Option for World PVP - Discussion

[NSViper]

Been thinking of this a while, and comparing it to (what I consider) the daddy of PVP games, DAOC (Dark Age of Camelot for you heathens out there).

 

So, the main success of PVP in DAOC was the keeps and towers as capture points, and if enough of them were taken, access was granted to the relic keeps.

 

So, for SWTOR, how about this.

 

HOTH

 

There's plenty of speeder bases out there on each side, so my thought is:

- You can either go straight for the base to capture, obviously having to take out all the guards (normal/golds) to get inside and take out the speed base caption (high gold/diamond - hard to kill, 8-16 required), or take out the surrounding gun emplacements around the base to reduce the number of guards, but obviously taking out the gun emplacements takes longer and would alert enemy forces.

- capturing the speeder base would break the port lines for the enemy, so they couldn't port directly in there for retakes.

- capture enough of the speeder bases (4/5) drops the shields around the main base of the enemy. This then grants you access to take out the main base. Again lots of gold/higher NPC's to take out, and the chance of PVP players flying in to defend.

- get inside the main base, and the final challenge is to take out the boss (base captain/general/jedi/sith etc). Capturing this drops decent items worth the challenge.

 

During all this, killing enemy players grants (say) 100 PVP commendations, split between how many people killed the PVP'er. i.e. solo kill 1 on 1 grants 100 comms, if 4 people kill 1 person, then they each get 25.

 

Killing the speeder based captains grants 1000 comms split between how many players assisted.

Killing the main base captain drops decent gear.

 

If you capture and hold the main base, then the holding realm gets +5% bonus (or something similar) to PVP based activities, whether its enhanced HP, power, aim etc.

While trying to recapture your base, the holding team get -10% on comms drops, whilst the team trying to retake get +10% comms (i.e. holders only get 90 per person kill, retakers get 110 per person kill)

 

I know HOTH is a lower level planet part of the story line, but what do people reckon. Using the current game dynamics and rules, would this be "doable"? Could it be attempted as a one off event perhaps to check if its viable or not?

 

Thoughts and comments please people, and lets try and keep it on topic if possible.

Edited March 11, 2014 by NSViper
minor edit

[EpickFaill]

i like this ideas and maybe they could work out well

[ivanhedgehog]

i like this ideas and maybe they could work out well

 

except that it would break questing. which MIGHT be acceptable on pvp servers but not on pve servers. If you want open world pvp you need to be on a pvp server with others of the same desires.

[NSViper]

Yeh I know there would be a clash with people questing, but just wondered if it could be a "for one week only" type event, to test the mechanics...

 

If the mechanics worked, it could be moved elsewhere...

 

Just think, 1 week its Hoth.... next week it moves to Tatooine...then Nar Shaadaa (fancy chasing imperials through that rabbit warren? )

 

As I said its "an option", would like to hear other comments and recommendations, and maybe even some of the Dev's perhaps? we live in hope

[DOHboy]

we had world PVP it was called Ilum and it died..FAST.

 

they tried again with the GREE, it works ok but in general not everyone wants/likes open world PVP (me included) so unless you are on a PVP server, it tends to be an after thought.

 

That, and it tends to be a slide show if too many people are located in a single instance.

[NSViper]

we had world PVP it was called Ilum and it died..FAST.

Agreed, but then it was just an open zone with no real "objectives", so it gets dull....

 

they tried again with the GREE, it works ok but in general not everyone wants/likes open world PVP (me included) so unless you are on a PVP server, it tends to be an after thought.

Fair enough, not everyone likes PVP, but for those of us that do ...

 

That, and it tends to be a slide show if too many people are located in a single instance.

Not really sure about this, I can quite happily zip about fleet instance with 200 people on it and no lag, but then I do have a decent spec machine...

 

Ah, i remember the days of 600+ player zergs on DAOC, 100+ peeps defending Mjollnir against the rampaging Alb hoards - epic hour long fights that time, and crashing the zones on MIdgard/Excal when he hit about 800 in one zone, poor servers couldnt handle it then, and that was 8-10 years ago...

[ZionHalcyon]

except that it would break questing. which MIGHT be acceptable on pvp servers but not on pve servers. If you want open world pvp you need to be on a pvp server with others of the same desires.

 

I agree to this.

 

I think there should be PVP servers that are essentially lawless, to let those who just want to kill everyone go for it. Keep starter planets protected, and once players are on a planet where it is cross faction, everything is up for grabs

 

 

Just post a couple disclaimers of the lawlessness when someone goes to select a PvP server.

[DarthDymond]

If BW/EA were to invest the time/money to update the Hero Engine to where it could actually handle large-scale PVP, then I think a base-capturing open world PVP setup would be cool. My sense of things, however, was that any performance updates they're working on have been much more incremental and relatively minor, so I doubt we'll get to that point in the near future.

 

Small-scale PVP is likely to rule the day in SWTOR for the foreseeable future.

 

If they did add something like this, I would definitely say it should be a separate section of Hoth (a la Ilum's pre-Gree Western Shelf) so that it's easier for people to opt into or out of participating, rather than having it easily spoil unwilling participants' (especially lower-level ones') progression.

 

EDIT: Forgot to add: If this sort of thing is really interesting to you, OP, you might want to check out ESO's open world PVP. From what I saw on a few quick previews it allows players to take control of several Keeps and various support buildings (lumber mills, mines, etc) with control being wrested back and forth in some pretty epic-looking sieges.

 

How well it works once the game goes live will probably depend on how many players actually participate regularly, and how quickly the lion's share of them get bored of it, but it's got potential. Especially since I think I heard that "ownership" of each captured Keep and each support structure would belong to individual Guilds, which seems like a very cool way to integrate them.

 

Not planning on playing ESO myself, but this was one thing that definitely caught my eye.

Edited March 11, 2014 by DarthDymond

[Quraswren]

It's a neat idea but personally I think WPVP is and has been dying for some time now.

 

I just don't see gamers all that interested in it anymore. There are a few that still talk about it but rarely do you see WPVP happen all that much.

 

Maybe there is a way to design a WPVP encounter that cannot be gamed with win trading and such but over all, I think WPVP is dead. More people avoid it than take part in it.

[VanderII]

It could do a new area on Hoth like sector X on belsavis but huge and only for Ppen PvP activities with some pve quest.

[PifferPuff]

OP, your idea is intriguing, but has no real incentive behind it. Rather, I'd amend it as follows:

 

Don't bother with the set faction bases (speeder or otherwise): players need them to pick up and return quests, and get from place to place. Instead, set up 3 new outposts in the wilds of not only Hoth, but also Belsavis, Corellia, and - though I'd like to say Quesh, it's just not big enough. Maybe even Alderaan, but that might be too much.

 

The point of this OWPvP capture the base game is, for every captured outpost, the controlling faction's players receive a stacking buff (up to 3 stacks - one for every outpost) of 5% bonus EXP gain. So, if the republic controls all 3 outposts, all republic players receive 15% bonus EXP.

 

Now why these planets? Let's face it: leveling from 1-10 takes about an hour or two; 10-20 about 3 to 5; 20-30 about a good portion of a day or two. From 30 onwards, it takes an increasing amount of time to get to 50. These planets are both cross-faction and home to the latter-half-level players. So, EXP point gain is very valuable and attractive.

 

So, in this way, you can get all your quests done and ready to turn in. Then switch to your PvP toons (or our favorite max level toon), organize with our guilds or groups, and take those bases. Once captured, the base(s) cannot be retaken by the opposing faction for one hour, from the time of capture. This gives more than enough time to switch back, turn in your quests for the EXP bonus, and set out to do a few more within that hour.

 

Once the battling starts, a big white message flashes on the screen for all the players there that the republic forces / imperial forces have begun an assault on XYZ outpost. Giving all players on that planet an opportunity to respond. Like in the OP, it would be a very involved process, so as to imply that it would take time to capture. Some may not care about EXP gain bonuses or PvP, so they would just keep doing what they're doing; and others would, on the other hand, and involve themselves in the metagame of capture the base.

 

This can be implemented on both PvP and PvE based servers, and would not negatively impact the normal progression of leveling and questing. It just adds a new twist to it. As a negative, it implies that people would need to bring their max-level mains to participate (no lowbies allowed, in other words - since they would just be cannon fodder). However, as a plus, it would have a place on PvP servers for the lowbie gankers to get their OWPvP fix - but this assumption is based on individual tastes and preferences of OWPvP.

 

Anyways, just my two cents...

Edited March 11, 2014 by PifferPuff

[alphazoolou]

If you want OWPVP ESO is coming out in a month. never gonna happen with this game engine can't even Handel a 10vs. 10 battle with becoming a slideshow

[horrorfaneightys]

I think this idea sounds fun on a PVP server. I wouldn't want it on PVE servers, even for a week. I chose a PVE server specifically to avoid PVP. I don't think I'm the only one. But on a PVP sever I would expect open warfare and hostility, so these ideas make total sense.

[AGSThomas]

I dunno about this idea.. but I did have one. Its a copy from one of WoW's PvP systems. Make a zone (planet) have 5 or 7 capture points, which ever faction controls the majority of the capture points gets a faction wide, galaxy wide buff for 2 hours. If you make the buff powerful enough, players will go to that planet and make sure they have it. Edited March 11, 2014 by AGSThomas

[Xdancp]

Good idea, but pretty sure the engine can't handle it.

[LanceCorporalDan]

It's a neat idea but personally I think WPVP is and has been dying for some time now.

 

I just don't see gamers all that interested in it anymore. There are a few that still talk about it but rarely do you see WPVP happen all that much.

 

Maybe there is a way to design a WPVP encounter that cannot be gamed with win trading and such but over all, I think WPVP is dead. More people avoid it than take part in it.

 

It is very much alive on PvP servers. At least mine, battles nearly every night. I think if BW/EA were to give something to show for WPvP (objectives, buffs, gear, an endless list of possibilities are out there). The fact remains that as long as guilds organize WPvP events on their servers, gankers still cause friends on both sides to come defend their lowbies and result in larger fights, or people decide to push a base for their achievements or for fun... WPvP will remain alive. BW/EA has a chance to capitalize on an untapped aspect of the game, and different niche of player.

 

I for one grow tired of the same handful of wz's. Now I only do them for the gear and to group with friends, it would be nice to see some type of reward or incentives from all of the epic battles and memories we've had PvPing outside these few wz's.

 

Just my thoughts.

[TUXs]

Fantastic idea OP, but I don't think this game can support that type of PvP. Anything above 12v12 and the engine begins to crawl (sooner for some). Unless you have a way of limiting how many players participate, like a drop in/out type instance, this idea wouldn't be doomed to fail on the engine.

[Oneirophrenia]

I thought PVP servers already operates like this (minus the rewards)?

 

Regardless, any kind of suggestion for persistant open world PVP on PVE/RP servers is just a non-starter or DOA if you will. When I want to PVP, I do warzones or head to Oricon if I hear there's a big battle going on there. At other times such as when I'm leveling alts or datacron hunting, I am not willing to waste my time and be interrupted just for the sake of someone else's amusement.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Oneirophrenia

[Lugosi]

If you want open world pvp you need to be on a pvp server with others of the same desires.

 

This is BS. Some of us on PvE servers enjoy a little PvP as well. I can't stand warzones, but RvR lakes, some of us crave this.

[ivanhedgehog]

It could do a new area on Hoth like sector X on belsavis but huge and only for Ppen PvP activities with some pve quest.

 

keep all pve out of it. peroid. the devs keep trying to shove pve'ers into pvp which gets them slaughtered by people in pvp gear. which is probably the worst possible way to get them to enjoy it and keep coming back.

[ivanhedgehog]

This is BS. Some of us on PvE servers enjoy a little PvP as well. I can't stand warzones, but RvR lakes, some of us crave this.

 

then why are you on a pve server? what you want is provided on pvp servers. is it the competition is to tough?

[Lugosi]

then why are you on a pve server? what you want is provided on pvp servers. is it the competition is to tough?

 

Nice try, I figured I get a stupid mouth breather response like this. Your post is an excellent example of why I don't play on PvP servers. Besides, the PvP servers are generally a bunch whiny little brats that want the game catered to them and every class nerf'd but their own because >80% can't properly play their class if they have to use more than 3 skills.

 

The major reason I chose a PvE server is because I started playing this game with a larger group of people. We were more concerned with end game raiding and PvE content in this game than PvP (pretty big Star Wars fans). If you think there aren't any good PvP players on PvE servers you clearly have no clue. As I stated, I am not really into Warzones (I'm generally burnt out in playing PvP for last few years anyway, guess I'm getting old), and I am one of the few in my guild that doesn't PvP much in this game. They don't take it very seriously either, they save that for LoL.

 

I enjoy world PvP, not Warzones (I used to play a lot of the first GW arenas, those are the only ones I've enjoyed), and just because a server is labelled PvP doesn't mean there is any good world PvP, or skilled players. So really, PvP servers don't offer what I want I want in this game.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Lugosi

[TUXs]

Nice try, I figured I get a stupid mouth breather response like this. Your post is an excellent example of why I don't play on PvP servers. Besides, the PvP servers are generally a bunch whiny little brats that want the game catered to them and every class nerf'd but there own because >80% can't properly play their class if they have to use more than 3 skills.

 

LOL! The irony is too much for me to ignore when YOU are the one being belligerent and calling people names.

[Lugosi]

LOL! The irony is too much for me to ignore when YOU are the one being belligerent and calling people names.

 

Oh come on TUXs, their thinly veiled attempt to insult me didn't help. I'll admit the mouth breather response was over the top, and was directed more towards the poster than I had wanted, and not the group of people that deserve the title. He just happened to be the first person with the stupid cliche'd response of " you're scared to play on a PvP server". I am not going to apologize for how I feel about a good portion of PvP'rs especially when their attitudes prove my point. Yes, I was insulting a good portion the PvP community. Do I think they are all like that? Of course not.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Lugosi

[TUXs]

Oh come on TUXs, their thinly veiled attempt to insult me didn't help. I'll admit the mouth breather response was over the top, and was directed more towards the poster than I had wanted, and not the group of people that deserve the title. He just happened to be the first person with the stupid cliche'd response of " you're scared to play on a PvP server". I am not going to apologize for how I feel about a good portion of PvP'rs especially when their attitudes prove my point. Yes, I was insulting a good portion the PvP community. Do I think they are all like that? Of course not.

 

Reading your earlier reply, I can see why it offended you....and you were right to be offended now that I see it all in context. I think your reply was justified given the ignorance of the comment directed at you.

 

I happen to agree fully with you...people roll on PvE servers because they enjoy PvE more, not because they're scared of PvP or have no interest in PvP.

 

edit: I rolled on a PvP server and I happen to enjoy PvE too...it's no different. I really enjoy PvP, but in this game, there's no way I can see any player being just PvP or just PvE...it'd drive me nuts!

Edited March 12, 2014 by TUXs