Hardmode queue time!

[JPryde]

Maybe there should be a course with tests and stuff before they're allowed to queue. Now THAT would be a code enhancement worth its time in gold!

Funny thing is... TSW does just that... you bascially accept a challenge as either healer or tank or DD and then you are given a specific task and as long as you fail that, you may not do hardmode flashpoints (called different in TSW).

 

The Tank challenge involves keeping aggro away from a group and using your cooldowns.

The Healer challenge involves keeping an NPC alive, including clearing deadly debuffs.

The DD challenge mostly involves not standing in the fire while still getting your damage at the target.

 

It did however not stop people from taking the healer challenge and then list as DD or vice versa

[TUXs]

Fortunately, Bioware has already addressed this tank shortage. This past weekend they gave you DOUBLE XP and 12 character slots per server. YOU control your own destiny when it comes to tanking. YOU already have the power to eliminate this ridiculous wait time if you're incapable of waiting a reasonable time. YOU are the answer!!! Roll your own tank and be proactive!!!

[naldoran]

When the vendor-bought commendation gear is so terribly unoptimized to the point of not being worth equipping (I'm looking at you, Accuracy / Defense Implant), it isn't even worth running the weekly for ultimate comms, much less queuing beyond that.

 

1. Tanking HM FPs is a bunch of extra work for the tank as compared to other classes.

2. Putting up with poorly behaved DPS, or healers unable to keep me alive in Dread Forged / Underworld gear is terribly frustrating.

3. No worthwhile rewards except the weekly ultimate comms... which can only be used to gear up alts. Once a tank is past the Black Market gear level, which happens pretty quickly, there are no possible gear rewards.

4. I generally get the weekly with guild members anyway, who are similarly geared, making the FP quick & painless. There is no incentive to subject myself to the random GF queue.

 

That's my perspective. Could some of the damage dealers who want their queues to pop in a reasonable time frame give me a good reason why I should go do FPs with random groups on my tank despite the lack of useful reward and potential for frustration?

[Mazikeen]

When is Bioware going to address this? It is silly that a DPS have to sit 30-45min in a queue for a hardmode, and 50% of the time the tank leave the party, and you have to requeue.

 

Roll a tank, group with PuGs for a weeks worth of 55 HMs then get back to me. Tanks exist, we just don't queue for randoms. I personally have 2 level 55 tanks, one healer and 2 DPS.

[Kurin]

I've done exactly one HM FP in the last 6 months, and it was a guild run. They simply aren't needed by a long time end gamer for any reason. I legacy gear to any new end game alt, and well established end game toons simply cannot derive any benefit from doing a HM FP.

 

And if that's my opinion of their usefulness, it's probably the opinion of most other established end game players. And thus, the people doing HM FPs are going to be relatively new. And that means the quality of their gear and skill is going to be lower.

 

That other BIG MMO implemented an incentive for tanks and healers to give them a bonus reward if they queued up at one point (not sure if they still do). I would queue my tank, just for that reason, as you could get vanity pets, and such from a FP. So it is possible for an MMO company to implement mechanics that encourage people to queue.

 

The additional trouble from this MMO,is the 4 person FP versus 5. The statistics for the number of casual dps versus casual tanks simply will never favor short queue times for dps.

[melodylane]

There is so much anger in this thread against DPS players woah. I dont think the OP is having long queue times because he is an awful player I think the problem is the same as every other dps player. There are simply more dps players than tanks or heals. I think of myself as a decejt player and I have 2 heals and 6 dps my que times are at least 30min for those dps on the lower level ones even longer. Its not because I suck its because there are just too many of us out there. When I get on my heals its instant pop it just is what it is. So guys cut the dps players some slack it does get a bit frustrating the guy was just venting no need to call all dps bad players and hence we deserve long wait times. Thats just my two cent.

[Pirana]

why most tanks only do as many FP's a week as they need and usually within all guild groups to cut down on the moron factor.

 

 

Pretty much. I have two tanks and queue only to get the Weekly done on both, assuming no one in the guild needs them.

 

I'm not here to teach anyone how to play the game, there are a plethora of guides at your disposal. I will gladly lead the group, but will not teach them how to play their class. The game is very simple.

 

As mentioned, there are numerous reasons why tanks, including myself, queue so infrequently.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Pirana

[TUXs]

There is so much anger in this thread against DPS players woah.

 

I haven't read the replies, but I know my comment isn't one of any anger - I play 3 DPS specs, so I'm the last player to complain about DPS. My comment is meant to point out that if the OP doesn't like the wait time, he's welcome to roll some tanks or healers of his own. This isn't a problem Bioware needs to address, it's one completely in the hands of the community. Players like the OP need to realize THEY can fix it by rolling the needed classes.

[morfius]

There is so much anger in this thread against DPS players woah. I dont think the OP is having long queue times because he is an awful player I think the problem is the same as every other dps player. There are simply more dps players than tanks or heals. I think of myself as a decejt player and I have 2 heals and 6 dps my que times are at least 30min for those dps on the lower level ones even longer. Its not because I suck its because there are just too many of us out there. When I get on my heals its instant pop it just is what it is. So guys cut the dps players some slack it does get a bit frustrating the guy was just venting no need to call all dps bad players and hence we deserve long wait times. Thats just my two cent.

 

Only way to get around % of players per role is to roll tank/healer and use legacy gear to gear your DPS - BW cannot do anything to level number of players in each role.

Bad players (not pointing you or OP) are simply the reason that lesser part of players with tank/heal chars even do PuG - witch make situation even worst because instead of having 10% chance for queue bump most DPS actually get 1% (numbers are for example).

All this above on top of unique idea that worst possible rewards in this game has to be for least popular role.

[Andryah]

There is so much anger in this thread against DPS players woah.

 

Personally, I'm not angry at DPS players.. I primarily play DPS.

 

But I am also "old-school" DPS.. in that I know my role, I play my role, and I play for the group.. not for me personally.

 

I support the tank (who picks the targets, calls the timing of the group engagement, and is as far as I am concerned the leader). I always keep close to the tanks healer and if necessary will peel agro off of the healer with a DPS dump even if it means I take a dirt nap for it. The tank and the healer must survive.. DPS are expendable (basic wipe avoidance 101, as is playing your role correctly).

 

I have no patience for DPS who care only for themselves, and complain that tanks and healers are not standing in queue at their beck and call for PUG play. Of course I don't PUG either.. I play with guildies and real life friends I actually know, trust, and enjoy playing with.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Andryah

[DarthTHC]

There is so much anger in this thread against DPS players woah. I dont think the OP is having long queue times because he is an awful player I think the problem is the same as every other dps player. There are simply more dps players than tanks or heals. I think of myself as a decejt player and I have 2 heals and 6 dps my que times are at least 30min for those dps on the lower level ones even longer. Its not because I suck its because there are just too many of us out there. When I get on my heals its instant pop it just is what it is. So guys cut the dps players some slack it does get a bit frustrating the guy was just venting no need to call all dps bad players and hence we deserve long wait times. Thats just my two cent.

 

The OP may or may not be a good, skilled, well-behaved, talented damage dealer. Actually, he probably is a good one.

 

However, there are enough poor, atrocious, asocial, intellectually challenged damage dealers that it makes tanks not want to tank with randoms. See my post above for examples of really, really bad DD's, at least one of which seems to happen to me in every other flash point.

 

So while your statement that the OP isn't getting long waits because he is a bad DD is probably accurate, it's equally accurate to say that OP is getting long waits because far too many DD's are horribad.

 

There are solutions, of course:

 

1) DD's frustrated with long queues could roll tanks. This would create more tanks in the game and potentially more to queue. This would also teach DD's to be better DD's - because as a tank every DD screw-up impacts you, you see them more clearly, and you'll stop doing them as DD's.

 

2) DD's can, as a whole, start to suck a whole lot less. Of course, this statement is wasted here because if a DD cares enough to be on the forums, they probably already care enough to not suck and therefore don't suck or at least are willing to listen to instructions during runs.

 

3) We can reduce the number of DD's in a party from 2 to 1. Notice this is the opposite of what some are suggesting. There is a reason for this. If you cut the number of DD's in half, you half the chances of getting a bad DD. If you increase the number of DD's by half, you increase by 50% the chances of getting a bad DD. Since bad DD's are the primary reason tanks don't want to do randoms, reducing the likelihood of bads actually improves the likelihood of getting tanks.

Edited December 2, 2013 by DarthTHC

[Rthen]

The rewards are not up to par and thus tanks don't even bother.

 

As a player that is struggling to gear up 1 level 55 Sniper I can confidently say that after reviewing what can be bought with comms, the hour or so wait between Hardmode runs, and what my stats need to be for me to even think about raiding I may never be able to actually raid.

 

I have only been back a few months so the way I look at it, if my ability to progress is held back, after a reasonable attempt at moving forward, I will likely quit again. This time for good.

 

I don't blame the players and I certainly admit there are many reasons, the biggest one however is the sad fact that if the rewards are not there people will not play. The rewards are minimally viable to get me up to a point where I may be considered as a backup crew member for the team I am trying to join.

 

My estimation is one month out.. 20 hours a week of playing... and I should be minimally viable as a backup. If 2 months go by and I put my time in but have not gotten to where I want to be I'm pretty much done.

 

Surprises me that gear progression has not been thought out better.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Rthen

[tomhjen]

I have a tank char, i play on it daily in hardmodes mostly to help people, i am not maxed on gear, but not far from. I am also leveling a guardian that i am going to have as tank, so please stop the "roll a tank" comments, and there is things BW can do, they can reward tanks and healers more then DPS to make it more tempting to play one. I think it is really bad when DPS good or bad has to wait a hour to get a hardmode pop, and even then it is not set in stone that the tank will even enter because they don't like the FP.

[DarthTHC]

I have a tank char, i play on it daily in hardmodes mostly to help people, i am not maxed on gear, but not far from. I am also leveling a guardian that i am going to have as tank, so please stop the "roll a tank" comments, and there is things BW can do, they can reward tanks and healers more then DPS to make it more tempting to play one. I think it is really bad when DPS good or bad has to wait a hour to get a hardmode pop, and even then it is not set in stone that the tank will even enter because they don't like the FP.

 

Don't you think an instant queue pop is a good reward for rolling a tank, when the alternative is, as you've said, upwards of 30 minutes sometimes for DD's?

[wainot-keel]

Pre-made group with good coordination can even make 55 HM FPs in 61 gear, PuG with it = wipe fest.

 

Not true, at all.

 

RotCH early access. Remember ?

 

People pug those non-stop. At most, people had 61/63. There was Rakata and Columi too. And pugs cleared them, not only guild runs on vent. Ofc, it meant people had to use their defensive cooldowns, CCs (and not break them), stuns to get a 4 sec breather of incoming damage, etc,etc, .......

My very first run on those was Athiss with my jugg tank in campaign gear, with like what, 25k health or so.... Yeah, one cd everytime on those pack of dogs... but doable... I was a pug as every other on the group. All pugs with crap gear.

 

But now, the expectation is to obscenly overgear stuff.

[morfius]

I have a tank char, i play on it daily in hardmodes mostly to help people, i am not maxed on gear, but not far from. I am also leveling a guardian that i am going to have as tank, so please stop the "roll a tank" comments, and there is things BW can do, they can reward tanks and healers more then DPS to make it more tempting to play one. I think it is really bad when DPS good or bad has to wait a hour to get a hardmode pop, and even then it is not set in stone that the tank will even enter because they don't like the FP.

 

How exactly BW could reward tank/healer in a way that no ninja DPS queuing as tank/healer could exploit?

How exactly BW could reward tank/healer in a way pre made group starting GF cannot exploit?

 

It is not just about you, it is about all reading/participating in tread.

It is bad, but it is not BW task to solve.

Nobody nowhere was ever successful in solving political or community issues via technical methods.

[DarthTHC]

Personally, I'm not angry at DPS players.. I primarily play DPS.

 

But I am also "old-school" DPS.. in that I know my role, I play my role, and I play for the group.. not for me personally.

 

I support the tank (who picks the targets, calls the timing of the group engagement, and is as far as I am concerned the leader). I always keep close to the tanks healer and if necessary will peel agro off of the healer with a DPS dump even if it means I take a dirt nap for it. The tank and the healer must survive.. DPS are expendable (basic wipe avoidance 101, as is playing your role correctly).

 

I have no patience for DPS who care only for themselves, and complain that tanks and healers are not standing in queue at their beck and call for PUG play. Of course I don't PUG either.. I play with guildies and real life friends I actually know, trust, and enjoy playing with.

 

I would tank for you any time, Andry-baby. Too bad you're on the wrong server.

Edited December 2, 2013 by DarthTHC

[naldoran]

How exactly BW could reward tank/healer in a way that no ninja DPS queuing as tank/healer could exploit?

How exactly BW could reward tank/healer in a way pre made group starting GF cannot exploit?

1. Only grant the reward upon successful completion of the FP; if they queue as a tank while in DPS spec & DPS gear... they probably won't be able to tank it unless the healer is very good / over-geared. Odds of getting kicked are pretty high if they mess around like that.

 

2. Only grant the rewards for queuing up solo.

[DarthTHC]

1. Only grant the reward upon successful completion of the FP; if they queue as a tank while in DPS spec & DPS gear... they probably won't be able to tank it unless the healer is very good / over-geared. Odds of getting kicked are pretty high if they mess around like that.

 

2. Only grant the rewards for queuing up solo.

 

They would have to get the reward up around a million credits per flashpoint to get me to queue solo as a tank for random hard modes.

 

The better solution is for DD's to stop sucking. If I encountered terribad DD's 5% instead of 50% of the time, I'd queue more.

[Andryah]

there is things BW can do, they can reward tanks and healers more then DPS to make it more tempting to play one.

 

It is the nature of MMO players to game any and every mechanic put in place by devs. There is apparently already an issue with DPS queuing as tanks to bypass the queue. If you put rewards in play for tanks/healers.. it will only make said bad behavior worse.

[morfius]

Not true, at all.

 

RotCH early access. Remember ?

 

People pug those non-stop. At most, people had 61/63. There was Rakata and Columi too. And pugs cleared them, not only guild runs on vent. Ofc, it meant people had to use their defensive cooldowns, CCs (and not break them), stuns to get a 4 sec breather of incoming damage, etc,etc, .......

My very first run on those was Athiss with my jugg tank in campaign gear, with like what, 25k health or so.... Yeah, one cd everytime on those pack of dogs... but doable... I was a pug as every other on the group. All pugs with crap gear.

 

But now, the expectation is to obscenly overgear stuff.

 

Remember and don't want to go back there, even slight mistake = wipe fest.

Random group with low gear and typed communication ...

Thanks but no tanks ... I am not hardcore player.

PuG is not mentioned to be hardcore part of game ... and 66s are not over gearing.

 

On next expansion will just level some alts to get enough mats and credits to craft my main gear ... then start playing with group content.

[Andryah]

The OP may or may not be a good, skilled, well-behaved, talented damage dealer. Actually, he probably is a good one.

 

I am of the opinion that most good DPS roll more with people they know, not strangers. Of course this is a generalization.. and not completely true.

 

But to make my point.... IF a DPS decides to roll with strangers instead of friends (ie: self-formed group), that is their choice to do so.. and they understand (or should understand) the consequences of that choice... longer queue time since there are hordes of less then good DPS clogging up the waiting line. IF a DPS wants short queue times.. play with friend/guild mates... you know.. people you can actually count on.

[Andryah]

I would tank for you any time, Andry-baby. Too bad you're on the wrong server.

 

Hehe.. let me put on my best impression of a self-interested, self-entitled DPS for a moment and retort:

 

Apparently it is YOU that is on the wrong server. Ima have to have Bioware whip you into submission NAO! :p

Edited December 2, 2013 by Andryah

[morfius]

1. Only grant the reward upon successful completion of the FP; if they queue as a tank while in DPS spec & DPS gear... they probably won't be able to tank it unless the healer is very good / over-geared. Odds of getting kicked are pretty high if they mess around like that.

 

2. Only grant the rewards for queuing up solo.

 

1 - it is enough to make live of 3 others worst as they will have to re queue and punish another needed role (assuming one of the tank or healer is in proper spec and gear and we have not 2 moron DPS as tank & healer in same group) with same queue time as overpopulated DPS - no pugs in it then

 

2 - So what - I would not be able to play with my wife/friend/guild & so on... no pugs then

 

Do not try, it is community issue - not technical one.

[Andryah]

it is community issue - not technical one.

 

/Thread right there IMO.