3 Questions for PT. Lets DO IT!

[Mathemagica]

I just PMed Eric with a link to this thread. I hope that this will clear any confusion, when he doesn't find any recent Class Rep related post from Jerc.

[Mularky]

I just asked him on the stream and he says "I don't even know what the questions are."

 

So prolly Monday is when we will receive our answers.

[Kooziejr]

Great discussions concerning tanking and the counter-productiveness of alacrity.

 

I understand the pvp tanking question, but can't say I'm exactly on board with more CC. Even with added CC, it appears Shield Tech would still be second rate for pvp when compared to Guardians.

 

I'd still like an explanation why our AC remains the only Tank/Dps without a force/tech immunity and execute. But, last dev session it appeared that the mighty hammer shot was the reason.

 

There was a reasonable post in the Vanguard section regarding the gap closer issue. It isn't requesting Storm/Jet charge, but instead a return to the range on Plastique and Incendiary Round for Assault. As neither ability hits anywhere close to pre-2.0 levels, I'd argue it's worth a look. It helps pve concerns for target switches and allows the spec to build damage as it closes to optimal range.

 

I really that those players requesting that are so blind. What about AP? It makes such a huge inequality.....they have to understand the 30m attacks WERE BROKEN - I remember globalling people from 30m in PvP....

 

So pyro gets 30m attacks that can take people's life to half while AP has to be within 4m range? that sounds like bs to me.

[Kooziejr]

Guys I made this thread because I have no idea where Jerc was. When we had an internal discussion about class rep he said he was still active on the forums and willing to do it so everyone was happy with that....a little disappointed he didn't come back to help us out and submit them.

[Mularky]

I really that those players requesting that are so blind. What about AP? It makes such a huge inequality.....they have to understand the 30m attacks WERE BROKEN - I remember globalling people from 30m in PvP....

 

So pyro gets 30m attacks that can take people's life to half while AP has to be within 4m range? that sounds like bs to me.

 

I can see it happening, but AP would have to get a serious buff in order for this to work.

 

And the devs have asked us to make questions not suggest changes. So there is really no point to be arguing with each other. Its not our job to figure this out as much as I want it to be. I really don't remember the last time the devs listened to someone on class changes. Except for the new sorc stuff.

[AzumaVicious]

I really that those players requesting that are so blind. What about AP? It makes such a huge inequality.....they have to understand the 30m attacks WERE BROKEN - I remember globalling people from 30m in PvP....

 

So pyro gets 30m attacks that can take people's life to half while AP has to be within 4m range? that sounds like bs to me.

 

Assault could hit hard back then, but that opener was ammo prohibitive and the spec could be taken down easily. After 2.0 railshot/hib, im/ir, and td/ap hit no where near to what they did prior to 2.0. I'm doubtful that you're currently seeing Assault Commandos global anyone from 30m utilizing the same exact opener.

 

AP/Tactics has longer uptime on HTL, a passive in-combat speed increase for closing in and has the damage reduction tools (aoe damage reduction, damage reduction while stunned, reflexive shield) to play its role of a much more melee oriented spec. Granted, blaster augs could use a re-review when in high energy cell and there's still little justification for the dot nerf on gut.

[Ottoattack]

Guys I made this thread because I have no idea where Jerc was. When we had an internal discussion about class rep he said he was still active on the forums and willing to do it so everyone was happy with that....a little disappointed he didn't come back to help us out and submit them.

 

Shoot! I realized today is the 14th already. I have no clue were Jerc is.. which is not cool.

[Mathemagica]

Guys I made this thread because I have no idea where Jerc was. When we had an internal discussion about class rep he said he was still active on the forums and willing to do it so everyone was happy with that....a little disappointed he didn't come back to help us out and submit them.

 

Yep and i'm very glad you did. At the same time, I want to thank everyone who put so much constructive energy in these questions. I just hope that they will find this thread and accept the questions in the OP as our questions for this round.

[Kooziejr]

Yep and i'm very glad you did. At the same time, I want to thank everyone who put so much constructive energy in these questions. I just hope that they will find this thread and accept the questions in the OP as our questions for this round.

 

I would like to thank everyone too.

 

I won't argue about pyro/assault sorry. The questions we have are the questions we have and are the most pertinent to powertechs at this time. We can address the other things people are now beginning to discuss at a later date.

[Luckeyduckey]

Thanks so much Koozie for compiling this. Jerc is/was on my server, but I haven't see him or his brother for a few weeks. Hopefully he's alright, although I'm assuming he either doesn't play, or transferred off and is just playing as a casual. Hopefully we'll get some good answers today/tomorrow!

[Capt_Beers]

Guys I made this thread because I have no idea where Jerc was. When we had an internal discussion about class rep he said he was still active on the forums and willing to do it so everyone was happy with that....a little disappointed he didn't come back to help us out and submit them.

 

Thanks for doing it. Hopefully they don't skip PT's altogether.

[Brunner_Venda]

I agree with all of the questions except for the mez you want to add Koozie.

 

CC in this game is ridiculous, and I won't vote for it even to add it to my own class. It sucks. It makes for dog**** gameplay, and frankly I'm tired of all of it to the point of playing other MMO's. If you want to *********** control my character so badly, pay my sub.

 

What we should ask: Can you devs please take a look at the PT tank tree and compare it to the other two tanks and make sure it's up to par on defense, damage, mitigation, and threat generation? The spec has not been significantly changed since 2.0.

 

There. Easy enough.

[Luckyluzi]

 

What we should ask: Can you devs please take a look at the PT tank tree and compare it to the other two tanks and make sure it's up to par on defense, damage, mitigation, and threat generation? The spec has not been significantly changed since 2.0.

 

There. Easy enough.

 

wrong, this question would not help at all, pt tank is fine for pve, our passive mitigation is fine in pvp, but we lack utility and cooldowns against burst damage to work well in ranked pvp compared with the other tank classes

[Brunner_Venda]

wrong, this question would not help at all, pt tank is fine for pve, our passive mitigation is fine in pvp, but we lack utility and cooldowns against burst damage to work well in ranked pvp compared with the other tank classes

 

I can only say from a PVP perspective.

 

I tear apart PT tanks like paper, even the good ones don't stand a chance.

Jugg tanks I can kill, but they take a long time to wear down, and I HAVE to look out for the extra long reflect to survive.

Sin tanks can actually kill me if they are really good and use their cloak to negate my best defenses.

 

I'm talking top tier good players here. PT tanks are 'missing something'. I don't know what exactly, but I don't think it's a mez. I'm currently running a sin in dark charge, and it feels SO much better in PVP than my VG ever did with ion cylinder.

[Kooziejr]

I agree with all of the questions except for the mez you want to add Koozie.

 

CC in this game is ridiculous, and I won't vote for it even to add it to my own class. It sucks. It makes for dog**** gameplay, and frankly I'm tired of all of it to the point of playing other MMO's. If you want to *********** control my character so badly, pay my sub.

 

What we should ask: Can you devs please take a look at the PT tank tree and compare it to the other two tanks and make sure it's up to par on defense, damage, mitigation, and threat generation? The spec has not been significantly changed since 2.0.

 

There. Easy enough.

 

There are lots of things people don't agree it doesn't make it from being a legit question. We asked for parity. That is, either remove CC from the other 2 tank trees or add some to the PT tree to make them as competitive in arenas.

[Kooziejr]

I can only say from a PVP perspective.

 

I tear apart PT tanks like paper, even the good ones don't stand a chance.

Jugg tanks I can kill, but they take a long time to wear down, and I HAVE to look out for the extra long reflect to survive.

Sin tanks can actually kill me if they are really good and use their cloak to negate my best defenses.

 

I'm talking top tier good players here. PT tanks are 'missing something'. I don't know what exactly, but I don't think it's a mez. I'm currently running a sin in dark charge, and it feels SO much better in PVP than my VG ever did with ion cylinder.

 

Its probably that they can't mez you when Kolto is active.....

[MulletManTim]

I do not have the PT ability names translated, so sorry in advance if it causes confusion.

 

From a strictly PVE DPS standpoint, I would prefer to see better resource management for Assault spec. Admittedly, some of the resource issues are caused by the 2% alacrity boost messing with the 6 second CD of Ionic Accelerator and forcing us to throw extra abilities in to proc IA which ultimately leads to more ammo usage than the 2% alacrity boost helps recover. But I think that having a talent that lowered the ammo cost of Ion Pulse and Stock Strike by a bit would help over the course of a boss fight more than slightly increasing the up front damage to Assault Plastique or even a weak buff to the DOTs would give. I would imagine that this would close the gap to some of the other DPS classes more than boosting damage to a single ability because it would allow us to spam Hammer Shot less and use Ion Pulse more.

 

My guess is that the dev team probably feels like VG/PT is doing "fine" in PVP (whether we really are or not) and that any DPS boost to the class would ultimately lead to yet another imbalance on that side of the game.

 

After "The Great 2.0 Super Nerf", the devs have been very slowly buffing both of the VG/PT specs in very very small ways and perhaps they would be more willing to adjust resource management than give us a proper DPS buff to line us up with other classes.

 

Just my thoughts on the matter. Feel free to tell me where my reasoning has failed, because I'm really scratching my head as to why the VG/PT has fallen so far behind the other classes.

[Brunner_Venda]

Its probably that they can't mez you when Kolto is active.....

 

I was going to say an additional DCD to survive the initial burst (and explosive fuel).

 

But you're probably right in what you said before. Another PT tank DCD isn't going to happen, no matter how much it should.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I can only say from a PVP perspective.

 

I tear apart PT tanks like paper, even the good ones don't stand a chance.

Jugg tanks I can kill, but they take a long time to wear down, and I HAVE to look out for the extra long reflect to survive.

Sin tanks can actually kill me if they are really good and use their cloak to negate my best defenses.

 

I'm talking top tier good players here. PT tanks are 'missing something'. I don't know what exactly, but I don't think it's a mez. I'm currently running a sin in dark charge, and it feels SO much better in PVP than my VG ever did with ion cylinder.

 

Wow, you must be REALLY good, or you face REALLY bad PT/VG's, When i play my 55 Vanguard Tank in PvP i feel darn near invincible, but my damage output is pitiful. same with my level 40 Powertech Tank.

 

In PvE, I have noticed a couple of things while leveling my PT Tank with 2x exp.

 

1. the Combust ability seems like it's duration is a bit short and should be changed to be longer, maybe a 15 second duration? I like seeing Flame Burst, but spamming Flame Burst can get a bit hazardous for your heat dissipation, especially in PvP.

 

2. Coolant, The Coolant talent seems, out of place for the tank, 5% Alacrity when using Explosive Fuel? What for? Powertechs shouldn't ever have heat issues if your getting hit by enough AOE, and have high enough Shield %. The 2% HP outside of the Kolto Overload Range, i havent found it that useful, so typically i just avoid the Coolant talent and instead take either Firestorm or Jet Speed, depending on PvE or PvP. with Firestorm for PvP and Jet Speed for PvE.

 

3. Taunts, In certain FP bosses like HK-47 in Foundry and a few others, sometimes when they are casting an attack and I taunt them, they continue attacking the other target like I did nothing! And i never in these instances have had the Ignored debuff, which in the first place Taunts should > Ignored debuff.

 

4. Heat Screens. Heat Screens are your main midigation ability, so why does it take SO LONG to get them? Sin Tanks get Harnessed Darkness at about level 35 - 36, and Jugg Tanks get their main midigation at 15 - 20 with Blade Barricade and Sonic Barrier. It seems that Heat Screens should be moved down to say level 25 ish tier, or say, where No Escape is? and maybe make them a 2 point talent? make each screen give 2% Absorb? Sure you wouldnt have the link between Heat Blast and Heat Screen talents, but you would just move Heat Screen around to allow lower level PT's to get it.

 

5. Deflective Plating. This talent is really out of place for PT tanks, most of their abilities revolve around Shielding attacks, so why is there an ability that increases your Melee and Ranged defence rating by 4%? It seems a bit out there, since you could just skip this talent, and not a whole lot would be missed, unless i'm missing some bigger picture, and if i am please do enlighten me!

[Kooziejr]

Wow, you must be REALLY good, or you face REALLY bad PT/VG's, When i play my 55 Vanguard Tank in PvP i feel darn near invincible, but my damage output is pitiful. same with my level 40 Powertech Tank.

 

In PvE, I have noticed a couple of things while leveling my PT Tank with 2x exp.

 

1. the Combust ability seems like it's duration is a bit short and should be changed to be longer, maybe a 15 second duration? I like seeing Flame Burst, but spamming Flame Burst can get a bit hazardous for your heat dissipation, especially in PvP.

 

2. Coolant, The Coolant talent seems, out of place for the tank, 5% Alacrity when using Explosive Fuel? What for? Powertechs shouldn't ever have heat issues if your getting hit by enough AOE, and have high enough Shield %. The 2% HP outside of the Kolto Overload Range, i havent found it that useful, so typically i just avoid the Coolant talent and instead take either Firestorm or Jet Speed, depending on PvE or PvP. with Firestorm for PvP and Jet Speed for PvE.

 

3. Taunts, In certain FP bosses like HK-47 in Foundry and a few others, sometimes when they are casting an attack and I taunt them, they continue attacking the other target like I did nothing! And i never in these instances have had the Ignored debuff, which in the first place Taunts should > Ignored debuff.

 

4. Heat Screens. Heat Screens are your main midigation ability, so why does it take SO LONG to get them? Sin Tanks get Harnessed Darkness at about level 35 - 36, and Jugg Tanks get their main midigation at 15 - 20 with Blade Barricade and Sonic Barrier. It seems that Heat Screens should be moved down to say level 25 ish tier, or say, where No Escape is? and maybe make them a 2 point talent? make each screen give 2% Absorb? Sure you wouldnt have the link between Heat Blast and Heat Screen talents, but you would just move Heat Screen around to allow lower level PT's to get it.

 

5. Deflective Plating. This talent is really out of place for PT tanks, most of their abilities revolve around Shielding attacks, so why is there an ability that increases your Melee and Ranged defence rating by 4%? It seems a bit out there, since you could just skip this talent, and not a whole lot would be missed, unless i'm missing some bigger picture, and if i am please do enlighten me!

 

Did you ever think about making some of these useful suggestions before we submitted the questions rather than going on about JC?

Edited March 16, 2014 by Kooziejr

[Luckyluzi]

I can only say from a PVP perspective.

 

I tear apart PT tanks like paper, even the good ones don't stand a chance.

Jugg tanks I can kill, but they take a long time to wear down, and I HAVE to look out for the extra long reflect to survive.

Sin tanks can actually kill me if they are really good and use their cloak to negate my best defenses.

 

I'm talking top tier good players here. PT tanks are 'missing something'. I don't know what exactly, but I don't think it's a mez. I'm currently running a sin in dark charge, and it feels SO much better in PVP than my VG ever did with ion cylinder.

 

i play vanguard tank in group arenas and yes we are in a very bad position against this odd tank tunnel tactics with pyro pts and hybrid sorcs and other ranged dot classes, but this has nothing to do with passive mitigation (shield, absorb, defense) like you mentioned in the question in your previous post

 

guardian tanks have reflect against burst and can give your healer some time with a mezz, shadow tanks have resilence against burst and can give your healer some time with vanish, they can even use the warzone medpack 2x or even 3x per round

 

both can use a long mezz on the enemy tank and simultaneous a hard stun on a target without guard for very dangerous switches, something a pt tank can never setup on his own sadly- additional the pt tank has nothing to help his team mates in such a situation ( example: your are mezzed , the other team switchs target to your healer, mezz runs out, your healer is below 30%- guard and taunts will not save him) guardians have guardian leap, shadows have a knockback

 

maybe an additional stun is not the best idea, but we simply need more utility options for offense and defense in competitive arena matches

Edited March 16, 2014 by Luckyluzi

[Kooziejr]

i play vanguard tank in group arenas and yes we are in a very bad position against this odd tank tunnel tactics with pyro pts and hybrid sorcs and other ranged dot classes, but this has nothing to do with passive mitigation (shield, absorb, defense) like you mentioned in the question in your previous post

 

guardian tanks have reflect against burst and can give your healer some time with a mezz, shadow tanks have resilence against burst and can give your healer some time with vanish, they can even use the warzone medpack 2x or even 3x per round

 

both can use a long mezz on the enemy tank and simultaneous a hard stun on a target without guard for very dangerous switches, something a pt tank can never setup on his own sadly- additional the pt tank has nothing to help his team mates in such a situation ( example: your are mezzed , the other team switchs target to your healer, mezz runs out, your healer is below 30%- guard and taunts will not save him) guardians have guardian leap, shadows have a knockback

 

maybe an additional stun is not the best idea, but we simply need more utility options for offense and defense in competitive arena matches

 

I agree with this. It doesn't feel like there is much utility there. Sure Carbonise and oil slick are good but wow the CD.

[fire-breath]

Alltough I wouldn't mind better ammo on my vg tank you have to take in mind the following.

 

On my vg tank i ran a heavy shield spec. My augments were shield/power. In effect this had lowered my defense chance.

I furthermore realized that taking some extra dtps wasn't what would kill me. Those were high spike attacks.

 

My point is that you can choose between 2 very valid options. Either high defence with low procs and less dtps but more higher spikes or low defense chance with high procs, higher dtps and more frequent but lower spikes.

 

This might affect the answer of the devteam I fear.

 

What turns me abit down is that vg tanking offers a lower snapthreat with the requirement of using a defensive cooldown for more threat in the opening.

For the rest I can't think of other things since I don't do pvp or dps on him.

 

Edit: forgot one. The grapple could use more threat tbh. The skill suggests its for generating aggro since it's being classified as high threat. This might also be the solution to having more snapthreat.

Edited March 16, 2014 by fire-breath

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Did you ever think about making some of these useful suggestions before we submitted the questions rather than going on about JC?

 

eeh, no i didnt... Mainly because i wasnt playing PT/VG Tank for 4 hours straight with 2x exp active, i wasnt that experienced with the class. My VG Tank was a pre 2.0 character, and i had him in a semi hybrid where i went up to Energy Screens, but didnt take Energy Blast, mainly because at that point i wasnt too fond of Vanguards, and didnt really care about my build and stuff, so instead of Energy Blast, i took Gut. But now he's a full 36 point VG Tank, purely for PvP right now, my guild doesnt have enough Pub players to use him in raids, that and i have a PT Tank now. That's my preliminary experience with PT/VG Tank, pretty rough.

 

Step forward to now, earlier yesterday my PT tank was level 33, and for 4 hours yesterday I played him through dozens of Flashpoints and stuff, to level him all the way to 40, and during that time, that's when i started noticing the little things, like untill 40, i didnt have Heat Screens, and i kept looking at my hotbar and saying "Where's my Heat Screens?" That's what sparked most of the other ideas i had too. So, now i'm a bit more experienced with PT/VG Tanking and can say that, while it would be nice, JC is more than likely staying where it is. I have also found uses for HO in certain bosses, like the Jedi Boss in KDY, you can completely bypass his Force Shockwave attack if you have HO up, and HO's CD syncs perfectly with the time between Shockwaves. there are a few other uses, but i think that this wall of text is long enough...

[Kooziejr]

eeh, no i didnt... Mainly because i wasnt playing PT/VG Tank for 4 hours straight with 2x exp active, i wasnt that experienced with the class. My VG Tank was a pre 2.0 character, and i had him in a semi hybrid where i went up to Energy Screens, but didnt take Energy Blast, mainly because at that point i wasnt too fond of Vanguards, and didnt really care about my build and stuff, so instead of Energy Blast, i took Gut. But now he's a full 36 point VG Tank, purely for PvP right now, my guild doesnt have enough Pub players to use him in raids, that and i have a PT Tank now. That's my preliminary experience with PT/VG Tank, pretty rough.

 

Step forward to now, earlier yesterday my PT tank was level 33, and for 4 hours yesterday I played him through dozens of Flashpoints and stuff, to level him all the way to 40, and during that time, that's when i started noticing the little things, like untill 40, i didnt have Heat Screens, and i kept looking at my hotbar and saying "Where's my Heat Screens?" That's what sparked most of the other ideas i had too. So, now i'm a bit more experienced with PT/VG Tanking and can say that, while it would be nice, JC is more than likely staying where it is. I have also found uses for HO in certain bosses, like the Jedi Boss in KDY, you can completely bypass his Force Shockwave attack if you have HO up, and HO's CD syncs perfectly with the time between Shockwaves. there are a few other uses, but i think that this wall of text is long enough...

 

Every class in every spec has the same issue. You don't have your best move until you are at the top of the tree. PT tank is no different....