SWTOR is NOT a single player game!

[Bleeters]

You stated in another thread that once you are infected you can't quest because you constantly freeze (although I don't agree, that's not the point).

 

When you are sick don't you also miss school/work because you don't feel up for it? How is it any different? Don't you go buy medicine to improve your condition?

 

This particular event attempts to "replicate" what would happen if you contracted a disease. How is that bad game mechanics?

 

The point some people (including yourself) are making is that the event is forced. Well of course it is, as it should be! A disease is forced, no one opts-in to contracting a disease.

Fair enough. Let's also have THORN guards stationed at every space port and around the fleet who shoot you on sight once you proceed to a stage two infection. Wouldn't want to undermine that authentic outbreak experience, after all.

[MidichIorian]

It's a single player games with a bunch of poorly programmed bots.

[Expo-Nential]

... if it actually replicated what happens when someone is infected with the Rakghoul Plague, our Characters would be turned into Rakghouls ...

Now there's a topic worthy of it's own thread

[Bleeters]

Not to mention, if it actually replicated what happens when someone is infected with the Rakghoul Plague, our Characters would be turned into Rakghouls yet we don't

World of Warcraft actually had a similar thing involving a zombie plague outbreak that did exactly what you just brought up. It was actually pretty hilarious, as players that turned into zombies could attack other players or npcs to turn them as well, occasionally culminating in vast undead hordes that temporarily took over entire hub cities when people really got organised.

 

Of course, this was also balanced out by a) certain classes being able to dispel the plague from themselves and other people, albeit with increasing difficulty the longer the event ran, b) zombie players being attackable by everyone else c) city guards attacking zombie players on sight, and d) zombies being slower moving than players to the point that even a level 1 could outrun you if they really wanted.

 

In short, it did this a whole plague thing a lot better.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Bleeters

[Reno_Tarshil]

It's a bit difficult to find a group of lvl50s to do heroics (especially the event one). Lvl55s just tell me to go home and level up because lvl50s are still "babies with fragile armor".

 

Try being Level 22 and wanting to do the Heroic.

[Kulyok]

Oh, wow, I completely forgot that infecting other players gives rep/achieve. Now I understand why people are lying in wait in the fleet arrival point/GTN section. Myahaha. My chars are definitely in hiding this week Though I should go and play the event and get myself Newcomer rep just to buy those relics for my levelling chars.

 

It is a bit annoying, I admit - I count the coins, so 2000 for each vaccine is a bit steep. But still, it's an interesting event.

And, yeah, best luck for grouping for the heroic is for 55lvl chars(tried with my lvl48 mara, took about fifteen minutes and one failed group).

[Aries_cz]

That's right, the Republic players are supposed to already be immune to it, bit of a plot gap there I think.

 

Viruses evolve. That is all

[Sadishist]

You don't seem to know what logic means. Sorry, but there is no logic in your response to Dweessies. His logic however is impeccable. All you are doing is stating you want the goodies that go with the achievement. That is better described as your desire or wish, not "logic". I for example might desire all plague spreaders to be forcibly confined to their quarters till all signs of the plague are over and that they pay hefty fines to all persons being griefed - far more "realistic" as to what would actually happen, but that is just my wish.

 

Best logic- if you don't like this game, don't play.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Sadishist

[Vendd]

Best logic- if you don't like this game, don't play.

 

I like the game, otherwise I wouldn't play it. I just don't like the Rakghoul event and the griefing of players who aren't participating and simply want to access their mail, buy/sell some items on the GTN or access their cargo holds.

 

I could however support a more realistic Event involving a bounty on plague bringers, their shooting on sight as soon as they arrived on the Fleet and/ or incapacitating them till the plague Event passed, or fining them a % of accumulated credits for each player infected. That would be an event worth playing and would be great fun.

[Sadishist]

I like the game, otherwise I wouldn't play it. I just don't like the Rakghoul event and the griefing of players who aren't participating and simply want to access their mail, buy/sell some items on the GTN or access their cargo holds.

 

I could however support a more realistic Event involving a bounty on plague bringers, their shooting on sight as soon as they arrived on the Fleet and/ or incapacitating them till the plague Event passed, or fining them a % of accumulated credits for each player infected. That would be an event worth playing and would be great fun.

 

Yeah but keep in mind that events are just events- temporary. There will be some you like, some you hate. But it's only a week. If you got good ideas on how to improve it, post it in the suggestion forum to let the devs know. But it's wrong to bash players who are just playing by what the devs intended, whether you agree with the devs or not.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Sadishist

[Halinalle]

Try being Level 22 and wanting to do the Heroic.

 

I know... I don't even bother bringing my 26s to Alderaan just because it's very annoying to find a group. I managed to do H4 with my lvl42 trooper once.

[Zorvan]

Best logic- if you don't like this game, don't play.

 

And people who use the "don't like it don't play" logic are also the first ones to wonder "where did everyone go?" when people decide to follow their advice.

[Reno_Tarshil]

And people who use the "don't like it don't play" logic are also the first ones to wonder "where did everyone go?" when people decide to follow their advice.

 

Except people have a vendetta against this game, so they don't really leave at all.

[Vendd]

Yeah but keep in mind that events are just events- temporary. There will be some you like, some you hate. But it's only a week. If you got good ideas on how to improve it, post it in the suggestion forum to let the devs know. But it's wrong to bash players who are just playing by what the devs intended, whether you agree with the devs or not.

 

I haven't "bashed" any players.The thread started with Rakghoul Event lovers "bashing" Rakghoul Event haters. Event lovers seem to want to suppress the views of players who don't like the Event.

 

The problem is indeed with Event designers who included a mechanic that allowed plague bearers to incapacitate non-Event participants, with no means of redress without cost for players who do not wish to participate in the Event. Event designers deliberately flouted the spirit of their own Rules of Conduct to include this mechanic which is in effect a breach of faith with subscribers. What their motivations were I have no idea, but they knew what they were doing and I have no doubt that they will be aware of the range of player reactions to this. What it means for me and others is that our enjoyment of the rest of the game is now cruelled for the rest of the Event.

[AlexDougherty]

Not everyone in the republic.

 

No, not everyone, just our characters. The immunity to the rakghoul plague for the Republic characters is established in the Taris world arc, it's already established. Others could get infected, but our republic characters have already been established as immune, so why can they get infected?.

[AlexDougherty]

Viruses evolve. That is all

 

Fair enough.

[Qvasar]

I haven't "bashed" any players.The thread started with Rakghoul Event lovers "bashing" Rakghoul Event haters. Event lovers seem to want to suppress the views of players who don't like the Event.

The intent of the thread is not to bash on anyone, quite the opposite. The intent is to attempt to reason with event "haters" (not just this event) in order to say just this:

 

Events are temporary occurrences which may or may not interfere with your gameplay in a manner in which you my like or not. Events may be opt-in or opt-out:

• Chevin, Gree, and Bounty Hunter events are opt-in.
  
• Rakghoul event is opt-out (vaccine).
  
• Life Day event is opt-out (click off buff).
  

This is how the events were designed and intended to be played, you may or may not agree, and that is completely up to you. That however gives you no right of calling out other players for doing what they are supposed to be doing much less ask them to not do a quest which is beneficial to them.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Qvasar

[Vendd]

This is how the events were designed and intended to be played, you may or may not agree, and that is completely up to you. That however gives you no right of calling out other players for doing what they are supposed to be doing much less ask them to not do a quest which is beneficial to them.

 

Given your own inflammatory contributions to this thread you are hardly in a position to be pointing the finger at anyone.

 

Griefing is griefing and should be called out wherever it occurs. A griefer is defined as "(in an online game or community) a person who harasses or deliberately provokes other players or members in order to spoil their enjoyment". That is exactly what is happening on the Fleet as part of the Rakghoul event. Griefers know full well what they are doing and that they are imposing a repetitive and frequent interrupt effect on other players thereby spoiling their enjoyment of the game.

 

Dweessies summed up the situation very nicely earlier in this thread when he said: "I hate to use logic on a gaming forum, but when you accept a quest whose stated purpose is for you to grief 3 other players, you are in fact agreeing to become a griefer. The only way to avoid being a griefer in this case is to give a bad quest like the "infect 3 players" quest a decline." I completely agree.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I just thought I should leave this warning for the new players and the few that still remain confused and complain whenever someone kills them while questing, throws a snowball at them, infects them, or something similar...

 

This is NOT a single player game, and you are no more entitled to control the other players actions towards you as you are in real life.

 

This is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game, meaning other people will interact with you and interfere with your gameplay, both in a way favorable to you, or not...

 

You must either accept this fact or rethink your decision of playing this genre of games.

 

10 years ago, the multiplayer crowd invaded single-player games communities for the very first time.

 

They posted the same questionm over and over ands over and over and over again :

 

"Why can't this single-player game be an multiplayer game ?"

And : "Can't you make it an multiplayer game out of it ?"

And : "It would be SWEET if this was an multiplayer game !"

And : "Why didn't you do this as an multiplayer game ?"

And : "Single-player is boring. I want to bring in my friends !"

And : "Wouldn't it be great to be able to play this single-player game with my friends ???"

 

People just didn't get it. They just didsn't understand that the game was meant to be an single-player game ONLY.

 

"This game is NOT an multiplayer game !"

 

Yet people were invading the forums with their multiplayer wishes. They copuld have stayed out because the game was NOT an multiplayer game - but no, they went INTO the forums BECAUSE of their multiplayer wishes.

 

In a way, they were Multiplayer Trolls.

 

Nowadays, the multiplayer crowde has won. Singleplayer games are dying out. Everybody cries "hooray !".

But that's partly because MP = indirect DRM, nowadays, but that's a different story.

 

People just didn't accept that single-player games were meant to be single-player games, not multiplayer games. But still, they forced the developers on. "Come on, make an multiplayer game out of it !"

 

The result is what we see today : How many real singleplayer games do exist nowadays ? None. All died out. The MP crowd has won. "We are Borg, err, Multiplayer. Resistance is futile. We will convert ALL developers to our cause !"

 

That there is NOT A SINGLE ONE Star Wars single-player game since 10 years now is ming-bioggling. So much wasted potential.

Okay, there's the Lego Star Wars games, but do they count ? Hardly, because they are console games not very good converted to the PC. TFU ? BAH ! "Full Metal Destruction Game to boost the player's epeen." "republic Commando" was meant to be an MP game as well. "Republic Heroes" is forgotten, because it isn't dark, it isn't gritty, it isn't a shooter, it isn't multiplayer.

 

So, thank you for stating the obvious : "SWTOR is NOT a single player game !" Thank you for throwing me out. Thank you.

Edited January 23, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[Merwanor]

SWTOR is not a single player game, but it should have been....

[Captiosus]

This is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game, meaning other people will interact with you and interfere with your gameplay, both in a way favorable to you, or not...

 

I can't believe you wrote that with the intent to be taken seriously.

 

UO, DAoC, SWG, EQ, EQ2, CoH/V, and, yes, even WoW are MMORPGs.

 

TOR is a hallway game that you can play single player like KOTOR and KOTOR2, only you might run into other people. It's barely an MMO by game definition because the ONLY THING you actually NEED other people for are Operations, and you can get decent end game gear without ever setting foot in one. It is, by all accounts, the most single player oriented "MMO" on the market today, even including all the modern conveniences that WoW has put in to their game which has made it easier to "solo" group (LFG, LFR, etc).

 

Also, none of the aforementioned games actually built a leveling design that penalized players for grouping with other players who weren't your class. All evidence of TOR points to it being a glorified single player game with opt-in cooperative/competitive multiplayer.

 

Secondly, your attempt to justify griefing by trying to roll it into your definition of "MMORPG" is quaint. Too bad it's also wrong. Someone intentionally taking the plague to Fleet - or worse, Tython/Korriban or Coruscant/Dromand Kass - just to get their jollies off by making the lower level players' experience less fun is the very definition of griefing. Imagine new F2P players signing in for the first time: They can't afford the vaccine, not at 2k a pop, and having some high level come in and infect them and laugh about it in planet general chat pretty much ensures they won't walk away with a good impression. And yet, playing my newb Jedi Knight this week, I've seen several 55s do precisely this and then talk smack in general chat.

 

Just because an event is temporary doesn't give anyone an excuse to be a jerk and purposely griefing lowbies is a clear violation of the TOS. Not to mention, BW/EA has a vested interest in making lowbies' gameplay appealling since getting new microtransaction/F2P players is the foundation of their business model now.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Captiosus

[Qvasar]

A griefer is defined as "(in an online game or community) a person who harasses or deliberately provokes other players or members in order to spoil their enjoyment".

I COMPLETELY agree.

But the point is no one is doing this to spoil your enjoyment. We are doing this because it's part of the event we are participating in, and to some extent because we need it for the tokens to buy the mounts/pets we want. It has nothing to do with griefing/harassment. There is no INTENT here, and as BioWare so clearly stated in the Rules of Conduct, INTENT is the keyword towards determining what is acceptable or not.

Can you understand this point of view? Because if you can't there is no point in arguing.

 

Dweessies summed up the situation very nicely earlier in this thread when he said:

I know what he said, and if there were no quest rewards for it I would be inclined to agree. But, I'm a completionist/achievement hunter/collector and I will not have something at 99.9% because of this whole situation. That would pretty much ruin my gameplay as well. Hence the logic in his argument is completely illogical to me, since it prevents me from "completing" the event, which is the ONLY thing I care about.

 

====================

Someone intentionally taking the plague to Fleet - or worse, Tython/Korriban or Coruscant/Dromand Kass - just to get their jollies off by making the lower level players' experience less fun is the very definition of griefing.

Do you actually believe people are doing it with the intention of "getting their jollies off"? Because I can most certainly tell you that is not the case. People are going to origin planets because it's nearly impossible to get the quest done on Alderaan/Fleet in under 1 hour. Origin planets are easy since no one is vaccinated.

 

But I do see your point - Origin planets are supposed to be safe zones, so I wouldn't object if BioWare decided to put guard NPCs there to protect low level players.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Qvasar

[kimdante]

Taking a vaccine after you've already contracted a virus doesn't really make sense...

 

Shooting lightning out of your fingertips doesn't really make sense either.

 

Or participating in a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-playing Game in a dynamic, ever-changing digital world and wishing, no expecting, not to interact with other players.

Edited January 23, 2014 by kimdante

[Blackholeskipper]

Shooting lightning out of your fingertips doesn't really make sense either.

 

Or participating in a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-playing Game in a dynamic, ever-changing digital world and wishing, no expecting, not to interact with other players.

 

You missed what the OP was saying (it's right above my comment too)...

When you are sick don't you also miss school/work because you don't feel up for it? How is it any different? Don't you go buy medicine to improve your condition?

 

This particular event attempts to "replicate" what would happen if you contracted a disease. How is that bad game mechanics?

 

He was arguing that the event is good because it's "realistic."

 

And actually, according to the OP's logic, shooting lightning out of your fingertips would be an excellent mechanic because it attempts to replicate... shooting lightning out of your fingertips. Like in the movies. That's a lore-thing and has nothing to do with how realistic something is. If we cared about the game being realistic, we wouldn't be playing swtor.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Blackholeskipper

[Jeweledleah]

I can't believe you wrote that with the intent to be taken seriously.

 

UO, DAoC, SWG, EQ, EQ2, CoH/V, and, yes, even WoW are MMORPGs.

 

TOR is a hallway game that you can play single player like KOTOR and KOTOR2, only you might run into other people. It's barely an MMO by game definition because the ONLY THING you actually NEED other people for are Operations, and you can get decent end game gear without ever setting foot in one. It is, by all accounts, the most single player oriented "MMO" on the market today, even including all the modern conveniences that WoW has put in to their game which has made it easier to "solo" group (LFG, LFR, etc).

 

Also, none of the aforementioned games actually built a leveling design that penalized players for grouping with other players who weren't your class. All evidence of TOR points to it being a glorified single player game with opt-in cooperative/competitive multiplayer.

 

Secondly, your attempt to justify griefing by trying to roll it into your definition of "MMORPG" is quaint. Too bad it's also wrong. Someone intentionally taking the plague to Fleet - or worse, Tython/Korriban or Coruscant/Dromand Kass - just to get their jollies off by making the lower level players' experience less fun is the very definition of griefing. Imagine new F2P players signing in for the first time: They can't afford the vaccine, not at 2k a pop, and having some high level come in and infect them and laugh about it in planet general chat pretty much ensures they won't walk away with a good impression. And yet, playing my newb Jedi Knight this week, I've seen several 55s do precisely this and then talk smack in general chat.

 

Just because an event is temporary doesn't give anyone an excuse to be a jerk and purposely griefing lowbies is a clear violation of the TOS. Not to mention, BW/EA has a vested interest in making lowbies' gameplay appealling since getting new microtransaction/F2P players is the foundation of their business model now.

 

I'm sorry, what?

 

every single game you have named can be played at least partway solo. and every single game you name is part of the old guard, from the time when MMO's were niche, only accessible to people with too much free time. that time is long past. TOR is one of the few modern games I know that not only offers group content in a starting area, and continues to offer it all the way through leveling. Every single game with exception of GW2 (becasue of that level scaling deal) you can outlevel group content and then solo it, just like in TOR. every single modern MMO makes it not only possible, but its pretty much a primary model - to play it solo. you could group. but you are NOT FORCED to group.

 

in fact? WoW was the game that started the trend.

 

when I first started playing TOR, I felt like it was one of the few more multiplayer games on the market, becasue it has specific mechanics that actively encourage you to group. you have spectator mode for class stories, you have integrated cutscenes that involve all the characters for everything else, you get bonus experience (instead of penalty like WoW for example) for grouping and the entire mechanic of social points revolves around grouping in some fashion.

 

operations are FAR from the only content that you need other people for. pvp you need other people for. planetary quests you need other people for. galactic star fighter you need other people for. flashpoints if done at level you need other people for.

 

just becasue the game is one of the more solo friendly games out there, doesn't make it a solo game. NEEDING people to do most things in a game is not a good design, because it requires continuous time most people who can actualy PAY - cannot afford, since they kinda sorta have to go to work. why do you think WoW blew up as it did? becasue it was the first game that offered people an opportunity to play an MMO without having to wait for a group for every single thing. this IS the trend in MMO's. give people opportunity to group, but not penalizing them for not being able to for any significant length of time.

 

I do agree that infecting new players is crap, though considering there's an achievement attached to it, its not just to troll and bioware did mess up by allowing it to happen to this extent. solution you be either not let infected onto starter planets and place an npc on a fleet that can cure vaccine for free through a quick convo, taking care of "I cannot afford 2k" complaint (and vaccine SHOULD persist through death)

 

but your argument for SWTOR only being half an MMO? wut? seriously? I think your definition of MMORPG needs re examining. that and claim that TOR penalizes you for leveling with people of not your class, again wut? where, how? or do you consider spectator mode a penalty? is that where the problem lies (and btw, when you level with a person of the same class, you still trade spectator mode, or just split up for the length of that quest. why? becasue its supposed to be a personal story, so they want you to have control of every single answer you make. that is NOT a penalty and that is NOT an indication its a solo game, contrary to what you'd like to believe)