Vigilance still weak

[Ren_simp]

So I've been trying out the new changes to vigilance yeah the root is nice

But we still hit like a wet noodle

 

We really need overhead slash to be a reliable crit for 9-10k damage

And the focus cost of plasma brand for the damage it does is pathetic

This spec needs to get away from master strike

[SenatorPalpaTANG]

So I've been trying out the new changes to vigilance yeah the root is nice

But we still hit like a wet noodle

Funny, with the relic changes I'm seeing MS crits in the 10k range pretty regularly. When the stars align and all 3 ticks crit, that's basically unloading ~20k damage into a light-med armor target in 3 seconds.

 

Feels good man.

[Ren_simp]

Funny, with the relic changes I'm seeing MS crits in the 10k range pretty regularly. When the stars align and all 3 ticks crit, that's basically unloading ~20k damage into a light-med armor target in 3 seconds.

 

Feels good man.

 

Yes I've seen high crits

when the stars align once a wz It's not good enough

This spec needs reliable burst from instant attacks like overhead slash

[PoliteAssasin]

Bads still bad.

[Ren_simp]

Bads still bad.

 

Care to elaborate? Or is that all you got why bother even responding

[Pwnboy]

I wouldn't call vengeance a wet noodle. Not by a long shot.

[PoliteAssasin]

Care to elaborate? Or is that all you got why bother even responding

 

Vigilance is one of the best single target DPS specs in game, need I elaborate any further? Only thing I can imagine is that you've loaded your gear with accuracy, or stack strength in which you would hit like a wet noodle. That isn't the fault of the spec however.

[Ren_simp]

Vigilance is one of the best single target DPS specs in game, need I elaborate any further? Only thing I can imagine is that you've loaded your gear with accuracy, or stack strength in which you would hit like a wet noodle. That isn't the fault of the spec however.

 

In pve maybe where your targets stand still

 

full Oberon power/surge why would you use anything else?

 

I've run vigilance long enough to fully realise its pros and cons

And the new ms root doesn't make up for the lack of reliable burst that's essential to successful melee pvp

Classes/specs.

[Puissant]

full Oberon power/surge why would you use anything else?

 

Because you know how to min/max properly to 2018 expertise with more stats and pve gear.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Puissant

[PoliteAssasin]

In pve maybe where your targets stand still

 

full Oberon power/surge why would you use anything else?

 

I've run vigilance long enough to fully realise its pros and cons

And the new ms root doesn't make up for the lack of reliable burst that's essential to successful melee pvp

Classes/specs.

 

Then there's your issue. You need crit. The only melee that should be pure power/surge is rage/focus. But even they can benefit from a moderate amount of crit rating. Veng needs around 22-24% crit to be effective. If you're pure power no wonder you're hitting like a noodle. Invest in a few crit mods or enhancements to get around that range, then put the rest in power/surge. Same for the augs, no might. If you still have issues after that then I'd say its a l2p problem, but you say you've been running the spec for a while so I'll take your word for it.

[Baron_Samedi]

Then there's your issue. You need crit. The only melee that should be pure power/surge is rage/focus. But even they can benefit from a moderate amount of crit rating. Veng needs around 22-24% crit to be effective. If you're pure power no wonder you're hitting like a noodle. Invest in a few crit mods or enhancements to get around that range, then put the rest in power/surge. Same for the augs, no might. If you still have issues after that then I'd say its a l2p problem, but you say you've been running the spec for a while so I'll take your word for it.

 

I am using this system:

http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pvp/jedi-knight/guardian/vigilance/stat-priority

 

Have bout 100% Accu, 25% crit and cca 75% surge. All other augms are in might, to get +6%.

 

Any suggestions about this (I'm asking because I am on Vig for about month and a half now, was offline for over a year and b4 I played focus)?

[PoliteAssasin]

I am using this system:

http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pvp/jedi-knight/guardian/vigilance/stat-priority

 

Have bout 100% Accu, 25% crit and cca 75% surge. All other augms are in might, to get +6%.

 

Any suggestions about this (I'm asking because I am on Vig for about month and a half now, was offline for over a year and b4 I played focus)?

 

As I mentioned in the previous post, get around 22-24% crit, using the mods with 41 or 43 (i forget which) of crit/power stat(depending on if its deft or the crit one). For enhancements, use the ones with high power/surge, or high crit/surge. All of your enhancements should have surge. Once you've reached that crit range, everything goes into power, including your augments which should all be overkill. The 6% increase still isn't enough to justify might over overkill.

[SenatorPalpaTANG]

Once you've reached that crit range, everything goes into power, including your augments which should all be overkill. The 6% increase still isn't enough to justify might over overkill.

Have to disagree with that. With the +6% modifier Vigi gets to strength on top of the 5% from the Consular class buff, strength is superior to power point for point. Normally each point of mainstat gives 0.2 dmg bonus vs 0.23 per point of power, but with those modifiers each point of strength is essentially worth 0.222 bonus damage along with the extra crit.

 

So going full Might augments nets you a little over 1% extra crit while giving almost identical bonus damage thanks to the buffs, which means one less item slot that has to be filled with a crit mod/enhancement.

[Baron_Samedi]

Have to disagree with that. With the +6% modifier Vigi gets to strength on top of the 5% from the Consular class buff, strength is superior to power point for point. Normally each point of mainstat gives 0.2 dmg bonus vs 0.23 per point of power, but with those modifiers each point of strength is essentially worth 0.222 bonus damage along with the extra crit.

 

So going full Might augments nets you a little over 1% extra crit while giving almost identical bonus damage thanks to the buffs, which means one less item slot that has to be filled with a crit mod/enhancement.

 

That was my thinking exactly. Once I studied surge and crit curve, realised that surge goes to ~400 for bout 70-75%. After that it's flat line, if I remember the curves correctly.

 

And I remember reading somebody here who was posting numbers and scientifically proving that it is better for Sents to go POW and for Guards to go STR.

 

BUT - nevertheless - I THANK YOU BOTH for suggestions.

[Helig]

Vigilance is one of the best single target DPS specs in game, need I elaborate any further? Only thing I can imagine is that you've loaded your gear with accuracy, or stack strength in which you would hit like a wet noodle. That isn't the fault of the spec however.

It's not, really - at least from a PvP standpoint. High contact time requirement+RNG isn't exactly a promising design for a melee class. It's either low contact time, or consistency.

 

Also, stop saying nonsense in such an assertive manner. You might sway some innocent newb in the wrong direction. Strength *is* an excellent stat to stack as Vigi/Veng. It's about 0.08 damage per point behind Power (minuscule), yet it's on a separate DR with crit rating, resulting in greater sum of stats for the same stat budget.

 

Based my stat priorities off of theorycrafter math, which included scaling from Str talent and class buffs. Tried several loadouts and haven't noticed significant difference, but Str did perform slightly better, overall. But I do agree that it does need a bit of crit.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Helig

[Baron_Samedi]

It's not, really - at least from a PvP standpoint. High contact time requirement+RNG isn't exactly a promising design for a melee class. It's either low contact time, or consistency.

 

Also, stop saying nonsense in such an assertive manner. You might sway some innocent newb in the wrong direction. Strength *is* an excellent stat to stack as Vigi/Veng. It's about 0.08 damage per point behind Power (minuscule), yet it's on a separate DR with crit rating, resulting in greater sum of stats for the same stat budget.

 

Based my stat priorities off of theorycrafter math, which included scaling from Str talent and class buffs. Tried several loadouts and haven't noticed significant difference, but Str did perform slightly better, overall. But I do agree that it does need a bit of crit.

 

Agreed. Although - would you say the same (Guardian - bad DPS) for PvE?

 

<Official QQ:>

All this problem is because devs messed up Guardian from the beginning. We were,well, OP in wzs.

Saber Throw with 3 stacks of armor + immobilizing Leap + Force Exhaustion for ticking Singularity ( cap was 5, but it was bugged and you could get it to 7) + Sunder Strike as left clicker for additional 2 stacks of armor + Zephyr (NOT Zephyrian slash) + all possible power aug+enhcs+mods + Sweep on 5 sec CD. PLUS no cap on CRIT curve. PLUS no cap on surge curve.

Somebody starts to run? STASIS. AND every tick creates Singularity.

 

Freaking Sweep bombs were called in that time.

 

I remember jumping in 3 sorcs, 2 healers and 1 DPS, on Alderaan, performing that on 1 healer... It critter. From FULL BAR of energy, bout 15k, he was ONE SHOT and other 2 were killed in sec after by team.

 

Ah... good days...

<Official QQ off>

Edited December 5, 2013 by Baron_Samedi

[LordZym]

QQ the scrubs complaining because he can't play his class properly. I'm happy with vigi.

[Helig]

QQ the scrubs complaining because he can't play his class properly. I'm happy with vigi.

Keep killing bad Sorcs, Mercs and DPS Ops in regs to feel good about yourself.

[Alec_Fortescue]

I wouldn't call vengeance a wet noodle. Not by a long shot.

 

Yeah, it's much worse than that.

[TonyDragonflame]

Keep killing bad Sorcs, Mercs and DPS Ops in regs to feel good about yourself.

 

^ this.

Melee frontline class without passive -30% DR from aoe have not any choice to be competitive in pvp.

[Ottoattack]

Then there's your issue. You need crit. The only melee that should be pure power/surge is rage/focus. But even they can benefit from a moderate amount of crit rating. Veng needs around 22-24% crit to be effective. If you're pure power no wonder you're hitting like a noodle. Invest in a few crit mods or enhancements to get around that range, then put the rest in power/surge. Same for the augs, no might. If you still have issues after that then I'd say its a l2p problem, but you say you've been running the spec for a while so I'll take your word for it.

 

You need critic because? You think so? Does the spec have surge bonuses? No. Does critic help procs? No. Power or main stats (the margin of difference is insignificant) and surge net the highest damage. This has already been tested and proven. You don't believe me? Go to class forums as most classes have already went through best load outs and it has been proven since 2.0 that you should get zero critic in gear, unless critic has other benefits aside from face value. Critic straight out lowers your damage output. You disagree? Please present us with the math to support your point. I could care less what you think.

 

Also, how is a spec that is purely white damage, needs to stay in 4 meters, with little tools to stay within 4 meters and rely heavily on 3 sec melee channeling skill one of the best single target specs?! I did not play every single target spec out these, but I play/played MM sniper, arsenal merc, carnage marauder, pyro PT and dec. sin. All these spec will mob the floor with veng in terms of damage output and ability to stay on target.

 

Please people, stop telling us that specs are great based on what you think. Leader boards have less than a dozen juggs/guardians in the top 100 spots, and they either play rage or tank. Veng, outside of fighting solo, is not a strong spec by any means and need a whole lot of work to be competitive.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Ottoattack

[Mikeieveli]

Actually the top Juggs are Vengeance, for they can stance where as smash is more reliant on their stance. Look at Triand on Pot5.

[JediMasterSLC]

You need critic because? You think so? Does the spec have surge bonuses? No. Does critic help procs? No. Power or main stats (the margin of difference is insignificant) and surge net the highest damage. This has already been tested and proven. You don't believe me? Go to class forums as most classes have already went through best load outs and it has been proven since 2.0 that you should get zero critic in gear, unless critic has other benefits aside from face value. Critic straight out lowers your damage output. You disagree? Please present us with the math to support your point. I could care less what you think.

 

Also, how is a spec that is purely white damage, needs to stay in 4 meters, with little tools to stay within 4 meters and rely heavily on 3 sec melee channeling skill one of the best single target specs?! I did not play every single target spec out these, but I play/played MM sniper, arsenal merc, carnage marauder, pyro PT and dec. sin. All these spec will mob the floor with veng in terms of damage output and ability to stay on target.

 

Please people, stop telling us that specs are great based on what you think. Leader boards have less than a dozen juggs/guardians in the top 100 spots, and they either play rage or tank. Veng, outside of fighting solo, is not a strong spec by any means and need a whole lot of work to be competitive.

 

I was about to reply to Polite Assassins post (<3 you bro), but I think yours captures most of what I was going to say. He seems to not give weight to number crunching, and rather decides what is best based on what feels right?...... but yes, veng has no surge talents, and crit rating is just bad, so no reason to get crit rating. Also, did he say getting strength augs was bad? The only spec in the game in which having main stat augs is bad is focus sent. Infil shadow, rage jug, and the other 2 sent specs are debatable.

 

Veng needs surge talents tied in to existing abilities (I clarify because BW decided to make a whole new skill for the ravage root.........), and an extra >= 0.5 sec duration added to unstoppable, to prevent good players from easily ccing them right before last tick of ravage hits.

[Pwnboy]

Since Vengeance/Vigilance needs more surge would it be a mistake to tie that into the new root ability should it ever be added?

 

If so where should it go in so we don't have more options to spend points but still make sense?

[JediMasterSLC]

Since Vengeance/Vigilance needs more surge would it be a mistake to tie that into the new root ability should it ever be added?

 

If so where should it go in so we don't have more options to spend points but still make sense?

 

As long as it doesn't go into the CD reset on exiting combat talent, I'm ok.