to have charges up all the time. It's -60 seconds on the talent. Even without the PVP set bonus, you'd be able to Recklessness, use all the stacks, stealth out, and Recklessness again immediately for huge burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSylar Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) It's -60 seconds on the talent. Even without the PVP set bonus, you'd be able to Recklessness, use all the stacks, stealth out, and Recklessness again immediately for huge burst. yea, as I said, I don't pvp, and forgot that a recklessness cd reduction is part of the set bonus. It's been said before, and not liked by some, but imo, the best way to add sustained damage is to make Low Slash viable in PVE. Lower Low Slash's cost to 25, make it proc Induction, and add it to Torment. This way, Low Slash can be used without it being a dps loss, when you factor in the subsequent damage from Maul. The effect on PvP will be very little, since the cooldown is 15 secs. Either that or drop the damage to be equal to saber strike (make it add Induction) and drop the force cost to 0. Both will add more Mauls do our rotation, which should raise sustain damage. Edited April 28, 2014 by DarthSylar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) So would the simpliest solution to fixing deception be to reduce the recklessness window? It wouldn't add any burst, just make it more often. A pvper can chime in here, because I don't pvp, but I'm of the belief that encounters/skirmishes last a much shorter period of time, so knocking 30 secs (or less just made this up) off the CD, wouldn't effected pvp that much Just fix the proc rates, or add crit passive +, or improve force management. I see all these changes for Deception being tossed to and fro. The spec that needs help and desperate help is Madness. Which brings me to something else. Phase walk is effing useless in group ranked. You get maybe one shot at using it against a good team (assuming it doesn't wear off before you need to use it) unless you want to stealth Useless? Wouldn't go that far. Bad? Indeed. Can save you sometimes but it's such a pain in terms of QoL - cast time for example, like really? A cast time on a melee ability? Edited April 28, 2014 by Xinika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrus Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Useless? Wouldn't go that far. Bad? Indeed. Can save you sometimes but it's such a pain in terms of QoL - cast time for example, like really? A cast time on a melee ability? Yep. I saw the discussion going on in the Assassin Questions thread after posting that. Your instant-cast Phase Walk suggestion works, too. I have no idea why there is a cast time on it, since it does...nothing on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSylar Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Just fix the proc rates, or add crit passive +, or improve force management. I see all these changes for Deception being tossed to and fro. The spec that needs help and desperate help is Madness. By far, my favorite solution would be adding passive crit. I just don't see Bioware doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 By far, my favorite solution would be adding passive crit. I just don't see Bioware doing that. Passive crit would just create more RNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Here's the setting: I'm up against Arsenal/Carnage on Tat. I drop a phase walk down at the beginning of the match. We fight, they make a really good switch. I don't know about my healer and tank but their tank is CCing me while I'm being Gore-Ravaged and the Merc is freecasting on me as well. I should've Broke+Shroud+Overload and I'm inexperienced on my Sin in group ranked so that is my bad. Instead I tried to phase walk out, only to realize after a confused moment that it had expired about 10 seconds before their switch. One GCD later, I'm dead, we proceed to drop the round. Now, props to them. Great switches with full burst up, good CC, and I made a bit of a mistake by being greedy and trying to save my breaker. That being said, that switch could've come 3 minutes into the arena, or 4:30 into the arena, etc. Unless you wanna blow your stealth out and watch your team get sodomized 3v4 while you set it up again, I really don't understand its point in arenas. Meh. This sounds like a terrible example. Sometimes your DCD get wasted by timing out with no benefit. This is true of any class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 This sounds like a terrible example. Sometimes your DCD get wasted by timing out with no benefit. This is true of any class. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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