2.6 PTS Commando changes

[LeHovah]

Pushback is not the problem!. Really problem are interrupt, lov survival and lov heal.

The changes are bad - only cosmetics.

Trauma probe should be stack like scoundrels "upper hand" and mando now can use bacta infussion without cooldown 18 sec! Full auto, mortal voley and advanced medical probe can't be interrupt.

Advanced medical probe colldown 5 max 7 sec. + healing 1500 hp for 3 sec.

Kolto bomb healing like sage 8 targets.

Commando need more armor and more protection for stuns, roots.

 

This is about med spec. I play mando 2 years as heallers - wz are terrable - 80% time stunned, rooted, every time interrupted and death, first target - no one attack scoundrels and sages becouse they fast run.

Commando is to heavy to quick run. He should be heavy, heavy healer, but he need more and more survival and more effective skils.

 

Calm down, take a deep breath.

 

Survival-wise, mandos are fine. What we do need, however, are something against interrupts and possibly better mobility.

Edited January 14, 2014 by LeHovah

[oaceen]

pushback is good and all for PVE, but the main skill that needed it was full auto, so....

the difference between 25 and 30% is actually a really huge difference when one results in 2 ticks and the other still results in 3 (in fact, pushback with 75% reduction is actually preferred, since it cuts out the 'dead time' of the channel but anyways)

and curtain of fire should give full auto interrupt immunity. i don't see why this would be so broken, especially since classes have plenty of mobility options to circumvent the snare, and there's already a precedence of many classes getting channel interrupt immunity on procs. ours also requires a proc off of a cast ability.

 

i still think the bubble should give interrupt immunity baseline for commandos and honestly don't see why that would be so broken either. it's on such a massive cooldown. if not that, then put it lower than 3rd tier combat medic so gunnery/assault specialist can get it without giving up their top tier ability.

 

 

yay commando healing though. infinite trauma probe is the real deal. 9 charges, goes off every 2s, and only heals on inc damage, so it is quite possibly the most effective heal in the game, and now we can share the love with everyone.

also, good that frontline medic was detached as a requirement for probe medic, even though it has small amount of usefulness now that we can probe ourselves (giggity) along with everyone else at the same time

[SpaniardInfinity]

The 'one per target' text already exists on Trauma Probe, and currently your Commando can only have one active. It's there so that you know you can't put a fresh Trauma Probe on someone and still keep whatever charges you have from the first cast. Two different Commandos can currently put their Trauma Probes on the same target, despite that 'one per target' text on the skill. Unless that functionality is changing with 2.6 two Commandos won't be fighting for anything. .

 

That functionality is changing in 2.6. From what I've seen on the PTS, you can only have one Trauma Probe per target. If a second Combat Medic attempts to put a Trauma Probe on a target that already has it, it either refreshes or replaces the stack (couldn't tell which). If it refreshes the stacks it would promote teamwork, while if it replaces it you may see some pointless competition.

 

If it's the latter, it will only be a problem in 8v8 warzones when two or more Combat Medics are more preoccupied with padding their numbers than cooperating and doing their job. It may also happen in a pug operation, but that's something both healers need to coordinate (if one is just trolling, boot 'em and find someone else). In any other situation (arenas, flashpoints, operations) there should be enough organization and awareness to prevent any such competition.

 

EDIT: I'd prefer two stacks of Trauma Probe to a debuff limit, however.

 

You are just gonna end up fighting for trauma probe a lot. It's gonna be pretty bad either one of the healers will call it quits or they will both die/run out of ammo..

 

If two Commandos die/run out of ammo because they spent all of their time trying to put Trauma Probe on the same target, they are both bad and should feel bad. Just putting that out there.

Edited January 14, 2014 by SpaniardInfinity

[BobaFaceroll]

That functionality is changing in 2.6. From what I've seen on the PTS, you can only have one Trauma Probe per target. If a second Combat Medic attempts to put a Trauma Probe on a target that already has it, it either refreshes or replaces the stack (couldn't tell which). If it refreshes the stacks it would promote teamwork, while if it replaces it you may see some pointless competition.

 

If it's the latter, it will only be a problem in 8v8 warzones when two or more Combat Medics are more preoccupied with padding their numbers than cooperating and doing their job. It may also happen in a pug operation, but that's something both healers need to coordinate (if one is just trolling, boot 'em and find someone else). In any other situation (arenas, flashpoints, operations) there should be enough organization and awareness to prevent any such competition.

 

Well that's unfortunate. I was hoping that would not change as I currently enjoy stacking two Probes on our main tank in our all Trooper raid night. It makes healing the main tank a breeze...I'll miss that. Spreading probes around the whole raid is good, but it's going to be a nerf to how easy it is to keep up the main tank. Less effort to heal everyone else though, so it's probably a net gain. We shall see soon enough.

 

I have to wonder though if that's an unintended effect. Should two Commandos still be able to stack their own Probes as they do on live and this behavior is a bug, or is this the actual intent? We will never know of course as I expect we will never see a yellow Dev response one way or the other.

 

Anyway, thanks for the post. I've been wondering how it would work.

[windogie]

The 'one per target' text already exists on Trauma Probe, and currently your Commando can only have one active. It's there so that you know you can't put a fresh Trauma Probe on someone and still keep whatever charges you have from the first cast. Two different Commandos can currently put their Trauma Probes on the same target, despite that 'one per target' text on the skill. Unless that functionality is changing with 2.6 two Commandos won't be fighting for anything.

 

I really don't want a lockout. I want to be able to reapply it when it suits me, not when (and only when) all charges are depleted.

 

I dont really like it but bioware thinks we will be OP or something.

Edited January 14, 2014 by windogie

[windogie]

 

 

If two Commandos die/run out of ammo because they spent all of their time trying to put Trauma Probe on the same target, they are both bad and should feel bad. Just putting that out there.

You would think they would be smart enough to not fight over it and just heal but I've seen some people who would and lots of people get competitive which doesnt help. Still think it needs to be like Operative hots and stack with other trauma probes that change is kinda dumb.

[cashogy_reborn]

You would think they would be smart enough to not fight over it and just heal but I've seen some people who would and lots of people get competitive which doesnt help. Still think it needs to be like Operative hots and stack with other trauma probes that change is kinda dumb.

 

And those people are bad and should feel bad. And you should feel bad for even suggesting that something so absurd should have an impact on balance changes.....

[windogie]

And those people are bad and should feel bad. And you should feel bad for even suggesting that something so absurd should have an impact on balance changes.....

 

So when those bads own the trauma probes on your entire team including you, you wont have any trouble with that?

[cashogy_reborn]

So when those bads own the trauma probes on your entire team including you, you wont have any trouble with that?

 

Nope. Ill be busy actually healing my teammates, and not mindlessly spamming probes on people.

[windogie]

Nope. Ill be busy actually healing my teammates, and not mindlessly spamming probes on people.

 

Now answer me this, if the bads and you both had the ability to use trauma probes on the same targets and you only had to refresh every once in awhile, you would not do that?

That is all I think needs to be done since there are already abilities in game that work that way, I really dont think the nerf/buff system is the way to go for commando healing at this time.

[CommanderKeeva]

Honestly, of all the changes what makes me the happiest is that we no longer have to take the crap Frontline Medic talent, freeing up skill points to put in something more useful. And the ability to use Hammer Shot on ourselves.

 

I could be wrong, of course, but I believe not much has been done to address the shoestring nature of Commando resource management, an area where Combat Medics are unjustifiably hard hit. The fact that we can use more Trauma Probes on multiple people is counterbalanced by the fact that Commando healers already have one of the worst resource management system in the game and trying to add in and maintain multiple Trauma Probes could push resource management firmly over the edge. I don't see it as an effective raid-wide healing source (like Slow Release Medpack for Scoundrels) because of prohibitive Ammo costs. They should now operate on roughly the same principles, however, Scoundrels have an infinitely easier energy management system and much better tools to recover resources quickly.

 

I think Ammo management is the underlying, core problem of the Commando advanced class in PvE. (Whereas vulnerability to interrupts and poor self-defense and mobility plague the class in PvP.) They should focus on these fundamental problems first, otherwise any patch will only bring half measures.

[Lalainnia]

trauma probe isn't going to be as great as people think for pve, It's going to increase the already tight ammo/heat management while being a super crappy version of scoundrels slow release medpac. Unlike slow release tramua probe only ticks after taking damage while medpac ticks constantly every 3 secs for 18 secs so its kinda pointless if the ops group takes 1 big amount of slash damage. The self hammershot heal is nothing really to be excited about seeing as we honestly should have had that forever I just put that in the group with us being the only range without a interrupt and battle rez for like 7 months or longer. The tree being reorganized is just stupid to even consider a buff I wouldn't even call it a Qol change b/c the tree was just set up wrong period. If anything the trauma probe change is going give a few crappy options for aoe healing in pvp. I could QQ about a bunch of other stuff but who cares right not like they even check stuff on the forums anyway.

 

 

Also unerf our crit talents and alacrity talents the entire medic/bodyguard spec is built around casting yet they nerfed all our alacrity and crit chance talents in 2.0

Edited January 16, 2014 by Lalainnia

[cs_zoltan]

Honestly, of all the changes what makes me the happiest is that we no longer have to take the crap Frontline Medic talent, freeing up skill points to put in something more useful. And the ability to use Hammer Shot on ourselves.

 

I could be wrong, of course, but I believe not much has been done to address the shoestring nature of Commando resource management, an area where Combat Medics are unjustifiably hard hit. The fact that we can use more Trauma Probes on multiple people is counterbalanced by the fact that Commando healers already have one of the worst resource management system in the game and trying to add in and maintain multiple Trauma Probes could push resource management firmly over the edge. I don't see it as an effective raid-wide healing source (like Slow Release Medpack for Scoundrels) because of prohibitive Ammo costs. They should now operate on roughly the same principles, however, Scoundrels have an infinitely easier energy management system and much better tools to recover resources quickly.

 

I think Ammo management is the underlying, core problem of the Commando advanced class in PvE. (Whereas vulnerability to interrupts and poor self-defense and mobility plague the class in PvP.) They should focus on these fundamental problems first, otherwise any patch will only bring half measures.

trauma probe isn't going to be as great as people think for pve, It's going to increase the already tight ammo/heat management while being a super crappy version of scoundrels slow release medpac. Unlike slow release tramua probe only ticks after taking damage while medpac ticks constantly every 3 secs for 18 secs so its kinda pointless if the ops group takes 1 big amount of slash damage. The self hammershot heal is nothing really to be excited about seeing as we honestly should have had that forever I just put that in the group with us being the only range without a interrupt and battle rez for like 7 months or longer. The tree being reorganized is just stupid to even consider a buff I wouldn't even call it a Qol change b/c the tree was just set up wrong period. If anything the trauma probe change is going give a few crappy options for aoe healing in pvp. I could QQ about a bunch of other stuff but who cares right not like they even check stuff on the forums anyway.

 

 

Also unerf our crit talents and alacrity talents the entire medic/bodyguard spec is built around casting yet they nerfed all our alacrity and crit chance talents in 2.0

 

Are you guys real? I can't belive what I've just read. Finally someone understands!!!!!

Edited January 16, 2014 by cs_zoltan

[akabane_k]

the advantage of trauma probe is the duration. You can do it during downtime, or before the pull, on dps and it will still be effective a couple minutes later. You cant ignore the tank for 5-10 secs to hot up the dps during raidwide damage, which is the downfall of aoe hotting, it takes too many gcds when you cannot spare them. And they are reducing the cost to 10, which is close to ammo neutral.

[CommanderKeeva]

the advantage of trauma probe is the duration. You can do it during downtime, or before the pull, on dps and it will still be effective a couple minutes later. You cant ignore the tank for 5-10 secs to hot up the dps during raidwide damage, which is the downfall of aoe hotting, it takes too many gcds when you cannot spare them. And they are reducing the cost to 10, which is close to ammo neutral.

 

I think the same thing that makes Trauma Probe a very efficient tank healing tool (only healing after damage) makes it a very poor DPS and Healer healing tool (at least in PvE). Tanks take steady, large amounts of damage, so reactive healing is good because it makes sure that no heal effect is wasted. However, the same rarely happens in Ops, most of the time they take one or two hits from a mechanic and then nothing for a long while. If they take a hit again, Trauma Probe will trigger once and heal for a miniscule amount...whereas Slow Release Medpack keeps healing regardless whether or not the target is taking damage. That's why I say that its main use will still be on the tanks, it won't be a fire-and-forget HoT on anyone but Tanks, unless the target is a taking a long stream of continuous damage.

 

The only other application I can see is to counter uncleansable DoTs (like on Tyrans and Raptus) because a DoT effect will trigger the HoT effect of Trauma Probe. However, on cleansable DoTs, Field Aid is still a better approach. That is not to say, of course, Slow Release Medpack won't have the same effect on uncleansable DoTs. Hence I'm saying that Trauma Probe is essentially a weaker version of Slow Release Medpack, just as many Commando healer tools are weaker versions Scoundrel tools.

Edited January 16, 2014 by CommanderKeeva

[cashogy_reborn]

I dont PvE so I could be wrong, but you will have to choose who to keep Probes on, because as already pointed out if you only get 2 or 3 heals out of it, that is a wasted probe.

 

You could start a phase with the whole group having Probes, but you should not be refreshing them across the entire group; only people taking regular damage and actual using the charges up.

[stockwizzle]

i would say you only have to do it when you have time i mean it lasts 3 minutes

[banehammer]

Hammer shot to your own FACE will be good as well.

 

.

 

I cant wait to see the merc and mando animations they make for that ;P

 

My guess is similar to applying a stim. Ie syringe to the thigh. I hope its something new though.

[cs_zoltan]

I cant wait to see the merc and mando animations they make for that ;P

 

My guess is similar to applying a stim. Ie syringe to the thigh. I hope its something new though.

 

Both have the Merc healing scan animation. Or at least they did last weekend (or whenever 2.6 got on PTS)

[straseed]

I cant wait to see the merc and mando animations they make for that ;P

 

My guess is similar to applying a stim. Ie syringe to the thigh. I hope its something new though.

hell naw, love laser straight to my own face or I reroll

[venomlash]

Fights like Titan 6 will benefit greatly from the change to Trauma Probe. It's alternating phases of heavy raid damage (over many hits) and hide-behind-a-rock-and-wait, during which healers can top people off and refresh the probes.

[SWEtree]

Lower all cost by 50% and ammo issue = solved

[CommanderKeeva]

Looking at what they did to Zen Strike for Vigilance Guardians, I think that the Curtain of Fire proc could be solved in the same way. Add in a new talent:

 

Gravity Charge: Each Grav Round has a cumulative 33% chance of triggering Full Auto. This effect lasts for 6 seconds can happen no sooner than 6 seconds after a Curtain of Fire effect has been triggered.

 

This way our main and most used ability, Grav Round, would essentially build charges for Curtain of Fire. Each use of Grav Round would increase the chance of Curtain of Fire by 33%, meaning that the third Grav Round would inevitably trigger the effect. (No more 5-6-7 Grav Rounds without an effect.) Three Grav Rounds would also coincide with the number of Charged Barrel procs we need for High Impact Bolt, streamlining the rotation considerably. But because we also use Demolition Round, High Impact Bolt, Electro Net, Plasma Grenade etc, enough time would pass between Curtain of Fire procs for this to work.

 

Then two more changes to make Ammo management a bit easier:

 

1. Change Cell Charger to how it works for Vanguards. Instead of regenerating 8 cells every six seconds (which can happen when the Commando is at max energy, essentially wasting the effect), make it regen 2 cells every 1,5 seconds.

2. Make Full Auto during Curtain of Fire free. Or give us back the free High Impact Bolt.

[LordKantner]

Any1 else happy they can finally shoot themselves?

[ArchangelLBC]

Looking at what they did to Zen Strike for Vigilance Guardians, I think that the Curtain of Fire proc could be solved in the same way. Add in a new talent:

 

Gravity Charge: Each Grav Round has a cumulative 33% chance of triggering Full Auto. This effect lasts for 6 seconds can happen no sooner than 6 seconds after a Curtain of Fire effect has been triggered.

 

This way our main and most used ability, Grav Round, would essentially build charges for Curtain of Fire. Each use of Grav Round would increase the chance of Curtain of Fire by 33%, meaning that the third Grav Round would inevitably trigger the effect. (No more 5-6-7 Grav Rounds without an effect.) Three Grav Rounds would also coincide with the number of Charged Barrel procs we need for High Impact Bolt, streamlining the rotation considerably. But because we also use Demolition Round, High Impact Bolt, Electro Net, Plasma Grenade etc, enough time would pass between Curtain of Fire procs for this to work.

 

Then two more changes to make Ammo management a bit easier:

 

1. Change Cell Charger to how it works for Vanguards. Instead of regenerating 8 cells every six seconds (which can happen when the Commando is at max energy, essentially wasting the effect), make it regen 2 cells every 1,5 seconds.

2. Make Full Auto during Curtain of Fire free. Or give us back the free High Impact Bolt.

 

I like that a lot. Just have grav rounds grant a stacking buff and at 3 stacks it procs CoF, exactly how Vig is gonna work. Even better: With a 3 second channel, and three grav rounds needed to reset it, the rate limit is automatically set at 7.5 seconds (since full auto takes 3 seconds to channel anyway).

 

I do wonder what that would do to our rotations. I'd be somewhat afraid we wouldn't see DR or HiB used at all, unless they're going to add stacks as well.