The Pros and Cons of GSF - 2.7 edition

[Sidenti]

PROS:

 

* It's dogfighting in space.

* A decent minigame in an MMO that sorely lacks 'em

* Opens up another RP option - naval pilot

* The Denon battle map is the best battle map of all battle maps anywhere ever

 

CONS:

 

* Might as well be called "Galactic Scoutfighter" for all the good the other ship roles do against 'em

* Far too much of an "arcade" feel to be called immersive

* Exceptionally steep learning/success curve for new players

* Continuous "Work-In-Progress" developments, lack of content give feature unfinished, "beta" feel

 

= = =

 

I've flown 850+ missions on the Ebon Hawk. Not as much as some, but a lot more than most. I've seen this game progress - and regress - ever since its launch in December. I feel that I now have enough data, even lacking the stealth ships, to know what I've got here. For me, anyway.

 

I'm bored with it. In my opinion as a Pike pilot and as a healbomber pilot who only ever supported one gunship at a time and never gunballed, the brief period between 2.6 and 2.7 was actually the best. (I don't know why everyone else had a problem with gunballs and fleeing gunships - I broke gunballs and killed gunships with consistent regularity.) Tactics were used. Ships had cleaner, more well-defined and more SENSIBLE roles. (I'm sorry, Scout pilots, but your "tinfoil" cannons that can one-and-two shot most things? Not even remotely realistic. Someone explain to me how it is and I'll come off of it.) If you didn't fly as a team? You were likely boned.

 

Then 2.7 came along and reversed the positive gains made. Gunships are virtually unplayable, solo OR in team, because they can't mount an effective escape. Why would I want to fly something I KNOW is gonna get me killed?

 

Bombers have a strong role, but I can see the writing on the wall now for the offensive types - nerfs are coming, and the offensive bombers don't deserve them. If they get nerfed, it will be solely because of pilot whining. (I mean, really, what do you expect out of a damned bomber?! IT BOMBS! THAT'S WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO *DO*! Sorry - I'll compose myself.)

 

Scouts are back to being top **** on the battlefield, for whatever reason. It's a f*&^ing Scout craft. Scouts shouldn't have 20 kills. That's like telling me an ultralight hobby plane can slaughter an F-14 AND a B-52 in combat solely because of its maneuverability. Bollocks. (I know this statement in particular will cause excessive amounts of butthurt due to the sheer number of Scout pilots. Prove me wrong. Go kill an F-14 in an ultralight. Then let's talk aerial combat.)

 

Strike fighter's not bad, but to me the weapon loadouts could still make a bit more sense. Ion Cannons belong on Tier 2 fighters. Putting a close-range combat weapon on something that doesn't have an armor slot is begging for said T1 to get killed, which severely mitigates usage of one of the best tactical weapons in the game. I also don't understand how the Ion Cannon can't utilize Ion Missile tech to either make its damage output more consistent at range OR extend that range a little bit (while keeping the damage dropoff effect, of course - it's purely an either/or situation with the IC).

 

Bottom line?

 

Dogfighting is not a solo activity. It is a team effort that requires tactics and a wide range of options to be considered truly immersive and challenging. The constant and pronounced shift toward more solo play, the massive imbalance of BLC and its narrow availability, and the puzzling nerfs to non-Scoutcraft don't bode well for continued investment of time and effort, however.

 

I don't see it improving. So, just yank everything but Type 2 Scouts, give them only BLCs, and call the thing Galactic Scoutfighter if you want a solo experience that strongly favors loadout over tactics. But if you're like me and you want something more akin to the dogfighting experience?

 

Play something else. You missed your chance at that with GSF in between 2.6 and 2.7, and I don't see it coming back because it was far too much of a challenge that required far too much coordination, talent and attention paid than the AVERAGE (note the emphasis) pilot cares to have or learn.

 

But I'm just one guy. GSF will go on. So, have fun with it if you can. Really. I didn't write this to take away from your fun if that's how you experience the concept. Mainly, this is just something to link so the next time some schmoe asks why a named ace has quit wholesale, I've got a link I can show rather than have to send several tells.

 

Stay safe out there, pilots. It was fun for a while, wasn't it? -bp

[Fractalsponge]

I pretty much agree with everything you just said, even if you're going to get buried by the forum scout mafia . 2.6 - 2.7 were some good times.

 

I think what they tried to do with 2.7 was going in the right direction, but they overdid a lot of it.

- Ion railgun nerf - the pre-2.6 drain was too much, even for 25% charge. Even hardcore gunship pilots realized that something like this was due. No complaints.

 

- Making missiles better was a good idea, but the engine nerfs slowed everything down and disproportionately buffed the scouts.

 

- Barrel roll was too good relative to other options, but the 20s CD was too heavy-handed. 15s CD with increased cost, or 10s CD with lower distance traveled would have been far better, leaving it as a reliable escape for strikes and gunships but reducing its use in zipping around the map instead of using engine pool. The end result is that the battlefield got ceded to the scouts. Again. My sting is happy, but everything else is not.

 

- Bombers do have issues, but it's more about stacking bombers more than individual bombers being too good. If they found a way to implement a restricted number of mines/drones in a given area, I think it'll be fine. I do think the devs will overdo it again and nerf bombers into something completely uninteresting. And it's not that much fun to fly at baseline. The effects on the node in domination are the only thing going for the class, imho, so if they nerf it too hard no one will ever want to take them out.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Fractalsponge

[SammyGStatus]

The game overall feels a lot more slow. For everyone, but it seems to affect non-scouts mostly, which makes sense. Just tone down BLCs on scouts & decrease the effectiveness of multiple bombers (you could come up with a debuff that causes interference of forced mine detonation when more than x amount of mines are overlapping, or something). Edited April 16, 2014 by SammyGStatus

[Nomaad]

Gsf was much more fun to play when it was just scouts, gunships and strike fighters. Bombers ruined the game, but that's just my opinion.

[Elly_Dawn]

"Galactic Scoutfighter"?.. you're kidding right, this game has gotten even more Anti-Scout with each successive patch/update... if anything it's Pro-Bomber...

[AceFirstCav]

I do think the devs will overdo it again and nerf bombers into something completely uninteresting.

That would be best change for GSF Bombers totally ruined Dominion games. Players who do nothing except sitting under satelite and dropping mines are most effective. Whole concept of ship where most of work is done by AI is nonsense.

 

Scouts are fine as they are now, just BLC need some downgrade. It is really weird that such small ship has so much firepower.

 

Strikers are also good as they are, just waiting for some balance tuning of other ships. Most enjoyable are games with only strikers and scouts.

 

Gunships got what they deserved from the beginning. End of free shooting range with low risk.

 

And for me is Denon worst map ever. Too much big given the arcade style of GSF. Lots of time spend by boosting to satelite. Background with fighting main ships is nice at first sight, but it is just background. You can´t participate and help to shot down some big ship

[jankiel]

I feel like the game is more a bomber ball.

[Zoom_VI]

"Galactic Scoutfighter"?.. you're kidding right, this game has gotten even more Anti-Scout with each successive patch/update... if anything it's Pro-Bomber...

 

^^this

 

Also does anyone else find it disturbing that being called a "dogfighter" is becoming more and more a derogatory term? This particularly worrisome since Star Wars space combat was based off of WW2 dogfighting footage

[Zoom_VI]

Scouts are back to being top **** on the battlefield, for whatever reason. It's a f*&^ing Scout craft. Scouts shouldn't have 20 kills. That's like telling me an ultralight hobby plane can slaughter an F-14 AND a B-52 in combat solely because of its maneuverability. Bollocks. (I know this statement in particular will cause excessive amounts of butthurt due to the sheer number of Scout pilots. Prove me wrong. Go kill an F-14 in an ultralight. Then let's talk aerial combat.)

 

Are you seriously kidding me? You decided that because some random person in BW decided to call the interceptor class a "Scout" that therefore said class should not be viable in PvP and you seem to think all their functionality should be handed off to strikes?!

 

We are fortunate people like you are not a developer. Like really, game balance should never be based off of RL, because real life warcraft are specifically designed to create as much imbalance as possible.

 

You entire post reeks of a mediocre to bad strike pilot who is out of touch with the current meta, seriously your post might have been valid in maybe 2.5.

[Nemarus]

Having played tons of GSF since closed beta in October, I'll say the game has gone through many peaks and valleys of fun and balance.

 

Phase 1: early closed beta

Scouts and Strikes were dominant and Gunships were pretty underpowered, was very fun ... but probably a bit simple and lacking in tactical depth.

 

Phase 2: mid closed beta

Gunships were buffed to about their current levels of damage, to the point where countering them was required. The game remained fun, and threatening Gunships added some tactical heft. A high point.

Phase 3: late closed beta

Bombers were first introduced and were ridiculously overpowered. Wailing and gnashing of teeth. The worst the game has ever been.

 

Phase 4: Early access December

Bombers pulled, bringing the game back similar to Phase 2. Good times and wide variety of builds and ships.

 

Phase 5: Early access January and Feburary

BLC/Evasion Scouts and Ion Gunship superbuilds surface as inherently superior and dominate Domination. Other ships and builds are cut out completely. A low point.

 

Phase 6: Early 2.6

Evasion nerf. Bombers arrive and aren't as bad as feared. Perhaps even welcomed, as they prove to be a hard counter to BLC Scout scourge. Deathmatch mixes things up, and most ships are well balanced there. Bombers aren't stacking just yet, and Bomber superbuilds have not yet surfaced. Strikes do well. Ion Railguns are still overpowered (especially now that every Gunship Barrel Rolls if cornered), but I'd still call this a relative mid to high point.

 

Phase 7: Late 2.6

Bomber/Gunship formations ("Bomberballs") start to appear in TDM. Bombers begin stacking on nodes in Domination. Scouts of all kinds having difficulty, especially in Domination. Effective Strikes remain uncommon. New Gunship variant arrives to laughter and scorn. Everyone is using Barrel Roll on everything. The game is too fast for many players to score kills.

 

Phase 8: Early 2.7

Barrel Roll and other engine abilities are nerfed. Ion Railgun is finally tamed to something reasonable (it only took 5 months). Gunships are killed more often now. Skilled play is required to do well in one. The game is slowed down and missiles are more effective. TDM is pretty well balanced. Bomberballs still work well to farm new pilots, but skilled groups can take them down. New command variants of Scout and Strike arrive to mixed reviews. This would be a high point--perhaps the highest point--except that Domination is under threat by the spread of the overpowered Seismic/Interdiction Minelayer, and Bomber stacking in both modes remains an issue, especially with regard to new player first impressions.

 

Going forward, I think the most immediate issues are the Seismic/Interdiction Minelayer, and then after that, Bomber stacking in general. The new command variants could also use a few buffs to make them better support ships than Bombers (or the same could be accomplished through Bomber nerfs).

 

I'm still having fun, but I feel like the game is on another precipice where all but a few select builds could be pushed to the sidelines, especially in Domination.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Nemarus

[Devrius]

^^this

 

Also does anyone else find it disturbing that being called a "dogfighter" is becoming more and more a derogatory term? This particularly worrisome since Star Wars space combat was based off of WW2 dogfighting footage

 

I think this is where they went wrong, they tried to capture the feel of dogfighting in the WWII era.

 

I play War Thunder, if I'm about to over shoot an enemy I have to go into a a "high yoyo" to conserve energy (read speed and altitude) to place myself behind him and light him up.

 

In GSF though? I slow down or come to a full stop.

 

In GSF, we don't have: taking off, landing, g-force (turning so hard your wing rips off or the pilot faints), maneuverability/speed diminished by damage (wing, engine and so on) altitude, fuel, collision, Hell we don't even have *gravity* let alone aero dynamics.

 

GSF combat has a lot more in common with Asteroids then dogfighting in WWII...

 

Had they tried to balance ship classes as they have tried to balance ground AC classes and then gone from there to create a combat style the result would have been better IMO.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Devrius

[DamascusAdontise]

So much wrong with this post " The QQ is strong with this one" This is a testament to the idea of "never posting angry" because you make little to no sense with your objectivity tucked into your pants.

 

Here are a few of my points of contention:

 

Pro's:

 

dogfighting is not stronger than it was before, in fact its weaker. Across the board everyone had their mobility affected, I am less adept at dogfighting now than I was due in large part to doubling my second missile break (Br). Missiles being stronger also serves to make dogfighting more difficult.

 

I find that the average engagement range seems to be around 4-7k now (hardly the scouts bread and butter) - Now if I want to dogfight I am forced to LOS where I would have been turn battling before, this is fine but a chase is not a dogfight, its a chase. Since missiles are better and engines run out faster its become a "chase" rather than a "dogfight". with the loser being the one who runs out of mobility first . Scouts are still premium dogfighters though, nothing has changed in that respect. Everything moved linearly backward together (the main difference being the missile effectiveness post 2.7)

 

Con's:

 

Scoutwarrior ....On Bastion at least I see more: Strikes / Gunships / Bombers especially since the Imperium (T3 strike) is a beast and can heal. There are usually a couple tier 2 scout on each team, but I have not seen this scoutwarrior you speak of. Unless your server is VERY different from mine im betting this is in your imagination.

 

Definition: Immersion

 

Immersion into virtual reality is a perception of being physically present in a non-physical world. The perception is created by surrounding the user of the VR system in images, sound or other stimuli that provide an engrossing total environment. Wikipedia

 

I find GSF immersive, I am "sucked in" to the gameplay as much as any other game I have played. Not sure what you mean by immersive though (are you saying its not complex enough?)

 

//////

 

Sad to see another GSF pilot go the way of the dodo but I honestly cant feel bad for people who refuse to adapt. Its not nearly as bad as you make it out to be, if your having such issues with scouts bring a bomber? On my server I see a wide variety of ships and T2 scouts while powerful in the right hands are not the end all be all of effectiveness.

 

Your comparisons of real world jets to GSF is flawed as well. Have you ever heard of an ultralight used in modern combat? (not counting drones) the F-14 "tactical reconnaissance and air superiority" attributes are more akin to what the scout is to us IMO but all of these comparisons are flawed. Your not giving the scout enough credit, its not meant to be a piece of paper with a gun drawn on it. Its tactical reconnaissance / battle scout which means speed and firepower.

 

Your insinuation that the bomber / gunship balls were somehow more tactically advanced than what we have today is also amusing. Its more tactically advanced now, you cant just run in willy nilly and get away like you could before. The reduced engine power has forced everyone to either rely on eachother to absorb their weaknesses and amplify their strengths or face oblivion (less one man army going on). IMO bomber / GS balls were the ultimate lazy maneuver, and I am very happy to see them go.

 

Most of this is just trollbait so I guess I will restrain myself from spending all day replying to each one of your fallacies, most of them are not worth a response. Want to know why scouts give people fits? Its because their "skill ceiling" is the highest in the game. They have enough speed and maneuverability to outfly other ships, but its hard to do and not everyone can. In the right hands though they are devastating. BLC may need a look, but even if they removed them completely from the game guess what: "You will still die to scouts" because when flown well they are dangerous with any weapon.

 

BTW this game has always favored loadout, not over tactics or skill. But you cannot deny that there are premium loadouts and garbage loadouts for every ship. I would say though that this game has one of the highest "skill" curves I have ever seen. IMO it goes something like Skill > Loadout > Tactics. BTW can someone please send me this tinfoil BLC that 2 shots everything in the game, I need one of those .

 

(For you GS pilots you know it aint two shot, your sitting there for a FULL charge not moving with a scout barreling down at you and your upset that you died? Move, switch to BLC do something besides sit there and take it. Strikes can truly take a beating, as a can bombers, my experiences it seems are entirely different from yours,

 

My advice take a deep breath, find some friends and que some matches with an open mind. Your mad because you cant do the same thing you always did before, meanwhile I see people every day making my life hell in ships other than a scout. Also never post mad, comes out with as many holes in it as a block of swiss,

[Zoom_VI]

I think this is where they went wrong, they tried to capture the feel of dogfighting in the WWII era.

 

I play War Thunder, if I'm about to over shoot an enemy I have to go into a a "high yoyo" to conserve energy (read speed and altitude) to place myself behind him and light him up.

 

Yes well I didn't say it was perfect but it should be the goal, I would love to see a GSF where maneuvre's such as yours have value.

Note that your "high yoyo" is actually a RL barrel roll, ironic that GSF's barrel does the opposite of what it does in RL. Although stopping is GSF is not optimal at all and I would recommend you drop that habbit.

 

 

 

In GSF, we don't have: taking off, landing, g-force (turning so hard your wing rips off or the pilot faints), maneuverability/speed diminished by damage (wing, engine and so on) altitude, fuel, collision, Hell we don't even have *gravity* let alone aero dynamics.

Most of these don't really apply tho. Landing and take off are not really necessary for gameplay. g-force is negated by something called a inertial compensator if I recall right. Gravity, altitude, and Aerodynamics don't apply because space. Fuel is immaterial as I do not know of any canon reference to fuel in subspace flight, the only times it ever comes up is in reference to hyperspace travel, so it can be assumed that your starfighters have relatively infinite power.

 

Ofc in real free-fall vacuum combat you would never have anything resembling dogfighting, but that's why Star Wars is science fantasy rather than science fiction.

 

My point was GSF I think would do better going for the WW2 dogfighting theme, rather than what its doing now where it seems to be trending towards what I would call a "war of abilities" or in other words combat based on what abilities and stats your class has rather than your ability to utilize aerial tactics and maneuvers.

[General_Brass]

 

Very good post, detailing the history of preferred configurations.

 

While your post is very impressive in it's recounting of the evolution of the game, I think you have overlooked what has been ever more driving the those trends. The ever growing domination of the game by guilds. Much of the the FOTM configuration you describe as dominant, can be attributed to organized groups taking them up and using them

[Nemarus]

While your post is very impressive in it's recounting of the evolution of the game, I think you have overlooked what has been ever more driving the those trends. The ever growing domination of the game by guilds. Much of the the FOTM configuration you describe as dominant, can be attributed to organized groups taking them up and using them

 

Somewhat, yes. But it's not always guild. For example on The Ebon Hawk, I've been using hte Seismic / Interdiction Minelayer (which I now admit is broken) for several months, and I explained the build to my guild, but none of them ended up using it.

 

But then I made one post hinting at it on these forums, and the next day it had spread through wildfire throughout several guilds on the Republic side because of the [Gsf] channel (which I also created and evagelized -_-)

[Altheran]

While your post is very impressive in it's recounting of the evolution of the game, I think you have overlooked what has been ever more driving the those trends. The ever growing domination of the game by guilds. Much of the the FOTM configuration you describe as dominant, can be attributed to organized groups taking them up and using them

 

IMO the first error they have done was to allow groups.

GSF isn't the ground game, and any kind of coordination becomes really, really, powerful.

Especially because the UI doesn't emphasize group play, as there's litterally no group info available, and gameplay unallow typing, hence actual communication. So, when paired with groups, it is actually so unfriendly to be a solo-player that pairing groups and solo players should never have been allowed. (unlike the ground game which gives enough information/communication to permit solo players to build a spontaneous team effort)

 

Result : on my server, Darth Nihilus (FR), GSF is definitetly dead on evenings... which is supposed to be the peak time.

Why ? Because there's this 8-man group abusing area-wiping Bombers (4-5 per Domination) and find nothing more funny than just focus (it's almost griefing) the few "names" that are still playing at these hours... meaning almost exclusively me, as I'm the only veteran dumb enough to still play every evening. I'm almost exclusively paired with beginners.

 

It used to have various good solo-players on both side, and we even had a few match with perfect matchmaking, full veteran vs guild group, and the guild lost... heavily. But slowly, people got tired of being one-shotted by coordinated Gunships in other matches, it was before the Bombers came... Then they came, and matches suddenly ran empty of opposition as they guessed Bombers were really overly powerful and started stacking them in unholy numbers.

 

Sometimes there's one or two other veterans, who forces themselves to play because they hadn't their daily done, but otherwise I'm really the last one on my faction who did not give up.

Well, I actually gave up today, and won't play at these hours anymore, like all others did.

 

There's absolutely nothing fun in being obliterated, having "a good match" if my K/A/D ratio is 2/1/6, while being able to do a 17/5/0 on a stock strike if paired with people unaware of my alt's name...

Worse part is that when I face some of "them" during the afternoon, without their group, then most of the time I obliterate them... Even the cheap ultra-deadly Bombers... Most of them are actually very bad/average pilots. And losing to "them" just because they're paired, really upset me.

 

Even if BioWare were to unallow groups in GSF now, the damage done to servers who had such groups is now irreversible... Everybody knows that even if there were to only have solo queues, queuing will make us face these guys, who will still be on vocal and abusing every imbalance possible.

 

But then I made one post hinting at it on these forums, and the next day it had spread through wildfire throughout several guilds on the Republic side because of the [Gsf] channel (which I also created and evagelized -_-)

Then you're the source of evil.

 

*Prepares a fork and a torch*

[Sidenti]

Are you seriously kidding me? You decided that because some random person in BW decided to call the interceptor class a "Scout" that therefore said class should not be viable in PvP and you seem to think all their functionality should be handed off to strikes?!

 

We are fortunate people like you are not a developer. Like really, game balance should never be based off of RL, because real life warcraft are specifically designed to create as much imbalance as possible.

 

You entire post reeks of a mediocre to bad strike pilot who is out of touch with the current meta, seriously your post might have been valid in maybe 2.5.

 

Look, I understand you might have taken that a bit personally given your signature. But from the looks of the design, it appears the Scout wasn't intended to be the assassin it's become. It looks like it was supposed to be a light, fast skirmisher that scouted (hm!) the battlefield - perhaps lethal in a swarm, but certainly not supposed to get 20+ kills on its own just by flying behind something really close and blasting away with BLCs.

 

I understand that might be fun for you. I get that. But nothing else hangs with a Scout if it's properly flown. Not even a bomber. (Now, if you're going to be dumb enough to fly right behind THAT? You deserve to eat mines. XD)

 

Bottom line?

 

Calm down, kid. It's just a game. Don't take criticism of your favorite ship class personally.

 

Or do. Whatever. It doesn't matter to me either way. -bp

 

(The mains are in the signature. If you ever feel the desire to hit TEH and show me just how bad of a strike pilot I am, you know how to find me!)

[Kuciwalker]

Are you seriously kidding me? You decided that because some random person in BW decided to call the interceptor class a "Scout" that therefore said class should not be viable in PvP and you seem to think all their functionality should be handed off to strikes?!

 

We are fortunate people like you are not a developer. Like really, game balance should never be based off of RL, because real life warcraft are specifically designed to create as much imbalance as possible.

 

You entire post reeks of a mediocre to bad strike pilot who is out of touch with the current meta, seriously your post might have been valid in maybe 2.5.

 

Developer intent regarding scouts isn't entirely clear, but strike fighters are clearly supposed to make people think "X-Wing" and most people think that X-Wings should naturally be the bread-and-butter of GSF, with other ships being more specialized. As it is, battle scouts occupy that position and this strikes people as wrong.

 

If the game had more of the stuff that strike fighters are good at doing or more hazards that hurt scouts more than strike fighters then people would probably be fine with battle scouts being superior dogfighters. Bombers come close to doing this, but strike fighters are outshined by other ships as bomber-counters so it doesn't quite work.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Kuciwalker

[Nemarus]

Developer intent regarding scouts isn't entirely clear, but strike fighters are clearly supposed to make people think "X-Wing" and most people think that X-Wings should naturally be the bread-and-butter of GSF, with other ships being more specialized. As it is, battle scouts occupy that position and this strikes people as wrong.

 

I think developer intent is pretty clear. It's meant to be an A-wing. The Flashfire even looks like one.

 

And canonically (and in "X-wing"), A-wings were faster and nimbler than X-wings, but more fragile. A-wings had concussion missiles (which in "X-wing" were better suited for dogfighting than the X-wing's proton torpedoes), and a pair of light laser cannons (which were less powerful than the X-wing's quads).

 

Really, all that doesn't quite match up are the primary weapon choices of the Flashfire and Sting. Bursts and Quads should probably not be on a Scout. I think BLC's are on a Scout because they were supposed to be a niche short range weapon. But BioWare did not anticipate how effective they'd be.

 

Also one could argue that an X-wing's quad cannons are really closer to Heavy Laser Cannons, which only Strikes get.

[Kuciwalker]

I think developer intent is pretty clear. It's meant to be an A-wing. The Flashfire even looks like one.

 

I meant in terms of gameplay role, not lore/feel.

 

And canonically (and in "X-wing"), A-wings were faster and nimbler than X-wings, but more fragile. A-wings had concussion missiles (which in "X-wing" were better suited for dogfighting than the X-wing's proton torpedoes), and a pair of light laser cannons (which were less powerful than the X-wing's quads).

 

Except in lore, partly because of the X-wing's cachet, A-wings weren't unambiguously better dogfighters.

[Zoom_VI]

Developer intent regarding scouts isn't entirely clear, but strike fighters are clearly supposed to make people think "X-Wing" and most people think that X-Wings should naturally be the bread-and-butter of GSF, with other ships being more specialized. As it is, battle scouts occupy that position and this strikes people as wrong.

I don't know where your getting scout being multirole from. I also disagree with the notion that strikes are supposed to be bread-and-butter, because ideally in a balanced game we should see even class distribution.

 

Also can someone start a petition to change the name of Scouts to "interceptors" so we can stop getting these people who think scouts are supposed to be these weak craft with no firepower that must wait on the "real" ships to do it for them.

 

hazards that hurt scouts more than strike fighters then people would probably be fine with battle scouts being superior dogfighters.

To be fair the description of a FF is textbook superiority fighters, and all these strike pilots need to get over themselves and realize that. The strike was designed as a multirole ship, the fact that the meta doesn't support such ships is a issue with the meta itself not battle scouts. Besides every patch seems to tone down the usefulness of scouts while making strikes a little bit better.

[Kuciwalker]

I don't know where your getting scout being multirole from. I also disagree with the notion that strikes are supposed to be bread-and-butter, because ideally in a balanced game we should see even class distribution.

 

1. Where did I say scouts are multirole???
   
2. Strikes = X-wings = people will THINK they should be bread-and-butter. And, really, I think aesthetically they ought to be the reasonable "default" ship, with scouts, gunships, and bombers being things you fly if you want to specialize in something. The problem is that scouts are the ships that "specialize" in dogfighting, and right now dogfighting is the only game in town.
   

 

To be fair the description of a FF is textbook superiority fighters, and all these strike pilots need to get over themselves and realize that. The strike was designed as a multirole ship, the fact that the meta doesn't support such ships is a issue with the meta itself not battle scouts. Besides every patch seems to tone down the usefulness of scouts while making strikes a little bit better.

 

That is what I've been saying - scouts being the best dogfighters would be OK, aesthetically, if dogfighting weren't 95% of the game (i.e. multirole was actually useful).

[Yndras]

Gunship stacking in Team deathmatch is still a problem.

 

But as Nem put it Phase one was definitely a high point. Its not too bad atm, but imo gunships stacking and bomber stacking is still a problem.

 

Bombers are incredibly hard to crack of a defended position, but I don't necessarily see that as a problem.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Yndras

[Yndras]

Somewhat, yes. But it's not always guild. For example on The Ebon Hawk, I've been using hte Seismic / Interdiction Minelayer (which I now admit is broken) for several months, and I explained the build to my guild, but none of them ended up using it.

 

But then I made one post hinting at it on these forums, and the next day it had spread through wildfire throughout several guilds on the Republic side because of the [Gsf] channel (which I also created and evagelized -_-)

 

Bad bad bad Nem. You should know better than to post op builds.

[Pilgrim_Grey]

Just going to chime in and say I'm bemused by the OP as well. Scouts are still doing okay, but they don't outclass everything else out there. It's actually a little easier to tag them with a missile in my strikes since 2.7, which is nice.

 

Bombers are still the issue they were before 2.7, and I see them a lot more in matches... they're the clear fotm build, at least on Shadowlands. I wouldn't call it a bomberfest, but they're more noticeable than scouts zipping around, and they can have a bigger effect, especially in objective maps.

 

Gunships are still doing fine from what I can see, too. I don't get all the gnashing of teeth. They can still zip around pretty well and they do all the damage they did before 2.7, just minus the extremely easy energy draining (that is still really strong at tier 5).

 

As for the rest of the cons in the OP, it's nothing new. I find GSF to be quite fun and immersive, no matter how arcadey it supposedly is. *shrugs* I do wish there was an easier way to introduce newbies to it. Especially with bomberfests, new players won't know what to do with those as much, and it shows when I'm paired with rookies (or facing them... so sad to see them charging like the White Brigade into a node covered in bombers, etc.).