Are assassins terrible ?

[Seradim]

There's nothing broken about los-ing someone who's about to do something unsavory to you. It's called being aware and making the smart play.

 

I will agree about the CD issue though. I don't think an ability should go on CD if it doesn't complete, though I haven't seen it be an issue in my experience so far.

[PacoX]

People don't seem to understand the class.

 

As Tanks, they are fine.

 

As dps they are pretty damn good.

 

DPS classes fall under several types i.e. sustained, burst, dot.

 

The assassin can spec burst or dot for dps and excel at it. People want to compare sin abilites to other classes but you can't because of they way they work. Look at it this way, the sin only have one move, Thrash/Volatic strike that charges super moves. On their own, the super moves, but when charged they dump out a huge amount of damage, and I mean huge. The role of sin dps is to dump a load of damage so sustained dps can won't be sitting around all day. A sin isn't meant to hack away at a target all day, thats what a BH or SW does.

 

Same in pvp but a sin's toolset > damage. Your tools as a sin allows you control a fight and single out any opponent. A sin is able to kill anyone with a preemptive strike or cripple them to the point that they are useless. Our skill set allows us to control the fight, the enemy must fight or die, if they get the upperhand then we can reset the fight. Forget overall damage because it doesn't matter. A sin is effective in all WZs. The bane of Voidstar, great defenders in Civil War and awesome support/ballcarriers in Huttball.

 

Sins don't suck at all, people can't play them. And the class really opens up late game.

[Malysoun]

It seems only slightly better once I got the healing companion. On Hoth mind you, at level 37.

 

This seems to be the latest that the so-called tank classes get a healer companion.

 

BH starts with theirs at 8.

SW and JK pick their's up at the end of Balmorra. (Low to mid 20s)

JC gets theirs on Nar Shaddaa. (Low to mid 20s)

Trooper picks theirs up on Taris? (Low 30s? I Got Ashara at 33 with SI due to speeding through the class quest), I imagine it's less of a problem for them however since if they're mirrors of the BH they have passive mitigation which really helps.

 

Dark Ward often drops too fast, the heal from lightning is negligible, can't craft decent shields, I keep my orange gear as up to date as possible, I've got 9.6k health, 4.2k-ish armor. Prior to the healer companion, I could barely kill elites one level lower even using channel the force, medpacs, stuns. Either I'm getting a lot of low shield dice rolls, or there is something wrong with the mitigation.

[sanctified]

It seems only slightly better once I got the healing companion. On Hoth mind you, at level 37.

 

This seems to be the latest that the so-called tank classes get a healer companion.

 

BH starts with theirs at 8.

SW and JK pick their's up at the end of Balmorra. (Low to mid 20s)

JC gets theirs on Nar Shaddaa. (Low to mid 20s)

Trooper picks theirs up on Taris? (Low 30s? I Got Ashara at 33 with SI due to speeding through the class quest), I imagine it's less of a problem for them however since if they're mirrors of the BH they have passive mitigation which really helps.

 

Dark Ward often drops too fast, the heal from lightning is negligible, can't craft decent shields, I keep my orange gear as up to date as possible, I've got 9.6k health, 4.2k-ish armor. Prior to the healer companion, I could barely kill elites one level lower even using channel the force, medpacs, stuns. Either I'm getting a lot of low shield dice rolls, or there is something wrong with the mitigation.

 

Are you mind trapping elite, killing their support, and using Andronikus, or are you charging in spamming discharge and wither? Assassins who take the time to control their fights never take the kind of beating you described. Are you using Andy to kite down tougher mobs, or are you standing around getting punched in the face like a mook?

[illgot]

The Assassin isn't about standing toe to toe with your opponents. The rogue class is never meant to do this. You have to pick your battles and use your cd's to your advantage.

 

If you're more of a smash buttons and watch things die kind of guy, I'd suggest a Vengeance Jugg or a Marauder.

 

you can do the same with the Sniper/Operative, get better armor and constantly attack via range.

[Malysoun]

Are you mind trapping elite, killing their support, and using Andronikus, or are you charging in spamming discharge and wither? Assassins who take the time to control their fights never take the kind of beating you described. Are you using Andy to kite down tougher mobs, or are you standing around getting punched in the face like a mook?

 

Not high enough for wither yet.

I always kill the support mooks first if there are any.

Companion does not seem to matter as they all tend to run right up to the elite and get stomped.

Discharge is kept up for the damage reducing debuff.

Dark ward is kept up as much as possible between cooldowns (as long as some stupid autofire that can't be interrupted or gets missed due to gcd doesn't strip it in less than 2 seconds).

Refreshing lightning and building stacks of the buff as much as possible.

A tank is supposed to stand there and get their face smashed in, that's their job.

Not that it means anything, but I play light and hate most of my companions anyhow.

I just got the healer, and while he was a guest for the one part of the quest on Hoth, I actually survived longer, and then started dieing again for the quest parts he couldn't be brought on.

 

I strongly believe the saying, behind every strong tank is a strong healer. Why does the assassin get theirs so late in game? Poor class design in my opinion. Any class that can tank should have their healer as the second companion at least.

 

Anyone else also notice that not one of the healer companions is a sage/sorc? They're mostly operative types?

 

Maybe things will be tons better now that I actually have a healer, but getting to this point has all but killed my desire to even play this class.

[ShiniShini]

Assassin as a class are fine, the issue stems from when we get talents relative to where you are level wise. It's a little broken, Assassin tanking doesn't really take off until level 20+

 

Despite the AC name being Assassin, you're not really a rogue. That's the operative, Assassins are more like Melee use who a bunch of spells to augment their damage. Once you realize this and start playing like that you'll notice your damage is much better. I run into so many assassins who only use their melee skills and rarely their spells then sit in general saying how much the class sucks.

 

Bottom line: You're not a rogue, stop playing like one. Assassin tanking skills are back loaded unfortunately so you're not going to be very good at tanking until later levels, yes it sucks, but stick with the class and I assure you that you'll love it once you get more talent points and tanking skills.

 

With TOR as a whole you really can't judge any of the classes based on level 10-20 play time. Especially assassins. Whats that old saying? Patience is a virtue.

Edited January 2, 2012 by ShiniShini

[Snyckers]

Yes because its alot more realistic to have an ability hit before any animation right ? i mean when you swing around to slice someone, you hit them at the thought and not at then end of the action.

 

 

Its this pathetic wow mentality to gameplaying that ruins games, might aswell just stand still and spam attacks, why do you need to move, just as the damage according to you needs to be done independent of animation, so the same rule should apply to positional, heck why should we have to go behind, simply pressing the skill and it hits his back is what you're asking for, same ******** with the instant crap independent of animations. No immersion, nothng, just hit that button and presto instant damage, no need to swing the saber, no need to move into position. heck why dont they just get rid of all animations, makes it easier for people like you...... you playing the wrong game mate, go play CS.

 

My apologies for venting, but i'm so tired of idiotic perceptions due to experiences of a lame mmo made for adhd kiddies, the macdonalds of mmos. sad

 

To be honest I get the same "this ability cannot take place" error when I use Maul on a stunned target from behind WELL in range. It's broken and needs to be fixed. I have friends who play Operatives who complain bout the same issue. If we are going to be wet noodles in Combat at least make our abilities work. K thanks bye

 

**Edit - That's also with a FULL force bar.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Snyckers

[fitterbr]

Please believe the OP and stay away from the assassin. No one else needs to be made aware of the awesome powa that is Darkness assassin!

[TeddyBearSniper]

Assassin as a class are fine, the issue stems from when we get talents relative to where you are level wise. It's a little broken, Assassin tanking doesn't really take off until level 20+

 

Despite the AC name being Assassin, you're not really a rogue. That's the operative, Assassins are more like Melee use who a bunch of spells to augment their damage. Once you realize this and start playing like that you'll notice your damage is much better. I run into so many assassins who only use their melee skills and rarely their spells then sit in general saying how much the class sucks.

 

Bottom line: You're not a rogue, stop playing like one. Assassin tanking skills are back loaded unfortunately so you're not going to be very good at tanking until later levels, yes it sucks, but stick with the class and I assure you that you'll love it once you get more talent points and tanking skills.

 

With TOR as a whole you really can't judge any of the classes based on level 10-20 play time. Especially assassins. Whats that old saying? Patience is a virtue.

 

Same thing with madness. You have to lvl up to around 25-30 before you start feeling awesome.

[RevenanceSLC]

Level 50, Valor 60 Assassin. Deception spec: 2/31/8.

 

I've done Eternity Vault, Karragens. Normal Mode and a few hard modes. The damage done in these instances is difficult to gauge but you judging from your priority system you should feel that you are doing well with the tools you have provided. I'm pretty sure our damage output is not that great. As others have suspected our damage is probably very low in comparison to other classes.

 

Our damage may be low right now but I guarantee you will see some buffs to our damage or abilities, possibly even skill trees. I vastly disagree with every person who says, "You gotta pick your battles," or, "our class just wasn't made for damage." These lines of thought, while true, turn people off to wanting to play Assassin or Shadow. You cant pick and choose your targets in raids and in PvP you shouldn't be forced to make that decision either (though I choose to do that quite frequently.)

 

This game is not very melee friendly. Many of the bosses have cleaves or have mechanics that have your tank jumping away frequently so if you are too slow you will take a melee swipe for 10k easy.

 

Hang in there, we may be under powered now but our day will come.

Edited January 7, 2012 by RevenanceSLC

[Kuroii]

well judging from when we did an accidental pull and the boss killed me first adn they had the rest of the dps there with my guild they managed to get the boss to like 13% before enraging and that 13% health apprantley was me cause the next true pull i survived and we downed him even when another of the dps died so basically we can take on a boss if i stay alive arriving on that terms i do a good amount of damage.

 

 

but without combat logs we really cant define where we stand on dps... but assuming our rotation is point on key we can be a very strong dps class.. just have to be more aware.. ive played a rogue all my life in WoW so this class is very familliar to me as deception so i dont feel like we are underpowered but who knows need combat logs to find out ..

 

like i said though deception rotation is very proc and energy based so you have to be aware how to use all your cds and relics to benefit each other to be able to keep up the dps

[Xiaolendrahl]

lol is it horrible of me to hope all the peeps out there who cant figure out how to play an assassin roll something else so my favorite class is a little more scarce. probably not going to happen but i can dream cant i?

 

anyway more on topic, my two cents on the whole topic. im currently building my character as a tankasin madness darkness hybrid, and i started with my madness talents for pve purposes. im level twenty nine and am currently on tatooine. i tend to be very rigid with my builds and dont respec if i dont have to and tend to force the issue so any problems i have are all on me. just wanted to throw out there that with my approach i am currently picking up early tree darkness abilities and am beginning to struggle a little with soloing some heroic stuff. i would probably be fine if i respec to straight darkness (sure would miss my 25 force death field though) i would probably be fine.

 

In short, what im trying to say is there is absolutely nothing wrong with this class. its all a matter of useing your cc, watching cool downs, knowing when abilities proc. ect.

 

P.S. rotations dont really work for this class. i suggest learning how to use a priority list instead. they tend to be more flexible and accomidate this play style very well.

[Astarica]

For PvE this game seems to suffer the early MMORPG design mistakes of assuming melees do 100% more damage than ranged DPS so any challenging encounter must constantly cleave or pbae for absurd damage so that the ranged DPS have an even playing field. Of course, it is questionable whether we even do more DPS than ranged (hard to tell without parser, but certainly doesn't feel like it) even if the enemy has no anti-melee abilities, and they usually do.

 

For PvP, the problem is that people tend to focus on melee first over the guy shooting tracer missile in the back, even though they should kill the guy shooting tracer missile first, not because he is necessarily more powerful, but that a relatively stationary class like Commando cannot operate well under pressure, while melees have no problem operating under pressure. That said, a good team will always try to keep the enemy melee off their guys who need to be left alone, so melees are still high priority targets in PvP no matter what. We probably get focused a bit too much by bad players who just think 'closer guy = easier to kill', but there's definitely a good reason for the enemy to want to kill you first too.

[Therrio]

After playing my assassin both PVP and PVE as tank and DPS to lvl 23 i am re-rolling. He is a waste of time. At lvl 21 i could not solo the Class quest end on Balmora to kill the Collioid king/queen, whatever. Eventually i did after i blew every cooldown, used every trick, med kits, stims, and everything else i could do finally pulled it off, a level late that i should have got off the planet, and i wasnt the only one. I asked around and found that several assassins had severe issues with that class quest. Sorc had it easy, they just sent khem val in, healed him and dpsed long range. PVP they are ok for some things. Maul is just slightly under powered

 

their other melee attacks arent powerful enough, especially when they were ment to be a melee rouge like class. TANK DONT HAVE STEALTH!!! And i do and dont have this issue. Single target i produce fine agg, large groups of targets, not nearly enough aoe to hold them all long enough before they scatter. Other assassin tanks say they have the issue of not producing enough agg early levels to hold enemies, or producing enough damage to produce the threat and end up being stuck in the middle. I have experienced this and over compensate for it by speccing dps and using dark charge.

Maybe this will work itself out at end levels, but for now its quiet the broken class for PVE.

 

Are you kidding me with the not being able to solo the last part of the class quest on Balmora and lvl 21? I rushed my class quest to get the bonus series and soloed the last stage at lvl 18. Yeah I had to use a medpack and khem val died and I used all my cooldowns except my 20min one and no stims.

[vassilbg]

Its funny, because reading through all 14 pages, I find a lot of you having the same issues I have with my lvl 37 IA. I am heavy Deception at the moment and I found it really annoying to have to stop after every pull and heal myself and Khem.

 

I keep Khem VERY well geared and it was just annoying compare to playing my lvl 20 Merc who just steamrolls everything without any downtime.

 

Do I feel its a broken class? Not at all. I honestly never took the time to study the Deception mechanics, or watch for buffs, debuffs, etc. I can say that its most likley the player, and not the class. To be an effective Assassin, you DO need to KNOW your class and know the mechanics.

 

I am respeccing to Darkness tonight to have that "unstoppable" feeling so I'll post here again to tell you all how it goes. I will also pick up Talos probably to get the heals.

[Astarica]

After you get your vehicle, it takes 0.5s to get your companion to full health in anywhere you can summon a vehicle, so don't worry if he takes a beating. I think summoning a vehcile and then exiting it even revives the companion if he died.

[Harwel]

For PvE this game seems to suffer the early MMORPG design mistakes of assuming melees do 100% more damage than ranged DPS so any challenging encounter must constantly cleave or pbae for absurd damage so that the ranged DPS have an even playing field. Of course, it is questionable whether we even do more DPS than ranged (hard to tell without parser, but certainly doesn't feel like it) even if the enemy has no anti-melee abilities, and they usually do.

 

... and what's really funny about that is that there are only 3 ranged classes in the game (Sniper/GS, Merc/Commando, Sorc/Sage). Everyone else is basically 4-10m on most of their core abilities.

[-HaLs-]

Yes because its alot more realistic to have an ability hit before any animation right ? i mean when you swing around to slice someone, you hit them at the thought and not at then end of the action.

 

 

Its this pathetic wow mentality to gameplaying that ruins games, might aswell just stand still and spam attacks, why do you need to move, just as the damage according to you needs to be done independent of animation, so the same rule should apply to positional, heck why should we have to go behind, simply pressing the skill and it hits his back is what you're asking for, same ******** with the instant crap independent of animations. No immersion, nothng, just hit that button and presto instant damage, no need to swing the saber, no need to move into position. heck why dont they just get rid of all animations, makes it easier for people like you...... you playing the wrong game mate, go play CS.

 

My apologies for venting, but i'm so tired of idiotic perceptions due to experiences of a lame mmo made for adhd kiddies, the macdonalds of mmos. sad

 

I don't think you realized what you were saying. To sum up the first part of your post, i take it as something along the lines of "damage shouldn't be applied UNTIL the casting animation is done." Well, that's kind of a problem in this game. Basically, the animations are taking longer than the spell cast itself, so you have moves that take longer to land because they have a drawn-out attack animation.

 

I love how you quote some "wow mentality" that's supposedly ruining games, when in fact SWTOR is filled and influenced by wow greatly. The macdonalds of mmos you're talking about ARE games like wow and swtor. I'm sorry but you can't have mass appeal to all audiences without "macdonalizing" it. The reason swtor is so popular is because it manages to appeal to all types of players.

 

Lastly, I love the call out about the "...idiotic perceptions...of adhd kiddies." It's hard to take comments like these seriously when you can't even write at standard high school levels.

 

tldr; sorry but criticism isn't a bad thing. Games don't evolve and improve without constructive criticism. "Just leave it how it is" mindsets only ensure the future failing of this game.

[Spigotwelder]

15 pages of pebkac

[Hypernetic]

Assassins seem to have a much higher skill cap than other ACs. So if you consider any class that can't be face rolled to victory "terrible" than yeah sure, they are terrible.

[Dominickz]

Well, seeing as there are buttloads of Assassins EVERYWHERE, I can only assume they aren't so terrible as you make them out to be.

 

It's by far the most common class I see on a daily basis.

 

the problem with this is everyone made one to be like darth maul.

 

assassins in this game are like the worthless mutts that no one really wants anything to do with. sad but true

 

its more a matter of x class can do my job better and there is no payoff to being an assassin which to people who hate to level alts its very frustrating since the obvious troll answer would be to re-roll but the quality of life of an assassin needs to be addressed by bio-ware, as many have said its a gimmick half rogue half caster that has almost no place in serious play

[LilTikiBoy]

Assassins seem to have a much higher skill cap than other ACs. So if you consider any class that can't be face rolled to victory "terrible" than yeah sure, they are terrible.

 

i somewhat disagree, i dont think it has so much to do with the skill cap for assassins being too high. i think it has more to do with so many other ACs having a skill cap thats too low. Operatives do some much burst coming outta stealth they dont have to do much and somebodys dead, Mercs get to just stand there and spam tracer missile, Troopers just grav round people to death, ect...

 

i think once a few of these class get some much needed tweaks that make it so they have to press more then one button over and over to be decent well see ourselves starting to shine a little brighter.

Edited January 13, 2012 by LilTikiBoy

[Hypernetic]

i somewhat disagree, i dont think it has so much to do with the skill cap for assassins being too high. i think it has more to do with so many other ACs having a skill cap thats too low. Operatives do some much burst coming outta stealth they dont have to do much and somebodys dead, Mercs get to just stand there and spam tracer missile, Troopers just grav round people to death, ect...

 

i think once a few of these class get some much needed tweaks that make it so they have to press more then one button over and over to be decent well see ourselves starting to shine a little brighter.

 

That's pretty much exactly what I just said. I didn't say our skill cap was TOO high, just that it's higher than the others.

 

I'm ok with this though. Bads will reroll and the good assassins will continue to rock people. So it's all good IMO.

[Astarica]

i somewhat disagree, i dont think it has so much to do with the skill cap for assassins being too high. i think it has more to do with so many other ACs having a skill cap thats too low. Operatives do some much burst coming outta stealth they dont have to do much and somebodys dead, Mercs get to just stand there and spam tracer missile, Troopers just grav round people to death, ect...

 

i think once a few of these class get some much needed tweaks that make it so they have to press more then one button over and over to be decent well see ourselves starting to shine a little brighter.

 

There's also some really weird itemization issues, like the two piece PvE set bonus for Merc is +15% crit to Tracer Missile, while for us it's +15% crit to Thrash but it requires 4 pieces. Certainly, no one is going to fear the Thrash spam and yet it takes far more effort to get the same bonus compared to Tracer Missile.