$100 in a couple clicks. SCARY.

[branmakmuffin]

That's a fine argument if we was buying suitcases, but we're not, we're buying it for what it contains. Since once you open the pack, the pack is gone, in your hands are the content. So don't act stupid, you know what this is about.

And you get exactly what the tool tip says it will contain. So don't act silly. You know what this is about.

 

Bull crap bran. I call it gambling because I'm not a freaking moron. It IS. It OBVIOUSLY is.

Your bombast is noted, again. At this point, I suspect you are just trolling me.

Edited December 13, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Wintermist]

And you get exactly what the tool tip says it will contain. So don't act stupid. You know what this is about.

 

What you get is a random item, you don't get exactly what it is. You have a CHANCE to get an item of what is listed. (And it's not even naming what items you have a chance to get, you can sort of make out if you look at the picture, but that's not very clear at that.).

 

You really are being an idiot now, I think. If this is how you think of this, then let me counter it with this.

 

You go into a casino. You put down your money, you have a chance to get money back. It's all perfectly understood. You know what you can get back. Why is THAT called gambling, but this pack is not? Explain that to me.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Wintermist

[branmakmuffin]

What you get is a random item, you don't get exactly what it is.

Tool tip says 2 rares and a chance for a super-rare (or whatever the exact wording is). And you get exactly that. You never get nothing. That would be gambling.

[TUXs]

Your bombast is noted, again. At this point, I suspect you are just trolling me.

Not at all. But I do believe that YOU probably are because you're being very antagonistic in this thread...or maybe I misjudged your intellect and you truly do believe that the packs aren't gambling because you don't quite understand the concept of throwing money at unknown returns.

[Wintermist]

Tool tip says 2 rares and a chance for a super-rare (or whatever the exact wording is). And you get exactly that. You never get nothing. That would be gambling.

 

Here is what I am thinking right now: This guy really is a massive tool.

 

Here's the very definition of gambling: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gambling

Edited December 13, 2013 by Wintermist

[branmakmuffin]

Not at all. But I do believe that YOU probably are because you're being very antagonistic in this thread...or maybe I misjudged your intellect and you truly do believe that the packs aren't gambling because you don't quite understand the concept of throwing money at unknown returns.

Maybe I misjudged your intellect because you believe the packs are gambling.

[TUXs]

Maybe I misjudged your intellect because you believe the packs are gambling.

 

This is the same old "no I'm not, but you are" argument you've been spewing for a few pages. I'll agree that we have very obviously misjudged each others intellect and I wish you luck.

[branmakmuffin]

This is the same old "no I'm not, but you are" argument you've been spewing for a few pages.

And you've been doing ...?

 

You seem to think that putting stuff in caps makes it just that much more compelling.

 

It's been explained ad nauseum by me and others why it's not gambling, yet you keep asking for more indicators why it's not gambling. I suspect "gambling" is a tender subject for you, for whatever reason, thus your bizarre views on this issue.

Edited December 13, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[DOHboy]

Bull crap bran. I call it gambling because I'm not a freaking moron. It IS. It OBVIOUSLY is. To deny that it's gambling is sheer lunacy. When I invest coins into a "pack", I am very clearly gambling on the contents of that pack or the return I'll get from selling the pack. Every bit of buying a pack is "gambling".

 

Spending CC on an item like a speeder or one of the armor pieces is NOT gambling, but any time you exchange one item with a value (CCs) for another of unknown value (packs), it's gambling.

 

I don't like the practice, but I don't fault them for it. WE control the success of the gambling packs. If we want it to stop, WE have the power to end it this week...but WE don't.

 

See I know where you are going with this, its the "chance" "random" of what is in said pack. However, the fundamental problem is that to consider something a "gamble" over say "random event" is the risk. And that is the part everyone is missing. Some choose to fixate on the randomness, well in that case life is a "gamble" whether you hit a red light or a green light is essentially "random" but I don't think anyone would call it a "gamble". Go to a new restaurant and there is a "risk/chance' you will not like the good...is that a gamble? Buy something off craigs-list without seeing the product, risky/stupid, but not a "gamble".

 

We ALL agree that there is a random probability that the pack will contain something different each time you open it. Fact not refuted. The part people tend to pass over is the "risk" portion of "gambling" there is nothing being "risked". Yes they are purchased with real money, but purchasing something sight un-seen is NOT gambling.

 

Purchasing something that has a random chance of being one thing or another is not a "gamble" there is no risk. Does it feed on the primal aspects of human nature (which is why fishing can be so dang addictive), sure. Is it "gambling", no.

 

The "risk" here is the perception of the value of what you get in return. ON AVERAGE, the value of the packs are worth 320CC, if you purchased individual items from packs contents (if it were possible). What the GTN/Free market deems them worth (in credits) may be different. But in general the value of the contents of the packs would be 320CC on average. But when you look at the "value" from a "what people want" thats harder to register.

[DOHboy]

Here is what I am thinking right now: This guy really is a massive tool.

 

Here's the very definition of gambling: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gambling

 

go look back to posts 77 and 85 (or roughly there about). the dictionary definition (legal definition) does not hold.

 

And the trip around the mobius strip continues....

[Wintermist]

go look back to posts 77 and 85 (or roughly there about). the dictionary definition (legal definition) does not hold.

 

And the trip around the mobius strip continues....

 

We can all agree or disagree on the definition then. to me it's a gamble. And this is the last I will say in the thread:

 

BioWare, I find it shameful that knowing how that money is spent you added an option for $100 to buy these coins. You know people are after certain items, and will spend real money to try and get it. Had you been supportive and appreciative of this, you would have added the option to buy all items directly with the coins instead, or as an alternative on top of a random box.

 

You didn't. You are taking advantage of people. This is what I am thinking. This is why I think you should be ashamed. It's a Star Wars game, not many had a right to make a Star Wars game, and this is where you're taking it.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Wintermist
typo

[Infernixx]

We can all agree or disagree on the definition then. to me it's a gamble. And this is the last I will say in the thread:

 

BioWare, I find it shameful that knowing how that money is spent you added an option for $100 to buy these coins. You know people are after certain items, and will spend real money to try and get it. Had you been supportive and appreciative of this, you would have added the option to buy all items directly with the coins instead, or as an alternative on top of a random box.

 

You didn't. You are taking advantage of people. This is what I am thinking. This is why I think you should be ashamed. It's a Star Wars game, not many had a right to make a Star Wars game, and this is where you're taking it.

 

How dare they sell stuff to people who aren't you for money that isn't yours!

 

This is a Poutrage!

Edited December 13, 2013 by Infernixx

[ikinai]

You guys want a to see a gambler down on their luck? I'll head over to building C here at work, that's where our counselors for problem gambling work. These cartel packs are not gambling. There is no risk. When you gamble you put something at risk for potential gain, there is nothing to gain from these cartel packs, so there is no risk in the purchase. You can't wear the digital robes of Sith Overlordness, you can't sell them for real money, that excludes the gain part of the equation. If you could get something of real value from it, then yes it could be considered a gamble, but as there is no gain to be had, and there is no risk either, there is nothing to gamble on.

[branmakmuffin]

go look back to posts 77 and 85 (or roughly there about). the dictionary definition (legal definition) does not hold.

 

And the trip around the mobius strip continues....

Even the definitions they provide do not support that it's gambling. But whatever reason, it's stuck in their craw that it simply must be described as gambling.

[HoloTweed]

We can all agree or disagree on the definition then. to me it's a gamble. And this is the last I will say in the thread:

 

BioWare, I find it shameful that knowing how that money is spent you added an option for $100 to buy these coins. You know people are after certain items, and will spend real money to try and get it. Had you been supportive and appreciative of this, you would have added the option to buy all items directly with the coins instead, or as an alternative on top of a random box.

 

You didn't. You are taking advantage of people. This is what I am thinking. This is why I think you should be ashamed. It's a Star Wars game, not many had a right to make a Star Wars game, and this is where you're taking it.

 

You can think the sky is red if you want but you would be wrong about that, too. It's not a gamble, it's not gambling, it's not shameful to add an option for $100 of coins when people are using multiple purchases to buy that many. It's a CONVENIENCE. There is nothing to be ashamed about on Bioware's fault at all. Players obviously WANT that option. So, actually, kudos to BW for adding it. (I wouldn't spend that kind of money on coins but that doesn't mean others who would shouldn't get the opportunity.)

[DOHboy]

Even the definitions they provide do not support that it's gambling. But whatever reason, it's stuck in their craw that it simply must be described as gambling.

 

I here by change the definition of gambling and urge you to call your congressmen/women to propose legislation to prevent/regulate the sale of these packs. Before you know it, people who are playing this game will be going out and buying baseball cards or pokemon cards in hope of "collecting them all". In no time at all we'll be hearing stories of kids prostituting themselves so they can have enough money to buy entire BOXES of packs of cards, spending $100 or more a day on pack and eagerly waiting for the next set to start collecting that. IT will be chaos in the streets, schools will become havens for blackmarket trading where people will trade their excess cards for new ones to sell them to get more packs so they can trade them more...Soon all those excess cards will end up in boxes in attics everywhere taking up space that would be best used for useless junk, or being destroyed in spokes of tires of bicycles.

 

World as we know it is going to end all because of this game is feeding the addiction of those who can not help themselves and probably have bigger problems playing a game 20 hours a day.

[Exly]

Maybe I misjudged your intellect because you believe the packs are gambling.

 

Whether or not it meets the strict definition of gambling that you are clinging to, when you buy a cartel pack with the intent of getting a specific item you are playing the odds just like you do when you are gambling. So, even if it would not be considered gambling in a court of law, it is none the less so much like gambling that to refer to is as gambling certainly seem reasonable to me.

 

Also, by your definition, If I were to place a one hundred dollar bill into one envelope, and a one dollar bill into ninety nine envelopes, and I were to sell these envelopes for ten dollars a piece, then your argument suggests that people who buy these envelopes are not gambling. I disagree.

 

I also did a Google search on the words "gambling definition", and the second detention that it returned was, "take risky action in the hope of a desired result", Now, using that detention I ask you if buying cartel pack or buying my envelopes would be gambling. I think that in practical terms that both purchases are a form a gambling. Continue to disagree if you want, but you really shouldn't expect to change any reasonable persons mind on this.

[MillionsKNives]

Also, by your definition, If I were to place a one hundred dollar bill into one envelope, and a one dollar bill into ninety nine envelopes, and I were to sell these envelopes for ten dollars a piece, then your argument suggests that people who buy these envelopes are not gambling. I disagree.

 

Do I really need to debunk this again...

 

Edit: Also, I've checked the website and in-game and find no option to purchase $100 of coins.

Edited December 13, 2013 by MillionsKNives

[Infernixx]

Whether or not it meets the strict definition of gambling that you are clinging to, when you buy a cartel pack with the intent of getting a specific item you are playing the odds just like you do when you are gambling. So, even if it would not be considered gambling in a court of law, it is none the less so much like gambling that to refer to is as gambling certainly seem reasonable to me.

 

Also, by your definition, If I were to place a one hundred dollar bill into one envelope, and a one dollar bill into ninety nine envelopes, and I were to sell these envelopes for ten dollars a piece, then your argument suggests that people who buy these envelopes are not gambling. I disagree.

 

I also did a Google search on the words "gambling definition", and the second detention that it returned was, "take risky action in the hope of a desired result", Now, using that detention I ask you if buying cartel pack or buying my envelopes would be gambling. I think that in practical terms that both purchases are a form a gambling. Continue to disagree if you want, but you really shouldn't expect to change any reasonable persons mind on this.

 

You can buy the Cartel Packs with whatever intention you like, it's a free country. But, just because it doesn't yield what you want it to yield, that doesn't make it a gamble.

 

And you can't get mad because your self-imposed expectations weren't met by a system that promised you nothing.

[DOHboy]

Whether or not it meets the strict definition of gambling that you are clinging to, when you buy a cartel pack with the intent of getting a specific item you are playing the odds just like you do when you are gambling. So, even if it would not be considered gambling in a court of law, it is none the less so much like gambling that to refer to is as gambling certainly seem reasonable to me.

 

Also, by your definition, If I were to place a one hundred dollar bill into one envelope, and a one dollar bill into ninety nine envelopes, and I were to sell these envelopes for ten dollars a piece, then your argument suggests that people who buy these envelopes are not gambling. I disagree.

 

I also did a Google search on the words "gambling definition", and the second detention that it returned was, "take risky action in the hope of a desired result", Now, using that detention I ask you if buying cartel pack or buying my envelopes would be gambling. I think that in practical terms that both purchases are a form a gambling. Continue to disagree if you want, but you really shouldn't expect to change any reasonable persons mind on this.

 

what are you risking?

 

In your example, you are selling them for MORE than the "value" of the contents. If you were to sell them for $1 with the chance that one of them contains $100 not gambling. Here is the flaw in your example. you are placing a value of $1 on all the contents by placing in them $1

 

why baseball cards etc work is that the price of production is less than the cost of what they sell them for. And the market has placed on them a value ABOVE the cost of materials. i.e contains $0.05 worth of cardboard and paint per pack. Sells for $3, market says one card will be worth minimum $5 (rare) but may be worth as much as $500 (super rare). You do not risk anything since the contents of those packs are constructed that their expected value would be roughly the price they are put at.

 

In the case of these DIGITAL packs, people purchase them knowing that some of the items they get from the packs will in general will be worth as much or more than the value of the coins used to purchase them (geese thats how economics works..go figure). AT minimum packs will contain items that are valued at roughly the cost of the pack (i.e. a random rare will be worth roughly 160CC two rares probably 320CC). Now what those sell for on the GTN, may not be the same price that BW puts on those items.

 

back to your envelope idea. It costs you $0.10 to make, sell for $0.20 and contain a coupon for a $0.50 item, state than one out of 20 will contain $1.00 but otherwise you are getting a coupon in an envelope.

 

Have you ever gotten a scratchoff 'coupon' where you purchase something, and get a coupon for 5,10.20% off? is that "gambling" that you could get 20% off but in general will get 5%?

[TUXs]

You guys want a to see a gambler down on their luck? I'll head over to building C here at work, that's where our counselors for problem gambling work. These cartel packs are not gambling. There is no risk. When you gamble you put something at risk for potential gain, there is nothing to gain from these cartel packs, so there is no risk in the purchase. You can't wear the digital robes of Sith Overlordness, you can't sell them for real money, that excludes the gain part of the equation. If you could get something of real value from it, then yes it could be considered a gamble, but as there is no gain to be had, and there is no risk either, there is nothing to gamble on.

The "potential gain" is the virtual "thing/item" they want. They purchase "chances to win" uncertain (risk) things with Cartel Coins.

 

And these items DO have real value. Maybe not to a huge audience, but the items you can get from a pack most certainly do have a "real" value. While you can't sell them without breaking the ToS for real money, the market does exists for them, hence they most certainly do have "value".

[ikinai]

The "potential gain" is the virtual "thing/item" they want. They purchase "chances to win" uncertain (risk) things with Cartel Coins.

 

And these items DO have real value. Maybe not to a huge audience, but the items you can get from a pack most certainly do have a "real" value. While you can't sell them without breaking the ToS for real money, the market does exists for them, hence they most certainly do have "value".

 

It's still not gambling, you the purchaser aren't risking anything. If there was the possibility that you would get nothing at all from the packs, then I would concede that there is real risk to gain potential. But, the fact remains that you will get something in return for purchase. I am reminded of a Rolling Stones song, 'You can't always get what you want.'

[DimmuJanKaarl]

Just wanted to step in *again* and express my hope that people will express their thoughts on what I actually talked about in my op. also i would encourage you to read my two follow-on posts; hopefully those will help, along with re-reading my op, to get things back on track here. once again, I apologize for using the word "gamble" or its derivatives. thanks to those of you who support and/or spoke to the spirit and intent of my OP.

[MillionsKNives]

Just wanted to step in *again* and express my hope that people will express their thoughts on what I actually talked about in my op. also i would encourage you to read my two follow-on posts; hopefully those will help, along with re-reading my op, to get things back on track here. once again, I apologize for using the word "gamble" or its derivatives. thanks to those of you who support and/or spoke to the spirit and intent of my OP.

 

I looked on the site and in game and couldn't find any option for buying $100 worth of coins.

[DimmuJanKaarl]

I looked on the site and in game and couldn't find any option for buying $100 worth of coins.

 

If it helps, I'll post a screen shot when I get home from work this evening. I can understand if you are skeptical. my guess, as has been others', is that this feature is available after you've bought a certain number of cc's.