MillionsKNives Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 SWG gamers opinions are not being taken into consideration with the development of those games. If you believe this you would probably be diagnosed with delusions of grandeur. Those games are being developed because that's the game the developer wanted to make. Bingo, he's got it all backwards. He thinks the games are being made to attract "SWG players", with "SWG features", whereas in reality it's the "SWG players" being attracted to a game that happens to be what "they" want, with features that "they"'re looking for. No one cares whether or not "SWG players" like it, they care if players (of whatever niche) like it. "SWG players" may be a subset of whatever group the developers are looking to appeal to, but to say that these are games created specifically to pull "SWG features" for the purpose of attracting "SWG players" is ludicrous, and anyone who puts themselves and their little band of displaced game veterans in such high regard needs to get their head examined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaste Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Endless people loved it? Endless? Really? If endless people loved it, it would probably still be here. How many SWG gamers were left at the end? A post above says about 25,000, is that right? Assuming 100% of those are playing SWTOR now and all of them leave whenever SOE releases their non-Star Wars game, that's an unfortunate hit but an easily survivable one. Are 100% of those 25k people playing this game? Probably not. Will however many are playing this game leave for a game that isn't Star Wars? Probably not. Where do you get Space Sims? Aren't you reading the release notes and roadmap? Do you not understand what the words "new flash points and operations" mean? All things considered, SWG *could* of continued on as a niche star wars game with the subscriptions it had. Due to licensing reasons with Lucas Arts, who refused to extend said rights to SoE, the game was forced to shut down a mere 2 (maybe 3 /shrug, cant remember) weeks before the launch of TOR. Wide speculation on the timing of the shut down (coupled with Lucas Art's blatant lie of supporting both SWG and TOR at the last SoE fanfest I personally attended) left many of the SWG players with a bad taste in their mouth for TOR before it even started. These new games like The Repopulation and the unnamed Sony game are not targeting the battered and bruised final remnants of SWG players (of which you really had to be a Star Wars fan to find enjoyment in) They're targeting the quiet player base that loves sandbox games, and there are tons of those scattered across the theme park MMOs as we speak. I've been on several games and found tons of people just waiting for that kind of game. TOR, Aion, WoW, GW, FF etc. The ones who prefer to make their own fun and adventure as opposed to a theme park game like TOR and most the other MMOS; they're all watching these new games very carefully, because if you love that open ended game play, a theme park game that hands everything to you can't even hold a candle to the feeling a sandbox game will give you. Least that's my view. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 “SWG PLAYERS – OUR NEXT GAME (not announced yet) IS DEDICATED TO YOU. Once we launch it… you can come home now.” - SOE head John Smedley It will get him at best 50% of 25,000 players. With the SOE split revenue model you mentioned, what's that equate to? about $450,000 a year? That might pay for a couple servers and 2 coders. Whee! I am intrigued by The Repopulation's crafting system description though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 All things considered, SWG *could* of continued on as a niche star wars game with the subscriptions it had. Due to licensing reasons with Lucas Arts, who refused to extend said rights to SoE, the game was forced to shut down a mere 2 (maybe 3 /shrug, cant remember) weeks before the launch of TOR. Wide speculation on the timing of the shut down (coupled with Lucas Art's blatant lie of supporting both SWG and TOR at the last SoE fanfest I personally attended) left many of the SWG players with a bad taste in their mouth for TOR before it even started. These new games like The Repopulation and the unnamed Sony game are not targeting the battered and bruised final remnants of SWG players (of which you really had to be a Star Wars fan to find enjoyment in) They're targeting the quiet player base that loves sandbox games, and there are tons of those scattered across the theme park MMOs as we speak. I've been on several games and found tons of people just waiting for that kind of game. TOR, Aion, WoW, GW, FF etc. The ones who prefer to make their own fun and adventure as opposed to a theme park game like TOR and most the other MMOS; they're all watching these new games very carefully, because if you love that open ended game play, a theme park game that hands everything to you can't even hold a candle to the feeling a sandbox game will give you. Least that's my view. /shrug How many sandbox games have the number of subscribers or half the revenue of TOR? I'm not saying sandbox is a bad model. I'm saying it's probably not a very profitable one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 “SWG PLAYERS – OUR NEXT GAME (not announced yet) IS DEDICATED TO YOU. Once we launch it… you can come home now.” - SOE head John Smedley, 2014 Yes, SOE chose to make it, you think it's because of you wanting it or because they wanted to make it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenPalm Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) It will get him at best 50% of 25,000 players. With the SOE split revenue model you mentioned, what's that equate to? about $450,000 a year? That might pay for a couple servers and 2 coders. Whee! I am intrigued by The Repopulation's crafting system description though. SWG launched in 2003, and had lots of subscribers all the way until 2009. The 250,000 number was what happened in the last 3 years, after years of wars under the Bush administration before Obama wasted our resources even more. That's where that number comes from, after 7 years of the increasing war budget. SOE and The Repopulation are targeting the subscribers from all time (not just the last 3 years) and they are using SWG as their battle call, because they think it will work, hoping that somehow folks have more money. But that's a whole other discussion. I suppose the SWG haters on this thread know something the corporates and developers don't. Edited March 27, 2014 by HiddenPalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) “SWG PLAYERS – OUR NEXT GAME (not announced yet) IS DEDICATED TO YOU. Once we launch it… you can come home now.” - SOE head John Smedley, 2014 He was probably drunk and maudlin when he composed that. Edited March 27, 2014 by Joesixxpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 SWG launched in 2003, and had lots of subscribers all the way until 2009. The 250,000 number was what happened in the last 3 years, after years of wars under the Bush administration before Obama wasted our resources even more. That's where that number comes from, after 7 years of the increasing war budget. SOE and The Repopulation are targeting the subscribers from all time (not just the last 3 years) and they are using SWG as their battle call, because they think it will work, hoping that somehow folks have more money. But that's a whole other discussion. I suppose the SWG haters on this thread know something the corporates and developers don't. We're not haters, just realists. You are buying into what's called marketing. I'm glad they are making these games, some look interesting. But I have no delusions that they are being made because of a few disgruntled SWG players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenPalm Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Yes, SOE chose to make it, you think it's because of you wanting it or because they wanted to make it? It's a little of both. Most importantly its an attack at SWTOR. I believe they believe the lack of SWG features in SWTOR was the weak point to attack. But Bioware is responding appropriately, with GSF/Housing/HousingCrafting and I hope a Cantina uplift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) “SWG PLAYERS – OUR NEXT GAME (not announced yet) IS DEDICATED TO YOU. Once we launch it… you can come home now.” - SOE head John Smedley, 2014 Has no one had the heart to tell you that this game is looking to be pretty far from sci-fi.? On the broader SWG vs SWTOR as it stands point: there were some things that SWG did that were pretty impressive, their crafting and housing in particular, but that doesn't mean they'd all be a good fit in SWTOR. SWTOR should be focusing on looking at ideas out there (whether from SWG, WoW, CoH... wherever) and coming up with new ideas of their own, to see what will work in the general framework for SWTOR. They shouldn't be trying to shift that core themepark heart of the game, especially not in favor of trying to make SWG 2. Edited March 27, 2014 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 It's a little of both. Most importantly its an attack at SWTOR. I believe they believe the lack of SWG features in SWTOR was the weak point to attack. But Bioware is responding appropriately, with GSF/Housing/HousingCrafting and I hope a Cantina uplift. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaste Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 How many sandbox games have the number of subscribers or half the revenue of TOR? I'm not saying sandbox is a bad model. I'm saying it's probably not a very profitable one. TBH, in response I'd ask how many true sand box MMOs are out there period, besides to an extent eve. xD It's been a "niche market" since the mid 2000's, which is why major game companies haven't made them. If the same thing with a different skin works why try something else. That said, you've got a decent amount of new interest in such models as well as the ones who already love those style games, and they're mindlessly bored with a stagnant MMO selection. The table's primed and set for a resurgence, which is why companies like Above and Beyond and the Black Death of MMO companies SoE are each working on one. They don't need to pull in the numbers that TOR or WoW or whatever other game targeted to, for lack of better wording, the CoD-esque player mindset. They just need to pull enough income in to satisfy that niche and make it profitable to continue, and I'm pretty sure they'll meet and far exceed that magic number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 TBH, in response I'd ask how many true sand box MMOs are out there period, besides to an extent eve. xD It's been a "niche market" since the mid 2000's, which is why major game companies haven't made them. If the same thing with a different skin works why try something else. That said, you've got a decent amount of new interest in such models as well as the ones who already love those style games, and they're mindlessly bored with a stagnant MMO selection. The table's primed and set for a resurgence, which is why companies like Above and Beyond and the Black Death of MMO companies SoE are each working on one. They don't need to pull in the numbers that TOR or WoW or whatever other game targeted to, for lack of better wording, the CoD-esque player mindset. They just need to pull enough income in to satisfy that niche and make it profitable to continue, and I'm pretty sure they'll meet and far exceed that magic number. The only two that I'm aware of are EVE and SWG, and only one of those still exists. If it were a sustainable business model, you'd think more would be out there. Maybe SOE is on to something. Maybe they'll do it right and have a smashing success. Given SOE's history, I think the former is is possible but the latter highly improbable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) “SWG PLAYERS – OUR NEXT GAME (not announced yet) IS DEDICATED TO YOU. Once we launch it… you can come home now.” - SOE head John Smedley, 2014 My God son...you actually believe John Smedley...lemme let you in on a little secret...his job is to sell boxes and create hype. Get excited about his next MMO when he starts beta of it...until then, be skeptical. Looks like a zombie game tbh. Edited March 27, 2014 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 My God son...you actually believe John Smedley...lemme let you in on a little secret...his job is to sell boxes and create hype. Get excited about his next MMO when he starts beta of it...until then, be skeptical. Looks like a zombie game tbh. Or we'll get to see what it's like to be Quakers or maybe the Amish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Or we'll get to see what it's like to be Quakers or maybe the Amish. OMG...Amish Mafia the MMO?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 OMG...Amish Mafia the MMO?! Yup, I think you nailed it yesterday, we both watch too much TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 OMG...Amish Mafia the MMO?! It's all fun & games until someone invents an olfactory peripheral for PC's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 It's all fun & games until someone invents an olfactory peripheral for PC's... don't be tempting fate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Yup, I think you nailed it yesterday, we both watch too much TV Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Link Great, now I'm hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacobellkrystal Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Next year, we'll have... And so on. If you make it to next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edzew Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 The only two that I'm aware of are EVE and SWG, and only one of those still exists. If it were a sustainable business model, you'd think more would be out there. Maybe SOE is on to something. Maybe they'll do it right and have a smashing success. Given SOE's history, I think the former is is possible but the latter highly improbable. the reason SWG failed was because of the NGE which changed the game completly... even though ESO is using the same combat and the same over the shoulder view. and the NGE was because good ole GL wanted it more "Star Warsy" but because of that the game failed. we will never know what could have been if the NGE had never hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edzew Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Endless people loved it? Endless? Really? If endless people loved it, it would probably still be here. How many SWG gamers were left at the end? A post above says about 25,000, is that right? Assuming 100% of those are playing SWTOR now and all of them leave whenever SOE releases their non-Star Wars game, that's an unfortunate hit but an easily survivable one. Are 100% of those 25k people playing this game? Probably not. Will however many are playing this game leave for a game that isn't Star Wars? Probably not. Where do you get Space Sims? Aren't you reading the release notes and roadmap? Do you not understand what the words "new flash points and operations" mean? there could have been a billion players in SWG before the NGE and it would not have mattered, the NGE is what killed SWG. as soon as it came out the numbers dropped and continued to drop until your number was prooly its last population count. it didn't mater how many people left because of the NGE they were not going to put it back to the way it was because GL wanted it that way. so that is why its no longer here. and before the NGE there was millions of players, cant remember the exact number but it was over one million. all servers was populated, well populated. pre NGE people all over the place on all the planets, post NGE i played for 4 hours and never ran into another player.. on any of the planets i went to. Star Wars is not enough to keep players, the game must be good to keep players, having Star Wars be a part of it is just a bonus. and you shouldn't ask about the SWG players that was left at the end, you should ask how many SWG players are there. the end of SWG:NGE has nothing to do with it. its the total people ever played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faolon Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I found Wildstar so boring. The combat was fun at first, but once you pumped enough hours into the game, it was just the same crap over and over. It's as generic an MMO as you can get, now-a-days. If you've played any MMO in the last few years, that game would not have anything to offer you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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