Powertech Tank - All that is wrong with it right now

[Cegwulf]

When you can put 4-5 abilities on the same key, the problem isn't the fact you can macro, the problem is that your class design sucks balls. Those macros are functionally EQUIVALLENT with simply putting those 4-5 abilities on keys 1-5 and then pressing all the keys at the same time with your entire hand.

 

Rift had the brilliant design of making certain classes consists of nothing more then a bunch of instant nukes on various cooldowns, obviously people made macros that would shot the nukes in order of highest damage.

 

I'll repeat this again. YOU CAN MIMIC FALL-THROUGH MACROS BY ROLLING YOUR HEAD ON THE KEYBOARD.

 

For a better look at Macros and their gameplay effect, you should look at World of Warcraft. It doesn't allow fallthrough macros even though you can mimic them with /castrandom or just do it externally, either way it doesn't matter since most DPS rotations in WoW are too complex to be macro'd.

 

This is because they all depend heavily on keeping buffs/debuffs up or managing your energy resources, neither of which is macroable.

 

What we want macros for is not really putting all skills on the same key for facerolling, but rather so that we can more easily manage our hotkeys by for instance making the same keybinding do different things depending on if we target a friend or an enemy, keybind certain phrases so we don't have to retype them all the time etc etc

 

Imagine missing the entire boat of what I was saying... stop trying to be so defensive.

 

So i will ask again, is this really the path we want to go down with introducing functions and features that already exsist in the MMO genre of games? The OP was complaining in one of his replies about the lack of gamebreaking/innovative ideas but still wants to bring in old ideas.

 

I think the gameplay of the Powertech tank doesnt lend itself to macros, because of the fact you have to think on your feet and actually manage your engagements instead of popping an AoE to keep aggro off your DD's.

[Opferlamm]

First I thought the post was serious and I wanted to help.

Then the arguments were pointing to hard-trolling.

After that it tended to a whining post.

Now I do think it is serious and I am greatful I do not experience any of the problems (except for the lack of hotbars down in the middle.)

[Zironic]

Imagine missing the entire boat of what I was saying... stop trying to be so defensive.

 

So i will ask again, is this really the path we want to go down with introducing functions and features that already exsist in the MMO genre of games? The OP was complaining in one of his replies about the lack of gamebreaking/innovative ideas but still wants to bring in old ideas.

Ofcourse we do. If we know other games have done things in a way that's better then how this game currently does them, then obviously we will point at the other games as good sources of 'inspiration' for this game.

 

If you or Bioware can think of something better, then that's great, however meanwhile we know what works.

I think the gameplay of the Powertech tank doesnt lend itself to macros, because of the fact you have to think on your feet and actually manage your engagements instead of popping an AoE to keep aggro off your DD's.

 

Just off the top of my head, I want:

Mouseover Quell

Mouseover Neural Dart

Energy shield/Determination announcement

 

If they allowed castrandom/fallthrough macros I'd also stuff Rocket Punch/Rail Shot/Rapid Shots into a spam macro.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Zironic

[Cegwulf]

If you or Bioware can think of something better, then that's great, however meanwhile we know what works.

 

That is what I am basically asking because of what the OP had said. If he thinks BW isnt doing something groundbreaking then what would he suggest instead of grabbing from other games that has made easy mode the way of the day.

 

Just off the top of my head, I want:

Mouseover Quell

Mouseover Neural Dart

Energy shield/Determination announcement

 

If they allowed castrandom/fallthrough macros I'd also stuff Rocket Punch/Rail Shot/Rapid Shots into a spam macro.

 

I can understand that... didnt say it didnt need tweaking. The mouseover command would be extremely useful for healers as it stands now you can only really do a target (1 tank) hotkey type of heal, not very feasable in the warzones.

[Elicas]

I disagree with most of your points.

 

Shoulder slam needs a tweak so it's usable against bosses, perhaps making it an ability that requires a DoT in place same as Rail Shot.

 

Otherwise, it's just number tweaking, everything is just about dandy for us in my opinion.

[anwg]

I personally believe that there should be a valid choice between using Rapid Shots and Flame Burst. Even if this means that Rapid Shots get only buffed massively for Merc due to Talents and we only get a slight buff in Pyrotech for that skill, while our other trees buff Flame Burst a lot. I'd like to see this tweaked.

 

If they do what you suggest, they'd have to give every other class a spamable attack that costs nothing, and buff the basic attack of every other class as well. In other words we'd be back to square one.

 

Flame burst works fine as it is.

[Sinemetu]

As a healer, I'm feeling pretty sad about all the Oil Slick and Kolto Vents hate. For every Powertech out there taking them off their bars because they "don't see a difference," there's a healer saying "I don't heal BHs because they all suck."

 

No lie.

[Drake_Hound]

I am really having issues with the powertech damage capacity .

Don´t get me wrong , cause max barrel mod every time it is available .

 

Still the damage is simply too low to kill off strong (i call them LT like city of heroes)

Fast enough without even warranting me popping GCD for cooldowns .

 

Yes the old saying you are suppose to be a tank not damage dealer .

F it already am forced to use MAKO all the time , cause survivability is way too low.

Kolto Overload is crap rather give me medpack ability that scales .

 

Shoulder slam stop waisting time with that .. make it usable against bosses and players the incapacitated or stunned etc , with 45 second cooldown is enough negativity .

 

All boils down to that Powertech damage is really too low , especially if we are trading damage for survivability of shielding and defense armor mods and enhancement .

 

So I rather see a talent option that says converts X% of shielding as Y% damage buff.

Since we need shielding , now I do not agree with OP suggestions to make Powertech OverPowered .

 

Grapple Shoulder Charge is fine , cause it is part of the kitting technic in PvP and PvE for killing melee heavy bosses .

 

I Do agree a lot of things have to look into , like channel abilities for Powertech Tanks .

Especially since have to so freaking often Interrupt >.< That have to cancel my channeling .

 

Edit also remove Death from above too close for powertech tanks ... it is rubbish anyway that NPC can use there Death from above directly on me .

But I have to place it with perfection >.< to able to use it .

Edited December 26, 2011 by Drake_Hound

[BusyT]

On a total side note, I'd love to have a defensive animation (equivalent to parry), due to the fact that standing infront of a dude getting hit in the face for 3 mins straight and basically only randomly dodging once in a while doesn't really look very dynamic.

[brazthemad]

lol goddamnit this whole thread is just QQ I don't know how to play my class. Shield tech PT is crazy op if people know how to play it. I've been having nothing but wild success in both tanking and pvp. Healers love me, and I clear the same amount of content as a dps class at the same rate. Sure, individual fights take longer, but I finish even big pulls with >90% health. I agree that shoulder slam needs to be reevaluated, but that's fine. All the QQ needs to stop, and you guys need to look more closely at what the class can and can't do.

[Drake_Hound]

lol gosh darnit this whole thread is just QQ I don't know how to play my class. Shield tech PT is crazy op if people know how to play it. I've been having nothing but wild success in both tanking and pvp. Healers love me, and I clear the same amount of content as a dps class at the same rate. Sure, individual fights take longer, but I finish even big pulls with >90% health. I agree that shoulder slam needs to be reevaluated, but that's fine. All the QQ needs to stop, and you guys need to look more closely at what the class can and can't do.

 

Are you high or something , if you equip critical gear and reflex gear you don´t do very well with shielding ..

So please stop QQ about QQ and OP , and learn to min max first before you ad something rubbishe like this .

 

Yeah we all know how to exploit the system if really needed , but doesn´t mean it is suppose to be that way ... want tank gear powertech damage increased , instead of ending up in reflex and critical gear .

[Zironic]

lol gosh darnit this whole thread is just QQ I don't know how to play my class. Shield tech PT is crazy op if people know how to play it. I've been having nothing but wild success in both tanking and pvp. Healers love me, and I clear the same amount of content as a dps class at the same rate. Sure, individual fights take longer, but I finish even big pulls with >90% health. I agree that shoulder slam needs to be reevaluated, but that's fine. All the QQ needs to stop, and you guys need to look more closely at what the class can and can't do.

 

Your post has nothing to do with anything that has been written in this thread. Powertech works fairly well, but that doesn't stop Flamethrower from being a PITA, Kolto Overload, Shoulder Slam and Heat Blast from being almost worthless and Oil Slick from being rather hard to get good use from.

[xioix]

do i have this right---all mobs have over 90% chance of hitting me, right? so when i use oil slick they are still able to hit me 70% of the time? isn't that a little bit much for an "oh shi" ability?

[Raylare]

OK so, everyone's brought up valid points, both positive and negative.

 

The skills that every other powertech get, are fine.

 

its the completely underwhelmed feeling i get with heat blast oil slick, and jet charge.

 

lets start with heat blast. its cooldown is good for its height up the skill tree. but its damage is absolutely abysmal. take a juggs end tree skill for example. at the same gear/level as my powertech, my guild-mates jugg hits 1500s(with a 60% threat increase, so that's 2.4k threat on ONE HIT) on his final skill, while mine hits 700? all well and good that it vents 8 heat, but that does sweet **** all in my group, ive got assassins and snipers dropping mental amounts of damage, that i barely keep up with.

 

now for jet charge. its a TANKING SKILL, in the TANKING TREE. that we get to use... once in a single boss fight? ONCE? its damage is fine. its cool down is fine, its range is not. for being so high up the skill tree, it has nearly no use in a PVE environment.

 

now for oil slick. before you even go into mechanics, look at the juggs skill of the same tier. 40% damage reduction? now for the assassin,, they get a 15% shield chance buff for 20 seconds, it only has 8 charges yes, but its CD is only 12 seconds with 10% force use. oil slick? we get a 20% acc reduction... yeah i know, underwheling.

 

easy response to the first 2, that doesn't change PvP in the *********** slightest.

 

heat blast, easy response, it doesn't do much damage? cool, triple its threat gain (that's still less than a 5 sunder juggy hit)

 

jet charge, again easy response, drop its min range to 4m, 5 if your feeling picky, that keeps us in rocket punch range

 

now oil slick is... tricky. changing a skill like this would have fundamental PvP ramifications. i don't like the skill, but I see no way to change it without changing pvp to much. i liked the 'set it on fire' approach. we don't gain any more avoidance, but we DO gain an easily avoidable(for pvp reference) aoe threat gain ability.

 

this is just my opinion, coming from a powertech tank, that has to deal with 2 assassins a sniper and a PT dps, all geared to **** and with more brains than normal folks.

[Dademoor]

I rarely post on these forums due to the insane amounts of negitivity floating around .. but I kinda liked your post. It was fairly well written and has some good ideas.

 

Here are a few comments I have on your concepts for changes to our core skills:

 

• Flamethrower castable while moving. Either basic or at least a Shield Tech talent.

I like this idea! There have been far too many times Flame Thrower has been just out of range. As you said, perhaps adding a high level talent to allow us to move while channeling this ability.

 

• Flame Burst no heat cost to replace Rapid Shots for Melee-Heavy Powertech (while keeping Shots for Pyrotech).

As it stands I already do quite a lot of damage compared to your average group member, replacing Rapid Shots with Flame Burst is only asking for a nerf. This will not happen, though it would be nice to have more than 1 low damage Heat-Free ability, maybe use Rapid Shots for your ranged free skill, and 1 more <4m skill to use for us BHs that like to stand toe-to-toe.

 

• Oil Slick a targetable spells, 2nd Button press ignites it to create a hell of flames that generates a high amount of aoe aggro, but doesn't deal much damage.

I use this ability practically on cooldown, this ability basically adds 20% to your overall avoidance aginst ALL enemies, and "sticks" to them so if you are kiting, or a DPS pulls off you it's still active as it is beating on them. I would LOVE to see the option to set the Oil Slick on fire though. "Adds a moderate amount of threat" would be nice too.

 

• At least lowering of Grapple min range to 3m instead of 10m. Preferably -10 on it's basic cooldown.

This has bugged me to no end. The primary reason I am tanking as a BH is due to there ability to control the battlefield through the use of a Charge, AND a Pull. Where other tanks only have one, or the other. Having to constantly reposition yourself mid-combat just to pull a mob into your range is silly. I believe at the minimum it should be able to pull mobs into your Flame Thrower range, so reduce the minimum range to 8m.

 

• Jet Charge min range lowered to 3m, bonus threat

I don't really see the need to reduce the minimum range on this. Even the increased threat is not really necessary. 9/10 times after a Jet Charge I follow up with a Rocket Punch, then a Rail Shot, and by that time aggro is mine for a good while, even if I switch targets.

 

• Kolto Overload needs to be buffed, either by talent or basic (PvP Problems)

Eh ... I am on the fence on this one. You need to think of this ability as more of a defensive cooldown rather than a heal. I have it positioned right next to my Energy Shield and Defense Adrenal. It's a great trio of buttons to hit during those oh cr@p moments.

 

• Flame Sweep range increase to 10m

While this would be an increase to the BH tank quality of life, I do not believe it to be necessary. Don't get me wrong, it would be great if it was a 10m AoE, but with all the control we have over the battlefield, and the other AoEs we already have, I think it might be considered overkill.

 

• Entire rework of Shoulder Slam

Agreed, this has never, nor will never be on my hotbar.

 

• Heat Blast either massive increase in it's heat reduce or massiv cooldown reduce. Preferably while also adding some bonus threat for single target aggro.

I use this ability on cooldown, I like its quick animation, and it is very easy to weave into any rotation type. This along with Shield Vents are vital abilities we use to keep our heat at normal levels, and actually increases our threat/DPS by a significant margin.

[tronot]

I have a well geared level 50 PT tank and I'll just go ahead and disagree with all of your points. PT tanks are just fine as is.

[Uggliey]

lets start with heat blast. its cooldown is good for its height up the skill tree. but its damage is absolutely abysmal. take a juggs end tree skill for example. at the same gear/level as my powertech, my guild-mates jugg hits 1500s(with a 60% threat increase, so that's 2.4k threat on ONE HIT) on his final skill, while mine hits 700? all well and good that it vents 8 heat, but that does sweet **** all in my group, ive got assassins and snipers dropping mental amounts of damage, that i barely keep up with.

 

While heat blast doesn't do crazy damage. It's off the GCD. It's bonus damage that also helps control your heat. Would it be nice to do more damage? sure! Is it needed? Not at all (even less so now with 1.3 for PvE tanking) If you were struggling with aggro in 1.2, 1.3 should fix it for you. But I suggest that if you were struggling with 1.2, you learn how to get a proper skill rotation going and learn how Taunts work. Outside the first 10 seconds of a fight I never lose aggro unless there is a mechanic involved where I am supposed to. 1.3 should be even more easy mode aggro.

 

TL : DR L2P Heat Blast is fine, and if have 30 points in Shield tree, get it for one point.

 

now for jet charge. its a TANKING SKILL, in the TANKING TREE. that we get to use... once in a single boss fight? ONCE? its damage is fine. its cool down is fine, its range is not. for being so high up the skill tree, it has nearly no use in a PVE environment.

 

No use for PvE? Do you even tank in this game? Distance closing, jump in and AE before everyone else does. With 1.3, it will be even more useful as an opener. Again. L2P.

 

now for oil slick. before you even go into mechanics, look at the juggs skill of the same tier. 40% damage reduction? now for the assassin,, they get a 15% shield chance buff for 20 seconds, it only has 8 charges yes, but its CD is only 12 seconds with 10% force use. oil slick? we get a 20% acc reduction... yeah i know, underwheling.

 

Oil Slick is a great PvE tool (PvP also vs some classes). Almost all mobs in PvE are effected by it if they are in range when you drop it. Every 60 seconds you get hit 20% less. The reason Juggs and Sorc get different options is because they tanjk differently and NEED those skills to even be comparable. Oil Slick is a great tool. More L2P.

 

As a fairly well geared Power Tech tank, I too say you are wrong.

[NefNef]

I have a well geared level 50 PT tank and I'll just go ahead and disagree with all of your points. PT tanks are just fine as is.

 

Agreed. This is one of the funniest thread I have read in awhile. I am glad someone decided to bring it back from the dead.

 

Healers love healing me, and I crush jugg tanks and am right behind assassin tanks on the DPS meters (although i believe their dmg was nerfed today, so I should be ahead of them now too). Clearly a lot of the people that have posted here need to learn how to play the class instead of expecting tanking to be as brain dead as dps.

 

Just because you play the class doesn't mean it should be completely OP

[wetslampigduex]

yeah i agree with the last few posters this thread is laughable.. the only thing that could be fixed is shoulder slam i honestly ripped it off my bar one day and didnt notice for 2 months it was gone(u dont need it) as far as oil slick it works fine and like someone else posted if you happen to lose aggro on a mob they arent doing full dmg so it dont matter... and as far as kolto overload goes you have to use it when u hit your shield on boss fights it will keep your health at a stand still and allow you healers to get the big heal off.. ive rolled a juggy tank i would take a PT 15 times out of 10 being able to pull and the amount of aoe threat you get is 10x better than juggy... ps there is no need for a cc at all in this game esp with a PT round them up and AOE the hell out of everything win(in most mobs in fp there is only really 1 or maybe 2 npc's un grouped you can normally pull a far one in and as i said aoe the hell out of everything esp now w/ 2 free flame sweeps)