Now that smash is getting nerfed

[Delta_V]

it's pretty much the same. Full Singularity is +100% damage, Focus/Rage Force crit is +99%. But losing both renders Smash a pretty much gimped single target spec.

 

And yes, I'm somewhat concerned about guarded healers rising in prominence, now that their main counter is destroyed. But then again, Sabo/Engi provides arseloads of aggro (albeit not as convenient as Smash), and AP/Tactics isn't too bad, even without Ion Cell.

 

I think leaving the autocrit and making singularity primary-target only would be better than the other way around, because otherwise, it would still have a chance to crit on the other targets, in which case it would do just as much damage. Making singularity the single-target part would mean that it would *never* hit other targets as hard.

[Helig]

I think leaving the autocrit and making singularity primary-target only would be better than the other way around, because otherwise, it would still have a chance to crit on the other targets, in which case it would do just as much damage. Making singularity the single-target part would mean that it would *never* hit other targets as hard.

Better for whom?

 

But yes. I did kind of forget about innate crit chance. 7 AM and not enough coffee in my system

[mcpark]

They already made up their minds well before all this came down smashers we simply weren't invited to the dance. Edited February 17, 2014 by mcpark

[Gondolindhrim]

I think leaving the autocrit and making singularity primary-target only would be better than the other way around, because otherwise, it would still have a chance to crit on the other targets, in which case it would do just as much damage. Making singularity the single-target part would mean that it would *never* hit other targets as hard.

The advantage of keeping Singularity/Shockwave as a self-buff is that the auto-crit debuff could be attached to Zealous Leap/Obliterate. This way, Sweep/Smash wouldn't require a target.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Gondolindhrim

[Vodrin]

Reading this makes me think you do not play this spec on a daily basis. Allow me to re-iterate the issue with watchman and say it with me : Ramp up time. Watchman damage is fine, setting up stacks of merciless is not. In the current state of PVP where burst damage is king, watchman has no place. Bottom line : watchman is incompatible with pvp and by the time you get 4 merciless stacks and use them regularly, the wz is over.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this. If valorous call and it's mirror both granted full Juyo and merciless stacks the spec would be much more viable. It may even need something with a shorter cooldown to fullfill that function, but this would be a great way to start.

[Ybini]

you even read bro?

 

No just being pissy my orbital got nerfed.

[Delta_V]

The advantage of keeping Singularity/Shockwave as a self-buff is that the auto-crit debuff could be attached to Zealous Leap/Obliterate. This way, Sweep/Smash wouldn't require a target.

 

True, although they could make the Singularity stacks a debuff on the target as well, which would have the same effect. But yeah, requiring a target for Sweep will be a huge disadvantage against stealthers that affects *all* Knight/Warrior specs.

[Vodrin]

True, although they could make the Singularity stacks a debuff on the target as well, which would have the same effect. But yeah, requiring a target for Sweep will be a huge disadvantage against stealthers that affects *all* Knight/Warrior specs.

 

The one issue with making those stacks a debuff is having an enterprising Vengeance of immortal player come along and force sweep your target burning the buff without auto crit, or burning auto crit without singularity. I can see that potentially causing a lot of rage and QQ.

[Ren_simp]

After some testing with some guild mates we worked out that in full min maxed obroan

The sweeps will hit for around 2.3k on everyone but the main target

So potentially 10k crit on main target and 2k on anyone else in range so around 18k damage from 1hit on 5players

One question that arises is will sweep be treated as a single target ability as there's a few classes with aoe damage

Reduction and focus main attack being reduced should not suffer further through passive aoe damage reduction talents.

[Tevzz]

After some testing with some guild mates we worked out that in full min maxed obroan

The sweeps will hit for around 2.3k on everyone but the main target

So potentially 10k crit on main target and 2k on anyone else in range so around 18k damage from 1hit on 5players

One question that arises is will sweep be treated as a single target ability as there's a few classes with aoe damage

Reduction and focus main attack being reduced should not suffer further through passive aoe damage reduction talents.

 

It will still count as AoE since it deals AoE dmg...I doubt bioware will even think about what you mentioned, which is why I wrote this in a previous thread:

 

Problem is that now everybody and their mother who has a 30% dmg reduction for AoE's will be able to face tank Rage since Smash, despite becoming pretty much single target counts as an AoE. And since their single target dmg is crappy, only decent hits are crits, but everybody knows that Power/Surge is the way to go. If you get crit to have better single target sustained dmg, you ditch dmg off Smash...a simple fix was to tweak the dmg bonus given by Shockwave/Singularity stacks and change that ridiculous 100% for 3 stacks to something like 30-45%.

 

And it seems like a much better solution than completely changing the way smash spec performed. It's supposed to put AoE pressure so that people don't just stack for heals, making it a single target burst spec IS NOT the solution, reducing it's AoE burst to more manageable amounts is, because it keeps the spec the same, and that's the point of balancing. It isn't to change the feeling of a spec completely, that's called redesigning, which isn't what rebalancing is about.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Tevzz

[TheCourier-]

An acknowledgement from a Bioware employee about annihilation spec underperforming would be nice, since most PVEers, and most PVPers know that annihilation spec is underperforming.

 

For PVE, the parses aren't lying about carnage spec being better than annihilation spec, and for PVP, the sheer lack of ranked teams using annihilation spec says a lot about the spec, and the sheer lack of annihilation marauders in WZs says a lot about the spec. Annihilation spec and madness assassin are usually considered to be two of the worst, if not the worst, specs in SWTOR for PVP.

Edited February 18, 2014 by TheCourier-

[Glower]

Buff annihilation!

[Gondolindhrim]

True, although they could make the Singularity stacks a debuff on the target as well, which would have the same effect.

That would work for Force Exhaustion/Crush, but Zen/Berserk and Combat Focus/Enrage requiring a target wouldn't be much better.

[IInox]

why do u need a buff? you have 3 specs dps, hold focus for pvp, others for pve (where they are at the top parsing).

Focus needed a nerf and seems balanced, you still have your single target dmg, focus is not dead lol, still one of the best dps spec for pvp. Why do u need to cry at each patch?

[Savej]

After some testing with some guild mates we worked out that in full min maxed obroan

The sweeps will hit for around 2.3k on everyone but the main target

So potentially 10k crit on main target and 2k on anyone else in range so around 18k damage from 1hit on 5players

One question that arises is will sweep be treated as a single target ability as there's a few classes with aoe damage

Reduction and focus main attack being reduced should not suffer further through passive aoe damage reduction talents.

 

So... a carnage mara surrounded by 5 enemies can do more aoe than a smasher in 2.7 (gore + smash + sweeping slash will do more aoe than a smasher doing smash + sweeping slash) ;> But the smasher will get the big single target crit.

[Raynezazki]

What carnage marauder is seriously wasting gore on smash.

[TheCourier-]

why do u need a buff? you have 3 specs dps, hold focus for pvp, others for pve (where they are at the top parsing).

Focus needed a nerf and seems balanced, you still have your single target dmg, focus is not dead lol, still one of the best dps spec for pvp. Why do u need to cry at each patch?

 

Marauder is not in the top 3 parsing classes. Concealment operative, pyro merc, and vengeance juggernaut all parse higher than marauder (excluding dotsmash). Marauder's sustained DPS spec does less damage than it's burst spec. Annihilation spec has been a joke for PVP ever since patch 1.5.

 

Rage spec is dead. It's single target DPS is less than carnage spec and pyro PT, and both of those specs burst better than rage spec does.

[Savej]

What carnage marauder is seriously wasting gore on smash.

 

You're only touching on one of the points. But if I was in the middle of 5 ppl I would be thinking about it (ravage doesn't work in the middle of 5 ppl, what's left?) But the actual points:

#1: smash will no longer be the best aoe spec in 2.7.

#2: aoe isn't really that good.

#3: smash will be a waste of a tree.

[Raynezazki]

You're only touching on one of the points. But if I was in the middle of 5 ppl I would be thinking about it (ravage doesn't work in the middle of 5 ppl, what's left?) But the actual points:

#1: smash will no longer be the best aoe spec in 2.7.

#2: aoe isn't really that good.

#3: smash will be a waste of a tree.

 

1. Doesn't bother me in the least. My maras were always carnage my juggs always veng.

 

2. It was *too* good. That's why it had to be nerfed in the first place. I hated feeling like I was gimping myself by going Veng. BW did go over the top with it true.

 

3. Same issue as 1 really.

 

I fully admit though to simply loathing the spec. So completely bias I am. XD

Edited February 19, 2014 by Raynezazki

[mcpark]

why do u need a buff? you have 3 specs dps, hold focus for pvp, others for pve (where they are at the top parsing).

Focus needed a nerf and seems balanced, you still have your single target dmg, focus is not dead lol, still one of the best dps spec for pvp. Why do u need to cry at each patch?

 

Because this class gets nerfed in one way or another every patch.The problem is that focus was op for so long they got lazy and never thought if we improved the other specs maybe they would use them instead so you get this.

[Savej]

1. Doesn't bother me in the least. My maras were always carnage my juggs always veng.

 

2. It was *too* good. That's why it had to be nerfed in the first place. I hated feeling like I was gimping myself by going Veng. BW did go over the top with it true.

 

3. Same issue as 1 really.

 

I fully admit though to simply loathing the spec. So completely bias I am. XD

 

show me the jugg smashers tearing up the leaderboards? What makes you say the spec was "too good"? As far as I can tell the only reason it is getting nerfed is because of uninformed whiners (of which there are many).

[Dasgruberg]

Having played Smash from 1.1-2.3 on my main, i completly agree with these nerfs. Its an OP , noskill boring spec, and playing vengance/Anni/carnage or tank is the way to go. For my fellow jugs, learn to play vengance and have a lot more fun

[SajPl]

 

show me the jugg smashers tearing up the leaderboards? What makes you say the spec was "too good"? As far as I can tell the only reason it is getting nerfed is because of uninformed whiners (of which there are many).

 

The thing that made smash op was sentinel defensive cooldowns, you guardians just got caught in the crossfire, but hey DEAL WITH IT. Just as commando pyros had to deal with the nerf because pyro vanguards were supposedly op.

[Evanouss]

Watchman/Annhi pre nerf heal allowed us to live long enough to see our Merciless stacks come to full power, bring back the pre nerf heals and this spec is fixed....other classes are buffed enough to deal with the pre nerf heals now, the level of Burst all around is higher then it was back then.

[TheCourier-]

If annihilation spec does not get buffed, then marauder will have only 1 viable spec post patch 2.7. A Bioware post on this thread would be very nice.