3 Questions for PT. Lets DO IT!

[KeyboardNinja]

Assassins regenerate force at a very high rate compared to powertechs. They also have a reduction in force cost for lacerate. This makes lacerate spamable. Jugs are identical in this regard also. Sweeping slash is a lot cheaper than Powertechs flames sweep. It can be spammed and it generates really good threat to boot.

 

No cost reduction on Lacerate. You're thinking of Juggs and Sweeping Slash. Lacerate costs 40 force for an assassin, and during the cast we regenerate roughly 21 force if we're actively tanking a large pack, which gives it a net cost of 19. In practice, we get about 3 before it becomes a problem. Remember, we need to have enough force left over to use our better AoEs on cooldown, and if it's a hard-hitting mob, also our active mitigation.

 

Powertechs are very easy-mode with respect to AoE threat. I'll give you a hint: you have far more AoE abilities that are not Flame Sweep than you have AoE abilities which are Flame Sweep. Flame Thrower is outstandingly good, especially if you can get your first one off before the proc (thus getting two early on). Death From Above is quite excellent as well, though hard to place. And of course, Explosive Dart. Beyond that, tab target, and don't ever spam Flame Sweep! Use your two free activations interleaved between more expensive AoEs and call it a day. You have much more useful things on which to spend that heat.

 

Oh, and it's also worth noting that Flame Sweep does almost triple the threat that Lacerate does, both because it is internal damage, and because it has a threat boost (while Lacerate is completely unmodified).

Edited March 25, 2014 by KeyboardNinja

[buckman]

Making pure tanks valuable in PVP

 

I will just throw out a few suggestions here.

 

You can make tanks deny MORE damage in pvp. I would love to see some way for tanks to reduce a damage player's output with almost every attack that the tank does. More damage reduction for single target abilities.

 

Make the Top tree ability ALMOST overpowered. This can go for ANY spec. Give people a reason to go full tank spec or any spec. Weak top skill boxes are why people go to hybrids.

[Rebel_Guy]

Hilarious.

 

I have all 3 tanks. I run all the PvE content. Its not apples to oranges at all. Tanking is a universal concept.

I said your list was apples to oranges- you listed some random abilities and left out many important ones(for all tank classes I might add, but it was biased regardless to make the powertech look the worst by listing the least). if you're going to compare threat like that you might as well not bother. Having and playing a class doesn't automatically qualify you to speak for its balance- especially when you look at some of the things that you posted which makes me not take your word very seriously when it comes to balance (lacerate is not a strength of an assassin tank threat, mentioning it and even saying it's better than flamesweep really hurts your credibility because it's the weakest option it has. Assasin tanks other abilties are what makes it great at threat, not lacerate. Why you emphasize this ability above the other abilities is beyond me)

 

Operations mob pull -> Initiate attack then spam as much aoe as possible and offset with taunts and cc. Your goal is to hold as much of the adds as possible for as long as possible. Bad tanks can't hold threat worth ****.

With some exceptions (splitting up on calph) aoe threat falls on teamwork between your tanks- gathering them being just as important as actually doing threat on them. With two aoe taunts there shouldn't be an excuse to let them all scatter even if you had some aoe heavy dps (mostly having draxus in mind here as letting the subteroths scatter is annoying to everybody).

 

Assassins and Jugs have a much easier time holding threat in both single target and group situations. That isn't debatable.. its fact!

 

I'm guessing your using the old argument "if I can't do it then others must not be able to either". All tanks can hold threat for the most part (unguarded carnage or concealment etc can possibly give all three tanks trouble in the very beginning) even when dps try to pull so long as taunts are used wisely. Just stating this does NOT make it fact.

 

Flame sweep is inferior to lacerate and sweeping slash.

Let's say that even if this statement was completely true (sweeping slash is a lot more resource friendly than either of them, but I still don't think flame sweep is worse than lacerate) . Who cares? All three are an aoe filler not a core part of your rotation, using aoe taunts wisely with you and your co-tank will be the bottom line in holding a large amount of adds anyway in an operation.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Rebel_Guy

[DEATHICIDE]

Hey folks!

 

What could change, or be improved upon to increase desirability of pure tanks in PvP?

 

Oil slick causing a chance of slipping and falling over would be nice.

Being able to light it on fire with flamethrower as well would be cherry.

[TheSupaCoopa]

They should change the self-heal for Shoulder Cannon to be reactive like Kolto Shell. That way we would not waste the self-heals in order to gain threat.

 

Maybe it would be OP... if that is the case, then it would be best if they changed it another way.

[Melon_Lord]

Based on the first answer back I must say I'm a little curious about this part.

 

"we are hoping to increase the sustained damage output of Pyrotech/Assault Specialist Powertechs/Vanguards, likely by giving a boost to the specialization’s periodic damage"

 

Do you think it's exact, or maybe they forgot to add Tactics/Advanced Prototype for gut and retractable blade?

[wadecounty]

I just want to clarify something from the Jugg tank perspective. Sweeping Slash is the most resource friendly of the spammable AOE's that the tanks have, but Juggs are also the most restricted of the tanks when it comes to other AOE abilities, having to rely on two 12 second cooldown AOE's outside of Sweeping Slash (unless Saber Reflect is available).

 

By comparison, PT's have Death From Above (the strongest AOE ability of any tank), Flamethrower on an 18 second cooldown which with the fast channel proc means a TON of aoe damage, Sticky on 15 seconds, and 2 free Flame Sweeps at the start of a pull. Oh and the dot spreading via railshot.

 

So the difference is, PT's have a lot more aoe options outside of Flame Sweep, and still get 2 free ones on top of that. The average pull for a PT, he can lead with sticky, flamethrower, proc a 2nd fast channel flamethrower, railshot with dot spread, and then finally 2 flame sweeps. For a jugg, you have smash/crushing blow and then absolutely nothing for 9 seconds while you wait for those 2 abilities to come off cd but sweeping slash. For sins, they're also limited to 2 aoe abilities outside of lacerate, but they have a 9 and 6 second cd respectively and so are used much more often.

 

All 3 tanks are relatively balanced in terms of aoe threat, its just how they're balanced differs. Sins have the lowest cooldown on their good aoe threat skills, PT's have the most aoe options at the start of a pull and get 2 free flame sweeps to add to that, juggs have the most resource friendly spammable aoe but the least aoe options outside of that.

[TACeMossie]

Based on the first answer back I must say I'm a little curious about this part.

 

"we are hoping to increase the sustained damage output of Pyrotech/Assault Specialist Powertechs/Vanguards, likely by giving a boost to the specialization’s periodic damage"

 

Do you think it's exact, or maybe they forgot to add Tactics/Advanced Prototype for gut and retractable blade?

 

Well to be fair, I did some maths and the next gear tier ia giving ~10% more dps to AP should flame barrage always proc, and only ~5% to pyro. And with AP being so AoE heavy...

 

But yeah. Fix flame barrage with Flame Burst, improve Retractable Blades damage back to what it used to be, and make Rapid Venting give Energy Returns on Crits instead of alacrity and that would bring the specs to a good level,

 

As for making tanks more viable in PvP:

Guardian/Juggernaut - Significantly improve the shield provided by rhe mass taunt (like a 500% increase), and make it last up to 30 seconds long. This makes the guardian/Jugg a high priority target. Also tie Zen Strike/Rampage to Shien Form to stop the hybrids

 

Vanguards/Powertechs - Something awesome with riot gas/oil Slick that involves electrifying it (Vanguards)/Lighting it on fire(Powertechs), causing it to linger for 5 seconds after leaving the area and do periodic damage the whole time.

 

Shadows/Assasins - I got nothing. My assassin is level 35 so Id need someone else to come up with this one.

Edited March 25, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Mularky]

I don't understand the reasoning behind the previous Bursting Flame changes. Is it actually a dps increase for PVE? It just kinda feels wrong Flame Bursting someone and not setting them on fire.

[Salakast]

]

Well to be fair, I did some maths and the next gear tier ia giving ~10% more dps to AP should flame barrage always proc, and only ~5% to pyro. And with AP being so AoE heavy...

 

But yeah. Fix flame barrage with Flame Burst, improve Retractable Blades damage back to what it used to be, and make Rapid Venting give Energy Returns on Crits instead of alacrity and that would bring the specs to a good level,

 

How much of the gap to other dps specs will be closed for AP other than leaving pyro a bit further behind? If they are also getting 5-10% bump, and with improvements incoming for various classes, AP could end up getting left far behind after Pyro is buffed??

Edited March 26, 2014 by Salakast

[buckman]

As for making tanks more viable in PvP:

Guardian/Juggernaut - Significantly improve the shield provided by rhe mass taunt (like a 500% increase), and make it last up to 30 seconds long. This makes the guardian/Jugg a high priority target. Also tie Zen Strike/Rampage to Shien Form to stop the hybrids

 

Vanguards/Powertechs - Something awesome with riot gas/oil Slick that involves electrifying it (Vanguards)/Lighting it on fire(Powertechs), causing it to linger for 5 seconds after leaving the area and do periodic damage the whole time.

 

Shadows/Assasins - I got nothing. My assassin is level 35 so Id need someone else to come up with this one.

 

 

To piggyback on your idea to make tanks high priority targets in PVP. Would be cool to see an ability that made it so that it would be pointless to attack anyone in the area other than the tank (tank still takes normal damage as mitigated by their cooldowns)

[TACeMossie]

How much of the gap to other dps specs will be closed for AP other than leaving pyro a bit further behind? If they are also getting 5-10% bump, and with improvements incoming for various classes, AP could end up getting left far behind after Pyro is buffed??

 

Haven't looked at other specs yet

 

Ill do one for pyro merc next so we have a %deficit for both specs

Edited March 26, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Loki_]

Quote:

We agree that Powertech/Vanguard sustained damage output currently lags a bit behind some of the better damage dealers in the game right now. We do not currently have any finalized plans to discuss in this regard, but in a future update, we are hoping to increase the sustained damage output of Pyrotech/Assault Specialist Powertechs/Vanguards, likely by giving a boost to the specialization’s periodic damage. Our end goal here is to provide Powertechs/Vanguards with a specialization that can provide competitive sustained damage to their operation groups.

[/color]

 

So giving back the dot damage that you took away in 2.0 ... why is it every time a class needs slight tweaks you use a sledge hammer when all that was needed was a gentle tap ... then some months later you come back and put things back the way they were.

[idnewton]

Decent answers, as others have said.

 

However, I am a bit curious as to the strategy behind the DPS specs. This wasn't addressed in the questions so much as it was in the answers. Come to think of it, both DPS specs are DoT-based. Is it just me, or does that seem a little strange? Posting from an imperial perspective...

 

 

ADVANCED CLASS - - - - - - - - DOT SPEC - - - - - - - - - - - BURST SPEC

 

MARAUDER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ANNIHILATION . . . . . . . . . . CARNAGE

JUGGERNAUT . . . . . . . . . . . . . VENGEANCE. . . . . . . . . . . .RAGE

OPERATIVE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . LETHALITY . . . . . . . . . . . . .CONCEALMENT

SNIPER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .LETHALITY . . . . . . . . . . . . .MARKSMANSHIP

SORCERER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . MADNESS . . . . . . . . . . . . . LIGHTNING

ASSASSIN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .MADNESS . . . . . . . . . . . . . DECEPTION

MERCENARY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PYROTECH . . . . . . . . . . . . ARSENAL

POWERTECH . . . . . . . . . . . . . .PROTO / PYROTECH . . . . .????????

 

 

The Warrior advanced classes are a bit hard to define in terms of burst or dot spec, since every DPS spec has dots of some kind. Am I the only one finding this info a bit odd though? Looks to me like powertech/vanguard is the only advanced class in the game without a burst spec. Am I missing something? Pretty sure both are dot specs...

Edited March 26, 2014 by idnewton

[Krev_Roo]

Like many people here the fact that they seemed to gloss over or forget about Tactics/Advanced Prototype's lack of sustained dps kinda bothers me. Sure it can seem to be better for AOE boss fights, but the fact is that I (personally) can do just as well in those fights, if not far better damage, in Assault Spec/Pyrotech. If they agree that Assault/Pyro for this AC is lackluster then what is tactics/Prototype? Lacklusterer?

 

What could change, or be improved upon to increase desirability of pure tanks in PvP?

 

As for Tanking in PvP there just needs to be something extra to make Tanks more annoying while not making them invincible. To be honest most people will do their best to avoid a tank if they have a healer on them cause obviously this is a great strategy to prolong fighting and doesn't give the people fighting this combo an edge. For us troopers perhaps a reworking of Stealth scan would be a nice idea as this isn't really a great move and while if people utilizing it properly can prevent that suprise attack, it is for all other intents and purposes useless (It is only useful like 2 or 3 times total in PVE. haha). Perhaps adding a type of buff for friendly players or a natural immobilization that doesn't require specing into it along with the 3 second grapple one and wasting valuable points can address this (two points, seriously?). However, having more pulls and/or pushes while it could be far more annoying and grab player's attention toward the tank, it would just be ridiculous as there are already enough controlling aspects in the game as is.

 

I would recommend an increase or higher focus on protection as this is already something set up for tanks in the pvp boards already and kinda needs a little extra focus. The hard part about this is that dps can utilize their taunts smartly and get just as much if not far more (if they are skilled enough) protection than the tanks in a warzone or arena. I believe that tanks should get a passive boost to the amount of protection that they can 'dish out'. Perhaps somewhere in their higher trees add additional bonuses to their taunts, or even their threat generation? I'm pretty sure that threat doesn't play any part in PvP at all at this current time, that will boost their protection. Now I'm not sure of this but I believe that the passive protection on taunts is always 30% no matter the taunt type if they are attacking someone other than you. There are multiple ways that this can be reformed;

 

1. Taunt protection could be boosted up to 50% for tanks in their higher tree skill.

 

Pro: It would definitely cause the to get angry seeing low numbers and give them ample reason to attack the tank. Also you would be getting far more protection points and it would add to your score as a tank.

 

Con: that extra 20% can be a lot of damage that those people would be missing out on and could cause a lot of raging seeing as some attacks seem to do very little damage as is and seeing those numbers even lower can be demoralizing I know I would be pissed off if my crit that could be 10k hit for a measly 5k or a non crit that only hits for 3k hit for 1.5k.

 

Workaround: Maybe add that 20% to reflect to the tank like their guard mechanic. This way I think enemy dps will still be getting credit for the 20% of damage and tanks would still be doing their job by getting damage off their teammates and onto them. Though that could add up to a lot of damage if you use an aoe taunt, so unsure about this workaround.

 

2. Work tank's mitigation into protection points.

 

Pro: any time people turn to you or the longer you keep people off your team mates and on you, you are gaining protection points by dodging, blocking, or absorbing their damage. This would entice more players to work together and would be a nice symmetry with the way teamwork is in PvE Or what teamwork means in general. Tanks are supposed to Tank after all.

 

Con: I'm not really sure how this would technically be accomplished as I'm not a programmer. If this was happening all the time their points could end up a little ridiculous so it might not be wise to give them too much when this happens.

 

Work around:

Perhaps tie this in with Taunts, so that while the enemy is under the influence of your taunt every time they attack you and you mitigate damage you gain protection points cause they are on you and not your team mates.

 

3. Just the taunt mitigation idea somewhere in the higher tanks tree skills. Anytime an enemy is under the influence of your taunt and you mitigate their damage, you gain protection points.

 

Pro: It would be just for tanks and dps would not be getting these extra points. And it highly encourages taunting as a tank in pvp,{ For some reason tanks don't do this enough as is and often you'll see dps doing much better protection just because they use their taunts more, and makes the tanks look like bad dps on the leader board}

 

Con: Implementation, again I'm not a programmer so this might be difficult to add in. Otherwise I think this could possibly be the most stable of the three options.

 

4. all the above

Pro: all the pros. Improve scoring values for tanks and increase protection value meaning heavily. People would be overly grateful to see any tank in their group as this means they can mitigate heavy amounts of damage from their teammates. Also helps them be tanks as people will want to kill them instead of just ignoring them or stunning them and running off to kill their teammates instead.

 

Con: all the cons. Could be hard to implement all these values into coding. Could also make multiple tanks a little OP especially if they have their own healers. Sometimes it's hard enough to deal with this combo as is in PvP when encountering really good tanks and having more protection being dealt out by them could be a problem if teams aren't balanced as they normally aren't.

 

TL:DR : increase the importance of Protection, a value system already in place for tanks and allow them to get more points in this field than dps can.

 

Overall thoughts ?

Edited March 26, 2014 by Krev_Roo

[cs_zoltan]

Decent answers, as others have said.

 

However, I am a bit curious as to the strategy behind the DPS specs. This wasn't addressed in the questions so much as it was in the answers. Come to think of it, both DPS specs are DoT-based. Is it just me, or does that seem a little strange? Posting from an imperial perspective...

 

 

ADVANCED CLASS - - - - - - - - DOT SPEC - - - - - - - - - - - BURST SPEC

 

MARAUDER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ANNIHILATION . . . . . . . . . . CARNAGE

JUGGERNAUT . . . . . . . . . . . . . VENGEANCE. . . . . . . . . . . .RAGE

OPERATIVE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . LETHALITY . . . . . . . . . . . . .CONCEALMENT

SNIPER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .LETHALITY . . . . . . . . . . . . .MARKSMANSHIP

SORCERER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . MADNESS . . . . . . . . . . . . . LIGHTNING

ASSASSIN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .MADNESS . . . . . . . . . . . . . DECEPTION

MERCENARY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PYROTECH . . . . . . . . . . . . ARSENAL

POWERTECH . . . . . . . . . . . . . .PROTO / PYROTECH . . . . .????????

 

 

The Warrior advanced classes are a bit hard to define in terms of burst or dot spec, since every DPS spec has dots of some kind. Am I the only one finding this info a bit odd though? Looks to me like powertech/vanguard is the only advanced class in the game without a burst spec. Am I missing something? Pretty sure both are dot specs...

 

AP has one rolling DoT, and 3 hard hitting ability on moderate cooldown with weak fillers. Seems like a burst spec to me, just a bad one.

[AngelFluttershy]

AP has one rolling DoT, and 3 hard hitting ability on moderate cooldown with weak fillers. Seems like a burst spec to me, just a bad one.

 

^This. Engineering for Snipers is also another burst spec with moderate-long cooldowns.

[TACeMossie]

Decent answers, as others have said.

 

However, I am a bit curious as to the strategy behind the DPS specs. This wasn't addressed in the questions so much as it was in the answers. Come to think of it, both DPS specs are DoT-based. Is it just me, or does that seem a little strange? Posting from an imperial perspective...

 

 

ADVANCED CLASS - - - - - - - - DOT SPEC - - - - - - - - - - - BURST SPEC

 

MARAUDER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ANNIHILATION . . . . . . . . . . CARNAGE

JUGGERNAUT . . . . . . . . . . . . . VENGEANCE. . . . . . . . . . . .RAGE

OPERATIVE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . LETHALITY . . . . . . . . . . . . .CONCEALMENT

SNIPER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .LETHALITY . . . . . . . . . . . . .MARKSMANSHIP

SORCERER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . MADNESS . . . . . . . . . . . . . LIGHTNING

ASSASSIN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .MADNESS . . . . . . . . . . . . . DECEPTION

MERCENARY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PYROTECH . . . . . . . . . . . . ARSENAL

POWERTECH . . . . . . . . . . . . . .PROTO / PYROTECH . . . . .????????

 

 

The Warrior advanced classes are a bit hard to define in terms of burst or dot spec, since every DPS spec has dots of some kind. Am I the only one finding this info a bit odd though? Looks to me like powertech/vanguard is the only advanced class in the game without a burst spec. Am I missing something? Pretty sure both are dot specs...

 

Powertech:

 

Sustained spec... Well... yeah.

Burst Spec: Pyrotech for average length fights, AP for really short fights.

 

Why? Cause shoulder cannon, Explosive Fuel ect... are all really good for burst damage, but suck in sustained situations due to ~105 seconds cooldown

 

AP's burst comes from its explosive fuel windows, which consist of 7x shoulder cannon, 2x Rocket Punch, 1x immolate, 1x retractable blade, 1x auto-crit rail shot, and a +60% flamethrower, with fillers of flame bursts and using energy returns to make up for the bursty situations

 

Pyros burst is much more often. The opener, Thermal Detonator -> IM -> Rail Shot -> Rocket Punch -> Rail Shot with shoulder cannons thrown in tends to rip people apart, and any situation where the TD explosion times up with Rail Shot (which is every 30 seconds) there is a burst of up to 18.4k + burns within that cooldown. And thats only in dread forged gear.

 

The real problem of Powertechs, is due to how bursty it is, and how one of its 2 trees has a lot of its damage coming from AoE attacks, its difficult to balance properly. To make matters worse, its obscenely powerful defensive cooldowns means that buffing its sustained damage could cause problems in PvP. I'd be all for losing the damage reduction on Kolto Overload if it meant I didn't have resource management issues and Flame Burst always applied CGC though.

 

Oh and to reference how bursty Pyro is, on my Assault Vanguard (Pub mirror) I pulled off an optimised-in-dread-forged guardian tank. Through a guard. When I accidentally had a shield equipped instead of a generator. In pretty much optimized underworld gear with armorings/mods swapped out where possible (but not enhancements).

Edited March 26, 2014 by TACeMossie

[JMagee]

Just a quick thought regarding the "omission" of tactics from the answer of question 1.

 

I don't think it was an omission. I personally don't think you can fix tactics by increasing DoT damage. Gut is the only DoT the spec rolls, and in order to push the DPS of the spec up to the levels of other classes, you'd have to bring the bleed tick up substantially. I think a bleed critting for 1100 is mildly annoying in PvP, and OK for sustained PvE damage, but a bleed continually critting for 2k+ or so, is sort of past the idea of a common DoT. (Over-exaggeration: Gut becomes "bursty" it's fluffed up so much) ((semi speculative numbers for DoT damage, correct if wildly wrong)

At least with assault there are two separate DoTs with different lengths that you could spread the damage over.

 

I don't know how you fix Tactics. When it works, i.e very little movement, Boss/player stands in front of you and eats a whole pulse cannon channel, it's not bad at all. But when you center a spec around building up stacks for an AoE ability, it becomes a headache to balance for all phases of the game, especially if the target moves laterally, at all. Or you have to move. If you're in good sync with your raid group and know how/when/where they are going to move, you can make tactics work. But it's clunky, awkward, and can become frustrating quickly.

 

You can't give a flat damage buff to any singular abilty, because it would make the spec even better in PvP, and you shouldn't speed up cast times or reduce ICDs or QoL-type improvements. I'm sure there are options, but at first glance it seems that until Tactics somehow is disengaged from Pulse Cannon, it's going to be stuck in the mire.

 

The one rough idea I think could be useful is adjust a few CD timers (Fire Pulse/Ion Pulse/Explosive Surge) and allowing the Pulse Generator stacks to be consumed with Fire Pulse. Maybe the same 20/40/60% damage per stack, and flat 40% slow (like Sweltering Heat) and each use of FP consumes one stack. A sort of Hybrid between Upper Hand stacks and the current Pulse Generator. It would give some variability to the spec, and increase some mobility and single target "burst" at the expense of AoE sustained. And of course FP would not longer be able to grant PG stacks, or else it would rather redundant.

 

Just an idea. Probably something glaring about it that would ruin something that I'm just missing at the moment.

Edited March 26, 2014 by JMagee

[Mularky]

Anyone have an idea of what dot they will buff?

[idnewton]

Oh and to reference how bursty Pyro is, on my Assault Vanguard (Pub mirror) I pulled off an optimised-in-dread-forged guardian tank. Through a guard. When I accidentally had a shield equipped instead of a generator. In pretty much optimized underworld gear with armorings/mods swapped out where possible (but not enhancements).

 

Sounds to me like you got yourself a sucky tank

[Ottoattack]

Decent answers, as others have said.

 

However, I am a bit curious as to the strategy behind the DPS specs. This wasn't addressed in the questions so much as it was in the answers. Come to think of it, both DPS specs are DoT-based. Is it just me, or does that seem a little strange? Posting from an imperial perspective...

 

 

ADVANCED CLASS - - - - - - - - DOT SPEC - - - - - - - - - - - BURST SPEC

 

MARAUDER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ANNIHILATION . . . . . . . . . . CARNAGE

JUGGERNAUT . . . . . . . . . . . . . VENGEANCE. . . . . . . . . . . .RAGE

OPERATIVE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . LETHALITY . . . . . . . . . . . . .CONCEALMENT

SNIPER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .LETHALITY . . . . . . . . . . . . .MARKSMANSHIP

SORCERER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . MADNESS . . . . . . . . . . . . . LIGHTNING

ASSASSIN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .MADNESS . . . . . . . . . . . . . DECEPTION

MERCENARY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PYROTECH . . . . . . . . . . . . ARSENAL

POWERTECH . . . . . . . . . . . . . .PROTO / PYROTECH . . . . .????????

 

 

The Warrior advanced classes are a bit hard to define in terms of burst or dot spec, since every DPS spec has dots of some kind. Am I the only one finding this info a bit odd though? Looks to me like powertech/vanguard is the only advanced class in the game without a burst spec. Am I missing something? Pretty sure both are dot specs...

 

Pyro PT is one of the burstiest specs. Hands down. The burst in PvP is not only in how much damage can you rack, but how difficult it is to shut it down. You cant interrupt or kite pyro PT. Pressure has no impact on damage output. Only 2 things effect pyros burst, CC and death.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Ottoattack

[TACeMossie]

Sounds to me like you got yourself a sucky tank

 

He wasn't a bad tank. I've run HM DF with him in the past with me as the other tank and he could hold his own pretty damn well. Though not using Saber Reflect in the opener against Calphayrus did mean his threat generation wouldn't have been anywhere near as good, and combine that with the fact I got about an 80% crit rate in that opener (it was ridiculous)...

 

Now if I could just get a group that could actually down Corruptor Zero. I've been contemplating doing the stacking trick to beat him recently though...

Edited March 26, 2014 by TACeMossie

[AxeDragoneth]

Yes, as a PvP tank I am sure you are aware of some of the shortcomings of the PT tank. Eg., mez ability and inability to mitigate internal/elemental. I will definitely play lots of PvP PT tank too Rahc if some of these issues are addressed.

Oh, what it would be like to mez...

 

Hope to see your shield against mine sometime.

 

 

As for the answers, this has given me the slightest glimmer of hope by asking the community for more feedback.

What could change, or be improved upon to increase desirability of pure tanks in PvP?

I've seen many burst-heavy hybrids out there completely outshine pure tanks. Hell, I played APtank when it was nearing its way out the door. Intercepting guard damage while controlling the battlefield with an overpowered flamethrower for my role made for more effective tanking, in theory. I couldn't hold my ground as full tank [my native spec] versus these hybrids and was forced to run APtank [which I was unfamiliar with] whenever the other team was using one in 4s because there was no competing... and my win ratio as hybrid was far greater than when I was full tank. To me it seems that taking more steps to diminishing hybrid tanks across the board will make pure tanks as viable again.

 

I will always feel more viable as pure tank over hybrid in a warzone, however. Pure tanks make for better objective play, but we are still outperformed on many occasions by hybrid tanks with high burst dps teammates in arenas.

 

Not necessarily asking for more burst in full tank, but I do like the ideas proposed for taunts that I have seen.

I feel as though we should be encouraging damage dealers to use their taunts more than I feel tanks need to be encouraged, but anything to make me feel more like I'm controlling my opponent's damage output is a good thing.

. . . anti-burst.

 

Defense triggering shield procs would be magnificent, as/or would shield chance on crits. Please look more into that.

 

 

 

I'd also like to take this time to direct people here for tank suggestions, since someone was kind enough to make an entire thread about it based on this question.

Edited March 26, 2014 by AxeDragoneth

[WillLongstick]

What could change, or be improved upon to increase desirability of pure tanks in PvP?

 

I'm reading through everyone else's answers, and I keep having the thought of "Oh god, I don't want time to kill to be going up even more for a healer-tank combo." So here's my thought without thinking through all of the implications:

 

Give pure tank specs access to some form of Trauma debuff.

 

That lets tanks help kill stuff, without increasing there damage. It could be a function of how the 36 point abilities work (Heat Blast, Wither, Crushing Blow), or it could be tied into the taunt function (likely single target only), or it could be an entirely new skill.