Why play a sorcerer/sage healer anymore?

[RTCBrad]

the defensive hybrid with kb-root and stunbubble and all worthwhile gimmicks of the balance tree but the 36 talent.

great for surviving, and everything but t tkt procced to be instand.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600oZcRrrdRMcMMZcMdRs0z.3

 

Problem I have with that build, in the end a good melee will beat it everytime.

 

If you want to stand a chance against competent melee you need to go full balance dot and kite. It's that or lose.

[teclado]

^^ What RTCBrad said. I've played that hybrid spec before. It works great sub 55, but the only time I've been able to beat a decent melee (e.g. marauder) in 55 is with full balance. Sever force is really useful. Edited February 6, 2014 by teclado

[madtycoon]

They're fine in 8v8, because you can stay in the back and sprint whenever someone tries to get on you. The only thing you really have to worry about are sins. If something gets on you and you don't have cooldowns or CC to stop them, then just kite and heal yourself. Keep yourself up with priority. Sprint away if something attacks you. Don't stand in the group. Just assume you won't get any help and you won't die.

 

That kind of mentality works fine in warzones, but in 4v4 without guard or a decent controlling player the best you can do when focused by anyone is make it a 3v1/3v2 elsewhere and hope your teammates will score a kill while you kite all over the place. You also run out of space in arenas, unlike warzones where you have plenty of room to play.

 

Scoundrels are by far the best healers with guard. Because when the damage slows down they don't really have to cast much at all and aren't penalized if they do get locked out. Sorcs will still have to lifetap and have a difficult time keeping everyone topped while just standing there with guard on. They can't really just sit there and facetank against geared players even with guard, so its harder for a tank to play with a healing sorc who still needs to kite to be effective even with guard.

 

Lifetap is the dumbest regen mechanic every created. It would be fine if it was off global or didn't cost health. Concealment operatives getting buffed actually helps healing sorcs imo, because sorcs and commandos are the slightly stronger healers against them, because they can counter the opener better with shield or stealth scan/hold the line. Healing scoundrels just get raped, because evasion doesn't really help them. I doubt however that dps scoundrels will be able to play 4v4, because they'll probably just get destroyed without guard (no real defensives).

 

The pulse cannon change also helps sorc healers, because that's one less dps hybrid they really have to worry about, meaning damage is lower. Maybe they will do better in solo queue, because when there's no guard they should be able to survive as long as an operative healer who isn't just waiting in stealth against equal dps. That's how I see it.

 

Healing scoundrels have the strongest instant casts, best burst/reactionary healing, equal casted healing, best aoe healing, best CC, weaker interrupt, slightly weaker overall defensives (depending on what they are fighting), easiest rotation, easiest regen management, best burst/help dps and by far the best overall sustained healing output. Sorcs can grip and have a second CC break in barrier, but from a healing standpoint the only thing they have that scoundrels don't are shields now that you can't cleanse madness dots. Scoundrels are now the strongest healer against madness which doesn't make any sense, but whatever.

[Tankqull]

Problem I have with that build, in the end a good melee will beat it everytime.

 

If you want to stand a chance against competent melee you need to go full balance dot and kite. It's that or lose.

 

if you can kill someone with full madness, you can aswell with that spec.

the only thing you are missing is 5k dmg over 18sec. and the 30% dmg increase by field of death to the dot part of your attacks.

both is easily compensated by your increased kiting options due to stunbubble and especially the kb root. and your severly increased instand dmg by (not sure of the names of sorcskills) disturbence (2-3k higher crits because of 50% surge skill) 5-8k tidal force (same surgeskill)

tkt is reduced in its channeling time by critical weaken mind dot ticks. overall you are not losing the slightest amount of dmg but gain severe QoL updates as the only thing you are actually casting is tkt(force lightning) wich needs to be casted as madness sorc aswell.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Tankqull

[DanNV]

I stopped playing my Sage healer in PVP ages ago. (My first toon, started just after launch.) There just isn't any point. I still see a few around, but they don't seem to stick around. On my server it's rare for the Rep side to have any healers at all. The top healing will be 50-75k most of the time.

[Krozis]

I have a completely and utterly different take on this.

 

With the operative boost, and more Juggs/Guardians using Vengeance. The roots and dangers to ANY healer are just that much worse.

 

BTW: It's not just sorc healers. Any toon is flat on its face from operatives, or rooted into ravages by CC immune juggs..... it happens to all of us. Trust me armor doesn't mean that much for a merc that's been Gored.

 

But what ALL of this means to me is it is validating a rare breed in non-ranked PVP: The tank. Tanking has just become that much more VALUABLE with all this stuff that's happened very recently.

 

Get a tank buddy to help you out. Quality of life for any healer in post 2.6 will be greatly improved.

[Joonbeams]

Seen lots of posts about ways to "manage" with a sage/sorc. Haven't seen a single post tho that says why anyone would PvP as a sage/sorc healer (or for that matter commando) as opposed to Scouperative. As to the OP, it's hard to argue for PvP healing with sage/sorc today.

 

That's not a nerf-operative QQ. For the record, I'm generally anti-nerf. It's a buff sage/sorc post so that there is a reason to invest in this AC for PvP.

[Joonbeams]

I have a completely and utterly different take on this.

 

With the operative boost, and more Juggs/Guardians using Vengeance. The roots and dangers to ANY healer are just that much worse.

 

BTW: It's not just sorc healers. Any toon is flat on its face from operatives, or rooted into ravages by CC immune juggs..... it happens to all of us. Trust me armor doesn't mean that much for a merc that's been Gored.

 

But what ALL of this means to me is it is validating a rare breed in non-ranked PVP: The tank. Tanking has just become that much more VALUABLE with all this stuff that's happened very recently.

 

Get a tank buddy to help you out. Quality of life for any healer in post 2.6 will be greatly improved.

 

Real talk of the day ^^

[Jaiyne]

Make my sorc heals viable for ranked, BW.

 

You have TONS of help on how to do this in our forums. Please actually read and respond to it.

[Ren_simp]

Sage healers have fairly decent escape mechanics Egress,force speed reset from barrier 20%slow for 18sec

But even so they are an easy target.

 

For sages

I would fix barrier so it can be used while under electro net

Currently you need to waste your cc breaker to use barrier

1ability should not force you to use 2 of you most valuable escape defence cooldowns

 

Reduce to cooldown on force wave to 17 seconds and attaché an aoe

Slow to its affect

[Aetideus]

I would fix barrier so it can be used while under electro net

 

That is the complete insanity. The el net tooltip: "prevents from high mobility and escape actions". Where is the escape action?

Edited February 6, 2014 by Aetideus

[truchaos]

Three simple changes/revisions would aid in sorc/sage healing and resource management.

 

1. Revert the change to consumption/noble sacrifice- return the 'no hit point loss when consuming' to the stacks of Force Surge & Resplendence. This will aid in force management vs risk in both pvp and pve settings. No other healer has to risk themselves in such a way to regain their resources like sages/sorcs.

 

2. Dark Heal / Benevolence- Add a new line to Force Surge/Resplendence that makes these instant while stacks are active. Each instant cast consumes 1 stack (stacks to 3). Do not change the overall force cost. This would be similar to the tactical/upperhand insta heal of the scoundrel/operative only they also have the force cost still attached and can be cast outside of stacks if needed.

 

3. Dark Infusion/Deliverance- Increase the base healing for these. They are the longest hard-cast heal (both base and spec'ed into) and should pack the largest single target healing punch in the game. Right now for the cast time vs the healing done, it is less than the other healing ac's.

 

Personally, I would like the cast time reduced to what it used to be, but I'd be happy with a base increase in return for the insainly long cast.

[JediMasterSLC]

Needs buff, BW please pay attn to this issue instead of placating dps op QQers.

[ajiehblr]

They're fine in 8v8, because you can stay in the back and sprint whenever someone tries to get on you. The only thing you really have to worry about are sins. If something gets on you and you don't have cooldowns or CC to stop them, then just kite and heal yourself. Keep yourself up with priority. Sprint away if something attacks you. Don't stand in the group. Just assume you won't get any help and you won't die.

 

That kind of mentality works fine in warzones, but in 4v4 without guard or a decent controlling player the best you can do when focused by anyone is make it a 3v1/3v2 elsewhere and hope your teammates will score a kill while you kite all over the place. You also run out of space in arenas, unlike warzones where you have plenty of room to play.

 

Scoundrels are by far the best healers with guard. Because when the damage slows down they don't really have to cast much at all and aren't penalized if they do get locked out. Sorcs will still have to lifetap and have a difficult time keeping everyone topped while just standing there with guard on. They can't really just sit there and facetank against geared players even with guard, so its harder for a tank to play with a healing sorc who still needs to kite to be effective even with guard.

 

Lifetap is the dumbest regen mechanic every created. It would be fine if it was off global or didn't cost health. Concealment operatives getting buffed actually helps healing sorcs imo, because sorcs and commandos are the slightly stronger healers against them, because they can counter the opener better with shield or stealth scan/hold the line. Healing scoundrels just get raped, because evasion doesn't really help them. I doubt however that dps scoundrels will be able to play 4v4, because they'll probably just get destroyed without guard (no real defensives).

 

The pulse cannon change also helps sorc healers, because that's one less dps hybrid they really have to worry about, meaning damage is lower. Maybe they will do better in solo queue, because when there's no guard they should be able to survive as long as an operative healer who isn't just waiting in stealth against equal dps. That's how I see it.

 

Healing scoundrels have the strongest instant casts, best burst/reactionary healing, equal casted healing, best aoe healing, best CC, weaker interrupt, slightly weaker overall defensives (depending on what they are fighting), easiest rotation, easiest regen management, best burst/help dps and by far the best overall sustained healing output. Sorcs can grip and have a second CC break in barrier, but from a healing standpoint the only thing they have that scoundrels don't are shields now that you can't cleanse madness dots. Scoundrels are now the strongest healer against madness which doesn't make any sense, but whatever.

 

That's wrong! Operatives don't have strongest insta cast :\ and AOE is not best too. Though they have more CC. Again no one says about Sorc pull as advantage before Operatives. You all are too concentrating on Operatives Sorc healers have their own uniqe advantage. And we don't need buff BW just need to do something with Operative energy management that's all. I'm fine with their heals, CC, stealth and etc. but their energy management is too OP right now.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

.................. Haven't seen a single post tho that says why anyone would PvP as a sage/sorc healer (or for that matter commando) as opposed to Scouperative. As to the OP, it's hard to argue for PvP healing with sage/sorc today.............

 

Well, I play a Sawbones Scoundrel along with a Medic Operative, but my mains will always be my Seer Sage and Defence Guardian. Play all classes, learn the weaknesses of them all and find enjoyment in each of them.

 

Whilst I agree that life is suddenly even harder as a Seer, especially given that there are few decent PVP tanks out there who know their role, it is still fun, not to mention a new challenge to overcome. I play my tank, the way I know my sage wants it to be played.

 

Do people really want to not have to learn new tricks and skills to improve their chances? Personally I just stagnate if things are too easy, it is good to need to improve to beat a new threat. I contemplated respeccing either my Sawbones or Medic, but no, I personally can't bring myself to follow the masses. Same reason I wont change my marauder to Rage from Carnage. I was playing Infiltration Shadow when it was awful and Assault Commando when it was the worst spec in the game. I guess I prefer the game to be hard, otherwise it is completely boring.

 

There is no doubt that warzones are infested with concealment operatives currently, let these people have their fun, learn to beat them, remembering always that the game is not about killing them or 1vs1. The only thing that really annoys me is the noises of the rep side attacks, for some reason it grates on my nerves!

Edited February 7, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[Legalos]

Even though I love playing healing classes I have stopped using any in PVP. I am just tired of the following situation:

 

I get focused on by 3/4 melee, rest of the team runs past not helping in anyway. I die (obviously) and the next minute one of the (insert not so nice words here) that ran past me makes a comment in the line of " the healers is bad, I am not getting any heals, healer learn to play please"

 

This use to happen mostly on Imp side but this , lets call it a curse of idiocy has found its way to Pub side as well.

 

Sad but true

[RTCBrad]

Sages have 2 problems; that fact that we are absolutely terrible some would even say broken for PvP healing, and our main predator the melee classes can deal literally constant 8.5k+ crits to us (this assuming we have full pvp gear if we don't then its even more).

[Ghost_Spectre]

Sages have 2 problems; that fact that we are absolutely terrible some would even say broken for PvP healing, and our main predator the melee classes can deal literally constant 8.5k+ crits to us (this assuming we have full pvp gear if we don't then its even more).

 

Just 2? It's more than that. Sage/Sorcerers have no damage mitigation. What defensive abilities they have are all but useless. When BW Devs in their finite wisdom nerfed the armor for Shadows/Assassins they really screwed their counterpart. Then they reduced the effectiveness of the bubble by 50%. GJ! While the Self CC Bubble can delay death, it is only for 10 seconds. Other than that, it is useless.

 

They reduced the knock back of force wave and overload to a frontal cone only and lowered the knock back range; however, left the others who have 360 knock back alone. Then they removed the ability to have an instant mezz (Whirlwind). Those all add up to reducing the survivability of the Sage/Sorcerer to making them nearly useless. Notice, I said nearly, not completely.

 

They still have their uses, like being the first target of choice and focal point of the other side. Allowing the rest of the team to do something...

 

The Sage/Sorcerer need a buff to bring their healing up where it is less dependent on casting as one mentioned in this thread or another. Survivability needs a buff, and make a few things baseline like -30% damage when stunned, fade out, and rooting on knockback. Buff their bubble back to where it was and their armor. Return the 360 knock back ability with increased range (greater than 10 meters) and the instant mezz. Then you might see these two classes worth something other than cannon fodder and/or medal farming.

[MocniSkopac]

sork so tanky

[AlrikFassbauer]

Lifetap is the dumbest regen mechanic every created. It would be fine if it was off global or didn't cost health.

 

I agree to that. I was amazed that someone really did this skill, when I got it. I thought I couldn't believe my eyes.

 

In PvE, that might be okay, but in PvP ? It's just lowering your survivability. "Oh, look, he's even taking away his own health for us !"

 

Yes, you can do something with the points left - like healing yourself again, but is it really worth that ?

 

Seen lots of posts about ways to "manage" with a sage/sorc. Haven't seen a single post tho that says why anyone would PvP as a sage/sorc healer (or for that matter commando) as opposed to Scouperative. As to the OP, it's hard to argue for PvP healing with sage/sorc today.

 

Yes. I don't ever see threads like : "10 reasons why you should play a Sorc / Sage oin PvP" or something like that.

 

And in ALL suggestion threads about sugvgesting which healing class is the most playable. the Sage / Sorc is NEVER there. Only if one of those few who have actually mastered the class recommends one.

 

Just 2? It's more than that. Sage/Sorcerers have no damage mitigation.

 

They have.

 

It is called "running away". That's what was envisioned by the Developers.

 

However, if they get the chance to run away, that is ...

Edited February 7, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[RTCBrad]

Just 2? It's more than that. Sage/Sorcerers have no damage mitigation. What defensive abilities they have are all but useless. When BW Devs in their finite wisdom nerfed the armor for Shadows/Assassins they really screwed their counterpart. Then they reduced the effectiveness of the bubble by 50%. GJ! While the Self CC Bubble can delay death, it is only for 10 seconds. Other than that, it is useless.

 

They reduced the knock back of force wave and overload to a frontal cone only and lowered the knock back range; however, left the others who have 360 knock back alone. Then they removed the ability to have an instant mezz (Whirlwind). Those all add up to reducing the survivability of the Sage/Sorcerer to making them nearly useless. Notice, I said nearly, not completely.

 

They still have their uses, like being the first target of choice and focal point of the other side. Allowing the rest of the team to do something...

 

The Sage/Sorcerer need a buff to bring their healing up where it is less dependent on casting as one mentioned in this thread or another. Survivability needs a buff, and make a few things baseline like -30% damage when stunned, fade out, and rooting on knockback. Buff their bubble back to where it was and their armor. Return the 360 knock back ability with increased range (greater than 10 meters) and the instant mezz. Then you might see these two classes worth something other than cannon fodder and/or medal farming.

 

Lol I couldn't agree more, I was just trying to make a short n sweet post.

[Vikassi]

do you have that OP bubble tho? what more do you need .. ?

[TizonaDelCid]

Well, I have played a lot of Arenas and WZ and I must say Sorc healer isn't that bad Yeah, it harder to heal but when you learn certain things you can do reasonable heals in both WZ and Arena, though in Arena it too hard to do that. Now everyone says that Sorc healer has no usefull things for team - that not true. You have bubbles very nice AOE heal and pull. The last one is very usefull in right hand of good Sorc. So stop crying and learn how to play I agree that you can't be as good as top Operatives but you can do as much heals as average Oper for sure.

 

 

"stop crying" and "learn how to play"

 

two things typically said by egotistical people who have no tact or social graces.

[DanNV]

This pretty much sums up what I've said about Sages for a long time.

 

Just 2? It's more than that. Sage/Sorcerers have no damage mitigation. What defensive abilities they have are all but useless. When BW Devs in their finite wisdom nerfed the armor for Shadows/Assassins they really screwed their counterpart. Then they reduced the effectiveness of the bubble by 50%. GJ! While the Self CC Bubble can delay death, it is only for 10 seconds. Other than that, it is useless.

 

They reduced the knock back of force wave and overload to a frontal cone only and lowered the knock back range; however, left the others who have 360 knock back alone. Then they removed the ability to have an instant mezz (Whirlwind). Those all add up to reducing the survivability of the Sage/Sorcerer to making them nearly useless. Notice, I said nearly, not completely.

 

They still have their uses, like being the first target of choice and focal point of the other side. Allowing the rest of the team to do something...

 

The Sage/Sorcerer need a buff to bring their healing up where it is less dependent on casting as one mentioned in this thread or another. Survivability needs a buff, and make a few things baseline like -30% damage when stunned, fade out, and rooting on knockback. Buff their bubble back to where it was and their armor. Return the 360 knock back ability with increased range (greater than 10 meters) and the instant mezz. Then you might see these two classes worth something other than cannon fodder and/or medal farming.

[Joonbeams]

Well, I play a Sawbones Scoundrel along with a Medic Operative, but my mains will always be my Seer Sage and Defence Guardian. Play all classes, learn the weaknesses of them all and find enjoyment in each of them.

 

Whilst I agree that life is suddenly even harder as a Seer, especially given that there are few decent PVP tanks out there who know their role, it is still fun, not to mention a new challenge to overcome. I play my tank, the way I know my sage wants it to be played.

 

Do people really want to not have to learn new tricks and skills to improve their chances? Personally I just stagnate if things are too easy, it is good to need to improve to beat a new threat. I contemplated respeccing either my Sawbones or Medic, but no, I personally can't bring myself to follow the masses. Same reason I wont change my marauder to Rage from Carnage. I was playing Infiltration Shadow when it was awful and Assault Commando when it was the worst spec in the game. I guess I prefer the game to be hard, otherwise it is completely boring.

 

There is no doubt that warzones are infested with concealment operatives currently, let these people have their fun, learn to beat them, remembering always that the game is not about killing them or 1vs1. The only thing that really annoys me is the noises of the rep side attacks, for some reason it grates on my nerves!

 

I agree. My main is a Guardian tank. But I have a Sage, Sorc, Op, commando, vanguard, and scoundrel. Leveling a sin too. So far, I haven't leveled any DPS classes past 12 because I prefer mostly heal and tank. I love all the classes for various reasons, and in PvE. But with that said, in WZ, the Sage is just...smh.

 

One of the reasons I love the Guardian is the challenge of playing the class properly. Makes WZs satisfying when I'm dishing out ridiculous protection. Love being that offensive lineman! So it's not even about challenge or difficulty for me. There really is no "challenge" with sage healers. It's just a clearly inferior class - sage healer that is.

 

I'll hedge with an it could a "L2P" issue for me. Not ashamed to admit that. If someone really thinks this class can outshine other healing classes in WZs, I'm happy to hear how.