Bombers have ruined everthing that was GSF!!

[wingzerokia]

Hmm i must be a ****** pilot ..

 

but on my hand it doesn't matter if i fly a Scout or a Strike craft.

 

I shot till my energy is empty and even with 90% hits he often has still shields left. If i also get my missiles to hit him i can scratch his paint. Meanwhile i got slaughter by a wave of drones and/or mines.

 

In my scout i quite often simply exlode with the nice text that a railgun drone killed me. (Even in full afterburn)

 

in my last 20 games (or so) the top was always a bomber and even novice bombers nearly always get 10+ medals. Sometimes the best is a Sting but that's only happening if the game is extremely unbalanced and he can farm the newbies.

 

That's the thing, 'Bombers' if you can really call them that, the are more like area denial craft, are meant to be a counter to scouts, all of the bombers strengths are the weakness of the scouts (namely shields and hull). To fight them effectively, you really shouldn't be trying to hump their exhaust ports.

 

Scouts are better for fighting other scouts, scouting a location for the heavies to roll in to, being a picket ship for a squadron moving in, and keeping gunships occupied and unable to line up shots on the heavies.

 

The 'Bombers' are the heavies, they are meant to lock down an area, and soak up punishment.

 

The Gunship is meant for taking out the heavies from outside of the engagement sphere of the heavies, as well as provide long range fire support.

 

The Strike fighter is meant to be able to do a little bit of all of those other jobs, but not shine in any one area.

 

In a 12v12 game, ideally I think having 3 or 4 scouts, 3 or 4 strikes, 2 or 3 'bombers' and 2 or 3 gunships would be a perfect combination for any one team with out slanting them too heavily in one area. this mix would give them the most flexibility I can see for the game, how ever that would take coordination, and planning....

 

Maybe one day we will see a command and control type of craft, like a space version of the Joint STARS (E-8 Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System) that would make good coordination easier.

 

Till that point though, one just has to remember that GSF isn't a pure skill game, and actually has an Random Number Generator and RPG elements in it, and that means that sometimes you will just run into a brick wall that is meant to be a counter to your 'class', and you either adapt, die or give up and move on.

[PeterKannNix]

As long as bombers always fill the first ranks on the score board something is wrong.

 

Bombers are much to easy to play for their reward. The same is for gunships .. it's easy to kill enemies (as the hit detection is very forgiving) and as long as your not brains dead it's easy to flee. A scout can be extremely deadly but only in a good hand he will really shine.

[Docmal]

I fly a strike. I have them mastered on both imp and Republic. Strikes were much better off before this patch. If you don't agree then you know very little about the game.

 

its as simple as that.

 

I completely disagree with you. I have switched my main ship from a FlashFire to a Pike after 2.6 and it is awesome.

 

Bombers combined with the nerfs to piercing have "fixed" battle scout OP. This means that the closest thing to a pre 2.6 flashfire is a strike.

[QuinMantha]

I preface this by saying that I don't think I've ever flown my Bomber.

 

Now, that being said, there have been some MAJOR changes to the basic dynamics of GSF from my perspective since their introduction. Keep in mind, this is coming from a Quarrel pilot, so it's going to be in very Gunny-istic terms.

 

The first, Domination matches have calcified in interesting ways. Back in the day, your Scouts would swoop in, cap your sat, and zoom off to play, leaving one, and if they were playing intelligently, possibly two defenders on duty. As a Gunship, two defenders was a no-brainer, depending on the ships. You vape one of the poor saps before they even know you're there, wait for the other to spook, and burn turrets while they hide. It would give you a window of maybe twenty, thirty seconds to clear everything out and get into close orbit before the next wave of spawns came in, howling for your blood. Absolutely doable.

 

These days, it takes thirty seconds, and never less than four Slug Rail shots to kill a bomber. This isn't complaining, per se, but it does leave Gunships like myself in an interesting position: focus the bomber first, alert the second defender, and hope you can finish it off before the second guy gets on you? Or hose the other guy, alert the bomber, and spend forever trying to take him down and hope the other guy takes his sweet time spawning? Oh, and also turrets, don't forget.

 

Assaulting satellites now requires thought, strategy, reinforcements, and some concerted effort. If as little as a single bomber is on a satellite, it's invariably going to be a tough nut to crack. This makes Domination matches much more and occasionally less interesting...of course, I'm saying that from 15k meters off, looking through my Rail sights.

 

In Deathmatches, Bombers' mines and turrets are a Gunny's best friend. A good Bomber will set up a defensible area for Gunnys to park in, providing us with stationary cover while we engage the bad guys. It's nice to GET that sort of dedicated cover...asking a Scout or a Strike to fly cover for you is basically telling a three-year old they can't go play with the other kids. It's no fun for them, and you feel bad doing it, too.

 

I don't hate Bombers. I will agree they require little to no skill due to AI mechanics. And my fiancee loathes them. They've definitely changed the landscape of how we fly, though.

Edited February 21, 2014 by QuinMantha
spelling

[ptwonline]

I know the feeling in Domination I'm usually using my War Carrier, and I often move out to engage attackers, after I've put into ops chat "A is under attack"...

 

And your stats sure look like mine in Domination too.... Sometimes I wonder if I get any credit for what my missile or rail Drones do...

 

Do you run seeker mines or Protons? I like Protons and Heavy Lasers on my bird, with the rail Drone position to give it enough of an engagement zone covering the sat, as well as most of the way to B.

 

Either will work. If your problem is more often scouts, then mines are better. if your problem is more often the long-range Strikes firing missiles, then Protorps are your friend. I like the mines more though since my problem tends to be more often the scouts and strikes getting up close and trying to kill me as we circle the sat, and they would have a big advantage otherwise.

[Kaivers]

 

In Deathmatches, Bombers' mines and turrets are a Gunny's best friend. A good Bomber will set up a defensible area for Gunnys to park in, providing us with stationary cover while we engage the bad guys. It's nice to GET that sort of dedicated cover...asking a Scout or a Strike to fly cover for you is basically telling a three-year old they can't go play with the other kids. It's no fun for them, and you feel bad doing it, too.

 

I don't hate Bombers. I will agree they require little to no skill due to AI mechanics. And my fiancee loathes them. They've definitely changed the landscape of how we fly, though.

 

Gunships benefited the most from the introduction of bombers, from both an offensive and defensive standpoint. This is extremely puzzling to me because before 2.6 Gunships were topping the charts in almost everything without the need for stationary cover and easy drone/bomber kills .

Edited February 23, 2014 by Kaivers

[Lytewraith]

All I can say is WOW

 

Where to even start on this post is rediculas in itself. As a very effective pilot in any ship and master of a few I can tell ya. Going head on aginst the bomber is not going to win the fight ifyou do not have a emp.

The bomber class no matter which one is a tough cookie.It takes team work to accomplish anything in gsf especially if a bomber is guarding it but it is not impossible. If you work together as a team it is very easy to over come them.

first off you forget this is a team sport not a solo.

here is the trick for those who have not figured it out yet ill explain how to win in detail.

 

you need a few different ships in your squad and guys it is squads not solo

scout emp for fast cap and also provides missle lock proof for 3 secs and emps stop systems and engines so no systems no abilities includeing the drone drop and the conc mine

gunship aoe ion 25% min on ion charge up and it stops people dead in there tracks and prevents power and getaways and kills the drnes andmines the best because aoe is awesome

pike with emp missle and protorps for those pesky gun ships 11.5km rang a must have and 7700 m emp for mines or drones and ofcoarse no system or shield abilty hmm lets tink if they cant shift power to shieldsthey die very easy.

and ofcoarse your friendly nebiorhood bomber pilot on a warrcarrier of coarse the other one is a joke for distracting power

 

you guys are making it to easy to be taken to the cleaners when you stragle in with no idea or tactics. No matter what you are flying if you don't have a clue and tactic's you are going to fail that is why well organized and cordnated groups and players are allways going to win no matter what they are flying

 

bombers are not the problem it is throwing yourself at a wall over and over again thinking that is going to work

that is the definition of defeat but hey if you feel the need to feed the free points we will defintly take them and yes I am flying a combination of ships depending on what is needed in the match at any given time you must learn to act ad adapt faster of be cannon fodder I don't care anymore you can qq all you wantbut its not going to change anything you are still going to lose no matter what you fly unless you relize thereis allways a way to win you just have to find it and remember every ship in the gsf game can die

Edited February 23, 2014 by Lytewraith
misspell

[Phatbeard]

All I can say is WOW

 

Where to even start on this post is rediculas in itself. As a very effective pilot in any ship and master of a few I can tell ya. Going head on aginst the bomber is not going to win the fight ifyou do not have a emp.

The bomber class no matter which one is a tough cookie.It takes team work to accomplish anything in gsf especially if a bomber is guarding it but it is not impossible. If you work together as a team it is very easy to over come them.

first off you forget this is a team sport not a solo.

here is the trick for those who have not figured it out yet ill explain how to win in detail.

 

you need a few different ships in your squad and guys it is squads not solo

scout emp for fast cap and also provides missle lock proof for 3 secs and emps stop systems and engines so no systems no abilities includeing the drone drop and the conc mine

gunship aoe ion 25% min on ion charge up and it stops people dead in there tracks and prevents power and getaways and kills the drnes andmines the best because aoe is awesome

pike with emp missle and protorps for those pesky gun ships 11.5km rang a must have and 7700 m emp for mines or drones and ofcoarse no system or shield abilty hmm lets tink if they cant shift power to shieldsthey die very easy.

and ofcoarse your friendly nebiorhood bomber pilot on a warrcarrier of coarse the other one is a joke for distracting power

 

you guys are making it to easy to be taken to the cleaners when you stragle in with no idea or tactics. No matter what you are flying if you don't have a clue and tactic's you are going to fail that is why well organized and cordnated groups and players are allways going to win no matter what they are flying

 

bombers are not the problem it is throwing yourself at a wall over and over again thinking that is going to work

that is the definition of defeat but hey if you feel the need to feed the free points we will defintly take them and yes I am flying a combination of ships depending on what is needed in the match at any given time you must learn to act ad adapt faster of be cannon fodder I don't care anymore you can qq all you wantbut its not going to change anything you are still going to lose no matter what you fly unless you relize thereis allways a way to win you just have to find it and remember every ship in the gsf game can die

 

I'd like to buy "punctuation" for $500, Alex.

[SlimsPicken]

The whole meta has changed for sure.

 

I dont think its quite as fun as before, but then again, what was fun for me before 2.6 was flying my scouts- which were admittedly king of the hill in the early game.

 

I still have fun, but tend to have more fun in different ships than i used to have fun in.

[Oticus]

All I can say is WOW

 

Where to even start on this post is rediculas in itself. "text"

to find it and remember every ship in the gsf game can die

 

Elitism much? There is always at least one post like your in every thread and I can almost guarantee you run with a four person group on vent or TS. Fact is, if your team has two bombers vs none on the other, not only do you have a guaranteed win, but you will have a hard time finding ships to kill as they are usually killed by turrets before they even get in range from their capitol ship. I have played a bomber and it is stupidly easy to hold an objective and rack up kills. All your counters etc... require a lot more skill and specialization of ships then needed for any other ship in the game. I would say I am a fairly decent player and even with all your counters and a decent team I have found that winning against a bomber heavy group is not possible (even if they are mediocre players with low upgrades). I cant say that about any other class of ship. So yes I feel that they need to be definitely toned down in their turret damage and their survivability

[Ravenschild]

Elitism much? There is always at least one post like your in every thread and I can almost guarantee you run with a four person group on vent or TS. Fact is, if your team has two bombers vs none on the other, not only do you have a guaranteed win, but you will have a hard time finding ships to kill as they are usually killed by turrets before they even get in range from their capitol ship. I have played a bomber and it is stupidly easy to hold an objective and rack up kills. All your counters etc... require a lot more skill and specialization of ships then needed for any other ship in the game. I would say I am a fairly decent player and even with all your counters and a decent team I have found that winning against a bomber heavy group is not possible (even if they are mediocre players with low upgrades). I cant say that about any other class of ship. So yes I feel that they need to be definitely toned down in their turret damage and their survivability

 

Not elitism at all. Yes at times I do run 4 man with VOC (and yes I know I am not the guy you originally responded to but this needed to be addressed) mostly I do not. I( also fly both factions and have no issue swapping toons if one side is rolling the other.Fact is if the other side has 2 bombers and you have multiple strike fighters said bombers are hosed if the strikes have EMP missiles. Worse if they have EMP and Ion missiles. I fly bomber,scout and strike. I do fairly well and the turrets do not do my killing when I am guarding a satellite on a bomber. EMP missl;es tend to mess with every ship. It isnt specialized at all. If the group is bomber heavy (not the 2 you said earlier) then the other team is going to cap since it is the slowest ship in the game even with the maxed engines. I have also used gunships to target the bombers from a distance (again a fairly simple strategy) since when the bomber dies so does all the drones mines etc. I was in a game where most of the team was flying bombers on the other side. We triple capped by getting there first (even with the gunships) used emp missiles to nullify the other teams abilities and yes we had one bomber that mostly used his repair drone for relaoding of missles. Basically he was the GSF equivalent of a logistics frigate. We held the triple cap and won rather easily. Also that game was all pugs and no VOC (TS,Vent etc). Several people are now using raidcall for a dedicated GSF VOC available to everyone on GSF in their faction on their server since its free. Something also to think about since this game does not not have VOC on its own.

[Paelo]

I can't believe this is a serious thread

 

A well placed ion missile will typically wipe out all the mines in an area the bomber is trying to control, not to mention virtually wreck even upgraded drones. Drones are annoying, but they are far from game breaking.

 

Bombers have been a God send to gsf as they have broken up what used to be nothing more than a Gunship fest. At least now you actually see a more even spread of ships being used, particularly as more players are becoming adept at using scouts and strike fighters to counter bombers.

[QuinMantha]

He's allowed to not like them despite the countermeasures involved.

 

The original trinity of Scout-Strike-Gunny is gone now, and it used to be nice to have a three-pointed rock-paper-scissors dynamic going on. Now, with Bombers, it's like a fourth option has been wedged in there.

 

Again, as a Gunny, I've benefited from people flying Bombers, so I can navigate that wedge with less difficulty than Bael, who flies Scouts.

[Armonddd]

The original trinity of Scout-Strike-Gunny is gone now, and it used to be nice to have a three-pointed rock-paper-scissors dynamic going on. Now, with Bombers, it's like a fourth option has been wedged in there.

 

I'm sorry, but this is simply not true.

 

Pre-patch, it was more like, scout beats strike, gunship beats strike, unskilled gunship gimps scout, skilled scout pops gunship. Now it's more like, scout beats strike, gunship gimps scout, gunship gimps strike, gunship gimps bomber, smart scout/strike pops gunship, bomber explodes bad scout/strike, smart scout/strike whittles away at bomber, flawless bomber AI blows up some poor schmuck, bomber makes satellite unflippable.

 

...Did I miss anything?

[QuinMantha]

Uh, yeah, one thing.

 

Me still being on top of the rankings unless the pilots I really respect came out to play.

[Armonddd]

Yeah, skilled pilots make class superiority less relevant.

[QuinMantha]

Yeah, skilled pilots make class superiority less relevant.

 

Bingo.

 

Which is why even I have to look at folks wailing about this ship OP or that ship OP or nerf Gunnys/Scouts/Bombers/AuntSassy and shake my head. The really good pilots, at least on Ebon Hawk, are so talented at what they do, it doesn't matter how OP my Ion Rail is...they still manage to slip out from under my sights and even come back around and nail me.

 

If my ship was really that OP, be it Scout, Strike, Gunny or Bomber, I shouldn't be getting killed in it. People hate my Gunship, but the really good pilots know just what to do to make me uncomfortable.

 

If they can do it to my Gunship, they can do it to a Bomber. All it takes is a little bit of time, and learning where to squeeze.

[Armonddd]

The really good pilots, at least on Ebon Hawk, are so talented at what they do, it doesn't matter how OP my Ion Rail is...they still manage to slip out from under my sights and even come back around and nail me.

 

If my ship was really that OP, be it Scout, Strike, Gunny or Bomber, I shouldn't be getting killed in it. People hate my Gunship, but the really good pilots know just what to do to make me uncomfortable.

 

You've seen me fly. You know I'm not shooting my mouth off here. If you've forgotten, I have screenshots and you can always grab me for a few games.

 

Overpowered does not mean unbeatable. There is really only one case I can think of across any game I've ever played where it did, and that's Mewtwo in Red/Blue. In any other example -- beastcleave in WoW, spiritway in Guild Wars, bombers and gunships in GSF, you name it -- overpowered has meant simply that: overpowered. Not "guaranteed win", not "unkillable", just "more powerful than it should be".

 

And even given that, my biggest gripe with bombers and gunships isn't that they're overpowered (even though they are); my biggest gripe is that they're unfun. It's no fun to be smacked by ion and realize there's nothing you can do but wait. It's no fun to get blown up by seeker mines because you can't prevent their damage once they lock on to you. It's no fun to get railgunned to death in the middle of a barrel roll because railgun drones have absolutely perfect AI and seemingly ignore evasion. It's no fun to watch two guys blow up because they were on the tail of a bomber when he rolled his face across the conc mine button. It's no fun to get shot out of the air by some guy with a slug that you didn't even know existed. It's no fun to die to a plasma dot after killing the only guy within fifty kilometers.

 

In short, the fact that you can die doesn't mean the game is appropriately balanced.

[QuinMantha]

Well, time out, hasn't the whole not being able to outrun Seeker Mines bit been corrected by 2.6a?

[Armonddd]

Well, time out, hasn't the whole not being able to outrun Seeker Mines bit been corrected by 2.6a?

 

I was pretty sure that was still "in the works" (missile sentry drones too). I could be crazy, though.

 

Still, there's a bunch of legitimate complaints about bombers being not fun. You can replace that specific one with "I didn't sign up for PvP so I could fight the AI", if you like.

[Sindariel]

And even given that, my biggest gripe with bombers and gunships isn't that they're overpowered (even though they are); my biggest gripe is that they're unfun. It's no fun to be smacked by ion and realize there's nothing you can do but wait. It's no fun to get blown up by seeker mines because you can't prevent their damage once they lock on to you. It's no fun to get railgunned to death in the middle of a barrel roll because railgun drones have absolutely perfect AI and seemingly ignore evasion. It's no fun to watch two guys blow up because they were on the tail of a bomber when he rolled his face across the conc mine button. It's no fun to get shot out of the air by some guy with a slug that you didn't even know existed. It's no fun to die to a plasma dot after killing the only guy within fifty kilometers.

 

This sums it up perfectly.

 

Just imagine if they were to implement a seperate dogfight only gamemode with just scouts and strike fighters and without bombers and gunships. How long do you think it would take until players would completely abandon the normal gamemode? Weeks? Days? Hours?

[Armonddd]

This sums it up perfectly.

 

Just imagine if they were to implement a seperate dogfight only gamemode with just scouts and strike fighters and without bombers and gunships. How long do you think it would take until players would completely abandon the normal gamemode? Weeks? Days? Hours?

 

Well, that wouldn't be perfect either.

 

I really, really, really dislike the current incarnation of gunships and bombers, but they add a desperately needed variety to combat. Tactics for fighting scouts and strikes are generally fairly similar: you dogfight them. Specifics change, and different builds require different tactics to counter, but that's the general idea. One thing gunships bring to the table that I've liked and encouraged since early alpha is that they greatly expand the space in which a battle takes place, which reduces predictability and increases fun.

 

I would have absolutely loved gunships if they were a ranged support class, instead of a ranged offensive class. If gunships had a thing that shot healing drones at an ally, with a range of 15 km, requiring you to lock on to your ally? That would be absolutely boss. That would encourage people to fight in places other than on the point, or in the middle of the killball, without the unfun mechanics railguns bring to the table. With some work, that class could also be fun to play (no offense to the gunship and bomber aces out there, but damn that **** is boring to me).

 

It's not a perfect idea, but it's a concept I feel would be much better for the game than the current gunship and bomber concepts.

[Lugaidh]

Bingo.

 

Which is why even I have to look at folks wailing about this ship OP or that ship OP or nerf Gunnys/Scouts/Bombers/AuntSassy and shake my head. The really good pilots, at least on Ebon Hawk, are so talented at what they do, it doesn't matter how OP my Ion Rail is...they still manage to slip out from under my sights and even come back around and nail me.

 

If my ship was really that OP, be it Scout, Strike, Gunny or Bomber, I shouldn't be getting killed in it. People hate my Gunship, but the really good pilots know just what to do to make me uncomfortable.

 

If they can do it to my Gunship, they can do it to a Bomber. All it takes is a little bit of time, and learning where to squeeze.

Is that you Rhint??

 

<----Baelyn-tiel

 

Anyway, my issue isn't that they're op. It's cuz they've turned gsf into a hide-and-seek or even a smash a grab game.

 

You chase someone, do some damage and then fly back to the mass of drones and/or mines that the bomber has laid. Now it's a prod-fest. We goad each other until we get the enemy in or out of the drone/mine field (depending on which team you're on.

 

I still top the leader boards but that's not why I play. I play for the hair-raising, ride by the seat of your pants action. It's devolved into a hit and fade sneakfest which is my problem with the bombers.

[Pilgrim_Grey]

In short, the fact that you can die doesn't mean the game is appropriately balanced.

 

Yup. I've got nothing against the idea of bombers or even many of the aspects of ion cannon. The problem is that they're just not balanced right now for what they can do. Scouts and Distortion Field are looking much more balanced at the moment, so hopefully they can do the same soon for the others.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Pilgrim_Grey

[MarkosWarstorm]

Bombers are more useful in dominations matches than deathmatch. In domination matches, if I'm flying against middling to lower-tier pilots, I use my bomber. I do this because (a) I can drop mines/drones near objectives knowing that the enemy will come near, and (b) knowing that I can do far more mass damage against them since they don't actively wipe me or my drones out. In deathmatch, it can be somewhat effective if you can keep folks fighting in a reasonably small area, which is best done in a group. Since I'm mostly a solo queuer, it's not easy for me to dictate the battle location.

 

Now, in either mode, against good pilots, they know 3 things. Drones/mines blow up easy. Also, when I die, all my mines/drones go too. Further, I'm slow and have next to no escapability if I'm being ganged. So basically if they focus me down, I'm gone as are all my toys, and it'll take a long time until I'm back in the fight, compared to other ships. When that happens, I'm a far more useful member to my team (particularly solo) in my pike or flashfire.

 

TL;DR - Bombers are most useful in small areas. Bombers have weaknesses, good pilots (especially teamed) can exploit these and render a bomber almost totally useless. Against good pilots (and especially when solo queued), fly a strike or a scout.