[Scouts] Missile Choice Debate

[Whitelightr]

I've hit the point where I need to pick a missile type on my main Scout ship (Flashfire). I'm STILL torn between cluster or Sabotage! I've used both, each upgraded to rank 1-2 (cant remember which) and I just cant pick one to max first lol. Right now I'm leaning towards Cluster, it seems the upgrades for it are better designed and that will lead to it out performing Sabotage down the road. But with my setup the extra 'control' from Sab is nice, and the bottom of the Sab upgrade tree is attractive enough to compensate for the rest of the tree.

 

My setup is damage focus with (at best) average defenses. If anyone has Cluster or Sabotage maxxed out or near it I'd appreciate some input on it at those levels.

[Sangrar]

I don't know about cluster but I know sabotage probe has only 500m range, so unless you are able to lock on enough time while in very close range consistently then you should go with something with a bit more range, trust me 500m range is...tricky to say the least, especially when its a live moving target

[Taleek]

I prefer cluster, I may just not have used sabotage enough but the cluster has a lot faster lock on, and the sabotage probes never seemed to do much to the opponent to me. The cluster missiles are great for finishing opponents off, and the shield piercing is especially nice for that. That's my thoughts, although I might end up changing my mind down the road if I ever bother to max out sab probes.

[Juniormonk]

I'm 100%

. It has helped me get so many more kills than any other secondary. You get 5-8 seconds of nonstop dps once it lands on your target. If you use this while at "B" in Kuat or at "C" in Shipyard your enemy will fly into the wall and crash. I almost have it fully upgraded. At the highest tier they lose engine component ability and reduce speed by 35%. Deadly combo.

[wishihadaname]

Sab probes all the way. Cluster missles are not much longer range but they really lack punch. They are annoying, but will do little more than tickle a strike fighter with his shields powered. Sab probe on the other hand is incredibly useful for hunting gunships and removing orbiters. If you hit someone with it in a tight environment they WILL crash, usually because they blow an engine maneuver to try to get out of flying in a straight line. Once you max out the probe, it shuts them out of their engine ability and also saps 40% of the engine pool. If thats not a death sentence I don't know what is.

[Saerosxx]

I have to disagree partially with running Sabotage, until it is properly upgraded it is very easy to evade even IF it hit you (boosting away or even stopping) and on top of it the lock on time is very long and a skilled pilot is very hard to hit with it in the first place. It may have some use against gunships tho.

 

Al tho the punch that cluster missiles carry might seem low it is all a matter of upgrades and or abilities. Personally I use it in the combination with bypass with adds additional 35% of shield-pen to the 10% you get out of the Tier 2 (witch works on ALL weapons not just blaster) and the 15% dott in the Tier 5 is a deadly combination for finishing off targets that are low on HP but have a full shield or used a shield charging skill.

[GalacticKegger]

I'm 100%

. It has helped me get so many more kills than any other secondary. You get 5-8 seconds of nonstop dps once it lands on your target. If you use this while at "B" in Kuat or at "C" in Shipyard your enemy will fly into the wall and crash. I almost have it fully upgraded. At the highest tier they lose engine component ability and reduce speed by 35%. Deadly combo.

Can't say I'm 100% Sabotage, but my favorite Scout build is built around it.

 

I wrote this in another thread somewhere, so at the risk of looking too much like Microsoft I'm lifting it and applying most of it here. I have a dps dogfighting loadout and a CC "Turret Toast" loadout. Turret Toast is my favorite because, while it's not set up for head-to-head kills, it is a nice stun, gun & run build against stationary targets like turrets and gunships.

 

- Primary: Rapid Fire Laser Cannons spec'd into Hull Damage, which takes advantage of ...

- Secondary: Sabotage Probe spec'd into Power Regen Slowed for turret and ship disabling

- Systems: Booster Recharge spec'd into Quick Boost

- Shields: Distortion Shields spec'd into Disable Enemy Missile Lock for the uber evasion

- Engines: Barrel Roll spec'd into Ship Speed

- Lightweight Armor for added evasion

- Frequency Capacitor for the extra rate of fire

- Dampening Sensors to inhibit enemy radar, and

- Power Thrusters for "gotta go!" speed and opening bell sat capping.

 

This build works well with another dps Scout or a Strike as the stun that sets up the kill. Sabotage the enemy systems rendering them DIW for 7 seconds and strafe them as you pass while your wing man finishes up. This works well against gunships ... and turrets.

 

Turrets are flash paper once disabled because they can't shoot back. Spec'ing into hull damage and increasing the RoF with the Frequency Capacitor will allow you to clear a turret in one coasting speed pass; while three Scouts with this build can recap a whole satellite in seconds. If a sniping gunship tries locking on the extra evade will allow you to finish the job, with the Quick Boost + Barrel Roll ship speed + extra Thrusters getting you the hell out of there. Just find a hole and go.

 

It's a great "piss off the bad guys" build. Your kills probably won't be huge but you will be hard to kill, should be an assist magnet and can recap a satellite in short order.

Edited December 12, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[Dustotepp]

You aren't looking at Rocket Pods at all?

 

I *love* rocket pods. I was actually 3 tiers into clusters and have decided to switch back to the rockets. Statwise, they aren't bad: Decent damage, long range, 20% shield piercing before upgrades. The best thing about them though is how fast they are. Combine that with how many you carry (32 without crew upgrades), and you can just toss them out whenever you think you might hit. Obviously, no lock-on means they are hard to hit moving targets at range, but at close range they are fast enough that if you are firing blasters at the same time and are on target, you can hit them with rockets too. If you get into a head-to-head chicken style fight, dropping rockets just before you pass your opponent works surprisingly well.

 

That is all dogfighting though, and where rocket pods really shine is against objectives. Being able to fire 3 rockets in 2 seconds goes through turrets tremendously fast.

[Ridickilis]

- Primary: Rapid Fire Laser Cannons spec'd into hull damage, which takes advantage of ...

- Secondary: Sabotage Probe for turret and ship disabling spec'd into Power Regen Slowed

- Systems: Booster Recharge spec'd into Quick Boost

- Shields: Distortion Shields spec'd into Disable Enemy Missile Lock for the uber evasion

- Engines: Barrel Roll spec'd into Ship Speed

- Lightweight armor for added evasion

- Frequency Capacitor for the extra rate of fire

- Dampening Sensors to inhibit enemy radar, and

- Power Thrusters for "gotta go!" speed and opening bell sat capping.

 

That's almost exactly my blackbolt setup.

 

The only things I did differently:

 

Primary weapon: I did like the heavy laser for the little extra range, accuracy and damage. Has a good range synergy with the sab probe (both 5k+ range)

 

Systems: I use the beacon. I do miss the engine regeneration but I find myself node guarding a lot on my scout so I seem to make better use of the -10 evasion for all enemies in my (now) 10,000km. Once I get the second one unlocked, that's almost 20,000k of coverage if the two are placed right. Or drop on on one sat where someone else is hanging and drop another on the next one I go to.

 

Engines: Turning thrusters On man, these are so good on a scout. I can orbit right under the fins at max speed with ease. It just makes weaving in and out of objects so much easier. I love the tight quarters with this ship.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Ridickilis

[GalacticKegger]

That's almost exactly my blackbolt setup.

 

The only things I did differently:

 

Primary weapon: I did like the heavy laser for the little extra range, accuracy and damage. Has a good range synergy with the sab probe (both 5k+ range)

 

Systems: I use the beacon. I do miss the engine regeneration but I find myself node guarding a lot on my scout so I seem to make better use of the -10 evasion for all enemies in my (now) 10,000km. Once I get the second one unlocked, that's almost 20,000k of coverage if the two are placed right. Or drop on on one sat where someone else is hanging and drop another on the next one I go to.

 

Engines: Turning thrusters On man, these are so good on a scout. I can orbit right under the fins at max speed with ease. It just makes weaving in and out of objects so much easier. I love the tight quarters with this ship.

I like the Phalanx effect of the Rapid Fire Laser Cannons, especially since I rarely find myself needing anything for long range with this build. If you have enough sustainable speed to Velcro a target then extra weapon range isn't needed.

 

Beacon is also a good choice for the evasion and is something I'm still min/max comparing to Boosters in the static defense vs. evac/closing speed debate. If I find that speed has reached the point of diminishing returns and the loss of Boost still provides me with more boost range than a hightailing gunship after a high speed strafing run, and/or still gets me from one sat to another without slowing down, then Beacon would definitely become the System of choice.

 

Because my build is better served hunting down gunships as well as turret killing, I try not to stick around nodes after they are captured unless I'm the only one there. So turning radius is sacrificed for longer range at boost speed. I miss out on Objectives points because of it, but the loss of an enemy gunship or recap of the next satellite plays more to this build's strengths. I'm also looking at Regen Thrusters, which may turn out to be even better for this build.

 

Cheers!

Edited December 12, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[Vember]

You aren't looking at Rocket Pods at all?

 

I *love* rocket pods. I was actually 3 tiers into clusters and have decided to switch back to the rockets. Statwise, they aren't bad: Decent damage, long range, 20% shield piercing before upgrades. The best thing about them though is how fast they are. Combine that with how many you carry (32 without crew upgrades), and you can just toss them out whenever you think you might hit. Obviously, no lock-on means they are hard to hit moving targets at range, but at close range they are fast enough that if you are firing blasters at the same time and are on target, you can hit them with rockets too. If you get into a head-to-head chicken style fight, dropping rockets just before you pass your opponent works surprisingly well.

 

That is all dogfighting though, and where rocket pods really shine is against objectives. Being able to fire 3 rockets in 2 seconds goes through turrets tremendously fast.

 

This, rocket pods are my favorite missile load out

[Icebergy]

Cluster is horrible. You should be using Sabotage or Rocket Pods depending on your play style.

[sentawan]

I have sabotage on one scout and clusters on the other. Both are tier 4.

 

I prefer the faster added dps of the cluster and look forward to finally unlocking tier 5 30% boost. With my quad lasers (T5 shield damage), I tear through the shields as the cluster is charging and let it go for quick dps. Since I spend most of my time weaving satellites, that is the best combo for me.

 

The sabotage probe is the better overall missile, especially for rangier solo kills and to lock down an enemy so others can focus fire. It takes too long to charge on satellites if you are keeping the node from being captured. There is also the problem that if you do not hit an enemy with lasers, they cannot hit "r" to target you. So, if you want to ensure that they don't turn on you while getting a lock... you have to waste time not dps'n with lasers until the probe is released. Then you are most likely guaranteed a kill. Add the fact that speed scouts lack firepower, and this increases the already long amount of time it takes to kill someone. Of course, if they are targeting someone else, you can fire lasers while locking the probe, and it is much quicker.

 

If I used my scout to chase gunships, I would choose sabotage probe. Since I use my scout to capture and hold nodes, I use cluster. I couldn't hit anything with rocket pods, so I have no opinion on those.

Edited December 12, 2013 by sentawan

[reclipsed]

You aren't looking at Rocket Pods at all?

 

I *love* rocket pods. I was actually 3 tiers into clusters and have decided to switch back to the rockets. Statwise, they aren't bad: Decent damage, long range, 20% shield piercing before upgrades. The best thing about them though is how fast they are. Combine that with how many you carry (32 without crew upgrades), and you can just toss them out whenever you think you might hit. Obviously, no lock-on means they are hard to hit moving targets at range, but at close range they are fast enough that if you are firing blasters at the same time and are on target, you can hit them with rockets too. If you get into a head-to-head chicken style fight, dropping rockets just before you pass your opponent works surprisingly well.

 

That is all dogfighting though, and where rocket pods really shine is against objectives. Being able to fire 3 rockets in 2 seconds goes through turrets tremendously fast.

 

 

Agree about Rocket Pods. They are great because they don't alarm your target with bells and whistles making them freak out with their engine specials. If you're close enough to hit with primary, you're close enough to blast them with Pods.

[Zaxem]

i love my cluster missles fast lock on time decent damage + i put a dot on them when it hits personally if you are gonna go the sabotage probe route i would only do it with the default scout the blackbolt or w/e the pub version is called