How do you take down a good gunship pilot with a scout?

[Docmal]

I am a decent pilot, and have mastered every ship except a gunship. Prior to 2.6 I was very successful killing gunships on my flashfire if I had to.

 

I would sneak up from their flank, pop bypass, power to guns and blaster overcharge then let loose with my burst lasers from about 2k meters. I would begin a missle lock right after the first shot and let loose a cluster missile when it was ready. This finished off gunships most of the time. However, If I didn't get him I could chase him down and hit another cluster missile and he would be gone.

 

It seems like now this only works on inexperienced gunship pilots. The experienced gunship will survive my burst, pop deflection and then barrel roll away. Barrel roll will effectively make it a long chase to take him down since its CD is short.

 

At that point I need to make a decision, risk abandoning the chase and getting a railshot up my arse or chasing him down forever or until his backup arrives.

 

Just wondering if there is an effective strategy to down a gunship when you have the element of surprise in a flashfire.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Docmal

[Kuciwalker]

You know that 2.6 actually nerfed gunships' defensive capacity, right? The nerf to evasion far outweighs the nerf to bypass. What you are observing has to be that some of the gunships on your server got smarter.

 

I don't know the answer to your question, though, because there are only 2, maybe 3 gunships on my server that can consistently evade even top scouts and I've never fought them in a scout before.

 

I do know that I very rarely die in 1v1; the more common result is just that I am neutralized as a threat because I can't take a break from evading to actually set up shots on the enemy. I think this ought to be an acceptable result; do you think you would be able to kill a top scout that was focused exclusively on survival and wasn't attacking at all?

Edited March 2, 2014 by Kuciwalker

[Ramalina]

Well if you want to do gunship hunting on a regular basis:

 

Make sure you have barrel roll as an engine component.

Make sure your fuel supply is almost full when you open fire.

A ship built for speed and endurance helps.

Rocket pods rather than cluster missiles help.

 

If you get them to run, either chase them down to finish the kill, or break off and use LOS behind obstacle to get out of range (and learn how to judge the situation well enough so that you can make it while you still have enough fuel to pull it off).

 

If you have a pure dogfighting build on a Flashfire, then pursuing a gunship after a failed ambush just isn't really a good idea unless you have help from a ship with better long range endurance. Run the other way and get behind cover instead, because it's a pretty sure thing that the gunship pilot is focused on you at that point.

[Ramalina]

I don't know the answer to your question, though, because there are only 2, maybe 3 gunships on my server that can consistently evade even top scouts and I've never fought them in a scout before.

 

The number seems to be increasing. At this point I generally don't bother chasing if I'm in a strike, even if I'm in my Pike which is built around being able to run. The novadive can still outrun them though.

 

I've also heard rumors that the mobility benefits of barrel roll may be in for a nerf in future patches. So chasing a gunship up and down the full length of the map 3-4 times may fade into a historical GSF oddity in the foreseeable future.

[Kuciwalker]

The number seems to be increasing. At this point I generally don't bother chasing if I'm in a strike, even if I'm in my Pike which is built around being able to run. The novadive can still outrun them though.

 

I don't really see this so much as I see more instances of gunships providing overlapping fields of fire (especially concentrated near spawn points, even now that turrets are removed) and so they just don't have to run that far to reach relative safety. Imps seem to do this a lot. I'm not terribly offended by this tactic, although if they are using it too effectively I will swap to my gunship to break them up. (That's not a case of "gunships are OP" IMO, it's a case of "this enemy tactic is ideally countered by gunships if you are pugging".)

 

Aside: my Flashfire is built for pure long-range endurance; barrel roll (with +10% speed) + regen thrusters + C2/N2.

 

I've also heard rumors that the mobility benefits of barrel roll may be in for a nerf in future patches. So chasing a gunship up and down the full length of the map 3-4 times may fade into a historical GSF oddity in the foreseeable future.

 

I hope that change doesn't go through, or is at least diminished (20s CD on BR is too long; I could see 15s). BR's cooldown is a far more interesting mobility mechanic than engine power / booster, especially for a gunship, and produces some fun flying. Additionally, increasing the CD on BR won't really help situations where gunships just have nearby safe regions.

 

If you really wanted to nerf gunship mobility, I would do something to their booster instead. Yes, this would make them even more reliant on BR, but BR is just intrinsically more fun anyway than the other engine components so I don't see this as a big loss. Maybe as compensation give rotational thrusters a booster buff.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Kuciwalker

[SwiftDuck]

It takes a little longer to kill but if you set your scout up with booster overcharge and speed thrusters you can effectively negate their running away tactics and it also serves to counter those ion rail gun shots that take all your engine power away.

[jedimessiah]

Is that you Rogue-One?!? If it is you, don't sweat it, you're a really good pilot. Rogue-One chases me in my Gunship all the time but last night he seemed to lose heart and gave up a few times, that's why I ask.

 

I can't help you with your scout as I don't really fly one but as someone who primarily flies a Gunship I can give you some insight into what I do. When I'm in snipe mode, every 5 seconds or so I hit my key bind for "target nearest enemy", when it switches from the person I'm zoomed in on to another target I look at that pilot's target of target and range. If I see my name and he's closing in I immediately bug out and go for some allies or a friendly satellite(All the while zig zagging and trying to break LOS). So it's pretty rare that someone is able to sneak up on me.

 

But I do believe the reason a "good" Gunshsip pilot is hard to kill though is because of situational awareness, as described above, and Barrel Roll. The cooldown on BR is way too short and it requires to little engine power. The only way to counter it is to run me down until I'm absolutely exhausted, which can take awhile and deny you some easier kills or hit me with an ion weapon which I'm not sure if a scout has one or not.

 

So the best way to kill me is to actually not, be sneaky. If you see a Gunship and you know he's a good pilot go right at him full burn. Don't give me a chance to realize you're coming. Or bring friends with Ion weapons. Hope some of that helps.

[Slivovidze]

My answer to everything is NovaDive with speed Thrusters and speed upgrade on Barrel Roll, with Rocket Pods and Targetting Telemetry and Concentrated Fire, using Engine Power Converter as a shield.

 

Gunships are ususally my target number one so I can quite confidently say that I can kill them, even the better and more evasive ones.

 

Same as you, I start by sneaking up on them. Then, the rest, depends:

- If I am "fresh from spawn" (hmm, I could abbreviate that as FFS), then I pop both TT and CF and empty everything I have from 2k-3k. Preferable position is behing the gunship. He usually dies because of all the 75% crits. Both these cooldowns are really ridiculous damage when activated together.

- If I am not FFS and am missing rockets or CF (TT has really fast cooldown so I usually got that ready), I do pretty much the same with whatever I have. However, only the bad gunshippers die to this, the rest usually gets away.

- You can see if they have you targetted. If yes, I usually try to just follow them, staying up to 10k behind, while they boost around, use barrel rolls and everything. They tend to run out of engine power quite fast. If they don't have me targetted, I just fly behind them and wait until they scope in again.

- As long as the GS is running, you are helping your team, he can't be sniping them. Bad thing he is still wasting your time, but whatever. They tend to run across the areas on the edge of battle, where other gunsips camp, so you can shoot, or even kill, some other gunships while chasing one.

- It is a game of deception, now when we see who our target has targetted. If you see that he has you targetted, targetting and engaging someone else might lure them into stopping and trying to deal with you. You have to keep your eyes open and finish the original gunship fast, if he does that.

- If you see a pilot who you know is good, don't just open fire. Time your engagement with his shots, if you start firing when he starts charging, you can possibly land more hits - because he is disturbed by aiming and possibly is tunnel visioned on a kill. If you start shooting him when he just fired, he will probably notice and immediately start his evading maneuvers.

- For gunship hunting, Pods are way better than Clusters. Nowadays gunships tend to have Barrel Roll, so they will evade your Clusters. Of course, Clusters hit harder, but a wave of 3 or even more Pods will sure beat them, especially because you will hit them.

- Choose the DoT upgrade on your rockets. Stopping shield regen may come in handy if you manage to land a shot or two during the pursuit.

- Always be on lookout and always be aware where you are, and in what general area enemy gunships are.

- If you are shot by a gunship while doing other stuff, immediately barrel roll and boost in their direction. Don't engage, don't shoot, just get behind them. I carry my Engine Power Converter for cases when they have Ion Railgun. Usually they don't get second shot because with Barrel Roll and a bit boost you can cover 10-15k in a second or two, tops. Then, the pursuit part begins.

- Generally, if you are FFS with a loadout similar to mine, you should focus on gunship hunting as you probably will kill one. If you are close to death, with no rockets, half shields and cooldowns running, you can still help a ton if you distract the good enemy gunshipper. He can't really kill you himself unless you do some silly thing, like letting him face you. And if his friends try to clear you, well, you 1) relieved the pressure elsewhere, and 2) if they manage to kill you, you will be FFS and can finish that gunship.

 

Also, I am not quite sure if Bursts are the best for gunship hunting. I mean, of course, they are best lasers overally at close ranged turn fights. But with gunship, you often aren't that close range and you aren't in turning fight. For the flank part, I think that using Quads on your Flashfire might be better. I use Light lasers (Damage Capacitor). The deal is to land as many hits as possible, and if the gunship rolls away after two bursts of your BLC, I think that faster firing Lights might get close, damage-wise. Not sure about Quads as I haven't tried them. Maybe RF lasers would even be the best here, maybe even with Frequency Capacitor. Dunno though, just thinking loudly here.

[Delta_V]

Is that you Rogue-One?!? If it is you, don't sweat it, you're a really good pilot. Rogue-One chases me in my Gunship all the time but last night he seemed to lose heart and gave up a few times, that's why I ask.

 

I can't help you with your scout as I don't really fly one but as someone who primarily flies a Gunship I can give you some insight into what I do. When I'm in snipe mode, every 5 seconds or so I hit my key bind for "target nearest enemy", when it switches from the person I'm zoomed in on to another target I look at that pilot's target of target and range. If I see my name and he's closing in I immediately bug out and go for some allies or a friendly satellite(All the while zig zagging and trying to break LOS). So it's pretty rare that someone is able to sneak up on me.

 

But I do believe the reason a "good" Gunshsip pilot is hard to kill though is because of situational awareness, as described above, and Barrel Roll. The cooldown on BR is way too short and it requires to little engine power. The only way to counter it is to run me down until I'm absolutely exhausted, which can take awhile and deny you some easier kills or hit me with an ion weapon which I'm not sure if a scout has one or not.

 

So the best way to kill me is to actually not, be sneaky. If you see a Gunship and you know he's a good pilot go right at him full burn. Don't give me a chance to realize you're coming. Or bring friends with Ion weapons. Hope some of that helps.

 

Yeah, this is what separates the good gunship pilots from all the rest - most lack anything resembling situational awareness. I just got out of a TDM where the enemy team had a bunch of gunships, and I spent the entire match shredding them... in a freaking Starguard. I just kept boosting in, opening up with Ion Cannons until their shields dropped, and firing a Cluster Missile as I switched to Quads to finish them off. The handful of times they barrel rolled away, I was able to pop my barrel roll and chase them down. *Good* gunship pilots never let me get close enough for Ion Cannons, and if they do, they barrel roll away before I can damage their hulls. Gunship pilots with good situational awareness are insanely difficult to bring down, but fortunately, most seem to lack that trait.

 

edit: I'll emphasize this: against good gunship pilots, once you've identified them, if you think you've got the drop on them, do *not* keep them targeted as you close the distance. Good gunships will be frequently Tab-targeting to keep an eye out for trouble; as you get closer, if they Tab-target you, and see that you have *them* targeted, they're going to be ready to get the hell out of Dodge before you can do anything.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Delta_V

[Kuciwalker]

I would say if you bug out the moment someone targets you or you start taking damage then you are playing too conservatively. A gunship can survive anywhere from 1.5 to 3 seconds of sustained fire. That is a long time and can let you get an additional shot off. If you know your ship well and have a good sense of your incoming damage you can bug out at the last moment.

 

I run max shield strength - around 1830 I think - for exactly this reason. (Obviously I also run distortion which reduces shield strength but that's separate.)

[Delta_V]

I would say if you bug out the moment someone targets you or you start taking damage then you are playing too conservatively. A gunship can survive anywhere from 1.5 to 3 seconds of sustained fire. That is a long time and can let you get an additional shot off. If you know your ship well and have a good sense of your incoming damage you can bug out at the last moment.

 

I run max shield strength - around 1830 I think - for exactly this reason. (Obviously I also run distortion which reduces shield strength but that's separate.)

 

Yeah, but a good pilot will still be *ready* to bug out as they start taking damage, even if they don't react right away, as opposed to most, who are completely oblivious to the threat until their shields fail and their hull starts taking damage.

[Armonddd]

I would say if you bug out the moment someone targets you or you start taking damage then you are playing too conservatively. A gunship can survive anywhere from 1.5 to 3 seconds of sustained fire. That is a long time and can let you get an additional shot off. If you know your ship well and have a good sense of your incoming damage you can bug out at the last moment.

 

I run max shield strength - around 1830 I think - for exactly this reason. (Obviously I also run distortion which reduces shield strength but that's separate.)

 

I can kill a gunship in 1.125 seconds with no crits, and distortion field is a huge negative (-30%).

[-Streven-]

Fully upgraded emp burst will kill engine ability for ten seconds. I use that with sabo probe. To be honest its a gimmicky build but satisfying when I get kills from it. If emp burst had a better range and shorter cooldown it would be worthwhile but as is you give up too much in other componenets to run this.

 

I really don't see single gunships as a problem but when you have more than three and they cover each other the only tactic that seems to work is bring more gunships. A strategy that imo blows.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

Well I will say that locking missiles on seems to be counter productive to gunship hunting. Against both good and bad GS pilots I've noticed that it just gives them the heads up that they're under fire. The good ones also seem to use the lock on tone to judge exactly when they should bug out. I've found much more success when I don't lock on with missiles as it doesn't give them a counter down timer to when they should bug out.

 

Something I've noticed in both my striker and scout is that if you wait until you see the charging railgun energy cloud to attack then usually the GS pilot is focusing more on lining up their shot which seems to lower the situational awareness of most pilots.

[bmharrison]

I'm facing the same situation- GSs are the bane of my flashfire's existence. It's bad enough that I still manage to get one-shotted from full shields/health on my mastered scout, but if I do survive long enough to give chase, I never seem to get there fast enough or fly zig-zaggy enough to not get blown up by the second shot. My only hope is to try to find something to hide behind long enough to recover and hope one of the GS's 4 or 5 GS friends isn't waiting for me around the next rock.

 

I'm making a guess here that most scouts are going with barrel roll over koligran (sp?) turn. The K turn seemed ideal for dogfighting (which I assumed was what the flashfire/sting was originally built to do), but a sustained dogfight seems unlikely in the current state of the game- at least when I play- where a minimum of 4 gunships (and sometimes up to 7 or 8) populate the battlefield. Barrel roll seems like the logical choice to close distance quickly and possibly not get blown to bits (though I have indeed been nailed by a rail gun shot mid-roll from players, not just drones).

 

I've also begun leveling up lightweight armor, as my maxed-out reinforced armor doesn't seem to be doing anything for me. If I can still be one-shotted, then obviously the extra health isn't enough, so I'm hoping that a little extra evasion might keep me from getting hit.

 

Other than that, I'm just mostly frustrated with Gunships. I don't even like playing them- I want to FLY my ship, not park it. I've even considered taking it out of my rotation entirely, but I recognize the necessity of having at least one or two GSs on the field to provide cover-fire for the sfs, scouts, and bombers, and if I see no one else flying them (or perhaps not even owning one) I'll fly it for the good of the team. Of course, I'll likely get blown up by a skilled scout who is much better at this whole thing than I am

[DEATHICIDE]

For situations where you are both in open space and targeting each other:

 

Always approach on a wider angle with full boost.

Taking advantage of a gunship's tracking penalty and poor rate of turning is how you want to close the gap.

 

When the gunship barrel rolls, you want to be ready with your own, but wait briefly on it.

 

The goal here is to boost towards the gs's new position in a straight line while timing your barrel roll so that when you come out of it you are in weapons range, and the gunship is now part way through it's attempt to turn and face you.

 

Hit the brakes and open fire from here, and you kill it outright if your DPS got enough of a window, or else it then becomes a simple boosting match, which you will win, and can just finish the job while tailing the gunship before it can use another barrel roll.

 

Goals are pretty much to:

Exploit the tracking penalty

Exploit the slow turning rate

Exploit the engine ability cool down

 

This works nearly just as well with a ship that is not equipped for speed, providing it has concussion missile or a torpedo to use while their engine ability is on cool down.

 

Aside from any maneuver, the real Achilles heel for any sniper is unpredictability.

Don't attack a gunship with a set strategy, mix it up, because if they start to figure you out, they will quickly gain the upper hand.

 

When I am caught in the open without any cover, a trick that I do is to imagine a cone coming out of the front of the gunship to represent it's scope, then I try to stay within it's perimeter as much as I can, taking advantage of that tracking penalty while closing distance, crossing it's line of sight while curving around it's center, rather than zig-zagging through it.

[Zoom_VI]

I can kill a gunship in 1.125 seconds with no crits, and distortion field is a huge negative (-30%).

 

-20% read your patch notes

[Armonddd]

-20% read your patch notes

 

herp derp

 

did they ever update the tooltips to... actually update

[Zoom_VI]

herp derp

 

did they ever update the tooltips to... actually update

 

What do you mean mine all say -20%

[Gavin_Kelvar]

For situations where you are both in open space and targeting each other:

 

Always approach on a wider angle with full boost.

Taking advantage of a gunship's tracking penalty and poor rate of turning is how you want to close the gap..

 

Just to add to this I've also found that making a manual barrel roll as you close greatly improves the odds of reaching them without taking fire in the event that you're forced to close from the front. As far as I can tell the manual barrel roll really screws with their tracking penalties by keeping you at the edge of their firing arc.

[Armonddd]

What do you mean mine all say -20%

 

From the ship screen, shield power per arc did not update to reflect the -30%

[Kuciwalker]

I can kill a gunship in 1.125 seconds with no crits, and distortion field is a huge negative (-30%).

 

1. Distortion field is only -20% now.
   
2. The malus from dfield stacks additively with the bonus from the reactor and companion, which makes those bonuses relatively better once you've already taken dfield (they are a bigger percentage increase in your shields, effectively).
   
3. That's also assuming no misses. I have 23% evasion before popping distortion field.
   
4. Finally, yes, there are cases where a player might kill me in less than 1.5s. Which is why I actually pay attention to my health rather than blithely assume I'm good for a fixed amount of time. If you get me once, fine, now I know that there is a pilot in the match who can do that and will adjust accordingly.
   

[Armonddd]

Note to self, don't pop cooldowns the first time I kill Kuci.

 

(also note to self figure out how to kill kuci cross server)

[The_Raven_Lord]

Someone I've asked this question to gave me the suggestion of loading up Thermite Torpedo on a Blackbolt and using it to spook the Gunship into using it's defenses up, and then they would chase them down and kill them with blasters.

 

Most of the time they would barrel roll closer to the attacking scout to evade the missile lock thus giving them a bigger engine power advantage.

 

I'm not sure I could make this work if I tried. But the theory is sound. Besides, the next bomber I come across will make me miss my rocket pods.

[TheRampage]

you fly to them under 4k and blast them. If u dont kill them instantly and they manage to roll away you follow them and finish them. There is no way gs will kill you if you spot him first. you need to fly with your eye closed to die then.