Levelled up gunships - nerf time!

[Vis-Tecum]

I don't understand how people can say just clean them out first. So you can't respawn as a gunship? .

 

I would be so for this, roll a gunship and die you have to now use a scout or striker for the good gunships it wouldn't matter they don't die but for the fodder gunships... try again and this time you actually have to learn to fly

 

and Im sure they will still get at least 2- 3 kills before their first death

[paowee]

tldr

 

checking your other posts and they all seem to be complaining about everything -_-. BW can't please everyone.

Edited December 8, 2013 by paowee

[Vis-Tecum]

checking your other posts and they all seem to be complaining about everything -_-. BW can't please everyone.

 

good god lighten up and take a joke...

 

complaining about everything? funny a gunship pilot who thinks that gunships are everything

 

but yeah don't read or respond to the post just ignore please

[paowee]

This is what happens when u have half your team made up of gunships http://imgur.com/Yap88Ht

 

its an 8 matchup. I counted 5 gunships right before we spawned. We got severely owned and 3 capped by their team which had no gunships. just a mix of flashfires, novadives and starguards.

 

Team strategy > all.

Edited December 8, 2013 by paowee

[JimG]

Any decent gunship player that has a high levelled ship will check his scanner constantly between shots to see if any enemy in range, if there is high tail It out of there.

If you can't run down a gunship in a strike fighter or scout ship, then you've got bigger problems to worry about. Gunships are pretty easy pickings. Take note of the opponents who are in gunships from the start list. Don't just sit in space in a stationary position and you won't get picked off. Don't fly in a straight line towards gunships if you're trying to close the gap and they are facing you. Once you get them on the run, don't let up. Their speed and evasion ability is crap.

[Applicator]

I just keep one ship kitted out for hunting GS in case they give me the ships. Whack on some buffed rockets and away you go, they are dead before they know they are getting hit

[Kombatikon]

There are a quite a few players who have high levelled up gunships now and it is getting ridiculous how overpowered they are.

 

On my server we are seeing these gunships getting 20-30 kills a match as they are able to 1 shot both scouts and fighters. To make it worse they can 1 shot without causing an alert noise (lock on).

 

To press 1 button and I win is ruining what could be great dog fights, sort it out!

 

Go level up your ships :/

[Foxtrotmikelima]

I dont understand why they thought a Sniper in Space would be a good idea for PvP. This isnt a FPS and that makes this difficult to counter.

 

Arguing..Take them out in the beginning...etc etc is just ignoring the issue the OP is bringing up. There is no hard counter to their behavior like there is in other games with Sniper classes. They will still respawn and go right back to it. The heart of the matter is in the fact that in a Space PvP like this. Theres no need for a 'Gunship Sniper'. If anything the Gunship should of been a Tank rolling the opposition out of hard spots on the map where there were large build up of players. In the current build the Snipers are going to win the battle in the long run because they easily shoot and move before anyone has a chance to counter.

[Lenlo]

1)Gunship jockeys think they are role playing hull-down tanks... so teach them otherwise.

 

I find that a missile lock makes them panic and make mistakes (like speeding into an asteroid).

[renegadeimp]

Seriously?

 

Look.. flush out the Gunships early. They are by definition mostly lazy snipers who can and will make mistakes. Surely you can develop some team tactics for dealing with lazy snipers can't you? A couple of good players in Scouts can unmask these for counter Gunship fire.

 

On the other hand.. if you are basically solo roguing in GS... you deserve to get some Gunship treatment IMO.

 

Dont lump all of us in the same block. I normally dogfight in my gunship as well as snipe. I come out with 50+ accurancy 20+ kills 1-2 deaths and 18 assists, not to mention 11+ medals pretty much every match.

 

As a side note, the lazy snipers are the EASIEST ones to kill.

 

 

To another poster, if you are undergeared, then of course everyone else will look OP to you. The reason myself and others with geared out ships are in your low end matches is because the GS population is small and there arent any xross server queues so we can actually be matched against similar opponents. Until jan and feb comes, you are just going to have to deal with it and find new tactics.

[Kamikazeelotro]

If you don't even understand how you can equip your ships to counter a gunship, no wonder you don't like going up against them.

 

I ask you the question again. How do you get your fighter/scout to have 35,000 range sensors? Obviously I don't understand can you explain how this is achieved?

 

My understanding as well as what others have posted is the maximum range is as follows (taken from this thread) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=698787

 

Sensor Range

Base Sensor range:

Strike Fighter : 15km

Basic Scout: 17,5km

Gunship : 15km

 

Companion: Can add 2,5km to each of those ships

Component: Scout and Gunship can equip a Range Sensor Component, which, fully upgraded, adds 5km to the range

 

The maximal achievable range sensors are:

Strike Fighter: 17,5km

Scout: 25km

Gunship: 22.5km

 

Sensor Dampening

 

Each ship as 0 dampening as a base

Scout and Gunship can install a component, which, fully upgraded, will give you 7.5km of sensor dampening

Companion (silent running): Can add 4km of sensor dampening range.

 

Maximal achievable sensor dampening range:

Strike fighter: 4k

Gunship and Basic Scout: 11.5km

 

SO...

A scout with maxed range 25k against a gunship with 11.5k dampening means the scout and see the gunship at 13.5k range or less. (25-11.5). The problem is gunships can fire at 15k range so they can kill you in one shot without you even knowing they were there.

 

For a fighter it even worse as they have less max sensor range than a scout.

 

I'm trying to show this isn't about a skilled scout or learning tactics, the snipe element of gunship is OP in high levelled gunships. We are not talking about lazy snipers who are easy to kill.

 

Railgun range should be reduced or the dps reduced as its very unbalanced. Every match I play gunships have at 2 or 3 times more kills than other ships yet have less medals.

[renegadeimp]

I ask you the question again. How do you get your fighter/scout to have 35,000 range sensors? Obviously I don't understand can you explain how this is achieved?

 

My understanding as well as what others have posted is the maximum range is as follows (taken from this thread) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=698787

 

Sensor Range

Base Sensor range:

Strike Fighter : 15km

Basic Scout: 17,5km

Gunship : 15km

 

Companion: Can add 2,5km to each of those ships

Component: Scout and Gunship can equip a Range Sensor Component, which, fully upgraded, adds 5km to the range

 

The maximal achievable range sensors are:

Strike Fighter: 17,5km

Scout: 25km

Gunship: 22.5km

 

Sensor Dampening

 

Each ship as 0 dampening as a base

Scout and Gunship can install a component, which, fully upgraded, will give you 7.5km of sensor dampening

Companion (silent running): Can add 4km of sensor dampening range.

 

Maximal achievable sensor dampening range:

Strike fighter: 4k

Gunship and Basic Scout: 11.5km

 

SO...

A scout with maxed range 25k against a gunship with 11.5k dampening means the scout and see the gunship at 13.5k range or less. (25-11.5). The problem is gunships can fire at 15k range so they can kill you in one shot without you even knowing they were there.

 

For a fighter it even worse as they have less max sensor range than a scout.

 

I'm trying to show this isn't about a skilled scout or learning tactics, the snipe element of gunship is OP in high levelled gunships. We are not talking about lazy snipers who are easy to kill.

 

Railgun range should be reduced or the dps reduced as its very unbalanced. Every match I play gunships have at 2 or 3 times more kills than other ships yet have less medals.

 

Big difference between 35k sensors and 15k hit range. Plus the fact that even fully kitted out and skilled, gunships are a very easy kill, unless the player is brilliant at controlling and predicting the next move.

 

The problem with a lot, if not the vast majority of striker and scout players, is that they think everything should be an easy kill for them. Play a gunship. Its not as easy as it looks as you have to wait for the target to be pretty much stationary or flying at such a low speed, they would be killed by any ship easily.

 

Only top GS pilots have the ability to predict a lead on shot on a fast moving target.

[Sangrar]

Railgun range should be reduced or the dps reduced as its very unbalanced. Every match I play gunships have at 2 or 3 times more kills than other ships yet have less medals.

 

The whole point of a gunship that we were all sold on was damage from a distance. Nerfing range would ruin gunship. As for damage, of course they are supposed to have high dps capabilities, if they had the same damage capability as the other two ships then it would just be small damage from a distance, it would ruin it completely. Contrary to popular belief, nerfing something to extinction is never a good idea. We have seen in ground pvp a lot of idiots mindlessly shouting for nerfs at anything they don't want to deal with, and Bioware responded with unnecessarily extreme nerfs (the assault skill tree nerf, the commando healing nerf ring any bells) ruining several specs and making classes the laughing stocks of the fleet (seriously a while back on my commando healer I joined a premade group to que for the group ranked que as heals, they found out I was a commando, laughed, and kicked me telling me they wanted an "actual healer" by which they meant a scoundrel). Lastly, the whole leaderboard at the end of each match is not an effective way to measure skill of people, you can't judge gunships as best off of that alone, as it is they are not always at the top of the leaderboards like you said, I have seen guys I know were in scouts and strike fighters who have been at the top of the leaderboards before with more medals, gunships aren't always on top like you said. In conclusion, nerfing damage and range are horrible ideas, at the most nerf the armor or something but that's it, I mean really, gunships were designed for ranged damage, take away one or the other, its no longer natural, its no longer useful, and quite frankly all the subscribers who played on the gunship will feel s***ed. Don't repeat the mistakes of early game by demanding nerfs to ruin something just to make your life easier, it benefits no one in the end as it would really throw everything out of balance causing in the end only one ship to be useful, if they nerf gunships, who is to stop someone from complaining about scouts speed and having that nerfed, I have already seen threads demanding scout nerfs, even saw one for nerfing strike fighters, what would happen then! It would ruin this part of the game and that is what I am afraid of, nerf survivability if you have to for gunships, but don't ruin the very point of the gunships existence to begin with, it would destroy it and effectively begin the end for GS.

[Chrisweaver]

I'm my experience if I see my teammates getting 1 shot by gunships I will fly around the map on my scout looking for the gunships. The scout with the engine power upgraded up can boost from base A to base C with no hassle. This is more than enough power to catch up to a gunship as he is focusing down teammates. Plus when that gunship is focusing on an enemy he will have no idea you are about to fire some armor piercing missiles at him from behind

[Foambreaker]

Sitting still, waiting to get one shotted.. is rookie tactics. But people do it. If you assume there are Gunships out there waiting to one shot the predictable target.. then you will learn to be unpredictable.

 

Gunships rely on people being turtles. Don't be a turtle. Be the rabbit.

 

Don't even post if you are going to make **** up, GS can and do hit moving targets all the time.

[CTFoxhound]

have i been shot down by a gunship? sure but just because doesn't mean they need nerfing. Honestly they are sitting ducks as when I play one of the main things I do is scope them out. I cycle targets till I find gunships and usually they are just sitting idle somewhere. I get behind them and as soon as they are in range I unload everything I got.

[Itkovian]

Personally, I think at this time the state of gunships is inversely proportional to how many players in a match are willing and able to hunt down the enemy's gunships.

 

When gunships are left alone they will absolutely dominate the match, whereas if your team has 2 or 3 good gunship hunters (Crusaaaaaaaaaade!), they tend to be a lot more balanced (they a few shots in, and then they must scamper and most likely die).

 

As such, this makes it very difficult to determine how balanced they are. Ultimately I think only the devs can tell, by looking at their metrics.

 

That said, on PTS they definitely WERE broken, because of the messed up way dampening was implemented and bugs associated with it (this is no doubt where dampening is currently limited to 15k).

[renegadeimp]

Personally, I think at this time the state of gunships is inversely proportional to how many players in a match are willing and able to hunt down the enemy's gunships.

 

When gunships are left alone they will absolutely dominate the match, whereas if your team has 2 or 3 good gunship hunters (Crusaaaaaaaaaade!), they tend to be a lot more balanced (they a few shots in, and then they must scamper and most likely die).

 

As such, this makes it very difficult to determine how balanced they are. Ultimately I think only the devs can tell, by looking at their metrics.

 

That said, on PTS they definitely WERE broken, because of the messed up way dampening was implemented and bugs associated with it (this is no doubt where dampening is currently limited to 15k).

 

Dampening isnt limited to 15k Max attack range is.

[Andryah]

Personally, I think at this time the state of gunships is inversely proportional to how many players in a match are willing and able to hunt down the enemy's gunships.

 

When gunships are left alone they will absolutely dominate the match, whereas if your team has 2 or 3 good gunship hunters (Crusaaaaaaaaaade!), they tend to be a lot more balanced (they a few shots in, and then they must scamper and most likely die).

 

/Agree with this assessment.

 

It's simply too early to even be entertaining nerf discussions about any element in GS. The broader player base needs time to settle in. And when it does.. you are more likely to find that Gunships fall out of favor with any player willing and wanting to maneuver in GS and be successful. It is after all a maneuver based sub-game.

[Andryah]

Don't even post if you are going to make **** up, GS can and do hit moving targets all the time.

 

Don't be absurd. You know exactly what I am referring to. Gunships are extremely vulnerable to fast movers moving in small teams. And good Gunship pilots know they are vulnerable and they can in fact be tricked into making mistakes by a small team of fast movers.

 

Stop pretending GS is rogue vs rogue.

 

As far as I am concerned.. they got the rock/paper/scissors implemented pretty well in GS. It's players not wanting embrace and apply this and who refuse to play to their potential and in teamwork that is the real issue. People are eventually going to figure out that small squadron team play is the way you play GS successfully, and tactics actually means something. GS is not static dueling in space.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Andryah

[Sheike]

Don't even post if you are going to make **** up, GS can and do hit moving targets all the time.

 

This...It doesn't matter if you think you're going to try to be fast or whatever nonsense. If they see you, that's it, you can hide behind something, but you are NOT going to zip around so much that you dodge that BS shoop the whoop garbage every time, dude talks about it as though it's a sure-fire formula.

[Andryah]

This...It doesn't matter if you think you're going to try to be fast or whatever nonsense. If they see you, that's it, you can hide behind something, but you are NOT going to zip around so much that you dodge that BS shoop the whoop garbage every time, dude talks about it as though it's a sure-fire formula.

 

The concept of team work and tactics is lost on folks like yourself, IMO.

 

You guys have to stop thinking of GS in solo terms. One would think that decades of aerial combat simulators would have instilled this in the player. But I guess a decade of WoWified MMO "all for me" play style is interfering with clarity of thinking here.

 

You vs the Gunship, or you vs <any ship> is a recipe for disaster in GS. TEAMWORK+TACTICS = TEAM success.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Andryah

[Brewski]

I love hunting gunships in my scout. Do I die on the approach sometimes? Yes, if they see me coming I can definitely be killed. That said, I'm usually pretty good at coming at them from behind, and once I get in close, they will be dead, because they can't shake me, can't kill me at close range, and I can outlast them when it comes to turning and maneuvering.

 

The only way they survive is if they have a buddy covering for them, and coordinated teams of players will dominate any match against a PUG whether they are flying Gunships or not.

 

They are balanced just fine, you just need to give people time to learn to counter them. As was mentioned earlier, if you get two or three decent GS hunting scouts flying in a match they can pretty much negate the effect of gunships, and people can go back to claiming scouts are OP again. Like all well balanced systems, you know you're doing okay when everyone think their preferred play style is under powered, and their counter is OP...

 

"Rock thinks Scissors is okay, but Paper needs a nerf."

[renegadeimp]

it;s been said before and i'll say it again. GS is very well balanced.

 

The only problem is ground pvpers who are used to rolling FOTM classes, coming into GS thinking they should have the most powerful ship instantly and if they get killed or are too brain dead to think of a strategy to defeat an opponent, then the other ship is OP.

 

My GS for example is very well kitted out and specced. Sadly, because the population for GS isnt huge right now, im thrown in with lower geared players purely to make up the numbers so a match can get started. This isnt fair at all on the other players, but until Jan 14th comes, or more subs stop crying like babies and start playing, theres very little that can be done.

 

One thing i will say though, if you see me in a striker or scout, im a very easy kill because i suck at those ships

Edited December 8, 2013 by renegadeimp

[JediZork]

I'm an average player who plays all of the ships. They're all fun and they're all good for something. I personally find Scouts to be the hardest to deal with since I'm still working on my dogfighting. When I'm playing my gunship, I get barked at all the time for being a lazy sniper. That's cool, just let me get in your head and then I'll know I've done my job by taking you out of the fight entirely. But whatever you do, don't get tactical. Don't approach from an angle. And please, PLEASE don't use hard cover to keep me from getting a clear shot while you're on approach. I really hate that.

 

My Flashfire's my favorite ship. When a match starts, I look at the other team to see who has selected a Gunship, because then I know where dinner is. I will always start by going for a quick cap on a point while flying around it and making sure to use it as hard cover from locks and Gunships. After that, it's time to get dinner. There are a few very likely places where Gunships like to set up. I go there first. Usually, they're fireworks at that point. Sometimes I run into one that's either well-supported or a much better player than me. I'll give chase anyway. Even if I don't get my kill, I've taken that gun out of the match until one of us is gone. I'm in a Scout, disruption is what I do.

 

Seriously, though. The best thing you do to learn the weaknesses of a ship is to just play it for a while. Figure out what you like to have happen when you're in that ship. Figure out what causes you to get spaced. Once you know how other folks are beating you, apply the same thing. Know your enemy. Also - get used to the fact that there's a decent chance someone else on the server is better than you at something. I'm working on stuff and learning, and I usually put up good numbers, but I know darn well where I really am in the pecking order and I accept that other folks have more talent, skill and playtime. When I get too annoyed (hasn't happened yet in GS) I move on and do other things!