Vember Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) I can't understand why this discussion is going for so long... Not only there are mathematical justifications on why current system is better than self-heals Let me stop you right there. In end game pve, yes. In pvp, no. Edited September 10, 2014 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) I can't understand why this discussion is going for so long... Not only there are mathematical justifications on why current system is better than self-heals but from a qualititive point of view, shadow tanks are not spikey as they used to be which is great for both then tanks themselves as well as the healers in the group. So, defo no to self-heals. Regarding the duration debate both pvers and pvpers are right... it might be fine for pve but it really is not fine for pvp. Simple solution 4-piece pvp set extends the duration by 6s or something. I am against all other solutions as cool as they sound cause they will increase the dps of shadow tanks which is already fine, making them the most desirable tanks then. EDIT: And yes shadow tanks require more focus from the player than the other two... some people enjoy it and play the class, others don't and maybe should consider an easier and less forgiving tank class? That is a nice idea - set bonus - but I am afraid not enough for pvp. Hybrid, ex 25-21-0 with tank gear is by far superior to full tank tree for pvp. Edited September 10, 2014 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Let me stop you right there. In end game pve, yes. In pvp, no. Premature is never good, feel sorry for the girl. Now read the rest Winston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 That is a nice idea - set bonus - but I am afraid not enough for pvp. Hybrid, ex 25-21-0 with tank gear is by far superior to full tank tree for pvp. Why do you think that? I would think that as hybrid you miss out on slow time and other nice things that increase surv and tank utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Why do you think that? I would think that as hybrid you miss out on slow time and other nice things that increase surv and tank utility. It is nice in PvE but in pvp hybrid has low slash. Edited September 11, 2014 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Premature is never good, feel sorry for the girl. Now read the rest Winston. I read it all, my point still stands. You can increase DR with heals, but DR without heals is meaningless in pvp. As the title states, bring the self heals back. This spec is bad in pvp, and its virtually extinct, thanks to these changes. Edited September 11, 2014 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I read it all, my point still stands. You can increase DR with heals, but DR without heals is meaningless in pvp. As the title states, bring the self heals back. This spec is bad in pvp, and its virtually extinct, thanks to these changes. It was extinct due to total inadequacy in Arenas. Not even heals could make it viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) It was extinct due to total inadequacy in Arenas. Not even heals could make it viable. Prior to December it was a viable spec in regs and arenas, and played quite often. By February it was a dead spec in any form of pvp. After the changes, people completely dropped it in pvp...and if what you say were true, that would have been the case prior to the patch in December. But it was not. I used to play mine regularly, as a matter of fact, all the way up to that patch. Good luck finding a tank spec shadow/assassin in any pvp match now. I've seen one full tank spec assassin in a pvp match since around March. Edited September 11, 2014 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos_KidSWTOR Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 It was extinct due to total inadequacy in Arenas. Not even heals could make it viable. Mainly because your now forced to ALWAYS finish a full Channel of TKT/FL to keep your stacks of the stupidly retarded Shadow Protection/Dark Protection. I never liked the change, i was tanking JUST FINE without the change, then when it came in, my rotation felt really off and it felt way too strict, it was like i had no room to Discharge, Thrash, Maul, Spike, or even taunt! we need either of these few options. Option A: Revert the stupid Dark Protection "buff" and give us Dark Charge self heals and Harnessed Darkness Self heals back. It was unique and different from each of the other tanks, ATM i feel like a gimped Jugg Tank when i play my Sin as a tank... Option B: Reduce the cast time of Force Lightning to 1.5s. If we must keep the Dark Protection stacks, at LEAST give us a lower cast time on FL when at 3 Stacks of HD. Option C: Increase the duration of Dark Protection to 18 seconds. This gives us PLENTY of breathing room to do anything. Option D: Allow Chain Shock to proc Harnessed Darkness. This would do essentially the same thing, AND make our force less tight. Option E: Give CC immunity when at 3 stack HD during FL. This would be IMO the best option, ive had PLENTY of times in PvE and PvP where i'm interrupted in doing my MAIN DEFENCE BUFF and i just get melted because i dont have 4 stack of Dark Protection. no other Tank has this issue, Juggs cant get stunned when doing Crushing Blow (no cast time), and PT's cant get stunned when doing Heat Blast (no cast time)! Why can Sin's get stunned when doing FL? (note: they CAN get stunned, but even if they are stunned while in the animation they still get the full effect of the buff) Option F: When you are CC'd or knocked back during Force Lightning, you do not lose your stacks of Harnessed Darkness. My personal option choices would be A and B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Prior to December it was a viable spec in regs and arenas, and played quite often. By February it was a dead spec in any form of pvp. After the changes, people completely dropped it in pvp...and if what you say were true, that would have been the case prior to the patch in December. But it was not. I used to play mine regularly, as a matter of fact, all the way up to that patch. Good luck finding a tank spec shadow/assassin in any pvp match now. I've seen one full tank spec assassin in a pvp match since around March. Will have to disagree. No pvper agreed with that change - personally disagreed in several threads, but it was already problematic. It was one of the primary targets in Arenas already. The DR is laughable, the dcds have no application in Arenas, the armor is ~7000k. It is better to protect itself than others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Option C: Increase the duration of Dark Protection to 18 seconds. This gives us PLENTY of breathing room to do anything. That was the initial suggestion in PTS but *some* disagreed. Edited September 11, 2014 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Will have to disagree. No pvper agreed with that change - personally disagreed in several threads, but it was already problematic. It was one of the primary targets in Arenas already. The DR is laughable, the dcds have no application in Arenas, the armor is ~7000k. It is better to protect itself than others! Yea, I can agree it had some issues, but what they did completely killed it in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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