The way to get rid of Smash

[Sangrar]

Bring back watchman/annihilation and add uncleansable dots and i'd dump smash spec in a heartbeat.

 

at the rate the uncleansable dots are going, how long do I have til my cleanse ability is useless?

[znihilist]

at the rate the uncleansable dots are going, how long do I have til my cleanse ability is useless?

 

If done correctly it would not affect it (and might make it more relevant). For example make them uncleansable during berserk. Berserk comes more often than purging abilities (evade, etc etc) but not frequently enough to affect the normal cleansing abilities. If you also make them only cleansable by a sorc/sage then you increase the incentive of making sure there is a diversity in your team.

[Sangrar]

If done correctly it would not affect it (and might make it more relevant). For example make them uncleansable during berserk. Berserk comes more often than purging abilities (evade, etc etc) but not frequently enough to affect the normal cleansing abilities. If you also make them only cleansable by a sorc/sage then you increase the incentive of making sure there is a diversity in your team.

 

I am a commando, what will I be able to do with my field aid ability?

[olcraft]

If done correctly it would not affect it (and might make it more relevant). For example make them uncleansable during berserk. Berserk comes more often than purging abilities (evade, etc etc) but not frequently enough to affect the normal cleansing abilities. If you also make them only cleansable by a sorc/sage then you increase the incentive of making sure there is a diversity in your team.

 

That is not gonna fix watchman by any means. Watchman definitely needs more protection than that! cleansing 3 stacks of overload saber with just 1 cleanse is just too much! Stop being an apologist! At least it must be protected as much as lethality spec does.

[olcraft]

I am a commando, what will I be able to do with my field aid ability?

 

Unless you wanna super nerf all the burst specs in this game, dots heavy specs need more dots protection! As long as dots are cleansable you have no rights to whine about dot protection.

[Hei_Atzfel]

Smash is not OP, its easy to play but not OP. Just be good at your class and move on.

 

Then let's now throw ALL smash under the same status... You can count how many DPS juggs are in top 100 arena... Focus or vigilance...

 

As for sents? I think they are in a good place right now, smash or no smash.

 

So an AoE that hits 5 targets, can be used anytime, can autocrit, and hits harder than my finisher move almost every single time, is "balanced"? Please, tell me you're joking.

[Sangrar]

Unless you wanna super nerf all the burst specs in this game, dots heavy specs need more dots protection! As long as dots are cleansable you have no rights to whine about dot protection.

 

not whining, just thinking about the future, as it is commando healers been nerfed a lot already, I am not exactly happy about a possibly impending loss on dot cleansing as well, that's all I am saying

[IGenocideI]

It's range is 5 meters, the mara gets a buff showing hes ready for smash, force crush is an obvious indicator, half the dps classes have 30% aoe dmg reduction and the ones who don't have a small cooldown knock back or evasion to cleanse force crush... I mean, have you REALLY not adapted yet to how to counter this skill tree?

[znihilist]

That is not gonna fix watchman by any means. Watchman definitely needs more protection than that! cleansing 3 stacks of overload saber with just 1 cleanse is just too much! Stop being an apologist! At least it must be protected as much as lethality spec does.

 

My main is an annihilation marauder, I don't need a lecture on it.

He said this:

at the rate the uncleansable dots are going, how long do I have til my cleanse ability is useless?

 

His point was that making Annihilation's dots unreleasable would disfavor cleansing abilities, my point was it doesn't necessarily do that. I did not make those suggestions, I did not endorse them, I did not say they are sufficient, nor anything, I am simply replying to this point.

Edited December 28, 2013 by znihilist

[LovarBoy]

So an AoE that hits 5 targets, can be used anytime, can autocrit, and hits harder than my finisher move almost every single time, is "balanced"? Please, tell me you're joking.

 

That's it.

 

It's range is 5 meters, the mara gets a buff showing hes ready for smash, force crush is an obvious indicator, half the dps classes have 30% aoe dmg reduction and the ones who don't have a small cooldown knock back or evasion to cleanse force crush... I mean, have you REALLY not adapted yet to how to counter this skill tree?

 

How can you counter it if more than one of this guys attacks you? You are most likely stunned anyway before that.

[znihilist]

I am a commando, what will I be able to do with my field aid ability?

 

That's a fair point, any sort of changes that leaves certain dots uncleasable by two healers should be compensated by other dots that can't be cleansed by the third. What I am trying to say is, I don't dispute your point and a larger re-work of dots would be in order.

[Savej]

How can you counter it if more than one of this guys attacks you? You are most likely stunned anyway before that.

 

You realize you're talking about a 3v1 scenario, right?

[EzioMessi]

That's it.

 

 

 

How can you counter it if more than one of this guys attacks you? You are most likely stunned anyway before that.

 

You should not win 1v3 against *any* class without a massive skill difference, gear gap or both. Dunno how you can complain about that with a straight face.

 

Oh and are you really complaining about getting stunlocked by a Mara? Really? We don't even have a real 4-sec stun.

[Sangrar]

That's a fair point, any sort of changes that leaves certain dots uncleasable by two healers should be compensated by other dots that can't be cleansed by the third. What I am trying to say is, I don't dispute your point and a larger re-work of dots would be in order.

 

there should probably also be something added showing me what I can and can't cleanse or something am I right? I mean, if changes to dots continue with some becoming uncleansable I want to know at least what I can get rid of, am I right or wrong here?

[LovarBoy]

You realize you're talking about a 3v1 scenario, right?

 

I don't talk about 3v1. It's just the way Smash works. If there are 4 of us and 4 of them, it could be 2 or 3 smash vs us 4 - it's the same.

[IGenocideI]

I don't talk about 3v1. It's just the way Smash works. If there are 4 of us and 4 of them, it could be 2 or 3 smash vs us 4 - it's the same.

 

Dude I'm pretty sure 3 of any class equal gear as you will rip you to shreds unless your some kind of pro...

 

So when 3 AP pt's come at you with full stacks of pft and take turns stunning you and burning you and your team with an aoe that does the same dmg as smash then take turns carbonizing you and death from aboving you are you gunna make a post about them too?

 

 

3 people should ALWAYS beat one... in any situation.. YOU as the player have t learn how to adapt.. Trying to use a situation where 4 smashers are rushing you and you die easily is ridiculous man, I'm pretty sure 4 medicine ops could burn you just the same lol..

[Telaan]

How can you counter it if more than one of this guys attacks you? You are most likely stunned anyway before that.

 

Here is the crux of the problem with these whining nerf threads. The answer to countering more than one of anything is bring more than just yourself.

 

I couldn't care less about smash being nerfed. Nerf smash and watch guardians/jugs become the most irrelevant AC in the game. I don't even have a Mara/Sent, so I don't have a truly vested interest in their viability; but, playing against them on a regular basis I believe the defensive CD nerf put them pretty well in line with where they should be in regards to offense vs defense.

 

Every argument I see that revolves around "how do you beat more than 1 of X?" is laughable at best. In the end, as long as someone dies in PvP there will be a qq nerf thread.

[olcraft]

Only counter for smashtards; If you are a melee class and don't have 30% AOE dmg reduction, go 1vs1 a dps who is far far away from the smasher. If you see too many smash monkeys and you cannot avoid their "Fu*k you puddles", you are a fu*ktard to indulge their smashfest. Rage quit and don't queue until you can make a perfect premade with a healer and a tank who can switch guard on you. Now you see why premades are necessary? Problem Solved!

[Aetideus]

You should not win 1v3 against *any* class without a massive skill difference, gear gap or both. Dunno how you can complain about that with a straight face.

 

Oh and are you really complaining about getting stunlocked by a Mara? Really? We don't even have a real 4-sec stun.

 

Yes...Focus fire of 2 smashers is equal to focus fire of 2 sorcs...

[EzioMessi]

Yes...Focus fire of 2 smashers is equal to focus fire of 2 sorcs...

 

... You haven't been on the receiving end of 3 freecasting sorcs in the same warzone right? (Talking warzones here. Sorcs are gimped in Arenas. But in Warzones they kick ***)

 

Was playing Focus or Combat (don't recall exactly which) *prior* to the GBTF nerf. At least 1 of them was Madness and one was Lightning, and they literally burst me down to 20% health in 1 GCD. Only thing that kept me alive was GBTF. Popped a medpack with GBTF, the moment it wears off, BAM. 1 GCD kill.

 

This is not my way of saying Sorcs are OP. They are barely even competitive in Arenas. But I just wanted to restate the fact that multiple enemies of the same class simply synergize so well that they will one-hit kill an unguarded target.

 

Also, people seem to lose track of exactly *what* the complaint about Smashers is. People first complain that one Smasher has crazy burst against 5 people. Then they complain that 5 Smashers have crazy burst against a single enemy. Which is OP again? The Single Target Burst? Or the AoE burst? Because it can't be both, if it was they clearly wouldn't be the weakest Sentinel spec in PvE.

 

Here's the answer: It's a *perception problem* (yes. I said it. Sue me ). If Smashers had the exact same burst (or higher) spread out among multiple abilities, like a 5k Smash + 5k Cyclone Slash no one would say it is OP. But 8k burst on a single heavy-hitter and the illusion of it being OP appears.

[olcraft]

... You haven't been on the receiving end of 3 freecasting sorcs in the same warzone right? (Talking warzones here. Sorcs are gimped in Arenas. But in Warzones they kick ***)

 

Was playing Focus or Combat (don't recall exactly which) *prior* to the GBTF nerf. At least 1 of them was Madness and one was Lightning, and they literally burst me down to 20% health in 1 GCD. Only thing that kept me alive was GBTF. Popped a medpack with GBTF, the moment it wears off, BAM. 1 GCD kill.

 

This is not my way of saying Sorcs are OP. They are barely even competitive in Arenas. But I just wanted to restate the fact that multiple enemies of the same class simply synergize so well that they will one-hit kill an unguarded target.

 

Also, people seem to lose track of exactly *what* the complaint about Smashers is. People first complain that one Smasher has crazy burst against 5 people. Then they complain that 5 Smashers have crazy burst against a single enemy. Which is OP again? The Single Target Burst? Or the AoE burst? Because it can't be both, if it was they clearly wouldn't be the weakest Sentinel spec in PvE.

 

Here's the answer: It's a *perception problem* (yes. I said it. Sue me ). If Smashers had the exact same burst (or higher) spread out among multiple abilities, like a 5k Smash + 5k Cyclone Slash no one would say it is OP. But 8k burst on a single heavy-hitter and the illusion of it being OP appears.

 

The problem is they have considerable single target burst that not only screws his target but screws every melee classes around his target. That's why this class is broken. No AOE attacks in any other mmos hit as hard as smashes in this game. Melee classes can't focus target a fu*king sh*t without eating those smashes. If you are a ranged dps you can at least try to kite them. (I have yet to learn how to kite a smash marauder as a dps commando..... enlighten me if you can) If you are a melee you have no other fu*king choice but to eat them. Do you guys get it? In a game where focus firing is absolutely necessary to kill a target through guarding and healing, you are discouraged from focus firing with auto-crit Killing Blows grade AOE smashes every 12 seconds. That's what's broken about this spec.

[masih_ad_dajjal]

Dont group so close together... it's that simple. I consider an adept merc, sorc or sniper much more dangerous... 9k in one hit then not hit me again for 3 sec or so due to push back root etc.... or 20k in 5 sec and I cant reach you with stun etc?

 

Get over it.

Edited December 29, 2013 by masih_ad_dajjal
clarity

[olcraft]

Dont group so close together... it's that simple. I consider an adept merc, sorc or sniper much more dangerous... 9k in one hit then not hit me again for 3 sec or so due to push back root etc.... or 20k in 5 sec and I cant reach you with stun etc?

 

Get over it.

 

How can you not get clustered together when you have too many smash monkeys running around you? There is literally no ground to step on where fighting is happening. What are we supposed to? fu*k off and wait it out until the match is over? There is literally no way other than forcing your healer and tank to babysit you. You are a fu*king liabiliity!.

 

I am done with this discussion. It's pointless to discuss it with people who refuse to recognize what is wrong with the smash spec. No matter what i say, you are always going to find a way to defend why "Smash spec is not broken". You will never believe what other guys say, because you don't want to believe it. If you guys knew, this thread would've died a long time ago.

[EzioMessi]

The problem is they have considerable single target burst that not only screws his target but screws every melee classes around his target. That's why this class is broken. No AOE attacks in any other mmos hit as hard as smashes in this game. Melee classes can't focus target a fu*king sh*t without eating those smashes. If you are a ranged dps you can at least try to kite them. (I have yet to learn how to kite a smash marauder as a dps commando..... enlighten me if you can) If you are a melee you have no other fu*king choice but to eat them. Do you guys get it? In a game where focus firing is absolutely necessary to kill a target through guarding and healing, you are discouraged from focus firing with auto-crit Killing Blows grade AOE smashes every 12 seconds. That's what's broken about this spec.

 

Actually, their single target burst isn't considerable at all. It's quick and frontloaded, but not big-huge-massive like the way many people claim. Sweep 8k > Zealous Leap 4k. Then what? Bladestorm and Master Strike are both wet noodles in this spec. They have only about 12k single-target burst (only with a lucky crit on the Leap). Combat has about 20k with absolutely no crits, which is rarity. Shadows have so much burst that a healthbar isn't even enough to judge the size of it. Other classes have higher ST burst as well, although I don't recall specific numbers.

 

Smashers who focus a single enemy are doing it wrong. Their strength lies in massive AoE damage. If there's a healer that is healing a group of say 3 DPS, it should be the Combat Sents and Vigi Guardians going after the healers, the Smasher simply has to drop into the biggest nearby group, and either force them to split up through sheer damage pressure, or kill them off if they don't split up. A Smasher chasing a single RDPS or healer is wasting his time.

 

So if a Smasher is tunneling you, you can simply try and kill him before he kills you. And believe me, that's more then possible. They have about 7.5-10.5 seconds of fillers, and their "burst-phase" gives them about 12k single target damage. Then another 10.5 seconds of fillers.

[olcraft]

Actually, their single target burst isn't considerable at all. It's quick and frontloaded, but not big-huge-massive like the way many people claim. Sweep 8k > Zealous Leap 4k. Then what? Bladestorm and Master Strike are both wet noodles in this spec. They have only about 12k single-target burst (only with a lucky crit on the Leap). Combat has about 20k with absolutely no crits, which is rarity. Shadows have so much burst that a healthbar isn't even enough to judge the size of it. Other classes have higher ST burst as well, although I don't recall specific numbers.

 

Smashers who focus a single enemy are doing it wrong. Their strength lies in massive AoE damage. If there's a healer that is healing a group of say 3 DPS, it should be the Combat Sents and Vigi Guardians going after the healers, the Smasher simply has to drop into the biggest nearby group, and either force them to split up through sheer damage pressure, or kill them off if they don't split up. A Smasher chasing a single RDPS or healer is wasting his time.

 

So if a Smasher is tunneling you, you can simply try and kill him before he kills you. And believe me, that's more then possible. They have about 7.5-10.5 seconds of fillers, and their "burst-phase" gives them about 12k single target damage. Then another 10.5 seconds of fillers.

 

As i said it's totally pointless to discuss this with any of you. Go play as a vig guardian or a scrapper scoundrel against a team that has at least 3 smashers in their reg or 2 in an arena team while your team has no healer or tank. Good Luck.