Cretinus Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) I'm having more and more WZs where the winner (my team or the other, doesn't really matter) has little dmg and hardly any kills, but huuuuuge heal and protection numbers. Sure, heal + protection is important, but PvP shouldn't be a heal + protection contest only. Dunno how to fix this, but then it's not me who runs the game, is it? It's BW. Edited March 9, 2014 by Cretinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkarabats Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Dmg, Kills, Heals, prot. really don't matter that much in pvp. Its just getting the objective. Sure they help, but really stopping the cap doesn't mean you have to kill them, Score the point in huttball, same thing. Getting the door, same. The only WZ that kills can matter is Hypergate. And even that can be balanced out by getting the orbs. Not saying that dmg, kills, and the like don't help, but I have many games where the other team had double digits, my team were in single digits and we won. I think people need to realize this. People get so caught up with I did xyz in "stat" but if you lost....you lost. Edited March 9, 2014 by nkarabats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sauerkraut Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Dmg, Kills, Heals, prot. really don't matter that much in pvp. Its just getting the objective. Sure they help, but really stopping the cap doesn't mean you have to kill them, Score the point in huttball, same thing. Getting the door, same. The only WZ that kills can matter is Hypergate. And even that can be balanced out by getting the orbs. Not saying that dmg, kills, and the like don't help, but I have many games where the other team had double digits, my team were in single digits and we won. I think people need to realize this. People get so caught up with I did xyz in "stat" but if you lost....you lost. And that's why SWTOR PvP is rather frustrating and no fun, more like a chore you have to do to get better gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCourier- Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Well, when smash gets nerfed, there will be more stalemate WZs than there are now. Smash, AP PT, and tab dotting are the ways to beat tanks guarding healers. Edited March 9, 2014 by TheCourier- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 In my opinion, a warzone where there are only healers and DPS (people having good survivability but with deaths occuring recurrently here and there) are what should actually be fights with tanks added to the mix... not fights with a one death occuring once every minute. I won't tell it loudly, but I think you can guess which role I'd blame for this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 Well, when smash gets nerfed, there will be more stalemate WZs than there are now. Smash, AP PT, and tab dotting are the ways to beat tanks guarding healers. Stalemates due to heal+guard are not a good justification to keep smash unnerfed. If heal+guard are a problem then it's heal+guard that need a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhradik Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) People who know/knew that they cant win any ranked wz/arena queuing in group full of tanks and heals to win at least normal wz, its easy , same situation was 1 year ago and 2 years ago... Edited March 9, 2014 by zhradik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusFTW Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) I think heal/prot is fine tbh.. ye sometimes reg wzs can give you ridiculous comps but whatever... the healing/tanking mechanic isnt so bad imo.. Edited March 9, 2014 by AngusFTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charunks Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 And that's why SWTOR PvP is rather frustrating and no fun, more like a chore you have to do to get better gear. Quoted for truth pure frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarrinMarshall Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Well, not to get into a brand new epic thread, but healing overall in the Warzones is over powered by itself when compared to DPS output. Throw in Guard on top along with some classes that are VERY advantaged and it's just retarded pretty much. Any class or role of classes that REQUIRE 2+ DPS or more vs. 1 healer to take them down is too much. Healing that puts out numbers that out heal the entire enemy teams DPS output is way too much... even if the DPS team is all Terri-bads. I'm all for the healing roles, hell, I'm rolling up a scoundrel healer as I type this. Healers should be important lynchpins in PVP but not any sides "WE WIN CAUSE WE HAVE A HEALER" button. Slightly biased perhaps because the Terri-bads that I get lumped with typically just ignore the healer anyways but still the numbers at the end of the warzone help paint the picture regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Another nerf tanks thread OP? Your the only person that ever posts these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raazmir Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 The real issue is that there are scads of dps who can't reach 200k damage even if they're left alone creating the illusion of OP heals and OP tanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaulois- Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Dmg, Kills, Heals, prot. really don't matter that much in pvp. Its just getting the objective. Sure they help, but really stopping the cap doesn't mean you have to kill them, Score the point in huttball, same thing. Getting the door, same. The only WZ that kills can matter is Hypergate. And even that can be balanced out by getting the orbs. Not saying that dmg, kills, and the like don't help, but I have many games where the other team had double digits, my team were in single digits and we won. I think people need to realize this. People get so caught up with I did xyz in "stat" but if you lost....you lost. I agree with this, and it would be cool for BW to implement a "Free For All" WZ, to satisfy the, "I did xyz dmg, check it out" threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaulois- Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 The real issue is that there are scads of dps who can't reach 200k damage even if they're left alone creating the illusion of OP heals and OP tanking. See above post. If you're so concern of the lack of dmg, whichever class you play, I'd suggest checking out the forum on how to improve your dmg in WZs. Why do most always blame everything else but themselves, when things don't turn out as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Why do most always blame everything else but themselves, when things don't turn out as expected. It's called Cognitive Dissonance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 Another nerf tanks thread OP? Your the only person that ever posts these things. That's a TERRIFIC contribution! Thanks a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Nerf dps who struggle to break 100k... err.. I mean... buff bads!! Burst DPS buffs + stat inflation as 2.0 progresses has resulted in an extremely low TTK (ffs, most dps classes can do close to 1/3 of someone's health pool in one hit). What you're really seeing is the result of experienced players/teams leaving the game and an influx of new players who have not mastered the basic concepts needed to cut through healer/tanks (or even the basics of their class... basic ability spam should put you above 100k damage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turretboy Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 That's a TERRIFIC contribution! Thanks a lot! you need to L2P if you're complaining about tanks ... smh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I'll be inclined to agree with you when I see every dps get at least 350k dps in a wz (except huttball of course). For now, most wzs I see the top 2-3 carrying the team, 1 person node guarding, 1-2 healers and 3-5 useless sacks who can barely get 100k and mostly get in the way. Show me an example of a team where the top 2-3 have 400-600k, bottom 3-4 have around 300k+ and I don't think there are any tanks/healers alive who can survive their burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeniusX Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Healers are not the problem in the game, its the tanks. the problem imo is that its just to easy. You just have to stay close to your healer. taunt now and then when they burst, synergize your millions of stuns and roots when healer gets in trouble = healer heals to full and repeat.. This is the game at current state. and even 3 DD on that combo will struggle for, but it doesnt stop there; lets add a cross healer just to make it really interesting. I am ofc talking about regs here tho.. but just airing out my frustration. Ofc i could air out my frustration of all the bad dps out there but hey, thats for another thread. Tanks are just too good imo, the healer + tank combo makes even the mediocre pvp'ers out there be a great asset to the team in comparison to the same skill level players dps. but i guess thats how it should be ?.. . i dunno.. just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashir Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Er, what? It's true that I can't speak for ranked yet, but I find the current PvP dynamic in the second tier bracket to be pretty fantastic. A lot comes down to player gear and skill, though, at least in that bracket. I know it's cliché to say so but most of the complaints I've seen about game mechanics during those WZs were coming from players who didn't know what they were doing. Yes, tank + healer is a tough nut to crack, but you do realize how much DPS those two players are giving up to help the survivability of themselves and the team, right? Does something fundamentally change in 55/ranked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashir Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Healers are not the problem in the game, its the tanks. the problem imo is that its just to easy. You just have to stay close to your healer. taunt now and then when they burst, synergize your millions of stuns and roots when healer gets in trouble = healer heals to full and repeat.. This is the game at current state. and even 3 DD on that combo will struggle for, but it doesnt stop there; lets add a cross healer just to make it really interesting. I am ofc talking about regs here tho.. but just airing out my frustration. Ofc i could air out my frustration of all the bad dps out there but hey, thats for another thread. Tanks are just too good imo, the healer + tank combo makes even the mediocre pvp'ers out there be a great asset to the team in comparison to the same skill level players dps. but i guess thats how it should be ?.. . i dunno.. just my thoughts. Double post, but I just want to point out that it's never a good idea to diminish a class someone has learned to play strictly because other people haven't learned to play their own classes. A good pair of DPS or DPS + healer combo is an amazing asset to the team if they have a clue what they are doing. And if they don't, you should be comparing them to a tank that doesn't know how to guard or taunt properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeniusX Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Double post, but I just want to point out that it's never a good idea to diminish a class someone has learned to play strictly because other people haven't learned to play their own classes. A good pair of DPS or DPS + healer combo is an amazing asset to the team if they have a clue what they are doing. And if they don't, you should be comparing them to a tank that doesn't know how to guard or taunt properly. first off, not to be rude or anything. what ?! what are u even on about ? As i somewhat (maybe not) clearly said; tank and healer combo is too good. much better then any other combo: DPS+DPS, DPS+Healer etc etc. I am not dismissing good players. cause ofc u need good dps, and its important to have a good composition in regs. you can't have only tanks and heals. My point however was that mediocre players that are tank+healer are better for me to have in the team than 2 stupid stealths that cant off node capp or do their mediocre dps where it counts (read: where it counts). Frankly, if a tank doesnt know how to guard and taunt then he is a noob and i am not talking about noobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeniusX Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Er, what? It's true that I can't speak for ranked yet, but I find the current PvP dynamic in the second tier bracket to be pretty fantastic. A lot comes down to player gear and skill, though, at least in that bracket. I know it's cliché to say so but most of the complaints I've seen about game mechanics during those WZs were coming from players who didn't know what they were doing. Yes, tank + healer is a tough nut to crack, but you do realize how much DPS those two players are giving up to help the survivability of themselves and the team, right? Does something fundamentally change in 55/ranked? well, i see now that you don't even play at 55, you do know that this game is balanced at 55 right ? talking about pre 55 WZ is not even any point what-so-ever my friend. It's just there, for leveling and some extra fun. usually filled with newbies and grouped friends leveling alts together tipping the balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Er, what? It's true that I can't speak for ranked yet, but I find the current PvP dynamic in the second tier bracket to be pretty fantastic. A lot comes down to player gear and skill, though, at least in that bracket. I know it's cliché to say so but most of the complaints I've seen about game mechanics during those WZs were coming from players who didn't know what they were doing. Yes, tank + healer is a tough nut to crack, but you do realize how much DPS those two players are giving up to help the survivability of themselves and the team, right? Does something fundamentally change in 55/ranked? It is more balanced pre-55 because gear is so much less of an issue. I enjoy lowbies a lot more than 55s honestly because there is no gear discrepency and the abilities aren't as OP as they are in 55. In 55 you need decent gear and augments. But you always see people coming in with 1000 expertise/no augments and wonder why they can't kill a fully geared, fully augmented tank/healer combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts