Premades are ruining your little expansion

[Danylia]

Is it me, or am I the only one who has fun losing as well? I've solo queued against premades where I knew we'd lose. . . . Still made the best of it and had fun.

There is losing after spending most of the time dogfighting around satellite(s), and losing where you respawn , approach a satellite, get hit by Ion Railgun and right after killed by Slug/Defenders/Turrets, all over again. I honestly admit I do not have fun being farmed the whole match without any real chance to fight back.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Danylia

[SomeJagoff]

I haven't noticed any of these kinds of issues yet.

 

same here, been queuing with my buds and just stomping people, haven't seen a single premade causing any problem for us. Even if we do run into some premades at some point, we got vent, so we should be fine.

[abercromb]

Oh, I fully understand the advantage that premades have when they are in voice. That's why I said the problem isn't solely premades, but also lack of team play by some players..

 

Just come out of a series of terrible matches. All evening it seemed that the worst of the worst got teamed on my side. Of course I was up against premades, but you always are. But players don't help themselves. They don't fly together. Don't attack sat's together. Don't even make sensible choices on what ships to pick. the last match tonight I was in an 8 man and found myself with 5 gunships on my side. Of course we could not take anything. Puts you off the whole thing.

[Ren_simp]

Premades how do you know they are premades?

[Thranta]

The game is designed for team play.

 

I do understand though because the times I have gone against teams while playing with an unorganized solo team you have no chance at all. But this is supposed to happen.

 

The answer is to become organized and play as a team.

 

It is still early and there are limitations right now. I do notice slowly, very slowly, more and more players communicating and winning because of it. I usually ask before a match what’s the plan? Any reply usually means a better experience than no reply and ships flying all over the place.

 

Until there are different modes and matchmaking teams will continue to blow away solo groups.

[Armonddd]

Premades how do you know they are premades?

 

When Mae'thon, Shadowfist, Kyorai, and Rajaat load into every match within seconds of each other and are always placed in the same squadron, it's a good bet we're in a premade.

[Zoom_VI]

Ya, right, the players in Feb will sign on, get owned, realize everyone is weeks/months ahead and they will never catch up; and then they will simply not play and there will never be enough to make matchmaking work.

 

They hosed it the day they released it, how many players who tried it still Q, 1 in 10?

 

Pfft...

 

And everyday some guy out there hits 55 and does his first 55 warzone, and probably gets raped. But guess what? 55 pvp is still alive and kicking.

[Mallorik]

Putting premades up against pugs in this game is just stupid. Matchmaker is supposed to match ship upgrades why on earth would it not match premades which are 10 times more powerful than an upgraded ship.

[PatT]

it's supposed to match ship upgrades? Because if that's the case it does a terrible job. I've seen some terribad ships up against people I know for a fact have been playing 6-10 hours a day since gsf launched. Which means they've got grade 5 upgrades.

 

Even if they were bad (but they aren't) they still one-shot un-upgrade ships.

 

That said, it's true. I've seen teams that scatter and only go for kills. They lose, embarassingly badly. I can get 3 medals and 250 objective points without firing a single shot by defending a satellite. Why would I do for far less, for more work? I get more req by getting those points, and that means defending a turret. If others want to be idiots and run around trying to be stars/heros, they are welcome to it. I'll take that req, upgrade my ship and shoot them down if they get close. If they can't figure that out, well...I guess that's how we keep the riff raff out of the gene pool.

 

*sigh*

[FoxhoundsFinest]

*Edit*

Is it me, or am I the only one who has fun losing as well? I've solo queued against premades where I knew we'd lose. . . . Still made the best of it and had fun.

*End Edit*

 

Don't know about you, but I enjoy winning. The premades on The Ebon Hawk are getting out of hand. Can't snipe on my Gunship without getting attacked from behind because the one I was attacking was probably on TS or Vent or something and told the Scout to destroy me. I don't find that fun one bit.

[Sharee]

There is losing after spending most of the time dogfighting around satellite(s), and losing where you respawn , approach a satellite, get hit by Ion Railgun and right after killed by Slug/Defenders/Turrets, all over again. I honestly admit I do not have fun being farmed the whole match without any real chance to fight back.

 

Why do you approach a satellite when you know there is a ion gunship sitting somewhere shooting anyone who approaches? Hop into a scout, boost/barrel roll high above the fighting plane, zoom over the satellite to the other side, dive back down, find the gunship who never sees you coming, blow it out of the sky before it can react.

 

The problem i see in the game, and indeed in this thread, is the mentality "You have to be fighting at/around the satellites, otherwise you are not contributing". That is absolute nonsense. It is like saying you have to be within melee range of a node in alderaan civil war otherwise you are not contributing.

 

If you are AFK you are not contributing. If you are one of four guys sitting idly at your satellite while enemy holds the other two, you are not contributing. If you are one of five guys after the same scout who leads you all on a merry chase around the map, you are not contributing.

 

But anything else you do, you are an asset to your team. Even if you just duel the same enemy player over and over in the corner of the map, you still removed one player from their team for one on your team, so it's at least neutral. And chasing the same gunship over and over that would otherwise be racking kills in the high teens is *immensely* valuable to your team, even if you never set foot near a satellite the whole match.

[BrianDavion]

sure you can be away from the sat if not contributing, no one denies that. but at the same time if half your team is chasing a scout half way across the map away from the satalite, they're handing that sat to the enemy.

 

chasing a gunship around can sometimes be valueable, but on the other hand it can deny you the cap. it's alll about knowing where the call your limits

Edited December 31, 2013 by BrianDavion

[MCaliban]

If you are one of four guys sitting idly at your satellite while enemy holds the other two, you are not contributing.

 

Yes, fly away from the one satellite you have so that can be taken as well.

 

The majority of the time, games are not lost because people are too busy defending their node. They're lost because no one can be bothered to defend. It's far more fun to rush around the map and shoot stuff than it is to sit still and wait for an attack.

Edited December 31, 2013 by MCaliban

[Sharee]

Yes, fly away from the one satellite you have so that can be taken as well.

 

The majority of the time, games are not lost because people are too busy defending their node. They're lost because no one can be bothered to defend. It's far more fun to rush around the map and shoot stuff than it is to sit still and wait for an attack.

 

<sigh>

 

If the enemy holds two satellites, and 1/3 of your team does nothing but 'defend' the one satellite you hold and the enemy has _no_ reason to ever attack, then you already lost the match.

 

When enemy holds two satellites, you can affort ONE defender at the one you own, at most, and in all seriousness you probably should ALL be attacking, with no guard at all, just watch the minimap to see if the sat is under attack, the three turrets are there for a reason, to give you enough time to get back to it if it needs defending.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Sharee

[Danylia]

Why do you approach a satellite when you know there is a ion gunship sitting somewhere shooting anyone who approaches?

While my example was a generic one, to show the difference between losing and still having fun vs. losing and quitting in disgust, I can respond with actual experience: I do that because the enemy has a Gunship heavy premade, and after getting two satellites there is one fully upgraded Gunship parking atop either of them. Or, I do that because the enemy has 4 organized Gunships, and I cannot approach one without being hit by another.

[Sharee]

While my example was a generic one, to show the difference between losing and still having fun vs. losing and quitting in disgust, I can respond with actual experience: I do that because the enemy has a Gunship heavy premade, and after getting two satellites there is one fully upgraded Gunship parking atop either of them. Or, I do that because the enemy has 4 organized Gunships, and I cannot approach one without being hit by another.

 

In that scenario i would still fly out and attack the gunship who is _not_ parked atop the satellite. 4 gunships covering each other are impossible to touch, i agree, but the gunships are more likely to watch the satellite(and thus see you approach the gunship parked there) than to watch back towards their spawn to cover the gunship in that area.

 

Just evaluate the situation and choose the most effective way to fight. I have a screenshot of a lost game where i am at the top of the board, and my whole team is at the bottom. If you see the match is impossible to win, at least have some fun(instead of doing suicide runs against a sat you won't be able to get anyway.)

[LeonBraun]

The only battles I've been in that seem to be lost causes or unwinnable, are ones where the team is 100% disorganized and on their own agenda, whether being simply kill hunting and ignoring objectives, or just clueless when it comes to team work.

 

I was in one battle earlier tonight where I recognized half a dozen excellent pilots and thought the battle was lost before we got out of the staging window, but we capped all three satellites right from go and held on for a convincing win. When you got even an ounce of teamwork, most battles have a decent chance.

Edited December 31, 2013 by LeonBraun

[abercromb]

The only battles I've been in that seem to be lost causes or unwinnable, are ones where the team is 100% disorganized and on their own agenda, whether being simply kill hunting and ignoring objectives, or just clueless when it comes to team work.

 

I was in one battle earlier tonight where I recognized half a dozen excellent pilots and thought the battle was lost before we got out of the staging window, but we capped all three satellites right from go and held on for a convincing win. When you got even an ounce of teamwork, most battles have a decent chance.

 

The key words for me in your message are Ignoring objectives and Capping all Satellites.

 

Most matches I play in the afternoon I am solo and in most cases I will type in chat before hand. Something "like lets go for A&B, I'm going for B". Sometimes people agree and we get a "I'm going for A" message. Other times nothing. Funnily enough, the times I get a response we normally win. Any communication however small can make the difference.

 

But I have also been in a lot of glory hunting matchers recently where people appear to be very stupid from the start. I am sure everyone by now understands you need to capture the satellites early, Get that good start and the turrets will help you defend. But I still end up half the time as the only Scout at the start. Meaning at best we are two Satellites down after 20 seconds. At worst I get to the Satellite I am after quickly on my own to face 3 scouts from the other team. Matches like that nearly always end badly. Why don't people take the time to look at the other teams make up? Say in chat at the beginning what they are aiming for and give the team a better chance of doing well.

Still I play in a group of friends most evenings and the odds do get better.

[Danylia]

Short story time!

 

I queued for a quick daily and got instant pop, meaning match in progress. I arrived when the score was about 150:350 for the enemy, the final result was 302:1000.

 

Now, look at the scoreboard.

 

Some commentary: I knew 7 names from the enemy team, and I could assign the correct ship to every one of them blindfolded. From my team, I knew 2 names (apart from mine). Not a single person in my team got a kill. The three assists in total we got were three self-destructs of the "newbie" in the opposite team. Two persons in our team didn't get any medal at all.

 

It's OK when matches like this are an exception. But they aren't. And while they (fortunately yet) aren't the norm either, they are getting very close to it.

 

P.S. Out of pure masochism, I queued for a second match to complete the daily. I waited 15 minutes with no pop before logging off. I checked the Kuat and Shipyard instances, they were empty (on Imperial - our faction's - side).

Of course, it may be that the Pubs stopped queueing after getting the daily win. But in my opinion, the other possible explanation is more plausible ...

[UncelSam]

Came back to TOR after bout 6 months, played for about 4 h last evening = Unbalanced teams, about 20 games only 2 wins. How it is not a beta if MM is not working at all ?, I came back for star fighter and i don't think im gone stay till my sub will expire...

 

so true. I agree with you.

 

The game is dying and the devs does nothing at all.

[DEATHICIDE]

This is largely a problem due to this being early access and only subscribers are allowed. With such a limited player pool matchmaking issues crop up, but I imagine when GSF is fully released in February and all account types are granted access this won't be a problem.

 

Not that they shouldn't have coding in place to keep matchmaker from pitting premades against pugs after the full release mind you.

 

It just hit me in the feelings, reading your reply.

 

Is SWTOR truly that hard up that it has so few subscribers that it can't balance gameplay???

 

Bad times indeed.

 

Or could it be that rather than siding with fairness and saying tough **** to the players who don't get a group que pop, they are saying tough **** to the PUG players who do not want to join a group??

 

If this thing launched with two separate queues, I guarantee you that if numbers were the issue, premades would abandon ship and enter the solo que, desperately clinging to their teamspeak in hopes of some of their group ending up in the same game.

 

I hope that made sense because I am nicely toasted right now.

Happy new year!!

Edited January 1, 2014 by DEATHICIDE

[arkanone]

it's a team based game, either get on the boat or go home... there's plenty of other offerings in this game other than GSF...

 

Yeah that's a great idea...you should open up a bar that only allows groups of 4 or 8 in. See how that goes.

 

My sub dollars may not mean much but If MOST people feel like they don't have a chance of winning even if they play well its going to be bad for business.

[BoneEater]

This was the same problem in ground PvP. As I already stated in another thread, have separate queues for premades and pugs or add an exclusive mode for pugs. Fair is fair.

[DanNV]

Yeah that's a great idea...you should open up a bar that only allows groups of 4 or 8 in. See how that goes.

 

My sub dollars may not mean much but If MOST people feel like they don't have a chance of winning even if they play well its going to be bad for business.

 

Exactly.

[Elly_Dawn]

that attitude is fine and dandy if this was a Death-match mode but it is not, it is a King of the Hill mode, a mode that only works if your team works as a whole... there is no room for Cowboys in King of the Hill, Cowboys belong in Death-match which is not available as of yet... what y'all are suggesting is removing the teamwork from a goal oriented mode that requires teamwork to be effective, what y'all really want is a free for all Death-match mode... Edited January 1, 2014 by Elly_Dawn