BDutch Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Permanent choices are more fun? What rubbish. If you don't want to ever change your spec, then how does someone elses ability to do so affect you? Fun aside, it's silly to permanently commit points to an ability that you might not even understand until you've tried it out. Not every ability is simple math and obvious changes. Some things just have vague descriptions that you won't understand fully until you try them out. On top of that, this is an MMO. Every MMO tweaks/changes things like this on a regular basis. Your commitment isn't only to a choice you've made, it's to future choices that developers will make. It's hard to avoid commenting on the kind of people that would impose this sort of rule on other players if they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniiankov Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Bioware had respec system in Mass Effect 2. So there for the fun of permanent choices in a single player game. Dual Spec/convenient cheap respec is a must. And there is the additional thing of having the gear for the second spec which will be much more effective gold sync. The permanent advanced class is nice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahl-Vinn Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 This is terrible. I have to go back to healing, and back to gunnery (dps) in order to heal some heroics and flashpoints. But when questing as a healer, ITS MISERABLY SLOW. Make respecs like 10k credits max. I don't understand why you feel the need to charge outrageous sums of credits for a respec. I mean if you aren't going to have some form of dual spec at launch, make sure that respccing doesn't cost me my genitals. Why do you keep jumping ship to different specs? This isn't how it was meant to be. They need to give players 3 times to respec their talent trees, then cut them off. If you want a healer, a DPS, and a tank, just roll three toons. You shouldn't be able to willy-nilly change to either of these as you please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Just baffling that they did this given that healing in PvE is not a viable leveling spec, yet in warfronts / pvp it's always healers in short supply not sure why you think it is not viable. I am a healer and except for FP and on occasion a heroic i always solo. I just either use my tank companion or i tank and keep healign myself while my dps companion takes them down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Permanent choices are more fun? What rubbish. If you don't want to ever change your spec, then how does someone elses ability to do so affect you? Fun aside, it's silly to permanently commit points to an ability that you might not even understand until you've tried it out. Not every ability is simple math and obvious changes. Some things just have vague descriptions that you won't understand fully until you try them out. On top of that, this is an MMO. Every MMO tweaks/changes things like this on a regular basis. Your commitment isn't only to a choice you've made, it's to future choices that developers will make. It's hard to avoid commenting on the kind of people that would impose this sort of rule on other players if they could. i will explain how it effects others. If say your DPS and someoen else is healer and all you do is switch back and forth at will between healer and dps that effects the other healer from getting a group. Thus forcing him/her to do the same thing. Unlike most games you are not forced into a roll the minute you create a toon. Here you have 10 lvls to figure a general roll to concentrate on. Then you are given 3 areas inside that roll to branch out and you can switch those branches. What you can not do ( well you can but it is expansive) is switch them every 5 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniiankov Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 i will explain how it effects others. If say your DPS and someoen else is healer and all you do is switch back and forth at will between healer and dps that effects the other healer from getting a group. Thus forcing him/her to do the same thing. Unlike most games you are not forced into a roll the minute you create a toon. Here you have 10 lvls to figure a general roll to concentrate on. Then you are given 3 areas inside that roll to branch out and you can switch those branches. What you can not do ( well you can but it is expansive) is switch them every 5 minutes Yes, my bounty hunter got so much experience with the healing and tanking capabilities of the class for the first 10 levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I have had 0 problems soloing as a full healing spec sorcerer and have needless to say been able to heal all flash points and heroics up to Alderaan so far. I think a lot of it has to do with Khem Val. ::Geohin:: what i have found is faster is with me tanking and healing myself and having revel dps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartan Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Yea this is unbearable at mid-level. I'm only 34 with 60k credits and I don't want to respec out of tank because the costs are rising way too fast. RIFT had it right when it was just 50 gold (equivalent of about 500 credits). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Companions don't amount to anything in a PvP and or Operations spec. I guess if you spec pure PvE, stay out of PvP and if you spec pure PvP stay out of Operations? i disagree. I am speced pure healing and i go into pvp and usually pick up 1-2 mvp votes a fight. Usually more if we win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Your pet can compensate for your spec, i dont know waht the first pet is for the smuggler, but a lto fo the reason for bounty hunters having no problems leveling as healer is because they get mako first, then blizz, healer then tank it makes a difference. But yeah the game should have dual spec, as respecs are expensive and most of the time people only have 2 specs. smugglers get a range tank first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notafanboy Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I really don't want this feature. All classes are equally viable to level with. If you want to be a healer, level a healer. Nobody forces you to respec to heal one raid then dps a flashpoint. You choose to do that. It comes at a cost. And that's why there are NO healers for groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 This is a foregone conclusion that there will be dual spec, otherwise they would have designed trees with talents that serve two roles and likely would be over powered. This system likely has decay and or a cap on the cost, it's tough to tell but for instance vanilla wow had 50 gold respecs max cost. With the way credits are, I think it's roughly that 1000 credits equals 1 gold in that game, just with far more ways to "easily" acquire gold. Who is surprised when that is near the ratio (minus 1 power)of copper to gold in WoW though totally irrelevant now. That implies inflation but its a little too early to tell, meaning that 50-100k respec which seems insane now in 2 months becomes just a minor hindrance the way it should In a dual spec system. they actually tried a few things in beta. Such as having the costs reset to zero each week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notafanboy Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I don't get what's so bad about dual spec anyway. Honestly what are the arguments against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 you all do know that the devs have stated they are looking at a way to have a dual spec system for pve and pvp. Along the lines of when you enter the WZ you would switch over to your pvp spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I don't get what's so bad about dual spec anyway. Honestly what are the arguments against it? there are a couple. 1) you are in a group as a healer while the dps rolls need on your healing gear because his off role is healer 2) Your a healer but do not get groups because a dps just switchs to healing for a run and back again 3) a person who sticks with one roll tends to be better at it than one who constantly switchs rolls I am not saying these are equally valid or even valid just that they are some of the arguments By the way outside of RIft what game lets you just switch rolls back and forth. WoW does not. In wow there is a fee plus you are limited to your rolls based on your class ie i can pay a fee and switch from healing to dps priest but i do not have the option of tank as a priest. nor does a warrior have the option of being a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notafanboy Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 there are a couple. 1) you are in a group as a healer while the dps rolls need on your healing gear because his off role is healer 2) Your a healer but do not get groups because a dps just switchs to healing for a run and back again 3) a person who sticks with one roll tends to be better at it than one who constantly switchs rolls I am not saying these are equally valid or even valid just that they are some of the arguments By the way outside of RIft what game lets you just switch rolls back and forth. WoW does not. In wow there is a fee plus you are limited to your rolls based on your class ie i can pay a fee and switch from healing to dps priest but i do not have the option of tank as a priest. nor does a warrior have the option of being a healer. 1) The game is set now that you can only roll need on gear you can use for your spec. Implement Dual Spec and allow people to only roll need on gear for the spec they're in. Maybe make an off-spec button that goes higher than greed. 2) To bad? If so many dps are just switch to heals that no other healers can find a group, then just switch to dps. Also that argument is the same thing that's going on now only in that case there is to much of a role, rather than to little, at least with a dual spec groups can be found easier. 3) This game honestly isn't that hard at all. And your third argument can be used to not allow people to reroll classes, in other word it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taaketa Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 To all the people moaning about healing being the slowest tier to level. I am playing smuggler and Corso riggs and using his guard stance I am levelling just as fast as anyone in my guild. Also last night I was playing all the heroics on tattooine and could I get a tank or DPS for my group. That's right group of healers all 4 blazed through the heroic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otherlander Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 there are a couple. 1) you are in a group as a healer while the dps rolls need on your healing gear because his off role is healer 2) Your a healer but do not get groups because a dps just switchs to healing for a run and back again 3) a person who sticks with one roll tends to be better at it than one who constantly switchs rolls I am not saying these are equally valid or even valid just that they are some of the arguments By the way outside of RIft what game lets you just switch rolls back and forth. WoW does not. In wow there is a fee plus you are limited to your rolls based on your class ie i can pay a fee and switch from healing to dps priest but i do not have the option of tank as a priest. nor does a warrior have the option of being a healer. 1. For my class, both dps and healing would want very similar gear. As a healer, should I just not join a group that has a DPS sorc? No real difference. 2. Well if I'm a healer and I can't find a group, but DPS sorcerors are finding groups easily, I can always change to my DPS spec! Not that people are going to queue as healers or tanks, most people don't want the responsibility. 3. So what? People who are bad are bad, no matter what role they are trying to fill. Good players are going to be able to perform decently well in their offspecs. Yeah, but in WoW there are 2 classes that can tank, dps and heal. Their dual spec system has been in the game for a few years. And it's a one time cost per character. And it works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonerVampx Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 A) I like the idea of easier respecs for PVP. That should really be a separate consideration. B) PVE: This is a game where you make choices that have lasting consequences. You choose your companions and their liking of you. You choose your Advanced Class (never allow this to be changed, please). You choose Dark/Light/Neutral. You choose the outcome of various quests. I greatly welcome these lasting changes as part of the joy and fun of an MMO RPG game. The sort of fun that you just don't get when you can do every choice and get everything later on, or when there's one clearly better choice that you pick after researching the outcomes online. While respec/dualspec is very useful tool, there's a certain death to roles and characters when you allow wanton respecs. This may be intrinsic to the identity of SWTOR as an MMO RPG, and I'd hate to see a knee-jerk reaction so early in the game's life. The ability to do a few respecs is nice enough, and thank you for that. C) The devs should, at the very least, give the game 2 years or more of endgame content adoption and see how things stack up. Ideally, the community and players accommodate things like lack of tanks or lack of healers. Like, I don't know, maybe roll and live with one as your main... D) In that other MMO RPG, us healers really aren't viable to solo level. Well, we are, but it's a very slow grind. I love that SWTOR allows the use of companions. Give me a tank companion and suddenly heal-leveling is absolutely viable and fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdatik Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 And that's why there are NO healers for groups. This is just a flat out lie. Hyperbole wins you nothing but ridicule. <--- Healer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chton Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I don't get what's so bad about dual spec anyway. Honestly what are the arguments against it? If there are dual specs available thats exactly what each AC will get a choice of 2. No experimenting, no hybrids, make a DPS and a tank/healer. Content will be designed to require a fully specced healer everytime as it will be easy to acquire . If you play a AC that has healing tree you will be expected to be a healer or go respec to one. But people who only play the two extremes don't care. That's how it affects people who don't want easy respecs. I don't get how people can claim they want something that doesn't affect other players when if they put in some thought ( I know..) they would realize it impacts everyone. I'm already resigned to them giving in the whining of mass of WoW players who see that as the MMO. So for all the silly talk of experimenting we all know the experimenting will be done by a few and then it will be just cookie cutter versions. But whatever, the loud lazy folk will always ruin it for us as they have the numbers on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichLather Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 My respec went from 60k back to 900 credits and I was a happy man. Going from dps questing to healing a dungeon, then back to my questing specc was painful to say the least. WTB dual speccing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clocknane Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 This is terrible. I have to go back to healing, and back to gunnery (dps) in order to heal some heroics and flashpoints. But when questing as a healer, ITS MISERABLY SLOW. Make respecs like 10k credits max. I don't understand why you feel the need to charge outrageous sums of credits for a respec. I mean if you aren't going to have some form of dual spec at launch, make sure that respccing doesn't cost me my genitals. I am not sure what you are rambling about. I play a Combat Medic Commando and I take things out just fine. I certainly would not classify it as slow. Is it as fast as a pure dps class, of course not, but perhaps you should have read the skill talents before spending points so you would not of had to re-spec so many times?? Outta curiosity how many times have you re-specd? I would imagine with that price tag a lot. Do yourself a favor next time, read the skills in the trees, do research if you are not sure about them (I know the game is new but it is out there) an save yourself the creds. I am doing fine with my fully talented combat medic commando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halacs Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 ^ This. Dual spec is absolutely not needed, in fact it would prove to be detrimental to the design of the game. Bioware wants you to play alts, allowing you to spec two roles at any one time would significantly hamper that goal. Respec costs raise each time for a reason, logic is fun. So four alts of one class or two with high respec costs? No thanks. Gladly they are going to put dual spec in. As long as its within your AC I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shambhalian Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Jedi sage, Seer spec here and I got to say healing is a amazingly fun. By the time leveling as a healer (outside of heroics and flash points) becomes a drag you get earthquake/forcestorm. From there on its just: Bubble, mass pull everything, aoe, aoe, and loot. I can't say much about the other healing classes, but I would assume they have similar tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts