Sportiva Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Yet... we have threads fairly regularly by players asking for them to bring <xyz> pack back in the CM. AND.. they sell... so yeah.. not everyone welcomes embargoed packs back.. but many do. They are serving the customer desires. Personally, I made a truck load of credits when they bring back embargoed packs. It floods the market with desireable items at discount prices. I made 20M credits alone simply buying up Music Probes when they recently flooded the market and sold for under 1M credits.. and I held them until the market returned to the more normal prices for this particular item. I should have bought more of them to be hones. But if there is no risk of missing out on an item because it will be brought back at a later date and if even the most rare item are always a available for ~10 million credits, what is the motivation for buying gambling packs? If they continue to follow this path, BW should just put the items up for direct sale. It is an economic reality that these "digital" items need to a degree of scarcity to them in order to maintain any intrinsic value with customers. Edited January 17, 2014 by Sportiva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) But if there is no risk of missing out on an item because it will be brought back at a later date and if even the most rare item are always a available for ~10 million credits, what is the motivation for buying gambling packs? Players come and go in MMOs all the time. Which is why we see threads where newer players want access to old stuff that the long time veterans have. Players change tastes all the time.. and sometimes regret not having gotten something from a earlier pack. And let's not forget the periodic whine-thread where someone wants something from a retired pack, but don't like the prices of the item on the GTN (due to current rarity). As to what the motivation is to buy packs.... apparently players love em.. a lot. Not all players of course... but many players do. Edited January 17, 2014 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyMcGee Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 I want to buy 14k package. How do I do that? It came up as an option for me on the website, after I clicked to buy 5500 coins (before the confirmation or payment pages). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyMcGee Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) As to what the motivation is to buy packs.... apparently players love em.. a lot. Not all players of course... but many players do. I love to collect. I like the shiny 100% greens in my Collection. And as Andryah said, which I rudely snipped, sometimes you want something later, so I prefer to buy it now, have all the items and then I have all my options open later. For example, I didn't like some of the lore armours. However, some of them I love now that we can dye them. If I hadn't bought them at the time, they might have then changed the dyeing rule and maybe they wouldn't be available anymore. Or one of my toons may have a personality change and want to wear something new and I want to be able to choose from every outfit and then I'd need to match their weapon and then their vehicle and then their pet... so the ugly pet I may not have liked might now become the ultimate accessory for their new look. Basically I just want all content open to me, so I max all packs and I don't have to worry I'll miss out on something later. Edited January 17, 2014 by CrazyMcGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 how is this option showing up for people? I am a subscriber, purchased the 40 dollar bundle a few times but do not see this option in game or on the website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyMcGee Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 It came up as an option for me on the website, after I clicked to buy 5500 coins (before the confirmation or payment pages). @illgot, lol, my post was like 2 above yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMaulUK Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Players are driving the market, not Bioware. And it's player choice.... let the players play the way they want to IMO.. including the trade market for CM pack items. . trust the fanboy to jump to Biowares defence AGAIN. Actually it IS Bioware. They set the % rates for the drops. I don't purchase CC Packs any more for the reasons I stated earlier. They are more than worthless. The highest ticket valued item I ever had in a CC Pack was around 400k - thats it. So I stopped. Bioware need to add more value to these packs either drop the price or add a better spread of items and stop giving players green or yellow crystals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 trust the fanboy to jump to Biowares defence AGAIN. Actually it IS Bioware. They set the % rates for the drops. I don't purchase CC Packs any more for the reasons I stated earlier. They are more than worthless. The highest ticket valued item I ever had in a CC Pack was around 400k - thats it. So I stopped. Bioware need to add more value to these packs either drop the price or add a better spread of items and stop giving players green or yellow crystals! Nah it's the players. They undercut and undercut until it stabilizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyMcGee Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 trust the fanboy to jump to Biowares defence AGAIN. Actually it IS Bioware. They set the % rates for the drops. I don't purchase CC Packs any more for the reasons I stated earlier. They are more than worthless. The highest ticket valued item I ever had in a CC Pack was around 400k - thats it. So I stopped. Bioware need to add more value to these packs either drop the price or add a better spread of items and stop giving players green or yellow crystals! Well I assume you'll be calling me names too, because I agree with Andryah. BW is a business. If the packs weren't selling as well as they wanted, they would change them as you suggest. They haven't. That suggests that plenty of people don't have your problem with them so, as Andryah said, the players are driving the market. If no packs sold, they would change it. But look at the GTN - loads of people are buying the packs and loads of people are buying the items off GTN. So clearly not everyone thinks they are worthless, myself included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesahgo Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I'd like to do this, but the option isn't appearing for me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) trust the fanboy to jump to Biowares defence AGAIN. Actually it IS Bioware. They set the % rates for the drops. I don't purchase CC Packs any more for the reasons I stated earlier. They are more than worthless. The highest ticket valued item I ever had in a CC Pack was around 400k - thats it. So I stopped. Bioware need to add more value to these packs either drop the price or add a better spread of items and stop giving players green or yellow crystals! Complete and utter nonsense. But hey.. I certainly understand this to be your personal opinion. Edited January 17, 2014 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) The new Forza game for Xbox One has a $40 car pack that you can't get unless you buy it. That is wrong for gaming imo. Titanfall says they won't have micro-transactions even though it's backed by EA so it'll be interesting to see how that goes. It is a choice but I wonder what the future of gaming will bring, just hope the higher ups are smart about it. lol I still remember EA selling one car for $100 in Need For Speed World Online. About busted a gut laughing my *** off and immediately uninstalled the game, never to return. Edited January 17, 2014 by Zorvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preykousis Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Also can't see the option, click 5500 and nothing pops up between purchases. From the UK if that matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorei Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Also can't see the option, click 5500 and nothing pops up between purchases. From the UK if that matters I was able to purchase them when I bought some more cartel coins for server transfers. I'm from Germany. Maybe it does matter how much you've bought before. I tested in on my other account that only uses his complimentary cartel coins and I didn't get the bigger payment option there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) I've purchased my fair share of coins and have been all for the CM but lately I've been questioning what this means for gaming. I'm kinda torn right now, I love this game and want it to succeed but something feels weird about the CM and these types of transactions in general. Is the evil corporate empire taking advantage of us gamers? You can't tell me we wouldn't buy DLC expansions given the $ we spend on hypercrates. What's best for gaming? I've been against microtransactions from the off. I don't like the direction that the industry has taken in that regard. If I want a game I want the complete package to do with what I will. I don't want to have to buy some 20 minute quest DLC for $15, or some outfit. If it's worth putting in the game it's worth putting in from the beginning (for box sales), or patched in later as part of a larger paid expansion, or included as part of the content patching process. And yes, I think Makeb, or something like Shivvering Isles for Oblivion, is good DLC because they're content rich additions, in contrast to something like the infamous horse armor DLC. Companies like it though because for the player's wallet it's a death by a thousand paper cuts. The player doesn't realize that even if that item is "cheap" they're just going to be pumping out more that you're going to want (or need), so that you spend more and more, and before you realize it you've spent hundreds of dollars on fluffy trinkets. Plenty of people buy into it (or fall for it, depending on your perspective) so companies love the model. Just compare that all of Makeb previously cost about the same as a piece of direct-purchased armor from the CM. In my opinion it's deceptive and set up specifically to prey upon people in a way that they don't realize they're being made for fools. See articles like this for the ways that some F2P games try to coerce you into spending more money. Another part of it that I'm sure has even affected SWTOR is that it changes how decisions are made for content's goals and direction. What I mean is that a discussion about how to create a new feature might change from "wouldn't it be cool if" to "great, now how can we get money for that". Of course people can spend their money however they want and I'm not going to try to stop them. And of course some implementations aren't as bad as others, although some are down right unethical in my opinion. As for SWTOR it's not even close to the worst, as they've left gameplay alone for the most part and have left it to pretty much only cosmetics. But it is a part of a trend that I think has had an overall negative effect on the industry, despite the money it has generated (or because of it). Edited February 7, 2014 by MillionsKNives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) @illgot, lol, my post was like 2 above yours lol, happens when I don't read more than the first page I also tend to skim and miss a lot of details. Edited February 7, 2014 by illgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyMcGee Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 The player doesn't realize that even if that item is "cheap" they're just going to be pumping out more that you're going to want (or need), so that you spend more and more, and before you realize it you've spent hundreds of dollars on fluffy trinkets. Plenty of people buy into it (or fall for it, depending on your perspective) so companies love the model. Just compare that all of Makeb previously cost about the same as a piece of direct-purchased armor from the CM. In my opinion it's deceptive and set up specifically to prey upon people in a way that they don't realize they're being made for fools. See articles like this for the ways that some F2P games try to coerce you into spending more money. I think everyone is responsible for their own spending and I reject your premise that we are all fools being taken advantage of. BW aren't forcing us to buy these items and I don't buy into the philosophy that everyone is stupid. There has to be a degree of personal responsibility here. If someone has a problem with their spending, then they need to take steps to deal with it. I know how much I spend on Cartel Coins and I know I can afford that out of my budget for entertainment. What I would not want is BW, or any other company, not selling me something because other people can't be trusted with it. Of course BW are trying to manipulate us into spending more money. Every single business out there is trying that. Hell, not even just companies trying to make a profit. I make a regular donation to a charity and they called me the other day to ask me to give more, by telling me about all the people who are suffering and dying. Is it fair for them to call me and tell me about people who have had their limbs cut off with machetes to try and squeeze some more money out of me? Does doing it for a good cause negate the fact that they are trying to emotionally blackmail me? Pretty much everyone wants you to give them money and they will do anything they can to persuade you to give it to them. I don't feel like SWTOR pushes micro-transactions very hard. Yes, there are some nice options available. But it's not like they are pushing it. Unless you click to open the cartel market, you wouldn't even know what was there - and that was your choice to click it. For example, one fairly obvious thing they could do would be to advertise cartel stuff on loading screens. They haven't done that, not yet at least. So where is all this coercion? Another part of it that I'm sure has even affected SWTOR is that it changes how decisions are made for content's goals and direction. What I mean is that a discussion about how to create a new feature might change from "wouldn't it be cool if" to "great, now how can we get money for that". That's because BW is a business. No decision about SWTOR has ever been made just because it might be cool, nor any other game. Games are not free. No one makes them out of the goodness of their heart because they want to make people smile. I'm sure someone can quote a few random games that are actually free, but I'm talking about the gaming industry in general. It's a business. They are making a product and they want to make money from it. I'm sure the actual games developers will come up with an idea about something that might be cool, but it will be followed by a discussion about how much that would improve the game and whether it will be profitable. Will it keep subs, will it bring new subs, will it bring direct revenue? Of course BW will be having these conversations. Every company does and I'm not sure why it would be surprising, nor unethical. It's just capitalism and it may not be pretty, but it's the world we live in and communism has never worked well, so what is it you would like to see work differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I think everyone is responsible for their own spending and I reject your premise that we are all fools being taken advantage of. BW aren't forcing us to buy these items and I don't buy into the philosophy that everyone is stupid. There has to be a degree of personal responsibility here. If someone has a problem with their spending, then they need to take steps to deal with it. I know how much I spend on Cartel Coins and I know I can afford that out of my budget for entertainment. No need to put words in my mouth. I never said that everyone is a fool being taken advantage of. However I would say that there are plenty of fools being taken advantage of in this and other games. Anyone who spends hundreds of dollars in a game like Candy Crush just to beat an encounter designed to increasingly "require" money to progress is a fool in my opinion. Or anyone who plays Farmville . In this game some of those would come in the form of people who spend lots of money chasing the shiny from packs. As for personal responsibility I already said that it's their money and they can spend it how they wish. I'm not trying to tell you or anyone else how you should be spending it. But that doesn't mean that I have to agree with the tactics that these games are employing. What I would not want is BW, or any other company, not selling me something because other people can't be trusted with it. Of course BW are trying to manipulate us into spending more money. Every single business out there is trying that. Hell, not even just companies trying to make a profit. I make a regular donation to a charity and they called me the other day to ask me to give more, by telling me about all the people who are suffering and dying. Is it fair for them to call me and tell me about people who have had their limbs cut off with machetes to try and squeeze some more money out of me? Does doing it for a good cause negate the fact that they are trying to emotionally blackmail me? I suggest you take a look at the article I posted as to some methods that are being used in F2P games. Here's an excerpt from the summary, "The above mechanics are not meant to be exhaustive, but give a basic overview of key techniques used in coercive monetization model based games to defeat a customer's ability to make informed choices about the costs and values in these products." Does it sound very ethical to purposely design your product so that your customers make uninformed choices on their purchases? And yes, the article is just that man's (informed) opinion, but from the evidence and examples he gives I agree with his conclusion. Pretty much everyone wants you to give them money and they will do anything they can to persuade you to give it to them. I don't feel like SWTOR pushes micro-transactions very hard. Yes, there are some nice options available. But it's not like they are pushing it. Unless you click to open the cartel market, you wouldn't even know what was there - and that was your choice to click it. For example, one fairly obvious thing they could do would be to advertise cartel stuff on loading screens. They haven't done that, not yet at least. So where is all this coercion? At no point did I specify that SWTOR is particularly egregious in its model. My point was to the industry as a whole, and the general push towards such models. I do feel that SWTOR is comparatively pretty good about how they run their model, even if I don't like all of it, as I said originally. That's because BW is a business. No decision about SWTOR has ever been made just because it might be cool, nor any other game. Games are not free. No one makes them out of the goodness of their heart because they want to make people smile. I'm sure someone can quote a few random games that are actually free, but I'm talking about the gaming industry in general. It's a business. They are making a product and they want to make money from it. I'm sure the actual games developers will come up with an idea about something that might be cool, but it will be followed by a discussion about how much that would improve the game and whether it will be profitable. Will it keep subs, will it bring new subs, will it bring direct revenue? Of course BW will be having these conversations. Every company does and I'm not sure why it would be surprising, nor unethical. It's just capitalism and it may not be pretty, but it's the world we live in and communism has never worked well, so what is it you would like to see work differently? I'm not talking about whether or not it's implemented I'm talking about how it's designed and implemented. For example, in a subscription only game (i.e., no pay shop) adding a new armor would likely be through adding it to a vendor, as a reward for a new quest, as a drop from a boss, as a new random drop in the world, or even as a new crafting recipe. However with a pay shop, most armors will be released exclusively for money. Another example would be giving Treek a quest like HK, instead of simply being sold for cash. Other games (e.g., Candy Crush) have gameplay that is designed to become more and more frustrating to the user over time, at the same time offering, for money, a way to reduce that frustration. In other words, they introduce bad gameplay for the sole purpose of charging you to make the bad gameplay more enjoyable. So you pay $1 to get past a really annoying area, and you expect it to be fun again, but suddenly that frustrating encounter comes up again, encouraging you to pay again. And it will only increase in frequency making it more and more expensive for you to try to make it as enjoyable as it previously was, all the while playing on people's susceptibility to the sunk cost fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) . In this game some of those would come in the form of people who spend lots of money chasing the shiny from packs. As for personal responsibility I already said that it's their money and they can spend it how they wish. I'm not trying to tell you or anyone else how you should be spending it. But that doesn't mean that I have to agree with the tactics that these games are employing. As guy that spends alot of money on the CM I do agree in part with what you are saying, I too disagree with some of the tactics being used. I think the CM is in Over Use and we are not seeing much in the way of quest driven rewards. For example; HK had a quest but if i recall you have to also unlock him which is like I think 1 mill or CM. I am not 100% if that accurate because i did it a while ago but i do know alot of unlocks where you have the option to choose CM or insane credit amounts, of course we just choose the CM My number 1 pet peeve......paying additional Cartel Coins to unlock outfits I already bought with Cartel Coins...Grr.. The no credit option on the character customization is ridiculous. The part about people spending money, honestly its all relative. For me spending 100 bucks on cartel items is not a big deal. When I look where my money goes at the end of every month, its still one of the least expensive things I pay for.....heck my gas bill is like 300. My little girls and my old lady think I am freaking ATM TBH, so take that whole factor into consideration and CM items are cheap. So it all depends, I would much rather some money on a game I play....alot then spend the 150 i spent today to fix a window that my cat broke.....dont ask.... The point is, if you have the money, spend some of it on yourself and stuff you enjoy from time to time or the money you make is worthless. Edited February 7, 2014 by kirorx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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