Guardians / Juggs, ED needs a tone down?

[Ugolino]

Wow ... you are saying xinika, the person who made a name for herself with the assassin class and was voted the representative (back when we had way more good players than we have now) is bad at it? You are a funny little man.

 

His opinion is also irrelevant, as I've never heard "Guardian" spelled as "assassin" before. Now go cheerlead on your class forum and cry about the change there; you'll get a better reception for your qq.

 

EDIT: From someone with more patience for your ******** and less inclination to troll:

This crap is why I freaking HATE lopsided cooldowns and specs. People always remember when the jug H2F's, and never notices when it is on its obnoxious cooldown or when it just fizzes and dies. Gets the "OP" or "FOTM" label without doing so because people LOVE to whine, and people ALWAYS remember when they get stomped.

 

Jugs were a free kill before 2.7, right next to sorcerers. Whenever I played an arena, if one of the enemy was a DPS juggernaut, most effective way was to burst it down sorta like a PVE kill order. Without ED, Jug's "Other defensives" are crap, don't even pretend that their "other defenses" are significant. They aren't, as proven by how easy to kill a "juggernaut" was before 2.7

 

Devs wanted a long CD powerfully lopsided defensive for some odd reason. I would *happily* trade this ED for something more reliable and consistent with a lower cooldown, but FFS Juggernauts do not need to be easy kills again.

 

This should be the end of the argument, and yet...

Edited April 18, 2014 by Ugolino

[Groncho]

Wow ... you are saying xinika, the person who made a name for herself with the assassin class and was voted the representative (back when we had way more good players than we have now) is bad at it? You are a funny little man.

 

u should read that post again, it seems u didn't get it

[TonyDragonflame]

Wow ... you are saying xinika, the person who made a name for herself with the assassin class and was voted the representative (back when we had way more good players than we have now) is bad at it? You are a funny little man.

 

He was voted cuz he have most loud mouth with loud crying, nothing more.

 

Good players adapt and win, bads whining on forums in several threads about same again.

 

There is something kinda 2-3 juggs/guardians in Top-100 Leadeboards season 1, now our time have comes. Deal with it, adapt, or unsub, but pretty shut up on forum cuz its really boring hear again and again same whining from you and Xinika about guardians/juggs. They already get huge nerf with smash thanks your whining, and finally they are not free kill anymore. Deal with it and stop complaining like 9 years kids.

[Yamahara]

Considering I've seen a hybrid sage do 3600dps in an arena..no one should be talking about how OP Enraged defense is. In the 20 group ranked matches I did Wednesday I maybe did between 60k-70k in heals from ED in a 3 round match. While a DPS sorc did over 100k. Quit your ************ the only use guardian/jugg had until now was tanking in arenas. No team that wanted to win pre 2.7 had a dps guardian in their comp.

[GrandLordMenace]

Seriously why are people whining about the class that's modeled over the most iconic class in SW having some survivability? It's meant to be burned through, just like the gigantic bubble after barrier is meant to be burned through.

 

And seriously if the heal is so deadly, you have heal debuffs for a reason...

Edited April 18, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[Xinika]

Wow ... you are saying xinika, the person who made a name for herself with the assassin class and was voted the representative (back when we had way more good players than we have now) is bad at it? You are a funny little man.

Just leave the trolls. It's honestly amusing.

[Trixdope]

Sins much crying, such tears.

[Xinika]

Sins much crying, such tears.

Yes, that is totally what this thread is about.

[Yamahara]

Getting rather salty because I called out the obvious overpowered. At any rate, I've reported this post.

 

And you can't respond to legitimate arguments to your OP. DPS guardian was not viable at all in arenas pre 2.7. You must of just queued solo ranked or 8v8 most of the time because otherwise you would know this to be true. No team that wanted to win would be stupid enough to have a dps guardian/jugg with them. ED puts out less than 100k in healing in 3 rounds vs legit comps in arenas. You'd probably realize that if you were competitive in group ranked. Yeah, they can heal to full almost like DPS sages/sorc..but they do nowhere near the dps output of hybrid sage/sorcs are doing right now.

[Xinika]

And you can't respond to legitimate arguments to your OP.

I did and so did many other people, unless you wish to discredit them of course. I don't think any DPS class should have the ability to heal to full with the exception of Sorc / Sage who may run in a corner and do so. I don't think I need to say anything more, it's already in the thread - read it.

 

DPS guardian was not viable at all in arenas pre 2.7.

Not my concern and not what this thread is about.

[Xinika]

How the hell is the viability of a class supposed to be irrelevant to a discussion of their cooldowns? Unless you're saying you're just here to push for mindless nerfs, in which case thank you for admitting that you're a dishonest scrub with nothing to contribute to any discussion on a class other than the one you cheerlead for.

Okay.

[xMaranathax]

Allow me to shed some light.

 

Shinarika is a damn good Assassin and I respect her very much. She's helped me more than once with my Shadow.

 

If anyone thinks that she can't win a 1v1 against ANY class, I feel sorry for them and will help pick their rear up off the floor after Shinarika wipes the floor with them.

 

As for the original topic...as with ANY new mechanic, there's a learning curve. Let's see how it is in a month's time. They only get it once per fight anyway....

[sithBracer]

You're right. It isn't. You two clowns are the only ones crying "NERF NAO", while most of the thread seems to realize that, shockingly, a class might need more than a single useful defensive cooldown to be viable.

 

Umm, the majority of this thread are people who actually say it is OP, and even many of the guardians are ok with the time limit moving down from 30 to 5-8 seconds.

 

None of you clowns even gave one reason why this would be bad. It would still help survive focus fire, but would now at least have some kind of counter.

 

You want to have a discussion, go ahead and reply why you need all 30 seconds, since everyone who is defending this move has the exact same argument: "it helps me survive focus fire".

Edited April 18, 2014 by sithBracer

[Ugolino]

Okay.

 

No, seriously, you managed to get my attention at last. Answer the question.

 

How is the class's viability not relevant to a discussion about one of their cooldowns? I'm dead serious. What kind of logic went into that post? What could possibly have made that line seem like a good idea?

 

In other words, what are you smoking and is it legal?

[MusicRider]

You're right. It isn't. You two clowns are the only ones crying "NERF NAO", while most of the thread seems to realize that, shockingly, a class might need more than a single useful defensive cooldown to be viable.

 

These two clowns you are talking about and I can assure you there are many more, know much more about the game and actually care about game balance. Your posts clearly state that you are the exact opposite and typical behaviour is to go on with personal attacks. Cliche.

[Ugolino]

These two clowns you are talking about and I can assure you there are many more, know much more about the game and actually care about game balance. Your posts clearly state that you are the exact opposite and typical behaviour is to go on with personal attacks. Cliche.

 

You'll excuse me for being skeptical about both points. The TOR forums are sewage anyway; any attempt at serious discussion would be a waste of time so I rarely bother. You're free to let that bother you.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Ugolino

[Groncho]

Umm, the majority of this thread are people who actually say it is OP, and even many of the guardians are ok with the time limit moving down from 30 to 5-8 seconds.

 

None of you clowns even gave one reason why this would be bad. It would still help survive focus fire, but would now at least have some kind of counter.

 

You want to have a discussion, go ahead and reply why you need all 30 seconds, since everyone who is defending this move has the exact same argument: "it helps me survive focus fire".

 

keyword "majority"

Pls kid, carry on, jugg/guardians are competitive now, and they still melt when focused

Im sorry your class is having some problems handling them

There are more Op classes/hybrids and specs than any combination of skills-specs of jugg/guardians u can build

[Xinika]

You'll excuse me for being skeptical about both points. The TOR forums are sewage anyway; any attempt at serious discussion would be a waste of time so I rarely bother. You're free to let that bother you.

Good, so you're a part of that sewage. Some of us don't wish to be. Forgive me if I don't take any of your posts seriously. At least I can respect Andrew's posts and understand his PoV over the following, useless and arguably defensive nonsense:

- Sin tears

- QQ

- UR BAD

- L2P

- Can't 1v1 me nao bro?

 

Last one's also funny, because I'm still beating guardians 1v1.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Xinika

[Yamahara]

I did and so did many other people, unless you wish to discredit them of course. I don't think any DPS class should have the ability to heal to full with the exception of Sorc / Sage who may run in a corner and do so. I don't think I need to say anything more, it's already in the thread - read it.

 

 

Not my concern and not what this thread is about.

 

Not your concern? All I've seen from you was whining so far. Enraged Defense was made this way to make guardian/jugg viable again in Arenas. It heals maybe for 20k per round.. the rest is from a medpac. Yeah, the sorc can run away/los and heal himself..that's pretty OP considering there are sorcs doing 3-4k dps right now in regs and ranked. Besides enraged defense guardian/jugg has no defensives whatsoever. None that do a damn thing anyways to help them.

[Xinika]

Not your concern? All I've seen from you was whining so far. Enraged Defense was made this way to make guardian/jugg viable again in Arenas. It heals maybe for 20k per round.. the rest is from a medpac. Yeah, the sorc can run away/los and heal himself..that's pretty OP considering there are sorcs doing 3-4k dps right now in regs and ranked. Besides enraged defense guardian/jugg has no defensives whatsoever. None that do a damn thing anyways to help them.

If you believe a class needs an overpowered ability to be viable then that's your opinion and also where our conversation ends.

[sithBracer]

These two clowns you are talking about and I can assure you there are many more, know much more about the game and actually care about game balance. Your posts clearly state that you are the exact opposite and typical behaviour is to go on with personal attacks. Cliche.

 

I wouldn't put me in the same group as xinika, as she is much more experienced than me.

 

I do care about balance though, which is why I just think the timer should be changed to 5-8 seconds. Every power move should have a cost and/or counter. This one has none.

[Yamahara]

If you believe a class needs an overpowered ability to be viable then that's your opinion and also where our conversation ends.

 

 

I wouldn't mind if it was cut down to 15 seconds, but I don't think you realize how bad the class was before and how bad it's other defensives really are.

[Ugolino]

Good, so you're a part of that sewage. Some of us don't wish to be. Forgive me if I don't take any of your posts seriously. At least I can respect Andrew's posts and understand his PoV over the following, useless and arguably defensive nonsense:

- Sin tears

- QQ

- UR BAD

- L2P

 

Considering you haven't produced a single decent argument so much as a vague appeal to "Guardians healing? That has to be overpowered" rather than any actual attempt to place it in context with the state of the other classes in the game, you're coming off as >This class might do well against sins, better argue for a nerf. Which is frankly dishonest, defensive (curious choice of wording there) and reflects badly on you.

 

When you can put forth a proper argument, I'll put some effort into replying. Until then, you get the same level of material you're putting out. Better stick to what you know, or do better if you want a serious discussion about ED.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Ugolino

[Xinika]

I wouldn't mind if it was cut down to 15 seconds, but I don't think you realize how bad the class was before and how bad it's other defensives really are.

Okay and I'm not denying any of that. I am, however, rightfully concerned about the ability in its current state - which I find over tuned. I asked the question (mainly pointed at BW) if it was intentional the way it is performing right now.

 

or do better if you want a serious discussion about ED.

Already had it from smarter and more qualified guardians / juggs, but thank you for the offer.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Xinika

[MusicRider]

You'll excuse me for being skeptical about both points. The TOR forums are sewage anyway; any attempt at serious discussion would be a waste of time so I rarely bother. You're free to let that bother you.

 

If you think you are bothering people then you are giving more credit to yourself than for what it actually counts. I am massively enjoying this thread and the idiotic arguments I read. In case you haven't realised the point raised was that although guardians needed survivability buffs to be closer to the balance line and viable for arenas, the way it was done is game breaking. Failure to realise that there is a particular mechanic of your class that is not fair implies that you don't care about balance or have no clue about balance. And since for some weird reason there seems to be a constant comparison with sages, then let me give you some examples of care about overall game balance behaviour than solely caring about my class being OP. Many players (including myself) condemned the group bubble stun fiasco even if it was against them as they were tremendously nerfing their utility (if you have played long enough you will know about it). Same people today condemn the healing/dps hybrid that gets a dps slot as it is unfair and game-breaking. Can you look at yourself and say that you care about balance or does it bother you too much that your class has been an underdog that now you just want to be immortal without playing the spec, see what I did there .