2.5 is out. How about those Class Reps!?

[TUXs]

It makes perfect sense.. If you didn't get any changes or a very little, you shouldn't have much if anything to talk about..

 

People that have had their characters drastically changed, and have issues because of it, shouldn't be brushed aside in favor of those that didn't have any changes or very few..

I understand what you're saying, but please try to look at this from the other point of view...it's been SEVEN FREAKING MONTHS. Balance isn't a priority for Bioware, never has been, never will be...they suck at it. All their promises of more frequent updates ALWAYS fail. While you may not be happy with your change, I'm not happy with NO change...especially after the Devs themselves acknowledged the issues with Merc/Commando that I also see. If minimal tweaks take them 7 freaking months, it's your turn to wait imo...I've already waited...I can't keep getting pushed to the back of the line for you. I completely understand your viewpoint on this and I completely sympathize with you, but I'm a customer too. I WANT you happy...but my happiness matters as well.

 

What we NEED to happen is frequent (every 2-weeks tops) small tweaks to 4 classes minimum, not massive freaking revamps, not deletion of skills, not the addition of trees, just minor frequent tweaks.

 

Bioware has a habit of reinventing the wheel with every "balance" update...they need to stop that foolishness...it's unnecessary and wastes time on busy work. It masks or shuffles the issues without ever addressing them. They need to stick to what they have and tweak it to where it works for all...it's not as difficult as they make it. Minor and frequent updates...not revamps.

[ivanhedgehog]

Did you read the patch notes? More than two classes got changes.

 

the changes for sorcs were pvp only and then only minimal. they did nothing to address anything about the classes. come to think of it, 2.5 is a pvp/cartel only release. pretty useless for the other 70% of players.

[Andryah]

I think it's ridiculous to assign priorities at this stage. Class [im]balance was what it was, and BW made some changes, and now class [im]balance is what it is now.

 

Pretty much.

 

But every player has their own favorite class, which is more important then every other class. Add into this a dash of persecution complex with a splash of self-entitlement and you get what you see in this thread every single time there is a gold post about class reps.

 

Dwelling on what changes could (or should) have been made or not made is pointless.

 

Nothing is pointless to complainers. That is the entire premise of complaining. Besides, it's an MMO forum.

 

Play the game as it is now, see how it plays now, and if classes still appear to need rebalancing, start from where the game is now.

 

/Agree.

 

But have you ever tried to take a bone away from a dog?

 

Have you ever dropped a bone between two dogs? The results pretty much echo the effects in every thread along this line of discussion.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Andryah

[Bugattiboy]

But have you ever tried to take a bone away from a dog? .

I do it all the time. Just not with my bare hands. That would be foolish.

[Andryah]

I do it all the time. Just not with my bare hands. That would be foolish.

 

Fair enough. Was that axiomatic.. or learned by experience?

 

Unfortunately, internet bones are much much harder to extract from the MMO canines.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Andryah

[ToMyMa]

Whoa cool down buddy. Mercs/Mandos are OP in the first place - unless your begging for those questions to nerf them, I would quiet down a bit

 

Yeah, they're OP against players that play 1.1 style; AKA not using your damn interrupt. If you think they're OP, take a look at snipers...

[Clogski]

Also, I am going to prioritize classes who did not receive many, or any changes to the front of the top 3 schedule so they can have their questions answered first.

 

 

Before any new class questions are answered, are we going to get any feedback on the Commando/Merc & Scoundrel/Op DPS Brainstorming suggestions? And if anything was passed on to the combat team, can we get a compilation of everything you sent to them?

 

I would really like to see this happen before new questions are put on the table especially for those classes mentioned above. Nothing was done to mercs and mandos since then so wouldnt we just be asking stuff that was already heard before?

Edited December 3, 2013 by Clogski

[JattaGin]

Seriously? Commando healers are far and away the best tank healers. Pair one up with either a Scoundrel or a Sage and you are golden. I would kill to have a reliable Commando healer or two on my raid team.

 

The only PvE healers that have any right to complain are Sages, as they are quite a bit behind both the other two healers.

 

What the h3ck are you talking about? Have you ever played a commando medic yourself?

 

My main is a commando healer for soon 2 years now. I am in a raiding guild. I play all 8 classes and commando is the one that I am by far the best in (when it comes to knowing how to play). I go as far as saying there are probably only very few commando medic players out there in the world who are maybe better in understanding the class than me.

 

I also have a scoundrel healer, a saboteur healer, a sorcerer healer and a sage healer. (Yes, I'm a healer kind of guy, I know.) Compared to my commando, my knowledge of these classes pretty much sucks and all these chars are lesser geared than my medic.

 

But guess what, my results with all other classes are not only slightly, but waaaay better than my medic. I work my ars3 off with my commando but don't even get close to the performance of the other classes.

 

My raiding guild asks me to come along with my lesser geared other healers. They know that I rock with my commando medic and pretty much suck with the others. But they know my results will be better nonetheless.

 

So, from the perspective of all 8 classes and the view of a PvE and PvP player, I know one thing 110% for sure: Commandos urgently need adjustments! I can't believe they didn't add anything in 2.5. If you, Icebergy, really don't see that problem, you might have a perception error.

[Ottoattack]

Hey everyone!

 

As you may remember, after we completed the first round of top 3 from the Class Reps I decided to have the program take a break until 2.5 launched. Well, 2.5 is out now with quite a few class changes, and it will also mark the return of the Class Reps!

 

I will start getting in touch with the Class Reps this week who have yet to submit their top 3. The plan is that we will start submitting top 3s again in January. Reason being, quite a few class changes happened in 2.5 so I want to give everyone a bit of time with those before we start submitting questions. Also, I am going to prioritize classes who did not receive many, or any changes to the front of the top 3 schedule so they can have their questions answered first.

 

I just wanted to give everyone that quick update, let me know if you have any questions.

 

-eric

 

Hello Eric,

 

Even though the first try out of class representatives was bumpy, it did lead to improvements to some classes. I have one major concern, if we (community) are not aware what are the class balances expected in version 2.6, it would be hard to discuss class concerns. For example, pre 2.5 there was a discussion through merc/commando class rep. regarding concerns, and the devs did agree with some points raised, but no changes were made in 2.5. So are they expected in 2.6? That will be important for a successful discussion. Merc/commando is just one example, almost all classes have the same concern.

 

Also, it would nice if responses were on the merc/commando responses level, were the devs responses were thorough, detailed and respectful of the community. We do not want another response like sorc/sage, PT/VG, were "we do not agree and you have a perception problem." Not saying that everything suggested by community or class rep. should be implemented, but we need to have an open dialogue.

 

P.S. if you do not see 12-13 of each specific class in the top leader boards consistently, expect that you have to do some changes. Also, expect the community to refer to them as well, they are in game matrices after all, and it will be very difficult to discredit them.

[Hell_Kaiser_Fett]

P.S. if you do not see 12-13 of each specific class in the top leader boards consistently, expect that you have to do some changes. Also, expect the community to refer to them as well, they are in game matrices after all, and it will be very difficult to discredit them.

 

I'd say at least 5-6 of each specific AC, since there are 16 of them. Otherwise you're suggesting almost 200 people in the top 100 leaderboards. However, I do agree with you about the consistency. My main is a Merc, and there are only 2 in top 100, 6th and 44th place.

[Icebergy]

What the h3ck are you talking about? Have you ever played a commando medic yourself?

 

My main is a commando healer for soon 2 years now. I am in a raiding guild. I play all 8 classes and commando is the one that I am by far the best in (when it comes to knowing how to play). I go as far as saying there are probably only very few commando medic players out there in the world who are maybe better in understanding the class than me.

 

I also have a scoundrel healer, a saboteur healer, a sorcerer healer and a sage healer. (Yes, I'm a healer kind of guy, I know.) Compared to my commando, my knowledge of these classes pretty much sucks and all these chars are lesser geared than my medic.

 

But guess what, my results with all other classes are not only slightly, but waaaay better than my medic. I work my ars3 off with my commando but don't even get close to the performance of the other classes.

 

My raiding guild asks me to come along with my lesser geared other healers. They know that I rock with my commando medic and pretty much suck with the others. But they know my results will be better nonetheless.

 

So, from the perspective of all 8 classes and the view of a PvE and PvP player, I know one thing 110% for sure: Commandos urgently need adjustments! I can't believe they didn't add anything in 2.5. If you, Icebergy, really don't see that problem, you might have a perception error.

 

Well then either you aren't as good at Commando as you think you are or my Sages aren't as good as I think they are (they are long time MMO vets and extremely knowledgeable and skilled players) because we can bring in Commando alt/offspec healers and they easily keep up with and/or surpass our main healer Sages on just about every fight.

[tekhiun]

In PvE, our DPS is fine (heat could use tweaking as well as a group cleanse).

 

But I'm curious, how many Commando healers do you run HM Ops with? I haven't run with a Commando healer since maybe around the time TFB was released.

 

I just did tdp and df with a merc healer, in my group. Imo they are essential in every raid because of the 5% buff to all heals

[MidichIorian]

Whats the point of putting time and effort into three questions when you've already made up your minds and are going to ignore them anyway, just like you did with the class feedback threads and the latest edition of "top 3"? You havent changed a single thing people asked for in the sage/sorc threads so do you honestly think anyone cares or trusts you to change something useful this time around?

 

You could have fixed force management in the healer and madness/balance trees

You could have given us egress as baseline

You could have executed a rollback on electrolute and whirlwind

You could have lowered the force cost on bubble

You could have taken cleanse, which since the latest update is useless anyway, off the GCD

 

etc etc etc....

 

None of those would have made the class OP. But what did you do? You added other sorcs to the list of classes that can make life miserable for you as a sorc. So good job on that. We were clearly OP compared to ourselves. God knows that no other class thinks so.

 

But hey, if you wanted me to join the horde of fotm players on PT hybrids and Ops healers then, mission completed. Even the most dedicated sorc/sage player will break after two years and six leveled sorcs/sages across a couple of servers.

 

Also, I leveled a merc during DEXP and I really feel for the merc/commando healers because that was a disgrace. You'll do fine as long as it's 8 vs 8 and you manage to slip under the radar (I out healed scoupratives in games like that) but in Arena where you have 2-3 people on you at all times it's just sad. Even sage/sorc is better when you don't have a supportive team. It's by far the worst spec I've played out of the ones I've tried, including operative dps. (for PvP and Arena specifically).

Edited December 4, 2013 by MidichIorian

[tekhiun]

Whats the point of putting time and effort into three questions when you've already made up your minds and are going to ignore them anyway, just like you did with the class feedback threads and the latest edition of "top 3"? You havent changed a single thing people asked for in the sage/sorc threads so do you honestly think anyone cares or trusts you to change something useful this time around?

 

You could have fixed force management in the healer and madness/balance trees

You could have given us egress as baseline

You could have executed a rollback on electrolute and whirlwind

You could have lowered the force cost on bubble

You could have taken cleanse, which since the latest update is useless anyway, off the GCD

 

etc etc etc....

 

None of those would have made the class OP. But what did you do? You added other sorcs to the list of classes that can make life miserable for you as a sorc. So good job on that. We were clearly OP compared to ourselves. God knows that no other class thinks so.

 

But hey, if you wanted me to join the horde of fotm players on PT hybrids and Ops healers then, mission completed. Even the most dedicated sorc/sage player will break after two years and six leveled sorcs/sages across a couple of servers.

 

Also, I leveled a merc during DEXP and I really feel for the merc/commando healers because that was a disgrace. You'll do fine as long as it's 8 vs 8 and you manage to slip under the radar (I out healed scoupratives in games like that) but in Arena where you have 2-3 people on you at all times it's just sad. Even sage/sorc is better when you don't have a supportive team. It's by far the worst spec I've played out of the ones I've tried, including operative dps. (for PvP and Arena specifically).

 

The thing is, its gonna take so much time for any real change to be implemented that when they do the fotms will be even more OP and broken than now =). The uncleaseable dot "buff" is really a joke.

 

Make a dps stance for sorcs and mercs that gives a buff 10% buff to damage and disables any healing ability besides the passive ones, so they can be on par with snipers dpswise. I don't need to off heal when doing ops I need to do as much damage as those snipers (inb4 lern2play , I play all 3 acs ) , that not only can outdps any ranged class but also give a 20% damage reduction to the whole raid, without trading it for any sort of dps.

[Nevet]

Whoa cool down buddy. DPS Mercs/Mandos are OP in the first place - unless your begging for those questions to nerf them, I would quiet down a bit

 

Fixed that for you cupcake, healer mercs are still bottom of the pile

[morfius]

 

You could have fixed force management in the healer and madness/balance trees

 

 

Is it sage healing/dps different in PvP, because to see my wife sage healer with no force in end game PvE is something rare and major screw up related?

(At least in PvE force balance is rotation related and never sow issue with it from tank/healer point of view)

[BigDumbViking]

Whoa cool down buddy. Mercs/Mandos are OP in the first place - unless your begging for those questions to nerf them, I would quiet down a bit

 

Obvious, trolll is obvious

[BigDumbViking]

Well then either you aren't as good at Commando as you think you are or my Sages aren't as good as I think they are (they are long time MMO vets and extremely knowledgeable and skilled players) because we can bring in Commando alt/offspec healers and they easily keep up with and/or surpass our main healer Sages on just about every fight.

 

Then your sage is bad... End of story. Equal gear, equal skill... Sage and Op out-heal mercs/Commandos by 15% every time.

 

Now if your Merc is main-healing the tank and the Sorc has the rest of the raid on a typical tank and spank fight, then sure, but if there is any aoe damage, or if both healers are doing similar jobs... Sorc/op out heal mercs every time.

[VitalityPrime]

When and how can the Guardian class select a new class rep...since we don't have one anymore?

[BigDumbViking]

Fixed that for you cupcake, healer mercs are still bottom of the pile

 

 

... and no... dps merc's aren't OP... they are the easiest DPS class of all to shut down because they have no stun immunity, no pushback protection, poor defensive cool-downs, and zero escapability. You sir, are confusing Merc's with PT's.

[Cordarn]

Whoa cool down buddy. Mercs/Mandos are OP in the first place - unless your begging for those questions to nerf them, I would quiet down a bit

 

I agree with Elyons, atleast about the pyrotech in pvp. Its seriously annoying to see a tank class thats pretty hard to kill get second, or highest damage in a warzone.

[Cordarn]

In PvE, our DPS is fine (heat could use tweaking as well as a group cleanse).

 

But I'm curious, how many Commando healers do you run HM Ops with? I haven't run with a Commando healer since maybe around the time TFB was released.

 

This I so agree with, commando/ merc healing seems a bit underpowered.

[Capt_Beers]

Hey everyone!

 

As you may remember, after we completed the first round of top 3 from the Class Reps I decided to have the program take a break until 2.5 launched. Well, 2.5 is out now with quite a few class changes, and it will also mark the return of the Class Reps!

 

I will start getting in touch with the Class Reps this week who have yet to submit their top 3. The plan is that we will start submitting top 3s again in January. Reason being, quite a few class changes happened in 2.5 so I want to give everyone a bit of time with those before we start submitting questions. Also, I am going to prioritize classes who did not receive many, or any changes to the front of the top 3 schedule so they can have their questions answered first.

 

I just wanted to give everyone that quick update, let me know if you have any questions.

 

-eric

 

Eric, come on man. "Quite a few changes" emphasis on few. Not to mention Glinger/snipers and Merc/Mandos had no changes at all, how would the questions change.

 

I am disappoint, Eric.

[Cordarn]

Eric, come on man. "Quite a few changes" emphasis on few. Not to mention Glinger/snipers and Merc/Mandos had no changes at all, how would the questions change.

 

I am disappoint, Eric.

 

Commando/vanguards didn't get any changes either from what I saw in the patch notes.

[TarristerWelm]

Eric, come on man. "Quite a few changes" emphasis on few. Not to mention Glinger/snipers and Merc/Mandos had no changes at all, how would the questions change.

 

I am disappoint, Eric.

 

This exactly. Should we just copy paste the previous questions?