SWTOR is NOT a single player game!

[Exly]

This is NOT a single player game, and you are no more entitled to control the other players actions towards you as you are in real life.

 

In real life we have laws that are designed to control people actions, and those who can not refrain from doing harm to others are regularly jailed as a result.

 

This is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game, meaning other people will interact with you and interfere with your gameplay, both in a way favorable to you, or not.

 

Some people like PvP, and some don't. That is why there are different server types and there are special areas set aside like warzones and arenas for this style of game play. Why is it asking too much that this play style should not be inflicted on those that have not consented to it?

 

You must either accept this fact or rethink your decision of playing this genre of games.

 

So, it sound like you are saying that it is your way or the highway. I wonder if EA appreciates your saying this to their customers or potential customers? I hope not.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Exly

[Vendd]

I disagree with you here. The definition of griefing includes the caveat "in order to spoil their enjoyment". The so-called 'griefers' in this thread (or at least, the half of the posts that I read) have sadi that the reason they are infecting others is for a quest, achievements, and so on. Not to spoil others' fun.

 

So, by definition, the 'event lovers' are not griefers.

 

And this is coming from someone who isn't too keen on the event. I think it's a pain in the *** unless you are level 55.

 

I agree that the key element of the definition of griefing is about spoiling the enjoyment of other players. The fact that players are infecting others to achieve quest and achievement objectives does not mitigate the griefing. Nor does the fact that it is part of the design for this Event.

 

People doing it know they are spoiling other player's enjoyment - there is plenty of feedback here and in game. Some are even crowing about it in other threads. There are plenty of comments about people enjoying the "tears" of the people being griefed and complaining, that the plague mechanism is the best part of the Event, that they regard the GTN as a "PvP" zone, that lowbie planets are fair game and how they laugh at the distress of the lowbies etc.

 

I suspect it is a bit of a stuff up by Bioware. But if not, and if it is a new approach by Bioware to the game, people will not have to worry about others complaining about it here or elsewhere for long, people will vote with their feet. Self defeating for a commercial company I would have thought but companies make silly decisions all the time.

[Qvasar]

In real life we have laws that are designed to control people actions, and those who can not refrain from doing harm to others are regularly jailed as a result.

Same thing happens here, the Rules of Conduct are the "law", and people violating them find themselves removed from the community, either temporarily or permanently.

The issue is that participating in events, attacking players that flag themselves for PvP, etc... does not constitute a violation of said "law". What we're seeing here are people complaining that others should play according to what they thing the "law" should be. Just note one thing, even if that were the majority of players (which I doubt it is), SWTOR is NOT a democracy, it is in fact a dictatorship.

 

Some people like PvP, and some don't. That is why there are different server types and there are special areas set aside like warzones and arenas for this style of game play. Why is it asking too much that this play style should not be inflicted on those that have not consented to it?

I completely agree. The PvP server warning reads:

This server is a player vs. player server. This means you may engage with and be attacked by others players frequently while adventuring.

So, the key word here is attack. Lobbing a snowball, exploding and spreading a disease, "stealing" mission objectives, whispering, saying, yelling, etc... are not attacks, the obvious reason being - you don't get thrown in combat by any.

Is it annoying? Yes, it can be. Back to real life examples - if I get thrown a snowball, if someone coughs next to me and I catch the flu, if someone grabs that last newspaper while I'm counting the change, if someone whispers or yells next to me I might get angry, but I certainly have no right to label them as "criminals" and demand the government do something about it.

 

So, it sound like you are saying that it is your way or the highway. I wonder if EA appreciates your saying this to their customers or potential customers? I hope not.

I'll grant you this point. That came out wrong and unnecessarily hostile. What I meant was to say interaction is something that happens on MMOs. You can be a solo-player, that is completely up to you, but the game isn't single-player. You can't get aggravated every time someone does something that rubs you the wrong way If you are such a person you probably won't enjoy the game, just that...

[Kain_Turinbar]

This is true, and I don't disagree with this. I also believe that if someone wants to play solo, they should be able to.

 

THAT SAID, this game is in fact an MMO. And it can be seen that Bioware will put things in it that "shake things up" and push the solo players out of their "soloness". The HK-51 quest line is a classic example. You can like or dislike that this happens. But it does.

 

I have no truck with the purely solo players. But I do dislike seeing posts that sound like "I'm being FORCED to do something not solo and it's NOT OKAY".

 

The only way to be assured of not being FORCED out of a solo play experience, is to play a single-player game.

 

What part of the HK-51 quest line isn't soloable? I have just begun my search for the parts and as far as I know the only reason people group up is to cover more area faster but its not required.

 

What annoyed me were the Dread Seed and Macrobinocular missions.........the final tiers that were H4s took me forever to do because apparently most aren't doing them anymore. I even had to PAY people 100k credits to get them to join me so I could clear them off the list.

[Qvasar]

[OFFTOPIC]

What part of the HK-51 quest line isn't soloable? I have just begun my search for the parts and as far as I know the only reason people group up is to cover more area faster but its not required.

The HK-51 Loyalty Chip is found at the end of Maelstrom Prison/Foundry on Hard Mode only. It can be soloed at level 55, but it isn't trivial.

[/OFFTOPIC]

Edited January 29, 2014 by Qvasar

[Vendd]

You are correct (to my knowledge anyway) in that no one is bashing Bioware for providing a full range of content - myself included. My post (albeit verbose) extolled the game's virtues of accommodating both group and solo play. Referencing your concern, "It's a single player games with a bunch of poorly programmed bots" qualifies as an earlier post example that my comment addressed. Drive-by flame jobs and astroturfing are unfortunately part of today's digital culture - MMOs notwithstanding.....

 

There are numerous threads in these forums discussing a perceived inability to group with others. I find that many of the opinions that paint grouping as a painful exercise stem from experiences with ninjas, players quitting, getting kicked, spacebarring or not spacebarring, long queues for DPS types, good old fashioned griefing, etc. Other than spacebar it's all MMO related imho, not game related. The insolence part was sarcasm. If it offended I apologize.

 

I agree with you thoroughly in that having myriad options available for both grouped and solo play are a good thing. Your point about many, if not most, players not being interested in end game content for one reason or another is a valid one. While I conversely believe that many may be interested in it, I also perceive that many won't engage it simply because of the "hardcore" elements associated with it. Full on raiding requires a time investment that most casuals can't afford.

 

End game progression takes preparation, min/max fine tuning (though maybe not as precise here as it is in other games), teamwork and reps. I know a lot of casuals who "raid" and are good at it. They simply can't commit to a schedule, or may not be available for 5 hour uninterrupted stretches on a random basis. As casuals comprise the majority of the MMORPG player landscape, the hardcore minority becomes the majority of end game hobbyists.

 

Ostensibly, some simply don't want to mess with anything outside of a game's path of least resistance. This same path of least resistance play style results in some who would vocalize a lack of things to do in a game where 2/3s of its content resides outside of that path. They aren't burning up the content, they are blowing past it. Not the same thing. Though they may tirelessly try to sell them as being one in the same.

 

You are absolutely spot on - people will engage an extracurricular activity until something else interests them more. They may do something else in addition to it to add variety. They may leave for something else entirely. If they leave they may come back, or they may not. There is no wrong choice there unless they try making other people's experiences miserable because of their decision to engage an activity that they don't enjoy. The old phrase "a bichy sailor is a happy sailor" only applies when leaving means suffering non-judicial punishment consequences.

 

We agree on a lot more than I though we did.

 

And no I wasn't offended by the insolence reference. Subject to Bioware's rules, these forums are there for people to express their personal opinions, provide feedback and to discuss various aspects of the game. Someone doing that is only doing what Bioware intended.

[Exly]

So, the key word here is attackLobbing a snowball, exploding and spreading a disease, "stealing" mission objectives, whispering, saying, yelling, etc... are not attacks, the obvious reason being - you don't get thrown in combat by any.

Is it annoying? Yes, it can be. Back to real life examples - if I get thrown a snowball, if someone coughs next to me and I catch the flu, if someone grabs that last newspaper while I'm counting the change, if someone whispers or yells next to me I might get angry, but I certainly have no right to label them as "criminals" and demand the government do something about it.

 

 

I'll grant you this point. That came out wrong and unnecessarily hostile. What I meant was to say interaction is something that happens on MMOs. You can be a solo-player, that is completely up to you, but the game isn't single-player. You can't get aggravated every time someone does something that rubs you the wrong way If you are such a person you probably won't enjoy the game, just that...

 

Honestly if you had not made your post a warning, and had not advised people to stay away, I doubt that I would have responded to you. I do agree that having snowballs thrown at my characters, or having someone use the different chat methods to communicate do not bother me at all. However, the plague thing did adversely affect some in a way that I think that it shouldn't have, and one of the reasons that I got the relic that prevented my characters from getting or spreading the plague is so I would not be able to inflict this harm onto others.

[Kain_Turinbar]

[OFFTOPIC]

The HK-51 Loyalty Chip is found at the end of Maelstrom Prison/Foundry on Hard Mode only. It can be soloed at level 55, but it isn't trivial.

[/OFFTOPIC]

 

Ahh, I had heard that both the FPs you have to do for parts are easily soloable in 72s.

[Tailsfortales]

 

When you are sick don't you also miss school/work because you don't feel up for it? How is it any different? Don't you go buy medicine to improve your condition?

 

Although this isn't addressed towards me, it is an open forum to subs, so; no I don't because when I'm sick I don't take medicine because I never have any and I don't feel the need to take any since I'm rarely sick I usually get over it in 2 days, as for work and school, I do neither so, no. Medicine doesn't improve a condition either, it simply fights the infection and that depends on how much immunity you have and how much you are resistant to the medication.

But then again, this is also an online game so arguing real life logic with ingame logic is kind of a moot point. Nevertheless, people will complaing about anything they see unfit or something that goes against their beliefs/views.

[Jamalzero]

My comment was that even thought this is a multiplayer game it is possible to play entirely solo. That being an MMO doesn't mean you are required to interact with others unless you chose to outside of a PVP server.

 

Unless you are ONLY doing storyline and ONLY using vendors to sell and buy items nope you're not ONLY playing solo...

[Jamalzero]

You're not required to interact with them but you are required to deal with their presence.

 

Thank you I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Jamalzero]

In real life we have laws that are designed to control people actions...

 

Yeah totally Tell that to the people in the Boston marathon... the law totally controlled that terrorist actions...

Edited January 30, 2014 by Jamalzero

[Reno_Tarshil]

Yeah totally Tell that to the people in the Boston marathon... the law totally controlled that terrorist actions...

 

Arguments like those are why you can't really apply them to a video game. You're not going to die or get scarred for life in a video game. Just because someone ganked you or "stole" your mob or quest item..

[Jamalzero]

Back to real life examples - if I get thrown a snowball, if someone coughs next to me and I catch the flu, if someone grabs that last newspaper while I'm counting the change, if someone whispers or yells next to me I might get angry, but I certainly have no right to label them as "criminals" and demand the government do something about it.

 

 

I'll grant you this point. That came out wrong and unnecessarily hostile. What I meant was to say interaction is something that happens on MMOs. You can be a solo-player, that is completely up to you, but the game isn't single-player. You can't get aggravated every time someone does something that rubs you the wrong way If you are such a person you probably won't enjoy the game, just that...

 

Yes, again another post I was trying get across after reading OP other people can not control the actions of other people whether in game or real life which is what makes this a multiplayer game

[Jamalzero]

Arguments like those are why you can't really apply them to a video game. You're not going to die or get scarred for life in a video game. Just because someone ganked you or "stole" your mob or quest item..

 

The argument was aimed at his laws comment and I was being sarcastic I didn't think I had to say that because I had the rolls eyes emote in there...

[SelvesteSand]

A griefer is defined as "(in an online game or community) a person who harasses or deliberately provokes other players or members in order to spoil their enjoyment". That is exactly what is happening on the Fleet as part of the Rakghoul event. Griefers know full well what they are doing and that they are imposing a repetitive and frequent interrupt effect on other players thereby spoiling their enjoyment of the game.

You're contradicting yourself with that definition of griefing. Key line "in order to spoil their enjoyment"; that's like when SWTOR's Code of Conduct talks about intent. If a person harasses or deliberately provokes other players in order to spoil their enjoyment, it is griefing, yes, but that is NOT what is happening here. In this case, people do it in order to fulfill mission or achievement objectives. A side effect may be that they are spoiling other players' enjoyment, and the person doing it may even feel bad about it, but if that's not his specific reason for doing it, it's not griefing.

Edited April 14, 2015 by SelvesteSand

[Ghisallo]

Wow lots of necros lately Edited April 14, 2015 by Ghisallo

[SelvesteSand]

Wow lots of necros lately

Weird, I got an e-mail saying that you'd posted an entirely different comment.

 

Anyway, Sith Sorcerers are allowed to necromance.

[GadgetDon]

I just thought I should leave this warning for the new players and the few that still remain confused and complain whenever someone kills them while questing, throws a snowball at them, infects them, or something similar...

 

This is NOT a single player game, and you are no more entitled to control the other players actions towards you as you are in real life.

 

This is also not a mandatory PVP game, you are supposed to be able to choose when others can interfere with your game play and attack you. The idea that you can be flagged by PVE activities (join a heroic and heal a teammate), tricked into flagging yourself, or even be killed/infected/debuffed/hit with an aura while not being flagged is against that.

 

If this were a mandatory PVP game, it would die. If they would fix the issues where those who choose not to PVP still can be interfered with, it would be a stronger game.

 

And "I'll do this because I can, so shut up and take it" isn't the mark of a player, it's the mark of a bully.

[Djiini]

I can play it like a single player game if I want.

[Ghisallo]

This is also not a mandatory PVP game, you are supposed to be able to choose when others can interfere with your game play and attack you. The idea that you can be flagged by PVE activities (join a heroic and heal a teammate), tricked into flagging yourself, or even be killed/infected/debuffed/hit with an aura while not being flagged is against that.

 

If this were a mandatory PVP game, it would die. If they would fix the issues where those who choose not to PVP still can be interfered with, it would be a stronger game.

 

And "I'll do this because I can, so shut up and take it" isn't the mark of a player, it's the mark of a bully.

 

Kinda a straw man here. This is an MMORPG that contains PvP and PvE. However both share the MMO bit. Yeah you can do nothing but solo an MMORPG BUT because of that pesky "MMO" bit... expect an exclusively solo experience to have some inconveniences.

 

Tis the nature of the beast.

[Ghisallo]

Weird, I got an e-mail saying that you'd posted an entirely different comment.

 

Anyway, Sith Sorcerers are allowed to necromance.

 

Lol...I had put up a different response until I said "oh jeepers this is a necro isn't it.". And necromance sound creepy... Nec...romance.

[GadgetDon]

Kinda a straw man here. This is an MMORPG that contains PvP and PvE. However both share the MMO bit. Yeah you can do nothing but solo an MMORPG BUT because of that pesky "MMO" bit... expect an exclusively solo experience to have some inconveniences.

 

Tis the nature of the beast.

 

I love teaming with other players for flashpoints, heroics, ops, and even warzones (where you're on a team working towards objectives). That's the MMO part I like. But I despise with a never ending burning hate the AAR churning PVPers who want to kill people not trying to participate in PVP and so use mechanisms like the infection, hiding in dead bodies with the loot flag, and all the other despicable tricks trying to get someone with no desire to engage in PVP to get flagged so they can get taken out. Those who do that are scum.

[DuckManJedi]

My first experience recently of the Republic Fleet:

 

1) Infected by the Rakghoul plague.

2) Proceed to complete the Esseles FP while puking.

3) Eventually succumb to a long, painful death.

 

[WorldSmasher]

I was thinking, "Hey, ain't the Rakghoul Outbreak event over already? Why are people still whining about it...?" Then I saw the date of the OP, and then I thought, "Not only is the event over, but this one is from last year! LOL" (I actually thought, "Heh" and not "LOL")