Kaivers Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) I honestly don't think Bombers should have missiles. Never seemed right to me when I first heard it and it bothers me even more after some thought. My suggestion for the Bomber's Arsenal: Forward Cannons (Long Range)AI/Pilot Controlled Turrets (Short Range with Damage and Healing Upgrades)Edit: Choice of Stationary Mines (Damage) OR Support Drones (Buff/Debuff)Edit: Laser Guided Rockets (with AOE upgrades) Edited January 15, 2014 by Kaivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaivers Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 I honestly don't think Bombers should have missiles. Never seemed right to me when I first heard it and it bothers me even more after some thought. My suggestion for the Bomber's Arsenal: Forward Cannons (Long Range)AI/Pilot Controlled Turrets (Short Range with Damage and Healing Upgrades)Stationary and Laser Guided Mines (with AOE upgrades)Support Drones (Buff/Debuff) See http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=713204 for the laser guided mine concept. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegoUniverseBC Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I think they shouldn't have the proton missles. But even when we were testing them on the PTS as long as your behind the bomber they can't really do anything about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaivers Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 I think they shouldn't have the proton missles. But even when we were testing them on the PTS as long as your behind the bomber they can't really do anything about you. This where having a turret and laser guided mines would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 This where having a turret and laser guided mines would help. Because bombers don't already have the best weapons in-game..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThatOne Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Guys. The sky isn't falling. I've been on the PTS, and played against Bombers, with a copy of my Gunship from live, and as a Bomber. They're two shot kills with a gunship, have no way to break a missile lock after launch, and they are incredibly slow. Yeah, they hit like a truck. That's what bombers are supposed to do. They're worthless in a dogfight, unless you're chasing another bomber. Their power comes from the mines and drones. Which are basically stationary targets that can be taken out quickly. Only problems I've seen so far are minor bugs, like drones capping control points, and visual and targeting position not always matching up. In Short, Bomber's seem pretty well balanced with the current GSF craft. Hop over to PTS and see for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaivers Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 Because bombers don't already have the best weapons in-game..... Think you misunderstand. I believe they shouldn't have missiles or attack drones. They should literally be flying tanks. Long range forward cannons that are powerful but have a slow rate of fire and are extremely inaccurate. Short range turrets that are AI/Pilot controlled to make up for their lack of maneuverability in addition to Buff/Debuff drones and mines. To make up for their lack of any evasion capabilities they should have a "Missile Intercept" ability that requires pilot activation and is on CD. Laser guided mines or bombs would be their only real accurate long range weapon and would require the pilot having to first man a turret (which means losing flight control), then laze the target, and finally cycle back to the flight controls to ensure LOS and to fire the mine (bomb or whatever). The LOS requirement and sheer time it takes to obtain a firing solution would be the weakness of the laser guided weapons system. I don't know about you but I think that would be an extremely fun class to play and would be very appealing to those who are not into dogfighting or sniping. As they are now bombers sound a bit dull imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaivers Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Guys. The sky isn't falling. I've been on the PTS, and played against Bombers, with a copy of my Gunship from live, and as a Bomber. They're two shot kills with a gunship, have no way to break a missile lock after launch, and they are incredibly slow. Yeah, they hit like a truck. That's what bombers are supposed to do. They're worthless in a dogfight, unless you're chasing another bomber. Their power comes from the mines and drones. Which are basically stationary targets that can be taken out quickly. Only problems I've seen so far are minor bugs, like drones capping control points, and visual and targeting position not always matching up. In Short, Bomber's seem pretty well balanced with the current GSF craft. Hop over to PTS and see for yourself. I'm not overly concerned about them being OP, although I hope their not. I just think this toolkit for a bomber makes more sense and will appeal to more players. They will still be sitting ducks for fighters with medium and long range weapons, it will just require skill to know when, where and how to attack. Plus it will require more skill from the bomber pilots, it won't be all about flying around dropping mines and drones every so often, letting the AI do 90% of the work. Edited January 12, 2014 by Kaivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaivers Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) I'm not overly concerned about them being OP, although I hope their not. I just think this toolkit for a bomber makes more sense and will appeal to more players. They will still be sitting ducks for fighters with medium and long range weapons, it will just require skill to know when, where and how to attack. Plus it will require more skill from the bomber pilots, it won't be all about flying around dropping mines and drones every so often, letting the AI do 90% of the work. P.S. I used to play this fighter combat game on PSP called Air Conflicts and flying the Avro Lancaster bomber was just as fun as flying any of the dogfighters. All of the bombers turrets were AI controlled and the fun was flying to ensure they could hit their marks while also maintaining course, switching to the bombing reticule and dropping the bombs on the right targets at the right time. A lot of fun and required a lot of skill! Don't believe me check it out for yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yCefknDUIY. Do they even make PSPs anymore? Lol. Edited January 12, 2014 by Kaivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizersan Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Guys. The sky isn't falling. I've been on the PTS, and played against Bombers, with a copy of my Gunship from live, and as a Bomber. They're two shot kills with a gunship, have no way to break a missile lock after launch, and they are incredibly slow. Yeah, they hit like a truck. That's what bombers are supposed to do. They're worthless in a dogfight, unless you're chasing another bomber. Their power comes from the mines and drones. Which are basically stationary targets that can be taken out quickly. Only problems I've seen so far are minor bugs, like drones capping control points, and visual and targeting position not always matching up. In Short, Bomber's seem pretty well balanced with the current GSF craft. Hop over to PTS and see for yourself. Issue is your gunship is decked out and those bombers had no or very little in terms of upgrades compared to your gunship so I am sorry to say this but you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegoUniverseBC Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Issue is your gunship is decked out and those bombers had no or very little in terms of upgrades compared to your gunship so I am sorry to say this but you are wrong. Actually I don't think he is, I used my Flashfire from the PTS (stock everything) And I took out bombers pretty easily from behind. Sure when they are upgraded they will be different but my Flashfire wasn't upgraded either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThatOne Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Issue is your gunship is decked out and those bombers had no or very little in terms of upgrades compared to your gunship so I am sorry to say this but you are wrong. Decked out or not. I hit them with a full charge Ion blast, and a 3/4 charge Slug. The survivability upgrades which, in my opinion, are what make or break the gunship, like my feedback shield, evasion buff, and barrel roll upgrades, which are tuned to combat scouts and strike, never came into play. I simply acquired target, and blasted. A stock gunship is more than capable of laying out the damage I put on that Bomber. For the record, however, my gunship is fully mastered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizersan Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Actually I don't think he is, I used my Flashfire from the PTS (stock everything) And I took out bombers pretty easily from behind. Sure when they are upgraded they will be different but my Flashfire wasn't upgraded either. Then you were fighting people that don't know how to use it right I had 3 heal probes with 3 rail gun probes and just chilled there killing 2 on one fights against me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizersan Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Decked out or not. I hit them with a full charge Ion blast, and a 3/4 charge Slug. The survivability upgrades which, in my opinion, are what make or break the gunship, like my feedback shield, evasion buff, and barrel roll upgrades, which are tuned to combat scouts and strike, never came into play. I simply acquired target, and blasted. A stock gunship is more than capable of laying out the damage I put on that Bomber. For the record, however, my gunship is fully mastered. See you are only thinking of it in a one on one fight but you can't view it that way with a bomber due to a tactical factor called the jump beacon that allows the other team to jump to where they are to over power you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Think you misunderstand. I believe they shouldn't have missiles or attack drones. They should literally be flying tanks. Long range forward cannons that are powerful but have a slow rate of fire and are extremely inaccurate. Short range turrets that are AI/Pilot controlled to make up for their lack of maneuverability in addition to Buff/Debuff drones and mines. To make up for their lack of any evasion capabilities they should have a "Missile Intercept" ability that requires pilot activation and is on CD. You want a full redesign of the bombers to match something entirely different? That doesn't seem like a very solid suggestion. First, canons that "are powerful but have a slow rate of fire and are extremely inaccurate" sounds really bad for dealing with, well, anything. Turrets that shoot stuff for you COULD be balanced, but likely would be too weak or too strong, and in any event you'll be waddling around while being unable to site a scout or gunship, taking your skill contribution away from the game. When a gunship snipes you or a scout burst laser kills you, he at least had to keep you in his sites to manage that. Laser guided mines or bombs would be their only real accurate long range weapon and would require the pilot having to first man a turret (which means losing flight control), then laze the target, and finally cycle back to the flight controls to ensure LOS and to fire the mine (bomb or whatever). I would not like this at all. The "laze a target" thing sound silly- we already have systems that presumably DO that on the other ships (protorps, concussions, clearly work on some kind of telemetry system, as they can't acquire a target post launch like real world missiles). The LOS requirement and sheer time it takes to obtain a firing solution would be the weakness of the laser guided weapons system. I don't like any of these ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaivers Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) You want a full redesign of the bombers to match something entirely different? That doesn't seem like a very solid suggestion. First, canons that "are powerful but have a slow rate of fire and are extremely inaccurate" sounds really bad for dealing with, well, anything. Turrets that shoot stuff for you COULD be balanced, but likely would be too weak or too strong, and in any event you'll be waddling around while being unable to site a scout or gunship, taking your skill contribution away from the game. When a gunship snipes you or a scout burst laser kills you, he at least had to keep you in his sites to manage that. I would not like this at all. The "laze a target" thing sound silly- we already have systems that presumably DO that on the other ships (protorps, concussions, clearly work on some kind of telemetry system, as they can't acquire a target post launch like real world missiles). I don't like any of these ideas. How is laser targeting, which is a real life weapons system, any sillier than instant railgun hits in the vacuum of space? You are saying that there have never been weapons, cannons to be precise, that have a slow rate of fire and are very inaccurate yet can devastate any enemy if a hit is landed? The extreme power of the suggested cannons would have to be balanced by something, they can't just be some super weapon like a railgun! LOL! I am not a game developer or graphics designer but even with my "limited" knowledge I don't believe these things would be difficult to incorporate and balance. If the PSP can do it successfully why not the greatest MMO on the planet? Not sure if it would mean delaying release of bombers but it would definitely make them a sure success (fun to play). Check out the Lancaster and B-17 Bombers in another game that gives both AI and Player control over the turrets: Either way I welcome your opinion. Let's just agree to disagree. Edited January 13, 2014 by Kaivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaivers Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) How is laser targeting, which is a real life weapons system, any sillier than instant railgun hits in the vacuum of space? You are saying that there have never been weapons, cannons to be precise, that have a slow rate of fire and are very inaccurate yet can devastate any enemy if a hit is landed? The extreme power of the suggested cannons would have to be balanced by something, they can't just be some super weapon like a railgun! LOL! I am not a game developer or graphics designer but even with my "limited" knowledge I don't believe these things would be difficult to incorporate and balance. If the PSP can do it successfully why not the greatest MMO on the planet? Not sure if it would mean delaying release of bombers but it would definitely make them a sure success (fun to play). Check out the Lancaster and B-17 Bombers in another game that gives both AI and Player control over the turrets: Either way I welcome your opinion. Let's just agree to disagree. P.S. Instead of a Railgun Drone bombers should have a Forward Cannon with 10k Range. It should have the lowest rate of fire, greatest power draw, least accuracy but be the most powerful laser cannon. Its firing arc should also be the smallest. This type of weapon would require the use of skill to be effective. Imagine a Bomber using these cannons to scare off an enemy fighter from a teammate's tail, then the pilot pulls bomber up to the fighter uses shield extender, switches to turret view and uses repair beam/resupply module on the ship. Just like aerial refueling maneuvers irl. Edited January 13, 2014 by Kaivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaivers Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well now everyone can judge bomber "action" for themselves. Fans of aerial combat who enjoy playing bombers will not take to this imo. Next months release should try to bring in AND keep as many new GSF players as possible. There is really no need to reinvent the wheel for bomber combat guys. Anyway, keeping my fingers crossed for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 P.S. Instead of a Railgun Drone bombers should have a Forward Cannon with 10k Range. . we call those gunships Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Well now everyone can judge bomber "action" for themselves. That guy never even used his power conversions and just dropped his drones at random. Hardly a example of great play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaivers Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) we call those gunships Gunships have a 10k range laser cannon? I don't play a gunship but I was under the impression that Railguns require manual charging? Edited January 14, 2014 by Kaivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaivers Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 That guy never even used his power conversions and just dropped his drones at random. Hardly a example of great play. Power conversions or not it looks like bomber action primarily involves dropping drones and protecting them. If thats what they are going for and think will attract fans of fighter combat games to GSF its all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyet Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) He also didn't understand how the Scout was sitting still. ... ... What? Too painful to watch, poor guy. F1-F4 are your friend, 'x' to stop, set your secondary weapons to mines instead of ptorps of you wanna lay mines... Edited January 14, 2014 by Lyet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaivers Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Gunships have a 10k range laser cannon? I don't play a gunship but I was under the impression that Railguns require manual charging? Never received an answer to this. Anyway, Light Turbo Laser Cannons are part of SW lore and used on ships of various sizes. The Heavy Turbo Laser variant is supposed to be on Cap ships and has a 20-25km range . Therefore Light Turbo Laser Cannons could easily serve as the GSF's Bomber's 10k forward cannons, adding yet again more distinction to the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Never received an answer to this. Anyway, Light Turbo Laser Cannons are part of SW lore and used on ships of various sizes. The Heavy Turbo Laser variant is supposed to be on Cap ships and has a 20-25km range . Therefore Light Turbo Laser Cannons could easily serve as the GSF's Bomber's 10k forward cannons, adding yet again more distinction to the class. Gunships have a railgun which is a long range forward firing weapon that hits really hard. The "forward cannon" that you described as forward facing long range weapon that hits hard. They are effectively the same thing except the gunship has 5k more range. Your suggestion would be turning bombers into basically a gunship variant with insane hull and shields with mines and drones to defend itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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