3 Questions for PT. Lets DO IT!

[Melon_Lord]

The lack of improvements to Advanced Prototype dps is annoying.

 

I knew they would forget retractable Blade

[Sosajoshua]

I knew they would forget retractable Blade

 

you troll

[Brunner_Venda]

I knew they would forget retractable Blade

 

Pretty much this. Back to pre-2.0 where there was no reason to play AP .

[TACeMossie]

Pretty much this. Back to pre-2.0 where there was no reason to play AP .

 

Hey... 40% of the dread operations fights in nightmare mode give AP the advantage, due to AoE damage capabilities and AoE damage reduction capabilities

Edited May 6, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Brunner_Venda]

Hey... 40% of the dread operations fights in nightmare mode give AP the advantage, due to AoE damage capabilities and AoE damage reduction capabilities

 

And 60% (a majority of them) don't. Besides I'm talking PVP.

[Sosajoshua]

And 60% (a majority of them) don't. Besides I'm talking PVP.

 

and in both aspects AP is left out of changes when it could use some dmg boosts

[AAntan]

Hey... 40% of the dread operations fights in nightmare mode give AP the advantage, due to AoE damage capabilities and AoE damage reduction capabilities

 

So 30% aoe reduction on fights that almost no aoe damage is happening (if you dont believe me, read the feedback from a lot of people that claim damage is so low that can be solo healed).

 

And yes, our aoe damage is so good, that you can only see 3 PT/VGs as top 50 DPS (Torparse Statistics) on 16m Draxus and Grob'thok and only 1 PT on 8m Draxus.

Edited May 6, 2014 by AAntan

[Kooziejr]

Pyro will be nerfed lol the 35% is insane. So dont compare to that. Those changes will never go live.

[AAntan]

Pyro will be nerfed lol the 35% is insane. So dont compare to that. Those changes will never go live.

 

Thats what I said on other thread, people are calling fire already, the thing is not even on live!... it's sure that it will get nerfed or maybe removed before it gets live.

[Brunner_Venda]

Pyro will be nerfed lol the 35% is insane. So dont compare to that. Those changes will never go live.

 

It probably will go live. The game is so broken and so many classes have been getting OP candy since 2.6... I just don't give a **** anymore. I'm too busy playing ESO to care.

 

Besides. Why not overpower us? Sins got yet another stun last patch. At least on PTS we can dot up a sin before we're stun locked to death. Jugg ED is still way better than kolto ever will be. Madness sin dots won't be cleans able by your team healer. Bioware is completely out of their gourds stupid at this point.

 

Tldr; biofail is terrible at their jobs, this will go through.

[Sosajoshua]

It probably will go live. The game is so broken and so many classes have been getting OP candy since 2.6... I just don't give a **** anymore. I'm too busy playing ESO to care.

 

Besides. Why not overpower us? Sins got yet another stun last patch. At least on PTS we can dot up a sin before we're stun locked to death. Jugg ED is still way better than kolto ever will be. Madness sin dots won't be cleans able by your team healer. Bioware is completely out of their gourds stupid at this point.

 

Tldr; biofail is terrible at their jobs, this will go through.

 

Sin stun aside...few Sins run Madness in ranked, infact its rare amongst sSins (though the good ones are good and stay); ED is getting nerfed in 2.8 so you can relax. And if it goes live once again itll be a Pyro-only class as AP already cant keep up with it.

 

The only OP class i see (PvP wise) is Deception Sin and that has never changed. Outside of that (and ED which i think is fine before it was terrible) the classes in PvP are balanced. In PvE I would probably say the same because its a different ball park...groups run with whatever they deem necessary for a fight.

[Kooziejr]

It probably will go live. The game is so broken and so many classes have been getting OP candy since 2.6... I just don't give a **** anymore. I'm too busy playing ESO to care.

 

Besides. Why not overpower us? Sins got yet another stun last patch. At least on PTS we can dot up a sin before we're stun locked to death. Jugg ED is still way better than kolto ever will be. Madness sin dots won't be cleans able by your team healer. Bioware is completely out of their gourds stupid at this point.

 

Tldr; biofail is terrible at their jobs, this will go through.

 

It wont go live a dev said it was too strong the new buffs. Also sin stun is good got ur beloved ap. Means u take 30% less damage on the next attack after the knockdown than u did b4.

 

Game is dead. Xferring some toons to harb today for ranked 4s but Srsly game is dead find a new one. Over and out.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Kooziejr

[Brunner_Venda]

It wont go live a dev said it was too strong the new buffs. Also sin stun is good got ur beloved ap. Means u take 30% less damage on the next attack after the knockdown than u did b4.

 

Game is dead. Xferring some toons to harb today for ranked 4s but Srsly game is dead find a new one. Over and out.

 

Link? Everything I see has both buffs going forward.

[ceelaniri]

Link? Everything I see has both buffs going forward.

 

it s hinted here that some buff will be toned down, not sure if that concerns the Pyro buff though

 

This is an interesting topic, and one that the team I actually have spent a little time discussing this past week with the 2.8 stuff. I feel like we probably have fallen prey to mostly buffs because it makes people happy, and we've pushed our target DPS values for classes higher than the underlying combat theory on what the system expects. I think you will start to see some of that realization a bit as we try to be a little more careful about pure dps buffs (and some of the things we've done in round 1 of 2.8 patch are going to get ratcheted back a touch), and then we will need to decide what to do about the already live classes that are performing too well. It's easy to say just start swinging the nerf bat, but that really isn't a great solution. In a perfect world we will be able to make a bunch of small steps in a bunch of places (survivability, defense, threat, DPS, HPS) and get us to a better equilibrium, it is just going to take us awhile to get there.

 

Food for thought, for sure. I wish I had a good magic bullet.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7399081#edit7399081

[Brunner_Venda]

it s hinted here that some buff will be toned down, not sure if that concerns the Pyro buff though

 

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7399081#edit7399081

 

I really hope they fix that. If anyone needs a 35% buff to dot damage, it's AP.

 

Why? Because AP/tactics only HAS one dot. Pyro can apply up to three, over and over again. It would be nice if gut/retractable blade you know, hurt people again? Right now it's only used to setup a whopping 5K rail shot.

 

Gah, don't get me started on this.

[Sosajoshua]

I really hope they fix that. If anyone needs a 35% buff to dot damage, it's AP.

 

Why? Because AP/tactics only HAS one dot. Pyro can apply up to three, over and over again. It would be nice if gut/retractable blade you know, hurt people again? Right now it's only used to setup a whopping 5K rail shot.

 

Gah, don't get me started on this.

 

BW doesnt wanna give us what AP deserves because they are too busy working on stopping the QQ about Warriors/Knights

[Brunner_Venda]

BW doesnt wanna give us what AP deserves because they are too busy working on stopping the QQ about Warriors/Knights

 

That's because the devs were stupid enough to listen to warrior feedback to begin with, and they ignored everyone else.

 

Dev: duuuuh! so what do you guys think about this new ED?

Warriors: this **** is great! Not OP at all! Feels just about right!

 

They ignored the overwhelming bad feedback in the 2.7 PTS from other classes.

The 2.8 nerf isn't going to go nearly far enough.

[Sosajoshua]

That's because the devs were stupid enough to listen to warrior feedback to begin with, and they ignored everyone else.

 

Dev: duuuuh! so what do you guys think about this new ED?

Warriors: this **** is great! Not OP at all! Feels just about right!

 

They ignored the overwhelming bad feedback in the 2.7 PTS from other classes.

The 2.8 nerf isn't going to go nearly far enough.

 

I may just end up shelfing my AP again and just stay with my Madness. To wonder what it'll take BW to give Advanced Proto some justice

[gocard]

Honestly, as long as they give each advanced class a viable DPS spec, I think it's tough to complain. Preventing people from having to roll another character for endgame PVE or PVP because your class is so far behind other classes should be priority #1, and it doesn't feel like they've gotten to that point yet (assassin and PT dps is lacking in PVE, operative dps is lacking in PVP). Only when they've accomplished that is when I would start looking at secondary DPS trees. So if the devs give us the Pyro tree for PVE dps, I can't really argue with them ignoring AP while they balance out other advanced classes.

[Brunner_Venda]

Honestly, as long as they give each advanced class a viable DPS spec, I think it's tough to complain. Preventing people from having to roll another character for endgame PVE or PVP because your class is so far behind other classes should be priority #1, and it doesn't feel like they've gotten to that point yet (assassin and PT dps is lacking in PVE, operative dps is lacking in PVP). Only when they've accomplished that is when I would start looking at secondary DPS trees. So if the devs give us the Pyro tree for PVE dps, I can't really argue with them ignoring AP while they balance out other advanced classes.

 

I hear you, I really do. Problem is that I don't want to play pyro/assault spec on my VG. At all. But you have to, or you're going to die to other PT players frequently.

 

I've already stated my case for why AP. The class takes a lot of the jagged edges off of PVP., making it a ton more fun You spend less time rooted or slowed. You spend less time stunned overall with the combat tech bonus. When you are stunned you take far less damage. You have better passive defenses, so you can focus more on offense burst and taunts. The animations are cooler and flamethrower is a ton of fun.

[Sosajoshua]

Honestly, as long as they give each advanced class a viable DPS spec, I think it's tough to complain. Preventing people from having to roll another character for endgame PVE or PVP because your class is so far behind other classes should be priority #1, and it doesn't feel like they've gotten to that point yet (assassin and PT dps is lacking in PVE, operative dps is lacking in PVP). Only when they've accomplished that is when I would start looking at secondary DPS trees. So if the devs give us the Pyro tree for PVE dps, I can't really argue with them ignoring AP while they balance out other advanced classes.

 

Forgive me if i see this as an excuse.

 

Granted, I recognize that BW overall has been trying to enhance and change shared tress (Pyro/Assault, Madness/Balance, Lethality/Dirtyfighting, Rage/Focus) and this is a good thing because there are problems that one class has with the spec that another doesn't. However, there are a large majority of players (for the sake of the argument let us stay without this class) that play Advanced Prototype. Why should we not receive appropriate enhancements and changes to our spec that at least puts it on average with the other spec? Now I have not done PvE content since Oricon so someone can detail this but from a PvP perspective Advanced Prototype, what should be the burst spec between it and Pyro, is a spec with low damage output but great utility and passive defense. Now I am not saying "drop a bunch of buff so I can be OP" but give us some damage or surge or alter the abilities so that we actually are the Burst spec of this class. It's like with our utility and defenses we are just there to yank people all the time and never get rooted. No one wants to play a class we wanna enjoy AP and not feel so underwheing doing it.

[TACeMossie]

Forgive me if i see this as an excuse.

 

Granted, I recognize that BW overall has been trying to enhance and change shared tress (Pyro/Assault, Madness/Balance, Lethality/Dirtyfighting, Rage/Focus) and this is a good thing because there are problems that one class has with the spec that another doesn't. However, there are a large majority of players (for the sake of the argument let us stay without this class) that play Advanced Prototype. Why should we not receive appropriate enhancements and changes to our spec that at least puts it on average with the other spec? Now I have not done PvE content since Oricon so someone can detail this but from a PvP perspective Advanced Prototype, what should be the burst spec between it and Pyro, is a spec with low damage output but great utility and passive defense. Now I am not saying "drop a bunch of buff so I can be OP" but give us some damage or surge or alter the abilities so that we actually are the Burst spec of this class. It's like with our utility and defenses we are just there to yank people all the time and never get rooted. No one wants to play a class we wanna enjoy AP and not feel so underwheing doing it.

 

To be fair, in an operations context AP is superior for Draxus, Grob'Thok (excludes NiM), Corruptor Zero, Brontes and Bestia, as well as the Initial Past phase of Calphayus (and if you want pyro at any other time you can respec mid fight... i've done it ) as well as the second future phase of NiM Calphayus if you can get the orbs together.

 

Pyro got buffs because the only fight it wasn't a liability on was the Dread Council fight, where it was good for kiting Raptus around, and fast people could respec to AP for the last phase (and the Styrak + Brontes phase in NiM) because they can utilize the AoE Reduction + the close proximity of the bosses to each other to get the max output of AP in it.

 

TL;DR, without the pyro buffs, PTs were only useful as a tank for Nefra, NiM Grob'thok, Tyrans, Future->Past team Calphayus, and Raptus, and anything else is gimping yourself.

Edited May 16, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Sosajoshua]

Now I have not done PvE content since Oricon so someone can detail this...

 

lol I did say this somewhere in my last post it's not that I'm saying AP doesnt have PvE leverage over Pyro I just havent done PvE content recently so I couldn't speak for it. Even then I believe you making note of the defenses capabilities and not damage output

[gocard]

...but from a PvP perspective Advanced Prototype, what should be the burst spec between it and Pyro, is a spec with low damage output but great utility and passive defense. Now I am not saying "drop a bunch of buff so I can be OP" but give us some damage or surge or alter the abilities so that we actually are the Burst spec of this class. It's like with our utility and defenses we are just there to yank people all the time and never get rooted. No one wants to play a class we wanna enjoy AP and not feel so underwheing doing it.

 

Why is AP the burst spec? Seems like AP is the AOE or multi-target damage spec of the class because of the reliance on Flame Thrower, while PT is the burst or single target spec because of the reliance on Rail Shot.

[Sosajoshua]

Why is AP the burst spec? Seems like AP is the AOE or multi-target damage spec of the class because of the reliance on Flame Thrower, while PT is the burst or single target spec because of the reliance on Rail Shot.

 

Pyro is the dot spec and it relies on those dots for everything. IM, CGC, and TD burn each apply a dot and Rail Shot refreshes the CGC that is applied by Rocket Punch and FlameBurst. The reliance of Rail shot is mainly to reapply the dot constantly not do damage itself (though it indeed does).

 

AP has (on paper) high damage in Immolate, a free Rocket Punch, and a 100% Rail Shot added to that the 7 missile Shoulder Cannon and then of course boosted Flamethrower (all hitting harder if affected by Retractable Blade dot). I am not saying AP isnt the AoE of the class but it should be functioning more as the burst spec than Pyro seems to do. The only move that should be subpar for AP is Flameburst as it is your filler to help build FT proc