Mastershroom Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) So, a guy on Reddit who likes to data-mine SWTOR patches took apart the most recent Public Test Server patch. In addition to the announced stuff like Bombers being added to GSF, the data has a few other changes that have not yet been announced. Most relevant to us is the following: Troopers/Bounty Hunters: Pulse Generator/Prototype Flame Thrower talent now requires High Energy Cell/High Energy Gas Cylinder So, that pretty much kills the 2/22/22 and 8/22/16 hybrid DPS builds, as Pulse Generator with Plasma Cell was a huge part of it. From what I hear, it also kills the Tactics hybrid tank build, though I'm not familiar with that build. But if it involved Pulse Generator and Ion Cell, it seems to be toast. I'm not too happy about it, as the hybrid DPS builds were perfectly viable without being overpowered, and even had a decent rotation. I just hate having fewer options. Obviously this is the PTS, and everything there is subject to change before being released to live servers, but my gut tells me it's going to happen. Source: Edited January 10, 2014 by Mastershroom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckeyduckey Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Finally. So broken (PvP at least) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liradarc Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The ion cell, tactics tree vanguard was too strong in PvP, especially in arenas. It's good that it's gone. (This from someone who has played one.) Don't know enough about the hybrid DPS vanguards in PvE to comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 So in general, I'm happy about this change. Not only because it eliminates the Tactics tank build, which was awful, but also the elimination of the Assault/Tactics hybrid. Specifically, I'm happy about this removal because of what the hybrid encouraged in terms of class usage and how people judged Vanguard DPS. Here's the problem: the hybrid is really, really good. Not really over powered, but really really good. However, it is only that good when the stars line up on procs. Fail to get a HiB proc? Say hello to Hammer Shot. Fail to get a Stockstrike proc? Even more Hanmer Shot, a delayed HiB proc (and thus even more Hammer Shot). The DPS variation in the spec is insane, because the difference between a good parse on procs and a bad parse on procs rivals the difference for even Vig Guardians. The spec sets an expectation of getting insanely good numbers with easy-mode ammo management that simply doesn't exist, at least not reliably. It's certainly not a spec I would count on in a progression setting. Now, there are people who make it work. Ctor is an excellent example. But even reading his parses shows the massive variation the spec suffers under. I would rather it not be the "de facto" vanguard DPS spec as it is right now. I'd like people to take a serious look at Tactics and Assault and try to make them work, because I think the specs have a possibly-undeserved bad reputation. As it stands, any vanguard DPS who isn't using the hybrid is simply laughed out of their progression slot, and that's not good for the class. In the end, hopefully this will also push bioware to address the lingering issues suffered by the full spec builds, if only due to more disenfranchised hybrid players lobbying for the DPS ceiling they lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Now, there are people who make it work. Ctor is an excellent example. But even reading his parses shows the massive variation the spec suffers under. I would rather it not be the "de facto" vanguard DPS spec as it is right now. I'd like people to take a serious look at Tactics and Assault and try to make them work, because I think the specs have a possibly-undeserved bad reputation. As it stands, any vanguard DPS who isn't using the hybrid is simply laughed out of their progression slot, and that's not good for the class. Well almost... Ctor does use Assault against the council... But yeah, with this nerf Vanguards might finally get the buffs to the other full trees they need to be not laughed at. Like maybe a Pulse Generator buff for tactics (33/67/100% from 20/40/60%, so its as good as singularities with smash), and a proc buff for Ionic Accelerator (60/100% instead of 45/75%). /crosses fingers (there was a rant about attempting another hybrid that came to the conculsion it would suck here) I would like to say I am a firm believer in Assault though, and have been trying to get it to work. Buffs plz Edited January 10, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 What I hate is how long there is likely to be between them this nerf, and the follow on buffs, during which downtime, those Vanguard DPS not already having a good raiding home are going to have that much harder a time getting slotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 What I hate is how long there is likely to be between them this nerf, and the follow on buffs, during which downtime, those Vanguard DPS not already having a good raiding home are going to have that much harder a time getting slotted. As much as this has a chance of being true, you have to remember the first kill in NiM Dread Guard had a DPS Guardian - the worst dps class of all of them (its beaten by both vanguard DPS trees). I will say however that I doubt this is gonna wipe C-tor off the DPS charts - he still does pretty damn insane as Assault (look at him in Tyrans or the council) and the skills from the hybrid would go pretty well when put into Tactics (granted he has half as many HiB's and has to spam hammer shots more often... but hey, it still gets the obscenely powerful pulse cannon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson_Paladin Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I knew this would come eventually. Guess I'll have to decide whether to go full Tactics or full Assault. Not really sure which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMagee Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I knew this would come eventually. Guess I'll have to decide whether to go full Tactics or full Assault. Not really sure which. Honestly, I'd say learn them both. They both have their own set of pros and cons. If I had to suggest 1, I'd say go full Assault. There are fights where Tactics would be more useful, and fights where Assault would be more useful. I tend to parse higher in Tactics than Assault, but I absolutely adore the mobility that assault has. I can't think of a single fight that Tactics would be way ahead of Assault. Maybe Calphayus, Bestia or Brontes. I also hope that eventually the disabling of the hybrid will sort of show 36pt VG builds for what they are currently. Sufficient. I do agree that the hybrid has created a sense of false "OP-ness" with VGs. I'd have people ask me why I'm not running the hybrid, and say I'm just gimping myself and that only hybrid VGs are worth it for HM DF/DP, and all that nonsense. Step in the right direction. One of several needed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Honestly, I'd say learn them both. They both have their own set of pros and cons. If I had to suggest 1, I'd say go full Assault. I'd say all hybrid vanguards already learned them both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMagee Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) I'd say all hybrid vanguards already learned them both Could be. Maybe it was just my inability to be intelligent, but being comfortable with Tactics and really comfortable with Assault, I couldn't get comfortable with the feel of the hybrid. And originally for some reason I read his post in a tone of he wasn't lvl.55 yet. Looking back on it now, I have no idea why I read it that way. There's nothing there to suggest he isn't already running the hybrid. And while I agree he's already 75% there with knowing both, AP and/or FP usage is something he'll have to work with. And a priority list that only deals with a single proc. Edited January 10, 2014 by JMagee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBuzKiLingTon Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Firebug Edited January 27, 2014 by MrBuzKiLingTon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paowee Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Well almost... Ctor does use Assault against the council... But yeah, with this nerf Vanguards might finally get the buffs to the other full trees they need to be not laughed at. Like maybe a Pulse Generator buff for tactics (33/67/100% from 20/40/60%, so its as good as singularities with smash), and a proc buff for Ionic Accelerator (60/100% instead of 45/75%). /crosses fingers (there was a rant about attempting another hybrid that came to the conculsion it would suck here) I would like to say I am a firm believer in Assault though, and have been trying to get it to work. Buffs plz And Assault is incredibly good for Brontes too Edited January 28, 2014 by paowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm split in opinion on this matter. I for one don't like one spec being OP and casting a shadow on the others for any advanced class (looks at op/scoundrel healing). I also enjoy experimenting with different hybrid builds for fun and seeing how well I can perform with them. I don't like having to be pushed into 1 of 3 cookie-cutter specs, the thing I enjoy about hybrids is their freedom of choice by the player. Even though I've been playing full tactics for nearly the past year now, I still enjoy(ed) going into various hybrids to test my performance and change playstyles outside of the three skill trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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