Looks like hybrid builds are getting killed

[Mastershroom]

I'm pretty much copy+pasting this from my post in the Vanguard subforum. Long story short, a guy on Reddit who likes to data-mine SWTOR patches took apart the most recent Public Test Server patch. In addition to the announced stuff like Bombers being added to GSF, the data has a few other changes that have not yet been announced. Most relevant to us is the following:

 

Troopers/Bounty Hunters:

• Pulse Generator/Prototype Flame Thrower talent now requires High Energy Cell/High Energy Gas Cylinder

 

So, that pretty much kills the 2/22/22 and 8/22/16 hybrid DPS builds, as Prototype Flamethrower with Combustible Gas Cylinder was a huge part of it. From what I hear, it also kills the AP hybrid tank build, though I'm not familiar with that build. But if it involved Prototype Flamethrower and Ion Gas Cylinder, it seems to be toast.

 

I'm not too happy about it, as the hybrid DPS builds were perfectly viable without being overpowered, and even had a decent rotation. I just hate having fewer options.

 

Obviously this is the PTS, and everything there is subject to change before being released to live servers, but my gut tells me it's going to happen.

 

Source thread:

Edited January 10, 2014 by Mastershroom

[akabane_k]

blame the pvp hybrid tanks, they are the imba ones.

[Fallerup]

like I said on the sniper forum about the 62.5% nerf on Orbital strike damage: I'm so glad II unsubed this month. the hybrid spec was the best dps spec there was and now they killed it.

 

If they dont want hybrid spec. why don't they do like wow did and force you to pick a tree at level 10 and then you needed a full 41 points into that tree before you could move on (in this case 36). That would kill hybrids too without nerfing any sort of damage. I'm thinking about the Orbital strike nerf here.

[Ottoattack]

This will be the last nail in the coffin of PT PvE dps. Edited January 10, 2014 by Ottoattack

[windogie]

like I said on the sniper forum about the 62.5% nerf on Orbital strike damage: I'm so glad II unsubed this month. the hybrid spec was the best dps spec there was and now they killed it.

 

If they dont want hybrid spec. why don't they do like wow did and force you to pick a tree at level 10 and then you needed a full 41 points into that tree before you could move on (in this case 36). That would kill hybrids too without nerfing any sort of damage. I'm thinking about the Orbital strike nerf here.

 

What got me is how they killed that hybrid they decided to take a giant hammer and smash eng on the head with it and let the deformed hybrid run away back to lethality.

Edited January 10, 2014 by windogie

[TACeMossie]

like I said on the sniper forum about the 62.5% nerf on Orbital strike damage: I'm so glad II unsubed this month. the hybrid spec was the best dps spec there was and now they killed it.

 

If they dont want hybrid spec. why don't they do like wow did and force you to pick a tree at level 10 and then you needed a full 41 points into that tree before you could move on (in this case 36). That would kill hybrids too without nerfing any sort of damage. I'm thinking about the Orbital strike nerf here.

 

You know you still get at least 1 month with the hybrid b4 it dissapears right?

[Sotty]

This will be the last nail in the coffin of PT PvE dps.

 

Are you always this overly dramatic? Full-AP is still more than capable to do any PVE/PVP content. Yeah, you might not hit such high numbers as snipers or marauders, but I don't care. If I can do my part to kill the boss I don't care how much more damage other classes might do. I tried both hybrids(2/22/22 and 8/22/16) in operations, but I never felt that full AP was any worse. I actually have a hard time to play without the increased movementspeed, longer hydraulic overrides and the other benefits, which come with full ap.

 

I'm glad BW did something about the tank hybrids. It was getting ridiculous how many bad PTs were running around with the tank cylinder, because they read about it beeing FOTM, but had no clue how to play the PT in general. All PT trees are pretty balanced for PVP if they use the designated cylinder.

 

A buff for Pyro in PVE is the only thing missing and the PT will be more than viable for any content, regardless of the tree.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Sotty

[TACeMossie]

Are you always this overly dramatic? Full-AP is still more than capable to do any PVE/PVP content. Yeah, you might not hit such high numbers as snipers or marauders, but I don't care. If I can do my part to kill the boss I don't care how much more damage other classes might do. I tried both hybrids(2/22/22 and 8/22/16) in operations, but I never felt that full AP was any worse. I actually have a hard time to play without the increased movementspeed, longer hydraulic overrides and the other benefits, which come with full ap.

 

I'm glad BW did something about the tank hybrids. It was getting ridiculous how many bad PTs were running around with the tank cylinder, because they read about it beeing FOTM, but had no clue how to play the PT in general. All PT trees are pretty balanced for PVP if they use the designated cylinder.

 

A buff for Pyro in PVE is the only thing missing and the PT will be more than viable for any content, regardless of the tree.

 

This... Well sort of. I made this post over in the vanguard version of this thread:

 

POST 1

 

Well almost... Ctor does use Assault against the council...

 

But yeah, with this nerf Vanguards might finally get the buffs to the other full trees they need to be not laughed at. Like maybe a Pulse Generator buff for tactics (33/67/100% from 20/40/60%, so its as good as singularities with smash), and a proc buff for Ionic Accelerator (60/100% instead of 45/75%).

 

/crosses fingers

 

(there was a rant about attempting another hybrid that came to the conculsion it would suck here)

 

I would like to say I am a firm believer in Assault though, and have been trying to get it to work. Buffs plz

 

POST 2

 

As much as this has a chance of being true, you have to remember the first kill in NiM Dread Guard had a DPS Guardian - the worst dps class of all of them (its beaten by both vanguard DPS trees).

 

I will say however that I doubt this is gonna wipe C-tor off the DPS charts - he still does pretty damn insane as Assault (look at him in Tyrans or the council) and the skills from the hybrid would go pretty well when put into Tactics (granted he has half as many HiB's and has to spam hammer shots more often... but hey, it still gets the obscenely powerful pulse cannon)

 

The fact is that since everyone ran around learning the hybrid, they have the skills for BOTH the dps specs (Pyro + AP). They learned the tricks for building up the PFT stacks, throwing out Rail Shots after Shoruken-ing, and keeping up the DoT. They learned to keep Rail Shot on a 6 second cooldown by throwing Flame Burst or Rocket Punch out every 6 seconds, while keeping up Incendiary Missile. The only thing that people might need to get used to is using Immolate instead of the second rail shot or Thermal Detonator instead of Flamethrower, but a simple keybind change could easily do that.

 

And if the hybrid finally goes, as said above, we can finally see the buffs to the other trees. Not to say they can't pull it off though (Note my comment about the Guardian being in the first NiM Dread Guard kill)

Edited January 10, 2014 by TACeMossie

[TooGreat]

People just QQ way too much.

 

I actually run right tree on my Vanguard and PT when I dps and the bottom line is that there should have never been the ability to run the middle tree spec in a different cylinder. It really takes away from the reason that that ability was put in there.

 

PVP is where the problem lies as like other posters said you have dps PT/Vans running around getting close to top dmg and putting up like 200k prot. That is broken and it needed to be fixed. Nothing was nerfed just a "oops that isnt what we intended".

 

Pyro is still a great spec for pvp and has some incredible burst. A good PT/Van in any three specs is a tough SoB.

[Skrigg]

Where does this put PT/VG in the tank hierarchy for arenas? Id like to play mainly a tank role, will being full shield be viable for arenas?

[DAMossimo]

I think it's funny ; I shelved my PT months ago so go ahead and continue to nerf away at them!

 

nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf

 

I couldn't care less. So many better AC's to play.

[SajPl]

blame the pvp hybrid tanks, they are the imba ones.

 

Actually they were not but bad's can't figure out how to kill a tank in dps gear .

[Odyseus]

The AP tank spec is stupid and it deserves to be nerfed. There's no way as I tank I should be doing the most damage in a warzone, with a 20% shield chance, 50% damage mitigation, and a Flame Thrower that hits for 4500 a tick AOE damage. Tanks should be doing the least amount of damage in exchange for their immense damage mitigation. I admit, the spec is fun, but to game breaking when in the hands of skilled players.

[Herbzta]

datamined the patch?

 

he could have saved time if he just read the patchnotes here(posted on the same day as he posted on reddit) :

http://www.swtor.com/test-center/patchnotes

[SpoonyJank]

The AP tank spec is stupid and it deserves to be nerfed. There's no way as I tank I should be doing the most damage in a warzone, with a 20% shield chance, 50% damage mitigation, and a Flame Thrower that hits for 4500 a tick AOE damage. Tanks should be doing the least amount of damage in exchange for their immense damage mitigation. I admit, the spec is fun, but to game breaking when in the hands of skilled players.

 

Most of those game breakers come from just wearing a shield. I can't say I did very well with the spec. The heat management is terrible. I suggest people try it before saying it is broken. I think you just have to be really skilled for it to work and frankly I'm terrible.

[Ryuku-sama]

Just to put my 2 cent here.

 

Here is two Shield/AP Hybrid build I find particulary good since you gain Flame Engine which is as good as PFT since you channel FT twice as fast, thus doing the same DPS. It's just more RNG dependant.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/powertech#20021022102122321230-12001002221322-0

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/powertech#20021021022102122321232-1002021322-0

(The two points in Combust can go in Jet Speed)

[SpoonyJank]

Just to put my 2 cent here.

 

Here is two Shield/AP Hybrid build I find particulary good since you gain Flame Engine which is as good as PFT since you channel FT twice as fast, thus doing the same DPS. It's just more RNG dependant.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/powertech#20021022102122321230-12001002221322-0

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/powertech#20021021022102122321232-1002021322-0

(The two points in Combust can go in Jet Speed)

 

Those would be perfect builds for huttball, but in a sustained arena fight or something like that you are going to have heat over 40% as soon as you use a flame burst and it goes downhill from there. A lot of the stuff in ion stance is RNG dependant, even the heat management, which, with perfect luck equals what HEGC normally does. And not just that, it depends on being attacked... and that's not all, it has to be a certain type of damage. You basically need heatblast if you don't want to use rapid shots or if you want to use flame burst or flame sweep, which is how you build stacks for PFT.

 

Aside from heat you have -10% damage compared to HEGC while not guarding, -5% while you are. Which would be a fair trade for the 5% DR if guarding in DPS gear was a good idea. It can be sometimes, but you pretty much get focused in ranked arenas when you do that.

 

I'm not really trying to slam those builds in particular. They are probably the most fun IMO. Everyone loves jet charge. PFT is (was) ridiculous when it lands on 3+ people. Just most of the ion hybrids aren't as brokenly good as people say when your heat goes out of control after 30-60 seconds.

 

II ran an ion hybrid that went up to the +30% surge thing in the AP tree and had rocket punches that procced on shielding with +23% crit from skills and set bonus. It ended up being the most damaging hybrid build I ran and didn't totally rely on PFT. The PFT skill is hard to avoid though. There is only one more point in the quell skill before you only have HEGC exclusive choices left. I would guess people would just switch stances even without getting many HEGC skills if PFT were that broken.

 

The only thing that would make it totally broken is if there were 5 more levels from an expansion or something. That would definitely be broken even with the horrible heat management.

 

edit: fixed link and horrible mobile typoes.

Edited February 3, 2014 by SpoonyJank

[Ryuku-sama]

How is it different from the standard Shield/AP hybrid.... they get the same heat management problem. Everything cost too much and our passives heat regen skills are too much RNG dependant to be fully effective. Heat Blast which is still heavily RNG dependant stabilize this while diminishing our overall DPS (Rail Shot proccing only after Rocket Punch which force us to retard Rocket Punch for 6 sec). Sure for DPS running HEGC is better than running Ion Gas Cylinder. But this build was meant to maximize DPS in the same PFT was doing, just far more RNG dependant. The build with Coolant even gain better survivability than the original Shield/AP hybrid. This is an alternative tank build, not a DPS build. Edited February 5, 2014 by Ryuku-sama