Xinika Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) You can global people as Deception Unless you're walking in with full PvE gear, it is very unlikely that any Assassin is going to global you. Our Discharge may hit 6 - 7k top end on equally geared targets, after that we can either LS and setup CrD (which has a 2s cast time - oh and which you should probably stop us from doing) We may get a Maul proc (which is RNG) and hit for a hefty number - perhaps 7k or even 10k but our sustainability is horrendous. (Actually we have one of the worst sustainability in game) So if you time us out, our damage isn't very scary - just spiky. Not to mention, it's heavily dependent on Force Cloak / Recklessness - so if the Assassin uses his or her cloak offensively and their burst fails, well - let's just say we won't be in the merriest of situations. Guard decimates an Assassin's damage output. Absolutely guts it. Commandos, Sages and Snipers have higher potential burst than Assassins as of 2.7. Vengeance Juggernauts are also right on par when their stars align. The only benefit Deception has is control over its burst. It's really not that spectacular. Assassins just never die! After we lose Blackout and Shroud, Deception can literally be globaled. Unless we Phase Walk out and walk the extra mile trying to get out of combat whilst our team mates continue combat one man down. We're in light armor, we'll take a lot of damage.Don't stun Madness Assassins. Let him do his pathetic damage and simply maul him down - no pun intended. He will die, very easily too.Darkness is weak against AoE specs and requires a full channel of FL to get its full mitigation effect. Just stop the channeling and voila, you have a gimped wannabe tank.If an Assassin Cloaks out of battle - they are out of the game. It's a two-edged sword because we're not doing damage from stealth. We can stand there and watch our team die - pretty much making us useless or go back in and die with a clean conscience. Force Shroud is an iWin button. Force Shroud lasts 3 seconds (5 seconds as tank) and only protects against force / tech attacks. White hits still go through it. In addition, it also bugs out a lot and the effect won't even work for us. So... casting into it isn't necessarily unwise due to that amazing 5% chance for it to simply fail! You can Phase Walk and get out of combat! Unless you're willing to waste your Force Cloak immediately after P. Walk, have fun standing around anywhere from 20 - 40 seconds trying to get out of combat whilst your team dies. Assassins are too versatile Maybe this was the case on release. As of now, Assassins are a one trick pony with a few shared tricks that many other classes share. Apparently our jack-of-trades deal was too special. Our toolset has been gutted and shared to other classes who can even do the utilities better. We're really not that complex anymore. Assassins do too much damage You're right, they do so much DPS they break first place and come out last. Assassins are the best tanks in PvP Clearly, as we can see here. Assassins were made to node guard. Well... um... you see... how do I say... well.. hmmm... err... yeaaahhhhhhhhhhh... Technically because of our toolset we are pretty good at it! But it is possible we can find ourselves tanking or dpsing in the middle of the battlefield as well. We may not be the best at in comparison to some of the pure classes (IE: Sniper / Mara or Jugg / PT for tanking) but it is possible for us to hold our own in the hands of a solid player. Will keep this thread updated. Feel free to join in my fellow Sins and add your own myth busts! Edited April 21, 2014 by Xinika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Assassins are only good as node guards. Lol no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) Just to clear something up, we only have control over our initial force burst, white damage burst (like maul) is rng. Assassins are and always were bad in wzs, especially post-2.0, but we are in an ok place in arenas-would be nice if we had a little more sustained for those tank/healer battles, but w/e. The problem is BW is balancing around arenas when 90% of the PvP (99% depending on the server) we do is in regs. You can't have both since the play style is so different. Snipers for example are amazing at regs but not that great at arenas unless they can get good positioning (not an easy chore unless you are smuggled in). It's the WoW problem all over again. Edited April 20, 2014 by sithBracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Assassins do too much damage You're right, they do so much DPS they break first place and come out last. Will keep this thread updated. Feel free to join in my fellow Sins and add your own myth busts! Yeah the one you just threw in there to muddy the water. The whole post you did was about PVP and you put in the PVE dps egoboard. Anyone experienced in PVP is well aware that PVE dps does not translate to PVP dps otherwise we'd be seeing hordes of the FOTM PVE specs dominating the WZ. A combination of control, survivability and the DPS you can do while people try to mess with you is more like it. Assassins are and always were bad in wzs, especially post-2.0, but we are in an ok place in arenas. Stop the press, we have the breaking and unexpected news that Assassins are and always were bad in warzones. Aside from you, can you name some others who would like to stand by you and say the same thing. Edited April 21, 2014 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Assassins are and always were bad in wzs, especially post-2.0 Da*** did i just read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrix Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I do not know where you get your information as you may say "Oh well I have played my own Assassin" please speak for yourself please as Assassins are very viable contribution wise. Just maybe all in all you need to L2p your class not bust the myths about them which are only your conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Edit: A lot of these questions / myths I've been asked and told via in game, pm, forums and many other sources. I figured it was about time such a thread existed. People have a very wrong idea that Assassins are unstoppable. Well, that's far from true. Edited April 21, 2014 by Xinika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaraExas Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 the way deception is talked about by people who have never played the class think that its the magic 36/36/36 spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 the way deception is talked about by people who have never played the class think that its the magic 36/36/36 spec. This /4char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrus Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Assassins are and always were bad in wzs, especially post-2.0, but we are in an ok place in arenas-would be nice if we had a little more sustained for those tank/healer battles, but w/e. See uh, I haven't played my Assassin in arenas in 2.7 yet, but I have in reg WZs. And the weapon damage fix was an insane buff to Deception. I'm getting 10-11k Mauls in every single game, on undergeared and geared players alike, and I'm not even full Obroan because I stopped playing my Sin in 2.5. That is basically every reg WZ for me since 2.7. Except, you know, I win sometimes. I have zero Brutalizer pieces. I'm enjoying it so much that I'm considering throwing together a double Deception arena comp to counter a double Carnage team that's popular on my server (they bet me 500k that double Carnage beats double Deception. I'm curious to find out.) Edited April 21, 2014 by Aetrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 See uh, I haven't played my Assassin in arenas in 2.7 yet, but I have in reg WZs. And the weapon damage fix was an insane buff to Deception. I'm getting 10-11k Mauls in every single game, on undergeared and geared players alike, and I'm not even full Obroan because I stopped playing my Sin in 2.5. I have zero Brutalizer pieces. I'm enjoying it so much that I'm considering throwing together a double Deception arena comp to counter a double Carnage team that's popular on my server (they bet me 500k that double Carnage beats double Deception. I'm curious to find out.) To be honest, Carnage backed by healers is slightly (not overly) stronger than Deception backed by healers. I play both classes / specs. However, double sin is my main comp so far in the new season to come but I am running a rather tricky comp. So I think it would depend on who the other 2 slots are. What are the other 2 slots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adaliaya Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Good post Xinika... I keep hoping there is ray of light for my PvE DPS Shadow lol:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Good post Xinika... I keep hoping there is ray of light for my PvE DPS Shadow lol:D There should be but don't get too excited. BW said they are going to try and make at least one of our DPS specs viable for PvE content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrus Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 To be honest, Carnage backed by healers is slightly (not overly) stronger than Deception backed by healers. I play both classes / specs. However, double sin is my main comp so far in the new season to come but I am running a rather tricky comp. So I think it would depend on who the other 2 slots are. What are the other 2 slots? They're either going to run a Merc healer or Op healer (same player, could do either), and a hybrid Jugg tank. I have no idea what we're going to be using. I play with 2 different teams, and the guys on the Carnage team are the ones I'm usually playing with (I'm usually one of the two Carnage players.) I want an op healer, and I'm thinking against double Carnage that PT tank would be best. Oil Slick is a nightmare to deal with for Carnage. IDK. That awe and swap burst is rough to deal with, but I'm thinking Low Slash switches can happen more frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Da*** did i just read... pre-2.4 when ranked was still 8v8 assassin was a regstar class and mostly used to node guard in ranked (if at all). On average how many ranked teams wanted an assassin dps over a marauder or sniper? The only assassins that were truly desirable, we all probably knew by name at the time. Edited April 21, 2014 by sithBracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) pre-2.4 when ranked was still 8v8 assassin was a regstar class and mostly used to node guard in ranked (if at all). On average how many ranked teams wanted an assassin dps over a marauder or sniper? Nothing was better at nodeguarding. That's simply what our class is made for. Not for midfights. A team without an Assassin in ranked wouldn't do very well. A good Assassin was a necessity. You shouldn't ever expect to be wanted there. That's not what your class was build for. The amount of games I won for my guild almost single handedly.. absolutely ridiculous. Nobody else could say that. Nothing while not being a sin. Edited April 21, 2014 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Nothing was better at nodeguarding. That's simply what our class is made for. Not for midfights. A team without an Assassin in ranked wouldn't do very well. A good Assassin was a necessity. You shouldn't ever expect to be wanted there. That's not what your class was build for. The amount of games I won for my guild almost single handedly.. absolutely ridiculous. Nobody else could say that. Nothing while not being a sin. Congratulations on being the best node guard ever ... and for validating what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Congratulations on being the best node guard ever ... and for validating what I said. Ehm yes. So stop expecting this class to ever end up in a place where they would be in those midfights. Because if that were the case, we'd be stupidly OP. Or lose vital class capabilities. Which I'm not willing to sacrifice just because you think the class should be something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Ehm yes. So stop expecting this class to ever end up in a place where they would be in those midfights. Because if that were the case, we'd be stupidly OP. Or lose vital class capabilities. Which I'm not willing to sacrifice just because you think the class should be something else. We're a melee class, where are we supposed to fight? Ninja cap? pick off people at the ends? Not all teams are that stupid unfortunately (and FYI, if they are, then our help is honestly not needed to win). If a team has healers next to 2 ranged classes, guarded by a tank and a good node guard, what will you do? Stand around and wait for someone to be stupid enough to run off by himself or constantly run over to the offnode only to be stalled and killed immediately? Pressure the guarded healer? The second they see you, you will be KBed, rooted and dead. Not all teams are made up of derps. Edited April 21, 2014 by sithBracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) I don't get stalled. I play around someone elses cooldowns and i catch them off guard. That's the only way to overtake a node from a proper player anyway. But I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Then again, you havn't been making a lot of sense lately. Edited April 21, 2014 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) -edit- Edited April 21, 2014 by sithBracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) We're a melee class, where are we supposed to fight? On that node! Get on it. Love it. Eat it. Breathe it. Sleep it. IT'S YOURS! ^_^ -edit- I saw it but I won't tell anyone. I promise. Edited April 21, 2014 by Xinika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) On that node! Get on it. Love it. Eat it. Breathe it. Sleep it. IT'S YOURS! ^_^ Omnomnomnode. No but seriously, with all the escapes, utility and burst.. defending a node is really what we outshine every other class in to a point where they shouldn't even bother. You don't belong in the pack, you're a lonewolf. Edited April 21, 2014 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) On that node! Get on it. Love it. Eat it. Breathe it. Sleep it. IT'S YOURS! ^_^ I usually file my nails while node guarding ... It is that boring. Seriously, though, do you really think it is ok to always be confined to node guarding? Every class should be able to experience some form of action and fun. I mean, that is the point of the game no? And I think op healers were better node guards than assassins in my experience, yet they still had another role to play. I saw it but I won't tell anyone. I promise. lol, well he editted his, so I have to edit mine or it won't make sense. Edited April 21, 2014 by sithBracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I usually file my nails while node guarding ... It is that boring. You weren't supposed to stay on your node all game if you were losing, and if you were winning, they would come for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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